2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions

[Crives]

I have been wanting Rozier since offseason. Might be able to get him for expirings.

You never know man! And that'd be really cool for us to help boost us up a bit competitively too. But in the reports, they're apparently seeking a first for their players: Rozier, McDaniels, and even strangely enough Hayward despite his contract and injury history. But I suppose it's not uncommon to start at your highest value point initially in negotiations in order to try and extract maximum value for a return. I wonder if they'll come down off those initial target goals as it gets closer to the deadline in interest of additional cap flexibility?

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[Ghost of Kleine]

Terry Rozier, Fred VanVleet and Immanuel Quickley.

All of them have a couple things in common... small and scoring PGs.

But two of them are starting PGs with high salary and the other one (Quickley) is a backup PG with some upside. He is under contract for next year getting $4.2M and then he will be a RFA.

Obviously Quickley is the worst of them but he is the youngest and he is a viable candidate for Crowder.

Quickley + expiring filler for Crowder makes some sense and I would be OK with the trade, but he isn’t my favorite trade target.

I think from a cap perspective - Quickley probably makes the most sense. Reddish could be added to make the math work

I don't want anything to do with FVV as he is not signed

Rozier -- Shamet and Saric works cap wise -- and if the suns are taking that contract, they have to take Shamet. Crowder can also go - they will just buy him out either way. If you add Crowder and Payne, could take back Oubre I guess

But what do you do with Paul? Ride out this year and trade him before his option kicks in so the team acquiring him only has a 15.8m cap hit but the Suns have a longer term deal. I don't see him as your first team PG next year. Stretch him out

Only thing is that (if the reports are correct) the Knicks wouldn't include Reddish as they already are in discussions with Milwaukee for a Reddish for Allen swap! Apparently Thibs loves his 3PT shooting/ borderline dirty tough defensive play next to Brunson.

Which really sucks if true because I would've enjoyed seeing Allen and Beverly go against each other with their dirty plays to see who wins taunting the other! Pure theater lol

** But would also be nice to give Beverley back a taste of what he always gives us and everyone else for a change too!

[BobbieL]

I have been wanting Rozier since offseason. Might be able to get him for expirings.

You never know man! And that'd be really cool for us to help boost us up a bit competitively too. But in the reports, they're apparently seeking a first for their players: Rozier, McDaniels, and even strangely enough Hayward despite his contract and injury history. But I suppose it's not uncommon to start at your highest value point initially in negotiations in order to try and extract maximum value for a return. I wonder if they'll come down off those initial target goals as it gets closer to the deadline in interest of additional cap flexibility?

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Oh yes, forgot about that. Suns got Rubio instead.

I prefer him to FVV thats for sure. Hornets would have to take Shamet from a cap perspective I would think as Rozier has close to 70m left and Shamet only has 10.5m next year. Suns could move Shamet and Saric for Rozier and still have Crowder and if need be Payne for another deal. As if you get Rozier, do you need Payne

[Crives]

I have this feeling we are trading Ayton to Toronto.. and recent Poetl news is smokescreen to drive up price

[kennydorglas]

3 FRP for anunoby is kinda crazy.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I have been wanting Rozier since offseason. Might be able to get him for expirings.

You never know man! And that'd be really cool for us to help boost us up a bit competitively too. But in the reports, they're apparently seeking a first for their players: Rozier, McDaniels, and even strangely enough Hayward despite his contract and injury history. But I suppose it's not uncommon to start at your highest value point initially in negotiations in order to try and extract maximum value for a return. I wonder if they'll come down off those initial target goals as it gets closer to the deadline in interest of additional cap flexibility?

I am not sure they will get a first for Hayward - expriings should be enough for them to save the $30m bucks. And his injury history is a concern as I have thought he would have been a nice fit off the bench to score the ball

Lol! Very true man,
What you want and what you end up with are usually two very different things! I thought it was funny they'd be seeking that level of return in a deal for Hayward considering his contract and durability/ injury issues. But I guess you lose nothing in setting the bar high and asking, just in case you might actually get it!

[bwgood77]

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I can't help but feel a sense of affirmation that it was indeed Crowder who handled the situation wrongly as opposed to some fans who blamed Monty/JJ on Crowder souring on the Suns. Promotions/demotions from certain line ups happen all the time and it's part of the business. It's frustrating as hell because Crowder is exactly the kind of vet we could've used this season, even if it means Craig doesn't have to start. To take yourself out of the team because you're not getting the extension or the starting spot is just the adult version of taking the ball and going home.

It was definitely Crowder but I wouldn't have told him we will pay him to stay at home. You can think he could be a disruption to the team but in the end if he wanted to get paid I'd think he'd be at least pro enough to show up if he wasn't going to get paid. He'd still want to pay hard or it would only be more to his own detriment.

[WeekapaugGroove]

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Well I would hope not on the Serge thing. He's cooked and dead money at this point. Both biz and jock are better options.

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[Ghost of Kleine]

I have this feeling we are trading Ayton to Toronto.. and recent Poetl news is smokescreen to drive up price

I suppose anything's possible? But for my part I see it differently in that we're not going to trade him at all this season due to his veto authority, but not only that. Also because we're already thin on depth and severely short on talent. And trading him (unless we have a legitimate backup trade for a quality center lined up) would only further complicate our issues. And with Toronto, they simply are asking absurd value returns for their players that we can't afford! Our front office likely realizes that we're much better off playing Ayton through the rest of the season and letting him recoup his value and then once his veto clause expires, and his value increases again, we'll have more options and better options! I think they'll sit back, play out the season and then make a determination on whether to move Ayton or not this summer based on his market value.

[bwgood77]

Chowder has essentially no value. In a few weeks, he’ll likely be bought out and able to sign on anywhere for the vet minimum. If we had any stones we make his ass sit the yr if no trade….and announce it now. The Dude F-d us. It’s no secret.

As for VanVleet and Rozier, they are going to cost us multiple picks and or contributing players. Then what do you do with CP next yr? Pay him 30 mil??? FreddyV is going to cost close to 30 and ScaryTerry is at 24. They going to be back ups? Or do we have 30mil CP off the bench? Think you trade him next yr?? Or is CP involved a deal yet this yr? (Unlikely unless he wants out too or MattyIsh says trim the fat)

This **** doesn’t make sense and reeks of kicking the can down the road…. Unless something else is in the works. It better be, but then again, I’m leary of who’s painting

My teeter is tottering to bagging this yr, clean house now and do a quick rebuild. Get in the lottery and cross your fingers. That isn’t happening though unless CP finds a suitor. Good luck to us.

I think if we get FVV or Rozier it would cost Ayton. I thought both had sounded like ok gets earlier last week before looking at their #s. Both have terrible efficiency this year (like where Payne was LAST year) and even in their "good" years, they didn't have particularly good efficiency. More like avg.

Then what they want to get paid. I like FVV more but he would cost more in trade and salary I think....article last week said $30-$35 million.

[KLEON]

Wouldn't mind making a small trade for Isaac Okoro.

[KLEON]

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Well I would hope not on the Serge thing. He's cooked and dead money at this point. Both biz and jock are better options.

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He's cooked . Was that intentional?

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Well I would hope not on the Serge thing. He's cooked and dead money at this point. Both biz and jock are better options.

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I hear what you're saying, but he's only really a 1.8 million expiring filler in the deal and a warm body at a position where were thin. So at worst he's not any significant risk. And still he also has better shooting than Biyombo and is better than nothing IF a filler is needed. Personally, I've talked with a bunch of bucks fans on this and my primary interest/ preference would be for Nwora or Beauchamp. But was rebuked fairly quickly by most on those mentions! I would also be very content with Sandro being swapped in for Ibaka honestly as I still really like his potential. They most often countered trying to fleece us with a Crowder for Ingles/ Hill/ Matthews return (within the 6 million gap).

But things might get to the point of a very insignificant and non impactful disappointing return. And we might end up settling for anything rather than a buyout if we're intending to compete apparently.

[BobbieL]

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Well I would hope not on the Serge thing. He's cooked and dead money at this point. Both biz and jock are better options.

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Ibaka only makes sense if adding 2.9m to the deal to make the math work. Otherwise - correct.

As for Ayton - will be good to have him back for the Mavs game

[Saberestar]

You never know man! And that'd be really cool for us to help boost us up a bit competitively too. But in the reports, they're apparently seeking a first for their players: Rozier, McDaniels, and even strangely enough Hayward despite his contract and injury history. But I suppose it's not uncommon to start at your highest value point initially in negotiations in order to try and extract maximum value for a return. I wonder if they'll come down off those initial target goals as it gets closer to the deadline in interest of additional cap flexibility?

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Oh yes, forgot about that. Suns got Rubio instead.

I prefer him to FVV thats for sure. Hornets would have to take Shamet from a cap perspective I would think as Rozier has close to 70m left and Shamet only has 10.5m next year. Suns could move Shamet and Saric for Rozier and still have Crowder and if need be Payne for another deal. As if you get Rozier, do you need Payne

I think that's a very low offer for someone as good as Rozier.

Rozier has clearly positive value, the guy is playing his best basketball in his career and he is in his prime.

I expect the Hornets to ask for at least one FRP, probably two FRPs next to some decent players (expiring or not).

[BobbieL]

Chowder has essentially no value. In a few weeks, he’ll likely be bought out and able to sign on anywhere for the vet minimum. If we had any stones we make his ass sit the yr if no trade….and announce it now. The Dude F-d us. It’s no secret.

As for VanVleet and Rozier, they are going to cost us multiple picks and or contributing players. Then what do you do with CP next yr? Pay him 30 mil??? FreddyV is going to cost close to 30 and ScaryTerry is at 24. They going to be back ups? Or do we have 30mil CP off the bench? Think you trade him next yr?? Or is CP involved a deal yet this yr? (Unlikely unless he wants out too or MattyIsh says trim the fat)

This **** doesn’t make sense and reeks of kicking the can down the road…. Unless something else is in the works. It better be, but then again, I’m leary of who’s painting

My teeter is tottering to bagging this yr, clean house now and do a quick rebuild. Get in the lottery and cross your fingers. That isn’t happening though unless CP finds a suitor. Good luck to us.

I think if we get FVV or Rozier it would cost Ayton. I thought both had sounded like ok gets earlier last week before looking at their #s. Both have terrible efficiency this year (like where Payne was LAST year) and even in their "good" years, they didn't have particularly good efficiency. More like avg.

Then what they want to get paid. I like FVV more but he would cost more in trade and salary I think....article last week said $30-$35 million.

To me, Rozier is worth expirings - not Ayton. Maybe a heavily protected FRP or two 2nds

[Ghost of Kleine]

Chowder has essentially no value. In a few weeks, he’ll likely be bought out and able to sign on anywhere for the vet minimum. If we had any stones we make his ass sit the yr if no trade….and announce it now. The Dude F-d us. It’s no secret.

As for VanVleet and Rozier, they are going to cost us multiple picks and or contributing players. Then what do you do with CP next yr? Pay him 30 mil??? FreddyV is going to cost close to 30 and ScaryTerry is at 24. They going to be back ups? Or do we have 30mil CP off the bench? Think you trade him next yr?? Or is CP involved a deal yet this yr? (Unlikely unless he wants out too or MattyIsh says trim the fat)

This **** doesn’t make sense and reeks of kicking the can down the road…. Unless something else is in the works. It better be, but then again, I’m leary of who’s painting

My teeter is tottering to bagging this yr, clean house now and do a quick rebuild. Get in the lottery and cross your fingers. That isn’t happening though unless CP finds a suitor. Good luck to us.

I think if we get FVV or Rozier it would cost Ayton. I thought both had sounded like ok gets earlier last week before looking at their #s. Both have terrible efficiency this year (like where Payne was LAST year) and even in their "good" years, they didn't have particularly good efficiency. More like avg.

Then what they want to get paid. I like FVV more but he would cost more in trade and salary I think....article last week said $30-$35 million.

Yeah! I wouldn't trade Ayton for either without significant incentives/additional value coming back towards a quality two-way replacement center in a follow up trade. Ayton clearly has more value than either of those players when you consider all the factors involved.

[KLEON]

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Well I would hope not on the Serge thing. He's cooked and dead money at this point. Both biz and jock are better options.

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Ibaka only makes sense if adding 2.9m to the deal to make the math work. Otherwise - correct.

As for Ayton - will be good to have him back for the Mavs game

I wouldn't want another big because Biz earned his minutes and I like Joc but if we were to bring in a big it would be Holmes if he got bought out. Ibaka doesn't play defense anymore since he started to focus on his offense

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Trading DA and contending this season are mutually exclusive unless we're getting a boat in return.

Even if we received, say, Anunoby and Siakam: how do we match up with Jokic? Or Embiid if the surging Sixers come out of the east? Biyombo and Landale?? Even if we somehow got Poeltl back, too - I'd rather have Ayton on those guys. We really gonna integrate all these pieces into the system in time to contend this season?

Siakam and Anunoby pushes Cam to the bench. Is that for the best? Is a guy like FVV or Rozier a bigger improvement on Payne than DA is on Biyombo??

All things considered, I might go so far as to amend my initial statement to read as follows: Trading DA and contending this season are mutually exclusive.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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As Windhorst mentioned briefly in his podcast I shared on the CBA discussion and looming unknown tax penalty increases, The apprehension with teams trading for Collins is more about his contractual implications for the receiving team towards the premised MORE SEVERE LT penalties in exchange for a soft cap instead of a hard cap and not as much about his injury/production concerns. So it's not entirely surprising they'd be forced to keep him if the value in a return isn't there!