Game 13: Phoenix Suns (7-5) @ New Orleans Pelicans (3-11)

[bwgood77]

Bw, I think you're forgetting that Colangelo racked up a $200 million debt. It would be tough for him to still be the owner of the team, when he was hemorrhaging that kind of cash.

Oh, I didn't say he could continue being owner. He definitely put himself in that situation. I just think in general, many who grew up with Colangelo bringing the Suns to Phx and all that...most all that history is just gone, which hurts fan support...at least from the older fans. It doesn't hurt mine for example, but I know my dad who used to really be interested in the Suns, has little to no interest any more.

I've been following them since 78. Changing of the guard hasn't hurt my love for them. I wear a Suns shirt, hat, or some other gear almost every day of the year.

And I moved from New York in 77.

It hasn't hurt mine either, but I think for many fans it does, and for those who followed them from when they first arrived, it hurts worse. When Colangelo was gone, Nash was the face of the franchise, and you had some players people knew and loved like Marion and Amare, but when Nash left, any history many fans knew was gone. The thing is, for die hard fans, it doesn't matter but the Suns have had mostly casual fans over the years, and for many of them, the love won't come back until we have the same group of players, coaches, front office, etc, and they show some success. Few teams with churning rosters and coaches have a huge die hard fan following.

[RunDogGun]

We will be better. We just lack consistency. It would really help if the league would stop its practice of changing the rules for star players.

[sunskerr]

We're of course still on the right path. I think we're a similar level to pre-Dwight Rockets i.e. ~40ish wins and we absolutely need to make the playoffs to make a good impression around the league for free agency.

[MrMiyagi]

Well we have observed this team not make the playoffs in 5 years, that is about as mediocre as you can get. All indications this year so far (though its early) is we will play really good one night and poor another night, we lack the consistency the better teams in the NBA have. But I wasn't expecting big things from us anyways.

That's not empirical data.......

I take it you've never taken a science course in college? Empirical evidence is based on....OBSERVATION.

What have we observed about this team within the last 5 years?

You wouldn't use previous observations of mercury and apply it to steel. You'd observe the steel. What is your proof from this group

[Funky Tut]

That's not empirical data.......

I take it you've never taken a science course in college? Empirical evidence is based on....OBSERVATION.

What have we observed about this team within the last 5 years?

You wouldn't use previous observations of mercury and apply it to steel. You'd observe the steel. What is your proof from this group

My proof is observational over the last 5 seasons, we have been mediocre, the data is obvious. What have you seen so far this year that shows us that we are capable of making a deep playoff push? What has deviated from the norm?

[MrMiyagi]

I take it you've never taken a science course in college? Empirical evidence is based on....OBSERVATION.

What have we observed about this team within the last 5 years?

You wouldn't use previous observations of mercury and apply it to steel. You'd observe the steel. What is your proof from this group

My proof is observational over the last 5 seasons, we have been mediocre, the data is obvious. What have you seen so far this year that shows us that we are capable of making a deep playoff push? What has deviated from the norm?

You're right, Zabian Dowdell, Josh Childress, Hedo Turkoglu, Hakeem Warrick and Jason Richardson are the reason we can't make a playoff push this season.

I honestly don't think you've even been watching this team for the past 5 seasons. This is obviously, without a doubt the best team we've had, and we only have 5 players on the roster born before 1989, and only 2 of those guys average more than 20 minutes a game. If you're looking for a championship this season, you're a fool, but if you're looking for a team that is going to improve and start becoming a playoff team than it should be easy to see that this squad is primed for that.

[Revived]

Man we gotta start winning these type of games.

New Orleans is a garbage team so far and will likely be until Evans returns, we can't already start losing to them if playoffs is the goal.

Suns are barely above .500 despite having one of the easiest schedules in the league so far. Not very encouraging. If we can only beat bad teams (and not even do that properly as evidenced by tonight) then our chances at playoffs will be looking slim.

[nevetsov]

Disappointed in Hornacek in this one. Understood his strategy of playing 5 shooters (e.g. no Len/ Chandler, running with Mirza/ Leuer/ Keef at C) in an attempt to drag Davis out of the key defensively so Bled and BK (our hot hands lately) can get to the rim, however:

1) You roll the dice on offense if BK/ Bled aren't on/ slashing (BK was off the first half), OR our bigs aren't being respected on the perimeter (which was the case early).

2) Anything you do gain on offense, you give up defensively in the paint without Chandler/ Len. We gave up way too many layups and second chance points. No way NOLA should drop 122 points on you and i'm convinced that wouldn't have been the case with a rim protector.

2A) Case in point, Ish Smith driving the length of the court with 4.4 seconds left after a break in play - how can you not put a big man under the rim in that scenario??

3) This is a young team that is still trying to find consistency. You get that through repetition - coaching and playing the same way, running the same sets and developing what works for you. We're not yet equipped to adjust on the fly - case in point, when Bled was out and the rotation changed, we lost our groove. We need to embed our style of play in our young guys even if it means losing a game here and there, if we do it playing our game.

3A) You don't change your rotation/ style of play and try to get creative against a 2-11 team. You have faith in your coaching style and force the 2-11 team to adjust to your game.

In my opinion, Horny turned this one into a shootout by playing small. We went away from what has worked for us (our top 10 defense) with the intent of boosting our offensive game. It wasn't necessary and we opened the door for a dangerous team to steal a win, which they did.

Hopefully we take that away from this one and we see our own style more the next time we play them.

[MrMiyagi]

Disappointed in Hornacek in this one. Understood his strategy of playing 5 shooters (e.g. no Len/ Chandler, running with Mirza/ Leuer/ Keef at C) in an attempt to drag Davis out of the key defensively so Bled and BK (our hot hands lately) can get to the rim, however:

1) You roll the dice on offense if BK/ Bled aren't on/ slashing (BK was off the first half), OR our bigs aren't being respected on the perimeter (which was the case early).

2) Anything you do gain on offense, you give up defensively in the paint without Chandler/ Len. We gave up way too many layups and second chance points. No way NOLA should drop 122 points on you and i'm convinced that wouldn't have been the case with a rim protector.

2A) Case in point, Ish Smith driving the length of the court with 4.4 seconds left after a break in play - how can you not put a big man under the rim in that scenario??

3) This is a young team that is still trying to find consistency. You get that through repetition - coaching and playing the same way, running the same sets and developing what works for you. We're not yet equipped to adjust on the fly - case in point, when Bled was out and the rotation changed, we lost our groove. We need to embed our style of play in our young guys even if it means losing a game here and there, if we do it playing our game.

3A) You don't change your rotation/ style of play and try to get creative against a 2-11 team. You have faith in your coaching style and force the 2-11 team to adjust to your game.

In my opinion, Horny turned this one into a shootout by playing small. We went away from what has worked for us (our top 10 defense) with the intent of boosting our offensive game. It wasn't necessary and we opened the door for a dangerous team to steal a win, which they did.

Hopefully we take that away from this one and we see our own style more the next time we play them.

Good post, would and1, but it isn't working for me.

[NTB]

This team is definitely better than last 2 season.

[NTB]

Hey have anyboydy seen this?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/EBled2/status/668609500731957249[/tweet]

[Jdiddy701]

Archie Goodwin on Twitter, "locked in a cage."

I hate that guy.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Saberestar]

[quote="NTB"]This team is definitely better than last 2 season.[/quote]

Ummm...I hope so. But at the end of the day the only thing that matters are the numbers.
If we finish 41W - 41L this would not be our best team in the last few years.
We need to win at least 48.

[thamadkant]

2 losses in a row.
Sure.. Opponents got tougher... But the team also lost some identity that they were displaying prior.


What happened to the defense focus?

Go small ball and try to outshoot a Gentry/SSOL apprenticr coached team?

Pelicans were 2 and 11 because teams exploit their weakness...instesd Hornacek played into their strength.

[thamadkant]

Archie Goodwin on Twitter, "locked in a cage."

I hate that guy.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Why?
Thats a dig to Hornacek, and rightfully so judging by the records of the last 2 games.

The two games he played tiny to no minutes the Suns have lost.

The two games he has played 20 plus minutes he has averaged 12ppg 5rpg 2apg and the team looked better. Not to mention Knight has been on fire.

[Saberestar]

Bledsoe played the second half with a sore left knee. He said he collided with Alonzo Gee at the end of the first half and pulled himself in the first minute of the second half when it continued to feel sore.

I don't know if he is gonna play tonigh, hopefully it is not a big deal.

[Saberestar]

2 losses in a row.
Sure.. Opponents got tougher... But the team also lost some identity that they were displaying prior.


What happened to the defense focus?

Go small ball and try to outshoot a Gentry/SSOL apprenticr coached team?

Pelicans were 2 and 11 because teams exploit their weakness...instesd Hornacek played into their strength.

We haven't lost at San Antonio yet....wait a day please.

[Grots]

positives: Booker is shooting 80% from 3, TJ's shooting 43% from 3 now

If only Archie could play PG effectively, that bench squad would be a lot of fun to watch.

[spanishninja]

This team is definitely better than last 2 season.

Ummm...I hope so. But at the end of the day the only thing that matters are the numbers.
If we finish 41W - 41L this would not be our best team in the last few years.
We need to win at least 48.

This is not necessarily true. When you think about how much more balanced the West is now than two seasons ago, it is entirely possible for us to be a better team than our 48-win season and yet not win as many games, simply because garbage teams from that season have also improved (Minnesota, Utah for example).

[jcsunsfan]

Archie Goodwin on Twitter, "locked in a cage."

I hate that guy.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Why?
Thats a dig to Hornacek, and rightfully so judging by the records of the last 2 games.

The two games he played tiny to no minutes the Suns have lost.

The two games he has played 20 plus minutes he has averaged 12ppg 5rpg 2apg and the team looked better. Not to mention Knight has been on fire.

Archie is not the difference in those games, Markieff is.