Draft Thread: Who do you want with the 13th pick? Stanley Johnson and WCS added..change votes if you want

[JoRain]

Because the ability to jump high with a running start has no impact on defending. Seriously, everyone talks about his athleticism, but it's based off of his dunks in transition. All of his defensive highlights are against guys who are at least six inches shorter than he is. I'm not saying he's a bad player, but he is not worth a top 5 pick.

That would all be a valid argument if he wasn't 7'2" with a 7'6" wingspan. His standing reach is giant. You don't need a running start and crazy hops to alter shots with that type of size. Lucky for Porzingis, he has both huge size and good athleticism.

So was Darko, so was Bargnani...

Anyone remember Perry Jones? Wasn't he long, athletic, had some handles and shooting range? What's he up to?

Or how about Anthony Randolph? Or Jan Vesely? Or Motiejunas?

We've really got 2 examples of tall, fluid perimeter players and they are Durant and the Greek Freak. Durant flat out dominated in college was 2nd overall and Antetokounmpo was drafted at 15. Randolph, Motiejunas, Jones were all outside the top 13. The 10-13 range is a perfect range for Porzingis to go. 4th overall is a huge reach. ****, even Dirk went 9th.

Motiejunas has actually become pretty good player. If I remember correctly (though I maybe wrong) around trade deadline here was a talk of getting (wanting) him in Dragic trade.
But really, how high the player goes in draft really depends on competition and in this draft I think 4 is ok for him. Bottom line is, I don't really care at which number he is selected, but I would not mind trading Bledsoe to get him.

Also, regarding euro players drafted in top 10, there was a good article on Draftexpress few days ago, comparing them. You should read.



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[MrMiyagi]

That would all be a valid argument if he wasn't 7'2" with a 7'6" wingspan. His standing reach is giant. You don't need a running start and crazy hops to alter shots with that type of size. Lucky for Porzingis, he has both huge size and good athleticism.

So was Darko, so was Bargnani...

Anyone remember Perry Jones? Wasn't he long, athletic, had some handles and shooting range? What's he up to?

Or how about Anthony Randolph? Or Jan Vesely? Or Motiejunas?

We've really got 2 examples of tall, fluid perimeter players and they are Durant and the Greek Freak. Durant flat out dominated in college was 2nd overall and Antetokounmpo was drafted at 15. Randolph, Motiejunas, Jones were all outside the top 13. The 10-13 range is a perfect range for Porzingis to go. 4th overall is a huge reach. ****, even Dirk went 9th.

Motiejunas has actually become pretty good player. If I remember correctly (though I maybe wrong) around trade deadline here was a talk of getting (wanting) him in Dragic trade.
But really, how high the player goes in draft really depends on competition and in this draft I think 4 is ok for him. Bottom line is, I don't really care at which number he is selected, but I would not mind trading Bledsoe to get him.

Also, regarding euro players drafted in top 10, there was a good article on Draftexpress few days ago, comparing them. You should read.



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And the conclusion of that article is "Nobody knows! It depends!" which could be said about drafting any player ever. All I'm saying is, there is a lot of love for Porzingis' POTENTIAL and not a lot about his ABILITY.

[JoRain]

So was Darko, so was Bargnani...

Anyone remember Perry Jones? Wasn't he long, athletic, had some handles and shooting range? What's he up to?

Or how about Anthony Randolph? Or Jan Vesely? Or Motiejunas?

We've really got 2 examples of tall, fluid perimeter players and they are Durant and the Greek Freak. Durant flat out dominated in college was 2nd overall and Antetokounmpo was drafted at 15. Randolph, Motiejunas, Jones were all outside the top 13. The 10-13 range is a perfect range for Porzingis to go. 4th overall is a huge reach. ****, even Dirk went 9th.

Motiejunas has actually become pretty good player. If I remember correctly (though I maybe wrong) around trade deadline here was a talk of getting (wanting) him in Dragic trade.
But really, how high the player goes in draft really depends on competition and in this draft I think 4 is ok for him. Bottom line is, I don't really care at which number he is selected, but I would not mind trading Bledsoe to get him.

Also, regarding euro players drafted in top 10, there was a good article on Draftexpress few days ago, comparing them. You should read.



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And the conclusion of that article is "Nobody knows! It depends!" which could be said about drafting any player ever. All I'm saying is, there is a lot of love for Porzingis' POTENTIAL and not a lot about his ABILITY.

I would say you are right about that, given his terrific measurements, but I think that is also not really fair to him as well. Porzingis is quite skilled as well so it's not just his size and athleticism. But if you look from other end, his biggest weakness and problem is his lack of strength and bulk, rather than lack of ability.



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[SunsFanSSOL]

The Heat, needing to preserve flexibility after re-signing Goran Dragic and potentially Dwyane Wade this summer, are open to trading the 10th pick if it means unloading salary. (Josh McRoberts, for example, is owed $17 million over the next three years.)

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ken-berger/25223896/draft-buzz-celtics-trying-to-move-up-heat-contemplating-a-gamble

Suns should do this in an instant.

[MrMiyagi]

I hear that he is decent at a lot of things, but decency at a lot of things doesn't really constitute a top 5 pick. Russell is an excellent passer and scorer, Okafor is an excellent post player, Towns is an excellent defender and rebounder, Winslow is an excellent defender athlete and rebounder (for his position) and a good passer. Those guys are top 5 players. I'm not sure if Porzingis is the fifth guy with them. I'm uncertain of Mudiay and Hezonja as well. I think Stanley Johnson is similar enough to Winslow, I think Booker is an excellent shooter, I think Kaminsky has shown more than Porzingis, I think Willie Cauley-Stein is an excellent defender. I would take these guys over Porzingis. That's 8 guys (I'm not including Mudiay or Hezonja) that I'd take over Porzingis.

[bwgood77]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/613811876661739521[/tweet]

I'd seriously consider trading PJ and a 2nd for Zeller. Zeller IMO is better than Kaminsky, and if Kaminsky goes #9, there's a higher chance Johnson falls to us.

BTW: I don't know if this is better to post here or the trade thread, seeing as how this pertains to the draft too.

They would have ZERO interest in Tucker. They need shooters. They already have MKG...a great defender wing who can't shoot.

[bwgood77]

Ugh. Those are anecdotes not an argument. There is no point in answering.

It's a trend that has legitimacy. Just like Kentucky big men at the moment (Cousins, Davis, Nerlens, Randle, now Towns).

Again, I don't think Porzingis is a bad player, but he should not be a top 5 pick.

Don't really see any legitimacy there. How good players are on particular college team depends on coaches recruiting ability, and not on coach developing them. Not for one and done players anyway. The same way can't judge Euro players by their looks. Guys like Skita and Milicic did not achieve anything in Europe before being drafted while guys like Nowitzki, Gasol and Valanciunas proved their value, as did Porzingis.

In this draft I think he is worth a top 5 pick, as I don't see 5 players I would pick ahead of him; Towns, maybe Russell (though also very high risk), and maybe Hezonja. I rate Porzingis higher than Okafor.


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We have the same top 4. If we get the 4th pick, I want one of those four guys. Russell probably last on my list of the four as well.

[jcsunsfan]

The Heat, needing to preserve flexibility after re-signing Goran Dragic and potentially Dwyane Wade this summer, are open to trading the 10th pick if it means unloading salary. (Josh McRoberts, for example, is owed $17 million over the next three years.)

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ken-berger/25223896/draft-buzz-celtics-trying-to-move-up-heat-contemplating-a-gamble

Suns should do this in an instant.

But they won't. They think they are at stage 2 of rebuilding and want vet help, not a bunch of rookies. Taking McRoberts puts them completely out of any free agency run.

[SunsFanSSOL]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/613811876661739521[/tweet]

I'd seriously consider trading PJ and a 2nd for Zeller. Zeller IMO is better than Kaminsky, and if Kaminsky goes #9, there's a higher chance Johnson falls to us.

BTW: I don't know if this is better to post here or the trade thread, seeing as how this pertains to the draft too.

They would have ZERO interest in Tucker. They need shooters. They already have MKG...a great defender wing who can't shoot.

Take Bullock or Marcus then.

Markieff + Marcus + CLE 2016 1st Rounder
for
Zeller + #9

[kennydorglas]

I'm glad to see someone who didnt buy in this freakish Porzingis hype.
I never seen anything like that before. His agent should be remembered for years.

[AtheJ415]

Because the ability to jump high with a running start has no impact on defending. Seriously, everyone talks about his athleticism, but it's based off of his dunks in transition. All of his defensive highlights are against guys who are at least six inches shorter than he is. I'm not saying he's a bad player, but he is not worth a top 5 pick.

That would all be a valid argument if he wasn't 7'2" with a 7'6" wingspan. His standing reach is giant. You don't need a running start and crazy hops to alter shots with that type of size. Lucky for Porzingis, he has both huge size and good athleticism.

So was Darko, so was Bargnani...

Anyone remember Perry Jones? Wasn't he long, athletic, had some handles and shooting range? What's he up to?

Or how about Anthony Randolph? Or Jan Vesely? Or Motiejunas?

We've really got 2 examples of tall, fluid perimeter players and they are Durant and the Greek Freak. Durant flat out dominated in college was 2nd overall and Antetokounmpo was drafted at 15. Randolph, Motiejunas, Jones were all outside the top 13. The 10-13 range is a perfect range for Porzingis to go. 4th overall is a huge reach. ****, even Dirk went 9th.

Not even worth the time to type more than this as a response.

[bwgood77]

Defensive potential =/= defensive ability. Offensive potential =/= offensive ability. What can Porzingis actually do, right now, from day 1 in the NBA? Right now I'm hearing a lot of "be tall and (kind of) athletic". Also if we're actually considering Porzingis a shot blocker/rim protector at 1.8 blocks per 40, then I'm gonna count Okafor as one with 1.8 blocks per 40.

I don't think ANY of these guys are ready to step in and be immediate studs. I think Okafor could play in the post right now on offense sometimes, but he would get winded in the nba game with the schedule and would get killed on the defensive end. He also had games where he had like 5 points.

No one is ready to step up and make a big difference immediately. You saw Russell against AZ in the tourney. The dude was absolutely shut down and went like 2-13 or something. Once he faces NBA level talent, he got shut down....and those guys are not in the nba yet obviously.

Towns will be decent at first but he only played like 20 minutes a night.

Kaminsky might be the guy most ready to contribute....but his upside is very low.

Porzingis and Hezonja have played against a lot tougher competition already than any of these other guys. Sure the ACC is tough, but I don't know how well they would do in the euroleagues.

[AtheJ415]

I'm glad to see someone who didnt buy in this freakish Nowitzki hype.
I never seen anything like that before. His agent should be remembered for years.

Fixed it for you, since the same things were said back when he was drafted.


I'd just like to see someone judge him for him instead of spouting off lists of tall european white players who didn't translate well to the NBA.

I guess I should start complaining about athletic black big men who dominated college as freshmen since Beasley failed. Thoughts?

[bwgood77]

The Heat, needing to preserve flexibility after re-signing Goran Dragic and potentially Dwyane Wade this summer, are open to trading the 10th pick if it means unloading salary. (Josh McRoberts, for example, is owed $17 million over the next three years.)

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ken-berger/25223896/draft-buzz-celtics-trying-to-move-up-heat-contemplating-a-gamble

Suns should do this in an instant.

That's perfect. They could probably use McRoberts some too. That's a pretty cheap contract. It would be great to have 10 and 13. We could probably get Stanley Johnson or Myles Turner at 10 and then Portis or Looney at 13. Or Kaminsky at one of the spots, but I'm guessing McD is not high on him.

The bad thing is that we could get an ok stretch four (better than Tolliver) and the 10th pick, but we won't because we will want to preserve cap space to go after Love, so we will end up with no stretch four because Love likely doesn't sign here.

But hats off to McD if he CAN get Love.

[thamadkant]

Rondae Hollis Jefferson looks very intriguing.
- Elite athleticism
- Physical, aggressive
- Elite wingspan for his size (7'2)
- Has good vision and IQ, evidence by his play making abilities.
- Elite defender
- Gets to the free throw line

He doesnt have a very good offensive repertoire though, doesnt have range, below average offensive arsenal of moves.
BUT... a big BUT... can be developed as a spot up shooter eventually.


If available between pick 14 - 20, Suns should move Tucker/Morris twins.

[bwgood77]

Rondae Hollis Jefferson looks very intriguing.
- Elite athleticism
- Physical, aggressive
- Elite wingspan for his size (7'2)
- Has good vision and IQ, evidence by his play making abilities.
- Elite defender
- Gets to the free throw line

He doesnt have a very good offensive repertoire though, doesnt have range, below average offensive arsenal of moves.
BUT... a big BUT... can be developed as a spot up shooter eventually.


If available between pick 14 - 20, Suns should move Tucker/Morris twins.

He'd be a nice backup to Warren if we moved Tucker, but if we move the twins, we need a PF big time. RHJ will be great defensively, but people won't guard him on offense and others will get double teamed. I wouldn't count on him developing a jump shot. MKG went like 3rd and still hasn't developed a jump shot.

[thamadkant]

Unless RHJ works on his spot up shooting... which is possible.

If RHJ can mimic Leonard's defense on Curry.... he's worth putting on the court. You need players to throw on Curry, Westbrook, Harden etc. Make them shoot 30% and turn the ball over 5+ a game.... it really does change the tide of the game by messing up the rhythm of those teams.

I envision McD stocking up on "long" "athletic" defenders as his counter measure for the rise of the high-usage combo guards/forwards.

- Goodwin 6'5, 6'11 wingspan
- RHJ 6'7, 7'2 wingspan
- Bledsoe 6'1, 6'7 wingspan

Having 2-3 wing defenders who can bother shooters and stay in front of them is going to be HUGE in the modern NBA as much as bigs who can shoot.

[MrMiyagi]

Defensive potential =/= defensive ability. Offensive potential =/= offensive ability. What can Porzingis actually do, right now, from day 1 in the NBA? Right now I'm hearing a lot of "be tall and (kind of) athletic". Also if we're actually considering Porzingis a shot blocker/rim protector at 1.8 blocks per 40, then I'm gonna count Okafor as one with 1.8 blocks per 40.

I don't think ANY of these guys are ready to step in and be immediate studs. I think Okafor could play in the post right now on offense sometimes, but he would get winded in the nba game with the schedule and would get killed on the defensive end. He also had games where he had like 5 points.

No one is ready to step up and make a big difference immediately. You saw Russell against AZ in the tourney. The dude was absolutely shut down and went like 2-13 or something. Once he faces NBA level talent, he got shut down....and those guys are not in the nba yet obviously.

Towns will be decent at first but he only played like 20 minutes a night.

Kaminsky might be the guy most ready to contribute....but his upside is very low.

Porzingis and Hezonja have played against a lot tougher competition already than any of these other guys. Sure the ACC is tough, but I don't know how well they would do in the euroleagues.

I know Porzingis is a big, but none of the offense he gets comes from him doing anything but catching the ball. I mean, occasionally he'll get an offensive rebound, but he doesn't even do that all that much. I'm not sure he has in-game post moves. At least with Hezonja you can see he gets his own offense, same with Mudiay and Okafor and Towns and Russell. If I'm going to take a guy who can't get his own buckets, he'd better be a great defender, and nothing I've seen of him shows he is. He's not a great shot blocker, he really doesn't have that great of lateral quickness or closing speed. He does have height, but height doesn't always mean a rim protector. To me, the only difference between him and Willie Cauley-Stein is that he can shoot a jump shot, but Cauley-Stein owns him on the other end of the floor. I mean, maybe he becomes a great pick-and-pop player and becomes Channing Frye. Would he be worth the 4th overall pick in this draft?

[MrMiyagi]

I'm glad to see someone who didnt buy in this freakish Nowitzki hype.
I never seen anything like that before. His agent should be remembered for years.

Fixed it for you, since the same things were said back when he was drafted.


I'd just like to see someone judge him for him instead of spouting off lists of tall european white players who didn't translate well to the NBA.

I guess I should start complaining about athletic black big men who dominated college as freshmen since Beasley failed. Thoughts?

I think I've provided ample criticism of both his play and used examples of all "do-it-all" seven footers at large who haven't panned out. But yeah, just go diminish my argument to the fact that he's a white guy.

[thamadkant]

IMO, Okafor will end up being better than Towns.
Towns looks like Rasheed Wallace... Okafor looks like a bigger Al Jefferson or a lesser defensive version of Duncan. Teams with the right system can make Okafor an NBA MVP candidate IMO.

Lakers need to realize they can have their next decade team if they stick to rebuilding... but they want lakers to be in the playoffs... against way better teams.