The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Also, Tom talked about moving back in the draft to three and Jake might have ( don’t know for sure) said something to the fact. I spoke with him for about 2-3 minutes and had no idea who he was until the show started. If I knew who he was prior, I would have asked more questions instead of debate him....Tom told me to talk to him because I was into analytics, lol. I told him I hated analytics but I knew so much because of this board Tom and Jake was impressed with my knowledge, lmao. I can imagine if they had talked to BW about all the analytics lol.

Awesome, awesome post, JMac. Thanks for sharing!!

Interesting idea, trading back to #3. Can't imagine what the Hawks would be willing to add that would be worth it. JJJ would be the #1 pick in many a draft, but trading down from #1 would really surprise me.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

How is he a premier athlete? Because of his insane size?

Size is an important part of being a premier athlete. You can have the quickest twitch muscles in the wide world, but you still need to be big enough for it to matter. Size alone obviously doesn't do it, of course. There's a difference between being 6'4 300 lbs and being 6'4 300 lbs. It's what you can do at your size that matters. And Bamba ain't lumbering up and down the floor like most of the world's tall men.

I watched him a ton at UT living in Austin and saw him live. He's not exactly athletic. Having size to be a C in the NBA is obviously important but it doesn't mean you are athletic. Did you watch him play a lot? If so I'm surprised you think he's a premier athlete.

Ayton is athletic and a premier athlete. Bamba, not so much, but he can block shots having probably the longest wingspan in the world and is working on his shot and is obviously confident.

I guess it depends on what you mean. There are very few people in the world who can get as high as he can. That's an athletic achievement. Are professional shotputters "athletic"? The way I'm using it, yes. Not so sure under your definition.

123 pages in. We've beaten this topic to death so hard that I'm debating semantics.

[Mjee]

Welp. Just returned from the Suns Draft Sneak Peek event, glad I missed the game....dumbass JR, choking Hill and refs. Appears the BBall Gods are giving GS Lakers type love.

Anyways, there were four questions asked of the Panel which consisted of Jones and Jake the analytics guy. Tom Leander hosted. I got to ask the first question.

I didn’t ask who are we gonna draft and explain why I wanted Ayton. Tom picked me first because he thought I was going to do that. Before the Q and A started, we had a big debate about Ayton and Bagley, who he liked. Also, I had a conversation with Jake the analytics guy, who loves JJJ. He said he had guard types handles?!? I let both guys know Ayton was my guy. I told Tom Ayton could do what Bagley does and more. Tom said Ayton could slow down the offense, although he went back and forth on the two. My question was “is it the system or player?” And I cautioned that if some believes it’s the system, they might be fooled into replicating GS without Curry Durant and Klay, and fail badly. My question was in reference to who we might pick. I thought if JJ gave me some good info there, I could try to figure out who best suited his answer. He didn’t fall for it.

JJ said both....he was very coy all night. He stated that the NBA does run in cycles though, which I liked. You have to have a system and players that fit the system. Tom then said, aloud, that I disappointed him because he thought I was going to go all in and beat them up about Ayton. He also told the crowd I was going to be the Suns new strength and conditioning coach, because I was in incredible shape lol! It was a cool shot out to the crowd. I guess I could have said I held that position for this board.

One fan let JJ have it about Sarver (mgmt). Said he should be here. He stated that he spent 7k on season tix and we haven’t had any leadership. He also stated Booker is gonna leave. He was heated. JJ said we have to win before we could get what he was looking for. He used Lebron goIng to Cleveland as an example and he following. He did a good job of relating to the guy and accommodating his emotions. They took a lot of heat from him, and rightfully so.

Jake, to the chagrin of JJ provided a lot more insight. He said that we were looking to move those later picks, create cap space and bring in TWO vets. I was like dang, this guy is making JJ uncomfortable.

They spoke about leverage we had to get just about anyone to come in for a workout, because we had a top middle and late pick. He said we could manipulate Agents that way, JJ immediately stated we wouldn’t do that, lol. Again, I was like dang Jake.

Most fans I spoke to said Ayton. A few came up to me and said they liked my question and thought we shouldn’t buy into the system and not skip on Ayton. Surprising, no Doncic talk, and a couple other guys didn’t like him, because he wasn’t an explosive athlete. Tom Leander spoke on his winning and the guys did acknowledge he was seasoned.

I took a picture with JJ and said “I want a picture with the man who is drafting Ayton.” He just laughed and said he’ll let me know on draft night.

I talked with Tom a lot about diet, lol. He is a very nice guy. A know a lot here don’t like his broadcast, but he is very cool. He invited me to come see him and Tom Chambers when they are hanging out doing the pre and post game shows.

Also, Tom talked about moving back in the draft to three and Jake might have ( don’t know for sure) said something to the fact. I spoke with him for about 2-3 minutes and had no idea who he was until the show started. If I knew who he was prior, I would have asked more questions instead of debate him....Tom told me to talk to him because I was into analytics, lol. I told him I hated analytics but I knew so much because of this board Tom and Jake was impressed with my knowledge, lmao. I can imagine if they had talked to BW about all the analytics lol.

Jake majored in math at Northwestern and he was attending MIT Business school and met someone from the Suns, that’s how he got hooked up. A Nerd Basketball junkie. So there’s hope for you analytic guys. Major in math, watch a ton of basketball and network.

This is awesome JMac!! Thanks for all the info.... could you get a sense or a gut feeling on who our FO is picking !??? I’m sure they were super vague with everything like you said. My guess is that most people there wanted Ayton!? Great write up though .... gracias

[bwgood77]

Size is an important part of being a premier athlete. You can have the quickest twitch muscles in the wide world, but you still need to be big enough for it to matter. Size alone obviously doesn't do it, of course. There's a difference between being 6'4 300 lbs and being 6'4 300 lbs. It's what you can do at your size that matters. And Bamba ain't lumbering up and down the floor like most of the world's tall men.

I watched him a ton at UT living in Austin and saw him live. He's not exactly athletic. Having size to be a C in the NBA is obviously important but it doesn't mean you are athletic. Did you watch him play a lot? If so I'm surprised you think he's a premier athlete.

Ayton is athletic and a premier athlete. Bamba, not so much, but he can block shots having probably the longest wingspan in the world and is working on his shot and is obviously confident.

I guess it depends on what you mean. There are very few people in the world who can get as high as he can. That's an athletic achievement. Are professional shotputters "athletic"? The way I'm using it, yes. Not so sure under your definition.

123 pages in. We've beaten this topic to death so hard that I'm debating semantics.

Are professional shotputters athletic? I guess it depends on the guy, but many might not be, but we are talking about NBA athleticism and my opinion is that he isn't a premier athlete when considering NBA players. Maybe he is and I'm wrong.

Doesn't mean he won't end up being a good or great NBA player but I just don't consider him a premier athlete. He is a very likable guy though.

[SuperSunsFan]

JJJ is the jayson tatum of this draft, the relative low risk safe pick, jack of all trade but nothing stands out, bust factor is low but so does his star factor, the player with the least weaknesses but the ceiling is moderate. However, if you look back the last two drafts, the safe picks won out (2016 - Murray, Hield 2017- Tatum)

[lilfishi22]

JJJ is the jayson tatum of this draft, the safe pick, the player with the least weaknesses but the ceiling is moderate. However, if you look back the last two drafts, the safe picks won (2016 - Murray, Hield 2017- Tatum)

I like JJJ as a prospect and I think he has as much potential defensively but I just can't consider him a safe pick. I think he's safer than Bamba but I'm just not sure I'm comfortable with his weaknesses, specifically how high his foul rate is. With the kid so young and already having foul trouble, I fear that those two factors combined could keep him off the NBA floor which would stunt his development.

[JMac1]

Also, Tom talked about moving back in the draft to three and Jake might have ( don’t know for sure) said something to the fact. I spoke with him for about 2-3 minutes and had no idea who he was until the show started. If I knew who he was prior, I would have asked more questions instead of debate him....Tom told me to talk to him because I was into analytics, lol. I told him I hated analytics but I knew so much because of this board Tom and Jake was impressed with my knowledge, lmao. I can imagine if they had talked to BW about all the analytics lol.

Awesome, awesome post, JMac. Thanks for sharing!!

Interesting idea, trading back to #3. Can't imagine what the Hawks would be willing to add that would be worth it. JJJ would be the #1 pick in many a draft, but trading down from #1 would really surprise me.

Yea. I think Jake really really likes JJJ. When he spoke about him, his eyes lit up like a deer in headlights. I was like, maybe I’m totally wrong on him.

They also talked about how workouts were overlooked and guys like Mitchell and Kuzman fell even though they had outstanding workouts. He said you get stuck with the “should I believe the workout or tape.” Jake thinks there will be an over correction this year because people missed on those two last year. He said there will be some surprises in the lottery for sure.

[JMac1]

This is awesome JMac!! Thanks for all the info.... could you get a sense or a gut feeling on who our FO is picking !??? I’m sure they were super vague with everything like you said. My guess is that most people there wanted Ayton!? Great write up though .... gracias

Thanks and nope. No read. Jones is tight lipped.

[Midnight_Suns]

Bamba is not a premier athlete. He is a draft prospect.

Yeah okay.

How is he a premier athlete? Because of his insane size/length?

You are not playing in the NBA if you aren't are premier athlete. You don't have to be Westbrook or LeBron to fall into that category.

[Saberestar]

Watch on YouTube

[thamadkant]

JJJ is the jayson tatum of this draft, the relative low risk safe pick, jack of all trade but nothing stands out, bust factor is low but so does his star factor, the player with the least weaknesses but the ceiling is moderate. However, if you look back the last two drafts, the safe picks won out (2016 - Murray, Hield 2017- Tatum)

JJJ can come in next season and play Looney and Bell's role and do it well.... as an 18 year old. And he could even hit a couple of 3pters if the team sets him up.... he's a contributor because of his skill set....

He'll eventually develop his front face game and he would be a star IMO

[thamadkant]

JJJ is the jayson tatum of this draft, the safe pick, the player with the least weaknesses but the ceiling is moderate. However, if you look back the last two drafts, the safe picks won (2016 - Murray, Hield 2017- Tatum)

I like JJJ as a prospect and I think he has as much potential defensively but I just can't consider him a safe pick. I think he's safer than Bamba but I'm just not sure I'm comfortable with his weaknesses, specifically how high his foul rate is. With the kid so young and already having foul trouble, I fear that those two factors combined could keep him off the NBA floor which would stunt his development.

his foul rate is not an issue... again same foul rate as Embiid and Towns.

Whomever drafts him will have veteran players and coaches to tell him how to avoid silly fouls but yet effectively play defense.... they learn quick.

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

[Blonde]

I also attended the Peak in the War Room event last night. Didn’t know it was Jmac who asked the first question but it was definitely a good question. When the guy started bashing Sarver and the team it got super awkward but James Jones handled it with class.

Anyway, they didn’t provide any hint at direction, but Jake did mention bringing in two guys this year - maybe referring to 2 vets or 2 picks I’m not sure, but it seemed like he meant 2 impact guys. He said we will see the plan set set in motion this summer and apologized for us suffering as fans the last few seasons. Winning asap is definitely a priority. They also said that sometimes when there are tons of good guys at one position, a team may need to pivot and find a cornerstone at another position, and the league can be cyclical like that.

They also repeated that box score stats don’t mean much to them without context (obviously). For example, when looking at how good of a 3pt shooter someone will be they don’t just look at percentage, they look at how often they swish it, how often it’s contested, how many dribbles they take, etc. James Jones said the biggest thing he looks at in a player is consistency - whether they can repeat their motions and actions over and over. They said they have decision trees for every possible scenario on who we take at each pick and what free agents we go after.

I’m satisfied knowing that whoever they take, there will be a concrete plan on how to maximize the roster with that new player. I could see the front office going either way with this pick, and am confident they will try very hard to trade up and grab another high level prospect. Doncic+JJJ/Carter/Bamba or Ayton+Porter would be a great start to building a contender.

[JMac1]

I also attended the Peak in the War Room event last night. Didn’t know it was Jmac who asked the first question but it was definitely a good question. When the guy started bashing Sarver and the team it got super awkward but James Jones handled it with class.

Anyway, they didn’t provide any hint at direction, but Jake did mention bringing in two guys this year - maybe referring to 2 vets or 2 picks I’m not sure, but it seemed like he meant 2 impact guys. He said we will see the plan set set in motion this summer and apologized for us suffering as fans the last few seasons. Winning asap is definitely a priority. They also said that sometimes when there are tons of good guys at one position, a team may need to pivot and find a cornerstone at another position, and the league can be cyclical like that.

They also repeated that box score stats don’t mean much to them without context (obviously). For example, when looking at how good of a 3pt shooter someone will be they don’t just look at percentage, they look at how often they swish it, how often it’s contested, how many dribbles they take, etc. James Jones said the biggest thing he looks at in a player is consistency - whether they can repeat their motions and actions over and over. They said they have decision trees for every possible scenario on who we take at each pick and what free agents we go after.

I’m satisfied knowing that whoever they take, there will be a concrete plan on how to maximize the roster with that new player. I could see the front office going either way with this pick, and am confident they will try very hard to trade up and grab another high level prospect. Doncic+JJJ/Carter/Bamba or Ayton+Porter would be a great start to building a contender.

Yea. Thanks for filling in that info. They went into great detail on scouting. Did you think Jake was saying a little more than JJ wanted him to say?

[King4Day]

I also attended the Peak in the War Room event last night. Didn’t know it was Jmac who asked the first question but it was definitely a good question. When the guy started bashing Sarver and the team it got super awkward but James Jones handled it with class.

Anyway, they didn’t provide any hint at direction, but Jake did mention bringing in two guys this year - maybe referring to 2 vets or 2 picks I’m not sure, but it seemed like he meant 2 impact guys. He said we will see the plan set set in motion this summer and apologized for us suffering as fans the last few seasons. Winning asap is definitely a priority. They also said that sometimes when there are tons of good guys at one position, a team may need to pivot and find a cornerstone at another position, and the league can be cyclical like that.

They also repeated that box score stats don’t mean much to them without context (obviously). For example, when looking at how good of a 3pt shooter someone will be they don’t just look at percentage, they look at how often they swish it, how often it’s contested, how many dribbles they take, etc. James Jones said the biggest thing he looks at in a player is consistency - whether they can repeat their motions and actions over and over. They said they have decision trees for every possible scenario on who we take at each pick and what free agents we go after.

I’m satisfied knowing that whoever they take, there will be a concrete plan on how to maximize the roster with that new player. I could see the front office going either way with this pick, and am confident they will try very hard to trade up and grab another high level prospect. Doncic+JJJ/Carter/Bamba or Ayton+Porter would be a great start to building a contender.

Good info. One has to always assume they have those 'trees' but I would love to see it. Just to know who we're interested in.

[Blonde]

Yea. Thanks for filling in that info. They went into great detail on scouting. Did you think Jake was saying a little more than JJ wanted him to say?

I did get that sense a tiny bit. It was clear JJ was trying to be vague and general about everything while Jake was a little more candid which I appreciated. I’m sure nothing is concrete at the moment so it really doesn’t matter though.

[JMac1]

Yea. Thanks for filling in that info. They went into great detail on scouting. Did you think Jake was saying a little more than JJ wanted him to say?

I did get that sense a tiny bit. It was clear JJ was trying to be vague and general about everything while Jake was a little more candid which I appreciated. I’m sure nothing is concrete at the moment so it really doesn’t matter though.

I’m tempering my expectations and readying myself for anything. The guy last night who represents the fans, Booker’s evolution, the number 1 pick, tons of picks in the cupboard, the number 16 and 31 this year, gives us a lot of ammo to go in a ton of directions and for us to try to narrow it down is fun, however, futile.

I like JJ, he has a good demeanor and seems knowledgeable and likeable. I’ll trust whatever they do. I wouldn’t have said that before last night. Those guys care just as much as we do.

[Archx]

On a more funnier note. I just hope Suns pick someone who has a higher BBIQ than JR Smith ... That would be a great start.