Draft Thread: Who do you want with the 13th pick? Stanley Johnson and WCS added..change votes if you want

[SunsFanSSOL]

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/6/24/8836361/trey-lyles-kentucky-basketball-nba-draft-prospect

[Damkac]

Defensive potential =/= defensive ability. Offensive potential =/= offensive ability. What can Porzingis actually do, right now, from day 1 in the NBA? Right now I'm hearing a lot of "be tall and (kind of) athletic". Also if we're actually considering Porzingis a shot blocker/rim protector at 1.8 blocks per 40, then I'm gonna count Okafor as one with 1.8 blocks per 40.

I don't think ANY of these guys are ready to step in and be immediate studs. I think Okafor could play in the post right now on offense sometimes, but he would get winded in the nba game with the schedule and would get killed on the defensive end. He also had games where he had like 5 points.

No one is ready to step up and make a big difference immediately. You saw Russell against AZ in the tourney. The dude was absolutely shut down and went like 2-13 or something. Once he faces NBA level talent, he got shut down....and those guys are not in the nba yet obviously.

Towns will be decent at first but he only played like 20 minutes a night.

Kaminsky might be the guy most ready to contribute....but his upside is very low.

Porzingis and Hezonja have played against a lot tougher competition already than any of these other guys. Sure the ACC is tough, but I don't know how well they would do in the euroleagues.

I know Porzingis is a big, but none of the offense he gets comes from him doing anything but catching the ball. I mean, occasionally he'll get an offensive rebound, but he doesn't even do that all that much. I'm not sure he has in-game post moves. At least with Hezonja you can see he gets his own offense, same with Mudiay and Okafor and Towns and Russell. If I'm going to take a guy who can't get his own buckets, he'd better be a great defender, and nothing I've seen of him shows he is. He's not a great shot blocker, he really doesn't have that great of lateral quickness or closing speed. He does have height, but height doesn't always mean a rim protector. To me, the only difference between him and Willie Cauley-Stein is that he can shoot a jump shot, but Cauley-Stein owns him on the other end of the floor. I mean, maybe he becomes a great pick-and-pop player and becomes Channing Frye. Would he be worth the 4th overall pick in this draft?

1) Is Okafor a rim protector?
2) Worst case he is providing spacing on offence and Frye-Dragic duo showed us how great thing a 4 with 3 point range is. Len-Okafor frontcourt has zero spacing. Mayby it would work if other 3 guys are great shooters but otherwise defending team gather near the paint and good luck with scoring.

[JoRain]

I hear that he is decent at a lot of things, but decency at a lot of things doesn't really constitute a top 5 pick. Russell is an excellent passer and scorer, Okafor is an excellent post player, Towns is an excellent defender and rebounder, Winslow is an excellent defender athlete and rebounder (for his position) and a good passer. Those guys are top 5 players. I'm not sure if Porzingis is the fifth guy with them. I'm uncertain of Mudiay and Hezonja as well. I think Stanley Johnson is similar enough to Winslow, I think Booker is an excellent shooter, I think Kaminsky has shown more than Porzingis, I think Willie Cauley-Stein is an excellent defender. I would take these guys over Porzingis. That's 8 guys (I'm not including Mudiay or Hezonja) that I'd take over Porzingis.

There are plenty of comparisons to those guys as well, but I guess it's a matter of how we see prospects. Winslow and Johnson will be useful player but seeing how MKG panned out, not really that exciting. Booker is excellent shooter, but so was Jason Kapono. As bad as he is at everything else, I wouldn't touch him in the lottery. Stauskas also could be an indication. Kaminsky I'm not a fan off. Yes he did well, mostly playing in offense that was run for him, and most nights against kids smaller than him.
I would agree on WCS if not for the medical concerns popping up in the news lately. And I already expressed my opinion on Okafor.

Obviously nothing is given and how good players will be depend a lot from the situation they're going to end up in, but I would be excited to see Porzingis in a Suns uni.


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[lilfishi22]

I'm glad to see someone who didnt buy in this freakish Nowitzki hype.
I never seen anything like that before. His agent should be remembered for years.

Fixed it for you, since the same things were said back when he was drafted.


I'd just like to see someone judge him for him instead of spouting off lists of tall european white players who didn't translate well to the NBA.

I guess I should start complaining about athletic black big men who dominated college as freshmen since Beasley failed. Thoughts?

Once again for every great Euro that's seen success, you could pull another 2-3 similar Euro's who's been a complete bust.

Look at the player for what he brings to the table, not the player you see him to be.

[SunsFanSSOL]

CHA hopefully drafting Kaminsky after trading Vonleh.

[lilfishi22]

I know Porzingis is a big, but none of the offense he gets comes from him doing anything but catching the ball. I mean, occasionally he'll get an offensive rebound, but he doesn't even do that all that much. I'm not sure he has in-game post moves. At least with Hezonja you can see he gets his own offense, same with Mudiay and Okafor and Towns and Russell. If I'm going to take a guy who can't get his own buckets, he'd better be a great defender, and nothing I've seen of him shows he is. He's not a great shot blocker, he really doesn't have that great of lateral quickness or closing speed. He does have height, but height doesn't always mean a rim protector. To me, the only difference between him and Willie Cauley-Stein is that he can shoot a jump shot, but Cauley-Stein owns him on the other end of the floor. I mean, maybe he becomes a great pick-and-pop player and becomes Channing Frye. Would he be worth the 4th overall pick in this draft?

1) Is Okafor a rim protector?
2) Worst case he is providing spacing on offence and Frye-Dragic duo showed us how great thing a 4 with 3 point range is. Len-Okafor frontcourt has zero spacing. Mayby it would work if other 3 guys are great shooters but otherwise defending team gather near the paint and good luck with scoring.

1. Okafor can play in the post right now
2. Worst case scenario is we picked up Channing Frye with #4 pick (who we would've traded Beldsoe for)

[bwgood77]

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/6/24/8836361/trey-lyles-kentucky-basketball-nba-draft-prospect

I'd be happy with Lyles. I have a good feeling about him. All I hear is how smart of a player he is. If the Knicks hadn't mentioned they like him, I think he would be completely under the radar, and he still might be.

Like I mentioned earlier, I don't think I'd be terribly disappointed with anyone except WCS...and I'm not nearly as high on Kaminsky as I once was the more I think about it. But my top three and votes keep changing when I further research people.

[jcsunsfan]

Vonleh is Alderidge insurance for Portland.

[kennydorglas]

Ohhh, Booker will slide.
I'm terrified right now.

DAMN

[AtheJ415]

I'm glad to see someone who didnt buy in this freakish Nowitzki hype.
I never seen anything like that before. His agent should be remembered for years.

Fixed it for you, since the same things were said back when he was drafted.


I'd just like to see someone judge him for him instead of spouting off lists of tall european white players who didn't translate well to the NBA.

I guess I should start complaining about athletic black big men who dominated college as freshmen since Beasley failed. Thoughts?

I think I've provided ample criticism of both his play and used examples of all "do-it-all" seven footers at large who haven't panned out. But yeah, just go diminish my argument to the fact that he's a white guy.

What criticisms of his play? And pointing to other guys with skill sets that didn't work out, particularly guys who didn't move as well as him (seriously, you said Bargnani was "fluid", lol), is not a valid criticism of said player, particularly when you ignore all the ones who did.

It would be like me saying Turner will suck because Vonleh hasn't worked out, or similar really crappy logic.

[AtheJ415]

I'm glad to see someone who didnt buy in this freakish Nowitzki hype.
I never seen anything like that before. His agent should be remembered for years.

Fixed it for you, since the same things were said back when he was drafted.


I'd just like to see someone judge him for him instead of spouting off lists of tall european white players who didn't translate well to the NBA.

I guess I should start complaining about athletic black big men who dominated college as freshmen since Beasley failed. Thoughts?

Once again for every great Euro that's seen success, you could pull another 2-3 similar Euro's who's been a complete bust.

Look at the player for what he brings to the table, not the player you see him to be.

I am, and I see him to be a damn good player with a lot of potential. And for every uber-athletic American player, I can pull 2-3 who didn't work out. For instance, after Kobe and KG got drafted, guys like Gerald Green, Eddy Curry, Kwame Brown, etc. were all picked.

My point being we have people on here who are criticizing him for other players from the same continent coming out with similar height and skin color. I agree, we should judge them based on their actual skills--not what other people before him did with their own separate skills.

[SunsFanSSOL]

CHA just traded for Jeremy Lamb, Booker is probably out.

[lilfishi22]

I am, and I see him to be a damn good player with a lot of potential. And for every uber-athletic American player, I can pull 2-3 who didn't work out. For instance, after Kobe and KG got drafted, guys like Gerald Green, Eddy Curry, Kwame Brown, etc. were all picked.

My point being we have people on here who are criticizing him for other players from the same continent coming out with similar height and skin color. I agree, we should judge them based on their actual skills--not what other people before him did with their own separate skills.

When I see potential, I also consider likelihood of reaching that potential. I have trouble seeing him reach his "immense" potential.

I feel MrMiyagi summed up my feelings very well

At least with Hezonja you can see he gets his own offense, same with Mudiay and Okafor and Towns and Russell. If I'm going to take a guy who can't get his own buckets, he'd better be a great defender, and nothing I've seen of him shows he is. He's not a great shot blocker, he really doesn't have that great of lateral quickness or closing speed.

[RaisingArizona]

CHA just traded for Jeremy Lamb, Booker is probably out.

Booker to the Suns? Book it!

[lilfishi22]

CHA just traded for Jeremy Lamb, Booker is probably out.

Booker to the Suns? Book it!

uhhh I'm not high on Booker at all

Shooters in the past few drafts haven't exactly been productive so I'm super cautious about drafting a shooter.

[thamadkant]

Ohhh, Booker will slide.
I'm terrified right now.

DAMN

yeah, I dont want Booker.
Hornacek probably trying to convince McD to draft him..
McD HOPEFULLY ignores that request and drafts BPA.. high ceiling.

[Qwigglez]

Don't want Montrezl Harrell anymore - found out his agent is Rich Paul.

So that's why Bled and Harrell were at the Cavs finals game.

[kennydorglas]

Ohhh, Booker will slide.
I'm terrified right now.

DAMN

yeah, I dont want Booker.
Hornacek probably trying to convince McD to draft him..
McD HOPEFULLY ignores that request and drafts BPA.. high ceiling.

if Booker is there, they'll take him.
it's really sad

[JMac1]

What's wrong with Booker? He isn't Winslow, but I think he is a perfect 2 guard.

[Saberestar]

Ohhh, Booker will slide.
I'm terrified right now.

DAMN

yeah, I dont want Booker.
Hornacek probably trying to convince McD to draft him..
McD HOPEFULLY ignores that request and drafts BPA.. high ceiling.

if Booker is there, they'll take him.
it's really sad

Yes, I don't like Booker because he is strictly a shooter. He doesn't have an all around game, and defensively is average at best. I think he can be a player like Brandon Rush or Anthony Morrow. ..not an starter but a decent bench player.
I would prefer Payne, Cauley-Stein, Stanley Jhonson or even Looney....all of them have upside and potential to be starters in this league.