Draft Thread: Who do you want with the 13th pick? Stanley Johnson and WCS added..change votes if you want

[bwgood77]

Definitely valid points from people who have never seen him outside of youtube videos, particularly when respected scouts see differently.

Oh, so you've seen him in person, right? You're not basing his athleticism based on his dunk mix, right? because he has not standing jump. He barely gets the ball above the rim when he pulls down an offensive board and puts it back. Where are his great in-game post ups where he gets great positioning in the post? I know he can do is against a stand-in at a workout, but I can do that to. Maybe I should be the 4th pick in the draft.

I haven't seen him "in person" because I don't travel to Europe, but yes I've seen his team play. In games. And in fact much of your criticisms are listed as direct strengths from scouts. So no, I'm not going to give you credit.

But really I should trust you 2 over the opinions of people who do it for a living due to your analysis based off of youtube. Have you sent in your resumes to McDonough yet? Hell, send it to Sarver. Why do we need McDonough when we have such scouting savants on here who can better judge talent in a youtube video than pro scouts who have been watching his GAMES for YEARS?

Doesn't DX show videos of strengths AND weaknesses? It's just tough knowing what these guys will turn into. But I have a hard time not liking a guy who his 7'2, with a 7'6 wingspan who can hit the 3 and blocked over a shot a game in 20 minutes when he finally got decent minutes. He will be a huge shot disrupter regardless.

[lilfishi22]

Unless the plan is to go after Danny Green, Booker is a great fit here. We have no knock down shooters on this team. The guy is the best shooter in the draft and has size. Then we go hard at LMA and Love.

I don't think he does enough and he only does one thing very well and that's shoot. We need more talent not singular skills

[AtheJ415]

Oh, so you've seen him in person, right? You're not basing his athleticism based on his dunk mix, right? because he has not standing jump. He barely gets the ball above the rim when he pulls down an offensive board and puts it back. Where are his great in-game post ups where he gets great positioning in the post? I know he can do is against a stand-in at a workout, but I can do that to. Maybe I should be the 4th pick in the draft.

I haven't seen him "in person" because I don't travel to Europe, but yes I've seen his team play. In games. And in fact much of your criticisms are listed as direct strengths from scouts. So no, I'm not going to give you credit.

But really I should trust you 2 over the opinions of people who do it for a living due to your analysis based off of youtube. Have you sent in your resumes to McDonough yet? Hell, send it to Sarver. Why do we need McDonough when we have such scouting savants on here who can better judge talent in a youtube video than pro scouts who have been watching his GAMES for YEARS?

Doesn't DX show videos of strengths AND weaknesses? It's just tough knowing what these guys will turn into. But I have a hard time not liking a guy who his 7'2, with a 7'6 wingspan who can hit the 3 and blocked over a shot a game in 20 minutes when he finally got decent minutes. He will be a huge shot disrupter regardless.

DX does, and that's my point. Many of the 2 on our board who hate Prozingis' criticisms are listed as strengths on DX, as well as basically every other scouting report I've read.

[AtheJ415]

Danny Green is putting up 7 threes a game. Ibaka is not a great shooter, he's a good one. Mirotic did not have a great shooting season. I'll ask you again, is Looney a great shooter, with great length and good mobility? Why isn't he a top 5 pick?

Ibaka is a great shooter for a stretch 4. To claim otherwise is being idiotic. Is he a great shooter overall compared to everyone in the NBA? No. Is he great for his position? Hell yes. Let's not try to say that positions don't matter here.

I'll ask you again, do you believe 6'9" is the same as 7'2"? Do you believe that 7'3" is the same as 7'6"? Their measurements aren't even in the same stratosphere. I've already said if Looney was 7'2" with a 7'6" wingspan, or showed the potential to become that massive, he would be a top pick. Like both of us know he's not.

Green averages 11 points per game on mostly perimeter shots as a 2 guard. Porzingis averages 11 points per game on fewer shots (9 per game) playing the stretch 4. Since Porzingis has no post game according to you, then go ahead and reconcile that for me. Green takes more 3s. He should. He's a 2 guard. Porzingis takes more mid-range to deep 2s. Their shooting percentages are 55/36/75 for KP, 42/46/87 for DG. If you can't be a great shooter unless you shoot a lot, then please reconcile those total FGA. Maybe you're under the impression that a great shooter should only be determined by 3 point FGA, but I think we all know 2s matter, particularly for a PF. Either way, to believe your premise is to believe that Danny Green can't be a great shooter because he takes less shots than Parker and others. It's just stupid logic. I guess Nash was a worse shooter than Amare.

I've never seen somebody in such a rush to claim a 7'2" PF who shoots 55% from 2, 36% from 3 and 75% from the line is not a great shooter. Literally never.

You're saying he's a stretch 4. Taking 2 threes a game is not a stretch 4. Love shot 5 threes, Anderson shot 6, Frye was shooting 5 for us. Volume+Accuracy=Great Shooter. Klay Thompson shot 44% on 7 3s a game, Luke Babbit shot 51% on 1.8 3s a game. Is Babbit a great shooter? Is he better than Thompson?

Is Looney a great shooter too? You still haven't answered that. I'd argue that he's a better rebounder than Porzingis, better passer, and better defender. And 7'3 is in the same ballpark as 7'6 and more importantly, the same as the defensive terror known as Kawhi Leonard. How has Porzingis shown to have more potential than Looney has?

I think Looney is a great shooter, and like I've said twice already which seems to be incapable of penetrating your thick skull, he is not 7'2" with a 7'6" wingspan. Accordingly, his potential is not as high as Porzingis's. If Looney was 7'2" with a 7'6" wingspan, or showed the capability to grow at will to become that size, I'd easily consider him a top pick. It's really not that hard to understand. Porzingis has a huge ceiling due to his unblockable shot (as attributed to his ability and size combined), and his athleticism. You, however, unlike any of the people who have watched him for years, have determined that all of those people are wrong. That he is not quick, that he is only a decent shooter who has a horseshoe shoved up his bum to magically hit the high percentages that he does, and that he isn't athletic--it's all a mirage that any big guy who jumps off of 2 feet could do, and which pro scouts apparently all have been fooled by.

So your definition of a great shooting PF who is his team's 3rd option at 19 is that he shoot as well as NBA 2 guards who are 25 and their teams' 2nd option. Got it. And those beliefs fit in line with all of your other theories too. If I shoot with my foot on the line, am I not stretching the floor? Just want to get all of the little ins and outs of the rules out of the way so you can paint a guy who has a good release and hits a high percentage of his shots as a bad shooter.

[MrMiyagi]

I haven't seen him "in person" because I don't travel to Europe, but yes I've seen his team play. In games. And in fact much of your criticisms are listed as direct strengths from scouts. So no, I'm not going to give you credit.

But really I should trust you 2 over the opinions of people who do it for a living due to your analysis based off of youtube. Have you sent in your resumes to McDonough yet? Hell, send it to Sarver. Why do we need McDonough when we have such scouting savants on here who can better judge talent in a youtube video than pro scouts who have been watching his GAMES for YEARS?

Doesn't DX show videos of strengths AND weaknesses? It's just tough knowing what these guys will turn into. But I have a hard time not liking a guy who his 7'2, with a 7'6 wingspan who can hit the 3 and blocked over a shot a game in 20 minutes when he finally got decent minutes. He will be a huge shot disrupter regardless.

DX does, and that's my point. Many of the 2 on our board who hate Prozingis' criticisms are listed as strengths on DX, as well as basically every other scouting report I've read.

DX lists his strengths as Physical Tools, Offensive Versatility and Upside. His weaknesses are Strength/Toughness, Feel for Game, and Fundamentals on D. Even in "Offensive Versatility" portion of their video breakdown, they remark how he gets bullied in the post. Sounds like a scouting report of Channing Frye. Is he really worth the 4th pick? Yes because his potential is higher than Snoop Dogg and Willie Nelson

[bwgood77]

Doesn't DX show videos of strengths AND weaknesses? It's just tough knowing what these guys will turn into. But I have a hard time not liking a guy who his 7'2, with a 7'6 wingspan who can hit the 3 and blocked over a shot a game in 20 minutes when he finally got decent minutes. He will be a huge shot disrupter regardless.

DX does, and that's my point. Many of the 2 on our board who hate Prozingis' criticisms are listed as strengths on DX, as well as basically every other scouting report I've read.

DX lists his strengths as Physical Tools, Offensive Versatility and Upside. His weaknesses are Strength/Toughness, Feel for Game, and Fundamentals on D. Even in "Offensive Versatility" portion of their video breakdown, they remark how he gets bullied in the post. Sounds like a scouting report of Channing Frye. Is he really worth the 4th pick? Yes because his potential is higher than Snoop Dogg and Willie Nelson

Would you rather have RHJ or Porzingis?

[lilfishi22]

DX does, and that's my point. Many of the 2 on our board who hate Prozingis' criticisms are listed as strengths on DX, as well as basically every other scouting report I've read.

DX lists his strengths as Physical Tools, Offensive Versatility and Upside. His weaknesses are Strength/Toughness, Feel for Game, and Fundamentals on D. Even in "Offensive Versatility" portion of their video breakdown, they remark how he gets bullied in the post. Sounds like a scouting report of Channing Frye. Is he really worth the 4th pick? Yes because his potential is higher than Snoop Dogg and Willie Nelson

Would you rather have RHJ or Porzingis?

Would that be at #4 or #13?

[DRK]

[

Would you rather have RHJ or Porzingis?

Out of context, but I would rather have Hezonja if I was an NBA GM. Dude is going to be a superstar. Gallinari with defence and superior athleticism.

[suns91fan]

Doesn't DX show videos of strengths AND weaknesses? It's just tough knowing what these guys will turn into. But I have a hard time not liking a guy who his 7'2, with a 7'6 wingspan who can hit the 3 and blocked over a shot a game in 20 minutes when he finally got decent minutes. He will be a huge shot disrupter regardless.

DX does, and that's my point. Many of the 2 on our board who hate Prozingis' criticisms are listed as strengths on DX, as well as basically every other scouting report I've read.

DX lists his strengths as Physical Tools, Offensive Versatility and Upside. His weaknesses are Strength/Toughness, Feel for Game, and Fundamentals on D. Even in "Offensive Versatility" portion of their video breakdown, they remark how he gets bullied in the post. Sounds like a scouting report of Channing Frye. Is he really worth the 4th pick? Yes because his potential is higher than Snoop Dogg and Willie Nelson

While i am completely indifferent about Porzingis, i don't think him being bullied is a major issue. He is a young kid playing vs guys who are far older and experienced than him. It's normal. Most of the NCAA prospects would have ended up the same if they played in Europe.

[bwgood77]

DX lists his strengths as Physical Tools, Offensive Versatility and Upside. His weaknesses are Strength/Toughness, Feel for Game, and Fundamentals on D. Even in "Offensive Versatility" portion of their video breakdown, they remark how he gets bullied in the post. Sounds like a scouting report of Channing Frye. Is he really worth the 4th pick? Yes because his potential is higher than Snoop Dogg and Willie Nelson

Would you rather have RHJ or Porzingis?

Would that be at #4 or #13?

Well in that question it was for wherever our pick was and if both were there. I was more curious about Miyagi because I know he is high on RHJ and low on Porzingis but anyone can chime in.

[bwgood77]

[

Would you rather have RHJ or Porzingis?

Out of context, but I would rather have Hezonja if I was an NBA GM. Dude is going to be a superstar. Gallinari with defence and superior athleticism.

Yes, me and another new poster actually agreed on our top 4 if we get the 4th pick. One of Towns, Porzingis, Russell or Hezonja....I think they all have star potential. Hezonja actually might have the most....I really like him.

[lilfishi22]

Would you rather have RHJ or Porzingis?

Would that be at #4 or #13?

Well in that question it was for wherever our pick was and if both were there. I was more curious about Miyagi because I know he is high on RHJ and low on Porzingis but anyone can chime in.

I wouldn't take either at #4 but at #13, I'd take Porzingis. His potential is good and you can take a risk at that stage of the draft. At #4, I'd want more of a sure thing than Porzingis

[StarMaker]

If WCS fall to 13th spot, we should get him. Kaminsky and Turner would be selected by the teams with higher picks than us.
I remember WCS defended well against power forwards. I think he really fits Suns.

[DRK]

[

Would you rather have RHJ or Porzingis?

Out of context, but I would rather have Hezonja if I was an NBA GM. Dude is going to be a superstar. Gallinari with defence and superior athleticism.

Yes, me and another new poster actually agreed on our top 4 if we get the 4th pick. One of Towns, Porzingis, Russell or Hezonja....I think they all have star potential. Hezonja actually might have the most....I really like him.

I actually have Hezonja at #2 on my Big Board. His mixture of athleticsm, shooting and attitude reminds me of a young European Kobe. Granted he's a project, but not a bad starting point

[MrMiyagi]

DX does, and that's my point. Many of the 2 on our board who hate Prozingis' criticisms are listed as strengths on DX, as well as basically every other scouting report I've read.

DX lists his strengths as Physical Tools, Offensive Versatility and Upside. His weaknesses are Strength/Toughness, Feel for Game, and Fundamentals on D. Even in "Offensive Versatility" portion of their video breakdown, they remark how he gets bullied in the post. Sounds like a scouting report of Channing Frye. Is he really worth the 4th pick? Yes because his potential is higher than Snoop Dogg and Willie Nelson

Would you rather have RHJ or Porzingis?

If we were drafting at 13 and Porzingis and Rondae are there, I'd pick Rondae. I know he'll guard 3 positions (Maybe 4), get some great highlight dunks in transition and work on the offensive boards. If he gets a jumpshot, that's gravy. Porzingis might become a good rim protector, might become a great shooter, might become a good post player, might become a Pterodactyl who can dunk from the 3 point line and battle The Brow for the next 10 years in the conference finals. Or he'll be Channing Frye. I'd draft Porzingis at 15-20.

[Dambo]

Would any website livestream tge draft for those who live abroad?

[bwgood77]

Would any website livestream tge draft for those who live abroad?

I'm sure ballstreams would have an HD feed if you wanted to join, or you could always try firstsports, but that is kind of a crapshoot with sometimes bad reception.

If you want to watch the whole season, or even subscribe for a short period. ballstreams is the way to go.

[MrMiyagi]

You're saying he's a stretch 4. Taking 2 threes a game is not a stretch 4. Love shot 5 threes, Anderson shot 6, Frye was shooting 5 for us. Volume+Accuracy=Great Shooter. Klay Thompson shot 44% on 7 3s a game, Luke Babbit shot 51% on 1.8 3s a game. Is Babbit a great shooter? Is he better than Thompson?

Is Looney a great shooter too? You still haven't answered that. I'd argue that he's a better rebounder than Porzingis, better passer, and better defender. And 7'3 is in the same ballpark as 7'6 and more importantly, the same as the defensive terror known as Kawhi Leonard. How has Porzingis shown to have more potential than Looney has?

I think Looney is a great shooter, and like I've said twice already which seems to be incapable of penetrating your thick skull, he is not 7'2" with a 7'6" wingspan. Accordingly, his potential is not as high as Porzingis's. If Looney was 7'2" with a 7'6" wingspan, or showed the capability to grow at will to become that size, I'd easily consider him a top pick. It's really not that hard to understand. Porzingis has a huge ceiling due to his unblockable shot (as attributed to his ability and size combined), and his athleticism. You, however, unlike any of the people who have watched him for years, have determined that all of those people are wrong. That he is not quick, that he is only a decent shooter who has a horseshoe shoved up his bum to magically hit the high percentages that he does, and that he isn't athletic--it's all a mirage that any big guy who jumps off of 2 feet could do, and which pro scouts apparently all have been fooled by.

So your definition of a great shooting PF who is his team's 3rd option at 19 is that he shoot as well as NBA 2 guards who are 25 and their teams' 2nd option. Got it. And those beliefs fit in line with all of your other theories too. If I shoot with my foot on the line, am I not stretching the floor? Just want to get all of the little ins and outs of the rules out of the way so you can paint a guy who has a good release and hits a high percentage of his shots as a bad shooter.

You've never said Looney is a great shooter until now, go check all of your old posts. You've talked about height and wingspan as literally the only 100% thing we know about Porzingis. As soon as Porzingis gets blocked in the NBA, you will receive a nanny-nanny-boo-boo from me. From the footage I've seen, he is not that quick, he is not that athletic and he is not that great of an offensive player. I would love to see him do drills agains Future NBA competition. I think you would quickly find out how not athletic he is. He is a decent shooter, he is not a great one. My whole argument has been, since the beginning, he is decent at a lot of things, but not remarkable at any of them. I never compared his shooting to anyone other than bigs. I compared Klay Thompson to Luke Babbit, not Porzingis to prove a point. VOLUME+ACCURACY=GREAT SHOOTER!

Love, Frye, and Anderson are great shooting stretch bigs. Ibaka is not. Porzingis is not yet. Neither is Kaminsky for that matter. They do not shoot it enough to make that claim, just a Babbit cannot claim to be a better shooter than Thompson. Seriously, you've just twisted whatever I say into something that it isn't and it's quite ridiculous.

[AtheJ415]

You're saying he's a stretch 4. Taking 2 threes a game is not a stretch 4. Love shot 5 threes, Anderson shot 6, Frye was shooting 5 for us. Volume+Accuracy=Great Shooter. Klay Thompson shot 44% on 7 3s a game, Luke Babbit shot 51% on 1.8 3s a game. Is Babbit a great shooter? Is he better than Thompson?

Is Looney a great shooter too? You still haven't answered that. I'd argue that he's a better rebounder than Porzingis, better passer, and better defender. And 7'3 is in the same ballpark as 7'6 and more importantly, the same as the defensive terror known as Kawhi Leonard. How has Porzingis shown to have more potential than Looney has?

I think Looney is a great shooter, and like I've said twice already which seems to be incapable of penetrating your thick skull, he is not 7'2" with a 7'6" wingspan. Accordingly, his potential is not as high as Porzingis's. If Looney was 7'2" with a 7'6" wingspan, or showed the capability to grow at will to become that size, I'd easily consider him a top pick. It's really not that hard to understand. Porzingis has a huge ceiling due to his unblockable shot (as attributed to his ability and size combined), and his athleticism. You, however, unlike any of the people who have watched him for years, have determined that all of those people are wrong. That he is not quick, that he is only a decent shooter who has a horseshoe shoved up his bum to magically hit the high percentages that he does, and that he isn't athletic--it's all a mirage that any big guy who jumps off of 2 feet could do, and which pro scouts apparently all have been fooled by.

So your definition of a great shooting PF who is his team's 3rd option at 19 is that he shoot as well as NBA 2 guards who are 25 and their teams' 2nd option. Got it. And those beliefs fit in line with all of your other theories too. If I shoot with my foot on the line, am I not stretching the floor? Just want to get all of the little ins and outs of the rules out of the way so you can paint a guy who has a good release and hits a high percentage of his shots as a bad shooter.

You've never said Looney is a great shooter until now, go check all of your old posts. You've talked about height and wingspan as literally the only 100% thing we know about Porzingis. As soon as Porzingis gets blocked in the NBA, you will receive a nanny-nanny-boo-boo from me. From the footage I've seen, he is not that quick, he is not that athletic and he is not that great of an offensive player. I would love to see him do drills agains Future NBA competition. I think you would quickly find out how not athletic he is. He is a decent shooter, he is not a great one. My whole argument has been, since the beginning, he is decent at a lot of things, but not remarkable at any of them. I never compared his shooting to anyone other than bigs. I compared Klay Thompson to Luke Babbit, not Porzingis to prove a point. VOLUME+ACCURACY=GREAT SHOOTER!

Love, Frye, and Anderson are great shooting stretch bigs. Ibaka is not. Porzingis is not yet. Neither is Kaminsky for that matter. They do not shoot it enough to make that claim, just a Babbit cannot claim to be a better shooter than Thompson. Seriously, you've just twisted whatever I say into something that it isn't and it's quite ridiculous.

Yes I have. In this thread. In fact, Looney is one of my selections on this very poll. And so you admit that you think there isn't a single PF who is a great shooter for the PF position in this entire draft? Fine then. Either way you asked me what Porzingis does better than others, and he shoots the 3 better than any PF in this draft not named Kaminsky, and his shot is the most unblockable in the entire god damned draft. Seriously though, have you started your own draft site yet? GM's need to know that Porzingis is slow and unathletic and not a great shooter. Somebody should tell them, because every other scout is saying the opposite.

[MrMiyagi]

I think Looney is a great shooter, and like I've said twice already which seems to be incapable of penetrating your thick skull, he is not 7'2" with a 7'6" wingspan. Accordingly, his potential is not as high as Porzingis's. If Looney was 7'2" with a 7'6" wingspan, or showed the capability to grow at will to become that size, I'd easily consider him a top pick. It's really not that hard to understand. Porzingis has a huge ceiling due to his unblockable shot (as attributed to his ability and size combined), and his athleticism. You, however, unlike any of the people who have watched him for years, have determined that all of those people are wrong. That he is not quick, that he is only a decent shooter who has a horseshoe shoved up his bum to magically hit the high percentages that he does, and that he isn't athletic--it's all a mirage that any big guy who jumps off of 2 feet could do, and which pro scouts apparently all have been fooled by.

So your definition of a great shooting PF who is his team's 3rd option at 19 is that he shoot as well as NBA 2 guards who are 25 and their teams' 2nd option. Got it. And those beliefs fit in line with all of your other theories too. If I shoot with my foot on the line, am I not stretching the floor? Just want to get all of the little ins and outs of the rules out of the way so you can paint a guy who has a good release and hits a high percentage of his shots as a bad shooter.

You've never said Looney is a great shooter until now, go check all of your old posts. You've talked about height and wingspan as literally the only 100% thing we know about Porzingis. As soon as Porzingis gets blocked in the NBA, you will receive a nanny-nanny-boo-boo from me. From the footage I've seen, he is not that quick, he is not that athletic and he is not that great of an offensive player. I would love to see him do drills agains Future NBA competition. I think you would quickly find out how not athletic he is. He is a decent shooter, he is not a great one. My whole argument has been, since the beginning, he is decent at a lot of things, but not remarkable at any of them. I never compared his shooting to anyone other than bigs. I compared Klay Thompson to Luke Babbit, not Porzingis to prove a point. VOLUME+ACCURACY=GREAT SHOOTER!

Love, Frye, and Anderson are great shooting stretch bigs. Ibaka is not. Porzingis is not yet. Neither is Kaminsky for that matter. They do not shoot it enough to make that claim, just a Babbit cannot claim to be a better shooter than Thompson. Seriously, you've just twisted whatever I say into something that it isn't and it's quite ridiculous.

Yes I have. In this thread. In fact, Looney is one of my selections on this very poll. And so you admit that you think there isn't a single PF who is a great shooter for the PF position in this entire draft? Fine then. Either way you asked me what Porzingis does better than others, and he shoots the 3 better than any PF in this draft not named Kaminsky, and his shot is the most unblockable in the entire god damned draft. Seriously though, have you started your own draft site yet? GM's need to know that Porzingis is slow and unathletic and not a great shooter. Somebody should tell them, because every other scout is saying the opposite.

You take me saying he's not great or excellent as meaning he is horrible, and he's not, and I've never said that. Goodbye.