Game 36: Phoenix Suns (12-23) @ Sacramento Kings (12-20)

[letsgosuns]

People can debate whatever they want about the players on this team but the bottom line is that they are a bad team. Not much else to say. This is not a good team. In addition, it appears they have given up on the coach. It seemed like they had quite a few games ago but the front office refuses to do what is necessary. My biggest concern is what this organization is going to do in the future. I do not trust they will make the right moves. They certainly have not proven they are capable of putting a good team together.

[JohnWall2]

You all know BIGS take more time to develop, right? He'll be fine in a couple years. Some of you sound like the Grizz fans when Gasol was just starting out and they wanted him gone.

He's on the verge of becoming a lost cause. Heck I'd take Olynk and Adams over him at this point. Best case scenario for Len: He learns to avoid foul trouble to average close to a double double. So maybe he can become Valanciunas without the nimble feet.

Steve Adams is far superior to Len. It's not even close.

[saintEscaton]

You all know BIGS take more time to develop, right? He'll be fine in a couple years. Some of you sound like the Grizz fans when Gasol was just starting out and they wanted him gone.

He's on the verge of becoming a lost cause. Heck I'd take Olynk and Adams over him at this point. Best case scenario for Len: He learns to avoid foul trouble to average close to a double double. So maybe he can become Valanciunas without the nimble feet.

Steve Adams is far superior to Len. It's not even close.

Yeah draft position doesn't mean squat. Adams has supplanted an overpaid Kanter for the starting job on a contender. Len is a project big who's low ceiling isn't worth the investment. We already picked up his fourth year option though

[JohnWall2]

He's on the verge of becoming a lost cause. Heck I'd take Olynk and Adams over him at this point. Best case scenario for Len: He learns to avoid foul trouble to average close to a double double. So maybe he can become Valanciunas without the nimble feet.

Steve Adams is far superior to Len. It's not even close.

Yeah draft position doesn't mean squat. Adams has supplanted an overpaid Kanter for the starting job on a contender. Len is a project big who's low ceiling isn't worth the investment. We already picked up his fourth year option though

Yeah bro I was always pissed when we took him at 5........and he's done absolutely nothing to change my opinion on that either. He's a slow, lumbering, unskilled oaf.

[AtheJ415]

I'll just say this, we can complain all day about the hand Hornacek has been dealt, but can anybody honestly say that GIVEN the bad hand he was dealt, he has put this team in the best chance to win games? I can't possibly believe there's anybody out there who isn't a Hornacek family member who would say that answer is yes. He's a nice guy, but like Longabardi, he deserves to be fired. I do want us to keep losing, but I'd like to see some semblance of improvement for our young guys aside from the improvement that simply comes from increased playing time.

[Puff]

Some fans might not realize this but what is happening right now is the best thing that could happen to this organization.

Having a top pick in the draft does one of two things. It allows you to either draft a player with star potential (obviously) or use the pick to trade for a superstar. Everyone keeps saying the team is desperate for a superstar. Well a top three pick is the kind of asset that gets it done in today's NBA. I do not think the Suns would trade their pick this year but it is a possibility.

Hopefully we do not draft another Alex Len.

This guy has been a huge bust so far. I am tired of hearing that he is a keeper by many fans.

Why???????????????????????????????????????? He either sucks or he is hurt and sucks.

I have been a McDonough supporter but he has made two of the worst moves ever, IMO.

1. Draft Alex Len
2. Trade the Laker pick for Brandon Knight.

I say fire eveyone and bring back D'Antoni and Bryan Colangelo. There I said it. I don't give a crap who thinks it is a dumb idea. It is the last time this franchise had a GM and coach that had a clue. Yeah they certianly were not perfect but they were pretty damn good.

If it was not for our moronic owner they could both still be here. It was just horrible that all they could do was get us to the WCF, while being wildly entertaining. The great Robert Sarver did not want to pay BC and thought he knew more about coaching than D'Antoni. Hell Sarver is buying soccer teams with Nash. Offer him the coaches job and bring back D'Antoni and BC to work with him. Babby should not be allowed to give any advice to anyone.

What a freaking nightmare this franchise has become.

[AtheJ415]

Steve Adams is far superior to Len. It's not even close.

Yeah draft position doesn't mean squat. Adams has supplanted an overpaid Kanter for the starting job on a contender. Len is a project big who's low ceiling isn't worth the investment. We already picked up his fourth year option though

Yeah bro I was always pissed when we took him at 5........and he's done absolutely nothing to change my opinion on that either. He's a slow, lumbering, unskilled oaf.

He's not slow and he's not low-ceiling. You can think he sucks, but at least think that for the right reasons. I mean, how athletic do you think 7 footers out there are?

[AtheJ415]

Some fans might not realize this but what is happening right now is the best thing that could happen to this organization.

Having a top pick in the draft does one of two things. It allows you to either draft a player with star potential (obviously) or use the pick to trade for a superstar. Everyone keeps saying the team is desperate for a superstar. Well a top three pick is the kind of asset that gets it done in today's NBA. I do not think the Suns would trade their pick this year but it is a possibility.

Hopefully we do not draft another Alex Len.

This guy has been a huge bust so far. I am tired of hearing that he is a keeper by many fans.

Why???????????????????????????????????????? He either sucks or he is hurt and sucks.

I have been a McDonough supporter but he has made two of the worst moves ever, IMO.

1. Draft Alex Len
2. Trade the Laker pick for Brandon Knight.

I say fire eveyone and bring back D'Antoni and Bryan Colangelo. There I said it. I don't give a crap who thinks it is a dumb idea. It is the last time this franchise had a GM and coach that had a clue. Yeah they certianly were not perfect but they were pretty damn good.

If it was not for our moronic owner they could both still be here. It was just horrible that all they could do was get us to the WCF, while being wildly entertaining. The great Robert Sarver did not want to pay BC and thought he knew more about coaching than D'Antoni. Hell Sarver is buying soccer teams with Nash. Offer him the coaches job and bring back D'Antoni and BC to work with him. Babby should not be allowed to give any advice to anyone.

What a freaking nightmare this franchise has become.

Yup. I'm taking a break from this site. Go look at that draft Len was in.

[JohnWall2]

Yeah draft position doesn't mean squat. Adams has supplanted an overpaid Kanter for the starting job on a contender. Len is a project big who's low ceiling isn't worth the investment. We already picked up his fourth year option though

Yeah bro I was always pissed when we took him at 5........and he's done absolutely nothing to change my opinion on that either. He's a slow, lumbering, unskilled oaf.

He's not slow and he's not low-ceiling. You can think he sucks, but at least think that for the right reasons. I mean, how athletic do you think 7 footers out there are?

What are you talking about? There are some pretty athletic 7 footers out there, young Tyson was one and Steve Adams is another. I get that you obviously rate Len, what has he shown you so far to have this opinion of him that he is not low-ceiling?

[AtheJ415]

Yeah bro I was always pissed when we took him at 5........and he's done absolutely nothing to change my opinion on that either. He's a slow, lumbering, unskilled oaf.

He's not slow and he's not low-ceiling. You can think he sucks, but at least think that for the right reasons. I mean, how athletic do you think 7 footers out there are?

What are you talking about? There are some pretty athletic 7 footers out there, young Tyson was one and Steve Adams is another. I get that you obviously rate Len, what has he shown you so far to have this opinion of him that he is not low-ceiling?

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbn5U7aI2Ng
[/url]

http://archive.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/20130627phoenix-suns-alex-len-nba-draft.html

http://hoopshabit.com/2015/01/17/phoenix-suns-alex-len-developing-franchise-center/

I mean, I can find about 30 scouting reports on google alone that cite his major upside. Those are just the 3 first ones on my google search. And most go to his athleticism, size, and coordination, which allows for development of shooting, post moves, etc..

Hell, even Tyson and Tim Duncan like his potential upside.

The draft express video: Strengths: Physical tools (players with is size, length, frame, and athleticism are rare. A lot of value in an agile 7-1 C with a great frame, skill, & potential as a defender/rebounder. Also list defensive potential, offensive skill set, and major upside as his strengths.

I get that you hate Len. He's frustratingly inconsistent, but he has more tools than almost all of the other 22 year old centers out there.

[saintEscaton]

Yeah draft position doesn't mean squat. Adams has supplanted an overpaid Kanter for the starting job on a contender. Len is a project big who's low ceiling isn't worth the investment. We already picked up his fourth year option though

Yeah bro I was always pissed when we took him at 5........and he's done absolutely nothing to change my opinion on that either. He's a slow, lumbering, unskilled oaf.

He's not slow and he's not low-ceiling. You can think he sucks, but at least think that for the right reasons. I mean, how athletic do you think 7 footers out there are?

Its safe that he may never develop a feel for the game. You can extropolate Per 36 numbers to paint a rosy picture but if he can't stay out of foul trouble to get consistent minutes he is going to be relegated to the bench. It was hillarious when posters thought he would take after Timmy D under his tutelage. He will never become a focal point of an offense, develop a post presence or at the elbows/back to the basket repertoire. Still needs to show that he can consistently nail the faceup midrange J.He will have to live off of putbacks and garbage baskets created by dribble penetration and has yet to flash as a rolling finisher(okay sure our guards can't execute the pocket pass). He hardly even alters shots anymore and still bites on pump fakes and mindlessly hacks at ballhandlers aiming for a strip. He needs to learn that there is more to interior defense than vertically contesting everything in the paint at the highest point. His DBPM and DWS has also taken a hit from last season. Best case scenario is he sorts the issues that prevent him from being on the court and averages near a double double. A rich man's RLopez/ more athletic Valanciunas without the nimble feet

[Puff]

Some fans might not realize this but what is happening right now is the best thing that could happen to this organization.

Having a top pick in the draft does one of two things. It allows you to either draft a player with star potential (obviously) or use the pick to trade for a superstar. Everyone keeps saying the team is desperate for a superstar. Well a top three pick is the kind of asset that gets it done in today's NBA. I do not think the Suns would trade their pick this year but it is a possibility.

Hopefully we do not draft another Alex Len.

This guy has been a huge bust so far. I am tired of hearing that he is a keeper by many fans.

Why???????????????????????????????????????? He either sucks or he is hurt and sucks.

I have been a McDonough supporter but he has made two of the worst moves ever, IMO.

1. Draft Alex Len
2. Trade the Laker pick for Brandon Knight.

I say fire eveyone and bring back D'Antoni and Bryan Colangelo. There I said it. I don't give a crap who thinks it is a dumb idea. It is the last time this franchise had a GM and coach that had a clue. Yeah they certianly were not perfect but they were pretty damn good.

If it was not for our moronic owner they could both still be here. It was just horrible that all they could do was get us to the WCF, while being wildly entertaining. The great Robert Sarver did not want to pay BC and thought he knew more about coaching than D'Antoni. Hell Sarver is buying soccer teams with Nash. Offer him the coaches job and bring back D'Antoni and BC to work with him. Babby should not be allowed to give any advice to anyone.

What a freaking nightmare this franchise has become.

Yup. I'm taking a break from this site. Go look at that draft Len was in.

That draft was quite possibly one of the worst in history. However Len had bad wheels prior to drafting him and he really has shown little or no improvement in three years. He showed flashes last year but IMO he has regressed badly this year. Maybe it is not him and that is why I expect that Hornacek will be fired at some point this season. I really do not know one player that has impoved their play since Horny became coach,

[Kerrsed]

He's on the verge of becoming a lost cause. Heck I'd take Olynk and Adams over him at this point. Best case scenario for Len: He learns to avoid foul trouble to average close to a double double. So maybe he can become Valanciunas without the nimble feet.

Steve Adams is far superior to Len. It's not even close.

Yeah draft position doesn't mean squat. Adams has supplanted an overpaid Kanter for the starting job on a contender. Len is a project big who's low ceiling isn't worth the investment. We already picked up his fourth year option though

To be fair, Adams passed Kanter due to fit. Kanter can score 20 points easy and can rebound at an astounding rate, but with Westbrook and Durant, they dont need that, the need more of a defensive presence, which Adams provides. Kanter is currently being used as a scoring punch off the bench with the 2nd unit. It has no bearing on the question of who is the better player between the two.

[Kerrsed]

It does take bigs longer to develop than guards, but still it sucks seeing Len regress so much. Like the years we spent developing him and when he is in the game he looks pretty much like he did when we first got him. Its like he is back at square one all over again, but now with a few more injuys.

[AtheJ415]

Yeah bro I was always pissed when we took him at 5........and he's done absolutely nothing to change my opinion on that either. He's a slow, lumbering, unskilled oaf.

He's not slow and he's not low-ceiling. You can think he sucks, but at least think that for the right reasons. I mean, how athletic do you think 7 footers out there are?

Its safe that he may never develop a feel for the game. You can extropolate Per 36 numbers to paint a rosy picture but if he can't stay out of foul trouble to get consistent minutes he is going to be relegated to the bench. It was hillarious when posters thought he would take after Timmy D under his tutelage. He will never become a focal point of an offense, develop a post presence or at the elbows/back to the basket repertoire. Still needs to show that he can consistently nail the faceup midrange J.He will have to live off of putbacks and garbage baskets created by dribble penetration and has yet to flash as a rolling finisher(okay sure our guards can't execute the pocket pass). He hardly even alters shots anymore and still bites on pump fakes and mindlessly hacks at ballhandlers aiming for a strip. He needs to learn that there is more to interior defense than vertically contesting everything in the paint at the highest point. His DBPM and DWS has also taken a hit from last season. Best case scenario is he sorts the issues that prevent him from being on the court and averages near a double double. A rich man's RLopez/ more athletic Valanciunas without the nimble feet

I mean, his DWS will go down this year because we're winning less and the team overall isn't defending. I actually think he's one of our strong points defensively this year. His DBPM is 1.6 and DRtg is 103, which is very good given our team's play.

I agree though that he still needs a lot of development and he fouls way too often, committing some stupid mistakes, but the potential is still there. I'd like to see what he can do with a team that uses him properly. I don't think we put him in the best position to have success, which I feel is a common theme across all of our players except maybe PJ Tucker. Tucker is the only guy I see being used correctly because he gets asked to defend, is put on the top offensive players, and stands in the corner for 3s because he can't do much else offensively. Everyone else I think is misused on offense.

[bwgood77]

If anyone ever compares Booker to Reddick again.............

Yeah, I think Booker has far more potential than Redick. He will be far better in the long run.

[bwgood77]

It does take bigs longer to develop than guards, but still it sucks seeing Len regress so much. Like the years we spent developing him and when he is in the game he looks pretty much like he did when we first got him. Its like he is back at square one all over again, but now with a few more injuys.

Agreed, I mean look how long it took Tyson Chandler to develop. I think at the same age he wasn't doing much, and he didn't really get better until he had been in the league past his rookie contract.

It's funny, Len had a great game like 5-7 games ago or so and everyone was high on him. Now he suddenly sucks. Then you have quite a few people saying trade everyone but Booker after Warren disappeared for awhile, and then Warren breaks out, and everyone is back to being crazy high on him.

These young guys are going to have their ups and downs. No one projected Gobert to go high, so a bunch of teams missed on him. I think Dieng was much older, and Noel didn't get approved by our medical staff, so that would concern me.

I think you hold on to Len into his second contract, and then if we need to deal him, he will probably not be that hard to deal.

[bwgood77]

That draft was quite possibly one of the worst in history. However Len had bad wheels prior to drafting him and he really has shown little or no improvement in three years. He showed flashes last year but IMO he has regressed badly this year. Maybe it is not him and that is why I expect that Hornacek will be fired at some point this season. I really do not know one player that has impoved their play since Horny became coach,

Plumlee, Green, Tucker, Markieff, Bledsoe, Dragic (3rd team all nba)....there are a few. Warren has improved a great deal, and I think Len has as well.

[rsavaj]

Len plays well = Len is a star in the making
Len plays poorly = Len is a lost cause

So the cycle continues

[thamadkant]

People giving up on Len are missing the point.

Chandler former DPOY and just a top 5 defensive center last year is playing like crapon the Suns.


This is not on the players but the coaching and system structure.