2016-17 Phoenix Suns Preseason Thread

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Bashing Knight for chucking with the backups... m'fer, that's his job. That's what coach wants. It's also the best way to use him. Every time he's come off the bench in the first, he's provided a punch. He's played well! And he's connected with alleyoops to Chriss on a few occasions now - so at least now we know he can lob the ball. Bled's turnovers are also way down, because he's not forcing anything. Their turnovers were out biggest weakness last season, and that problem appears to be solved.

And the comments about Bender becoming our new whipping boy... what?? I get the impression that some people think he's played poorly. Are you guys watching the games? He's been a plus defender - interior and perimeter! - and on the offensive end, he's within the flow of the offense, keeping turnovers low, facilitating, spreading the floor, driving... For all the credit Chriss has gotten (well-deserved; he's impressive), I'm fairly confident that Bender has the better +/-, because he's not the foul-and-turnover machine Chriss is at this stage.

Other notes (don't want to make a new post):
- I like the new Bled. Not forcing anything, becoming much more efficient.
- Our defense is night and day from prior seasons. We are physical. The biggest improvement is Warren. Awesome.
- Warren has been missing all his mid-range jumpers and a lot of bunnies as well. Not at all like the TJ we can expect to see. You can also see he's taller and stronger - looks about as big as Chriss. I look forward to him getting on track with that J.
- Nice to see Len win a center matchup. As far as his lack of blocks is concerned, he may not have great instincts, but I think the bigger reason he's not getting blocks is because the scouting report on him is simple - settle for the short jumper; don't try to take it to him. He doesn't have the girth to keep you out of the paint if he gets to close defensively, so he keeps his distance, and players take the short shot.
- What is Tyson's personal issue? Is this "smoke", as they say? Probably not.
- Bender and Chriss can play NOW. I don't see the benefit of having PJ back in the rotation. I think we should move him and let the kids play.
- Philly has a ton of bigs deserving of PT with the emergence of Richaun Holmes and now Shawn Long. We don't really have anything to offer that I'm willing to give up, other than perhaps the long-discussed Noel/Knight exchange. Problem there is - we can't extend both Len and Noel. Same draft class, same position, both want to start. Len got punked by Gobert, but would Noel do much better? I'd consider Knight for Holmes + SAC pick.

[NTB]

Watch on YouTube

[NavLDO]

Spoiler:

His best smiles on the internet:





And the only one on the internet with much emotion:

Eesh..i guess now we know why he doesnt smile in pictures

Oof...no kidding. It's like he's forcing it against some deep-seated hatred he's holding back inside!

Yeah, he needs to stick to his "I'm a baaaaaaaad man," serious face.

[NavLDO]

Is this year gonna be another ridiculous Knight bashing fest?

You are long enough here to know the answer. Knight would have to start playing at an MVP level to get any credit at all. People have made up their opinions and they see what they want to see.

If you don't mind, Gaspar, my sharing in your sentiment, thought broadened out to other players on the team, that I posted on the last page of the Game 2 thread....

This fanbase has become:

-- a "yay" for all things Bledsoe, Booker, and or rookies (until next season, then at least one will fall out of favor)

-- a "wait-n-see" for TJ, Williams, Jenkins, Barbosa, and Dudley

-- and a 'BOOOO...' for all things Len, Knight, Goodwin, and Tucker. These four can do no right in the eyes of over half the fanbase on this forum.

So, there you go, BW...I'm stepping into my role again as "Defender of the Down-Trodden Suns!"

But yes, I agree. Minds have been made up on several players on our team, and it would take a season's worth of play to the opposite to get some fans to change their mind a little bit--Len, Knight, Tucker and Goodwin are as good as MUD, and Bledsoe, Booker, and the rookies are all infallible.

And please, I'm not saying every fan here is like this, but there are a sorted few, who know who they are, have these opinions of our players, and there is no changing their mind.

For me, I'm really EXCITED FOR Booker, TJ, Len, Alan Williams and our rookies and their continued development, and I cautiously optimistic that Bledsoe, Knight, Dudley, Barbosa, Tucker and the rest will help provide guidance for our young'ns and production for the team. I haven't given up on anyone, but I admit there are a few I question if they will help--Knight, Chandler, and Barbosa--or ultimately, just will not provide us much, but I certainly do not think any of these guys flat out 'suck'. Maybe my mind would change if I saw more live games, IDK, but even watching all he SL games, I didn't think anyone flat out STUNK; there were just some that showed a lot, and others that showed little, is all.

[ATTL]

I'm not excited for the prospect of paying Len 13-16 million per year.
I don't believe Goodwin will be back after this year and at this point it seems hes behind Ulis in the rotation.
Knight will be an amazing bench player for us as long as his pride doesn't make him cause a disruption.

[TeamTragic]

I'm not excited for the prospect of paying Len 13-16 million per year.
I don't believe Goodwin will be back after this year and at this point it seems hes behind Ulis in the rotation.
Knight will be an amazing bench player for us as long as his pride doesn't make him cause a disruption.

Agreed. Giving Len that contract would be stupid. Knight doesn't want to come off the bench. That is obvious at this point.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I'm not excited for the prospect of paying Len 13-16 million per year.
I don't believe Goodwin will be back after this year and at this point it seems hes behind Ulis in the rotation.
Knight will be an amazing bench player for us as long as his pride doesn't make him cause a disruption.

Agreed. Giving Len that contract would be stupid. Knight doesn't want to come off the bench. That is obvious at this point.

Where does everyone think Alex Len fits on this list?

Horford - Vet Max
M. Gasol - Vet Max (2015)
Howard - $23 mil
Drummond, Whiteside - Max
B. Lopez - $21 mil (2015)
Noah - $17 mil
Biyombo - $17 mil
Mahinmi - $16 mil
Mozgov - $16 mil
Miles Plumlee - $13 mil
Chandler - $13 mil (2015)
R. Lopez - $13 mil (2015)
Leonard - $9 mil
T. Zeller - $8 mil
Koufus - $8 mil (2015)
Ezeli, C. Aldrich - $7.5 mil
Marjonovic - $7 mil
Ajinca - $4.5 mil (2015)
Withey - $1 mil (2015)
Gobert - ???
Adams - ???
Mason Plumlee - ???
C. Zeller - ???
Nogueira - ???

[bwgood77]

I'm not excited for the prospect of paying Len 13-16 million per year.
I don't believe Goodwin will be back after this year and at this point it seems hes behind Ulis in the rotation.
Knight will be an amazing bench player for us as long as his pride doesn't make him cause a disruption.

Agreed. Giving Len that contract would be stupid. Knight doesn't want to come off the bench. That is obvious at this point.

Where does everyone think Alex Len fits on this list?

Horford - Vet Max
M. Gasol - Vet Max (2015)
Howard - $23 mil
Drummond, Whiteside - Max
B. Lopez - $21 mil (2015)
Noah - $17 mil
Biyombo - $17 mil
Mahinmi - $16 mil
Mozgov - $16 mil
Miles Plumlee - $13 mil
Chandler - $13 mil (2015)
R. Lopez - $13 mil (2015)
Leonard - $9 mil
T. Zeller - $8 mil
Koufus - $8 mil (2015)
Ezeli, C. Aldrich - $7.5 mil
Marjonovic - $7 mil
Ajinca - $4.5 mil (2015)
Withey - $1 mil (2015)
Gobert - ???
Adams - ???
Mason Plumlee - ???
C. Zeller - ???
Nogueira - ???

Probably somewhere between Lopez and Ezeli, but you pretty much should only consider new contracts given out this past summer to gauge market value. Although maybe that's what you did as I look at the list again.

[lilfishi22]

I'm not excited for the prospect of paying Len 13-16 million per year.
I don't believe Goodwin will be back after this year and at this point it seems hes behind Ulis in the rotation.
Knight will be an amazing bench player for us as long as his pride doesn't make him cause a disruption.

Agreed. Giving Len that contract would be stupid. Knight doesn't want to come off the bench. That is obvious at this point.

Where does everyone think Alex Len fits on this list?

Horford - Vet Max
M. Gasol - Vet Max (2015)
Howard - $23 mil
Drummond, Whiteside - Max
B. Lopez - $21 mil (2015)
Noah - $17 mil
Biyombo - $17 mil
Mahinmi - $16 mil
Mozgov - $16 mil
Miles Plumlee - $13 mil
Chandler - $13 mil (2015)
R. Lopez - $13 mil (2015)
Leonard - $9 mil
T. Zeller - $8 mil
Koufus - $8 mil (2015)
Ezeli, C. Aldrich - $7.5 mil
Marjonovic - $7 mil
Ajinca - $4.5 mil (2015)
Withey - $1 mil (2015)
Gobert - ???
Adams - ???
Mason Plumlee - ???
C. Zeller - ???
Nogueira - ???

At this point, I'd say he's in that spot right under $10m a year

[ATTL]

Is Len better than Boban?

[OGBAH]

Miles plumlee money or let him walk
He's not better then Chandler at this point imo

[batsmasher]

He gets at least John Henson money. Since there's more money to be had now... it has to be at least $12M.

[Zelaznyrules]

Miles plumlee money or let him walk
He's not better then Chandler at this point imo

Len should be much better than Miles Plumlee and should therefore be paid more too. But the fact he hasn't played like he's much better than Plumlee is a major concern for this organization. I don't know what's going on with him right now. Perhaps he's insulted that he's still pencilled in behind Chandler despite having been anointed as our big man of the future? Or maybe he's insulted by the lack of a serious offer?

But whatever the problem is, the Len we've seen so far in preseason has been a huge disappointment and there is no salary point that would seem to make sense for both him and us. He's not even playing at the Ezeli/Aldrich level but as a top 5 pick, it's a safe bet his agent is expecting at least Ian Mahinmi money.

[carey]

I know big men take time but Len is a flat out disappointment. He better at least show marked improvement by December or he's a goner. I'm certainly not paying him $12M a year.

Lets put it this way. I don't think starting Chandler and giving Big Sauce all the backup C minutes will change our win total at all. That's how little I think of Len currently.

[bwgood77]

I know big men take time but Len is a flat out disappointment. He better at least show marked improvement by December or he's a goner. I'm certainly not paying him $12M a year.

Lets put it this way. I don't think starting Chandler and giving Big Sauce all the backup C minutes will change our win total at all. That's how little I think of Len currently.

Unfortunately I agree, because we have enough offensive firepower, as good as Len is at rebounding, those two are better, but he will play so I hope he improves, because either then we likely have to make a big offer on a RFA (which I wouldn't mid with Noel), I'd rather Len do well enough so we keep the guy we have watched for a few years.

[sunskerr]

If Len doesn't pan out, we should consider trying to pry away one of the Nuggets' centers, especially if they aren't able play together because of defensive quickness issues. Doesn't look likely right now but it's something I'm sure our front office is keeping an eye on. Both Jokic and Nurkic are young enough to fit our core moving forward.

Yeah, Len has me a little worried. It's frustrating to see his struggles whilst Denver has two likely all-star level guys on their hands who have been obviously improving.

[NTB]

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2016/10/10/13215592/phoenix-suns-rotation-bender-ulis-sauce-out-of-rotation

[NavLDO]

He gets at least John Henson money. Since there's more money to be had now... it has to be at least $12M.

I agree, and in this market, that's worth about what Kieff got a few years back at $8M per, which is fair money for Len if he plays similar to last year (9 Pts / 7.5 TRebs).

If we assume he is the 4th/5th best starter (and hopefully improves to at least 11/8), $12M will be a fair price.

If we assume he's our Bench big that gives us 18-20 mpg, then I let him go, because he never seems to do well in that role, and our 5th overall pick should not be a Bench player. This, of course coming from the guy who watches highlights and box scores, but am I wrong? Doesn't Len usually play better when he's getting starter minutes rather than piece-meal minutes?

If he (which is not looking likely) comes out guns a blazin' and puts it all together by Mid-Season, then we should expect to pay at least $16-$18M. To me, that would be the best case scenario, obviously. I still hold out hope for Len to become a 32 mpg, slashing 14 / 9, and averaging about 1.5-2 Blks. I know, not likely, but not impossible either.

[Zelaznyrules]

He gets at least John Henson money. Since there's more money to be had now... it has to be at least $12M.

I agree, and in this market, that's worth about what Kieff got a few years back at $8M per, which is fair money for Len if he plays similar to last year (9 Pts / 7.5 TRebs).

If we assume he is the 4th/5th best starter (and hopefully improves to at least 11/8), $12M will be a fair price.

If we assume he's our Bench big that gives us 18-20 mpg, then I let him go, because he never seems to do well in that role, and our 5th overall pick should not be a Bench player. This, of course coming from the guy who watches highlights and box scores, but am I wrong? Doesn't Len usually play better when he's getting starter minutes rather than piece-meal minutes?

If he (which is not looking likely) comes out guns a blazin' and puts it all together by Mid-Season, then we should expect to pay at least $16-$18M. To me, that would be the best case scenario, obviously. I still hold out hope for Len to become a 32 mpg, slashing 14 / 9, and averaging about 1.5-2 Blks. I know, not likely, but not impossible either.

Coming into the season 2 years ago there was a lot of talk from the coaching staff, players and management about how much Len had improved and how he was going to surprise the fans. He showed glimpses of that improvement but injuries, as always, slowed him down and limited his opportunities. Last preseason, the GM, Chandler and others again raved about Len's growth and potential but again, mostly due to injuries, we saw little of the new Len.

So I figured this is the season Len breaks out and dominates but after 3 preseason games I'm at a loss. IMO Williams has outplayed him and that should never happen. But it isn't about stats. Sure it would be nice if he hit your numbers for points and rebounds but mostly I want to see him impact our defense (positively, if that must be said). Right now, I assure you there is no opposing coach out there trying to figure out how to neutralize Len as a defender. And that should not be the case with a guy as long, big and agile as Alex is. Somebody somewhere must know what's going on in this kid's head, I just hope that person works for us and knows a way to get past whatever it is.

[Scutt]

The amount of Alex Len haters on this board is unreal. You guys are getting worked up over preseason games. Can someone please explain to me why Suns fans love to turn on their young players as soon as they think these guys cannot be the superstars or all stars they envisioned? This same thing happened with Robin Lopez and he was only a 15th pick. The Suns draft mobile 7 footers with a decent touch, who can get up and down the floor, providing defense and doing the little things that do not show up in stats. Yet Suns fans turn on them, constantly comparing them to other players, and wanting to cast them off for not putting up 20 and 10 it seems.

Through all the turmoil of last year, losing his starting spot and being forced to play out of position a good portion of the time, 22 year old Alex Len still managed to average just under 9 and 8 in 23 minutes. Big men are getting paid. Look at what Miles Plumlee and Mozgov got. I would much rather have Len over either of those two, not to mention Len still has plenty of upside left. But here we have Suns fans that do not want to pay Len a similar amount because we have 34 year old Chandler and Alan Williams? Alex Len can provide much more than just rebounding, he is double double threat, much more so than either of those two. Chandler has already lost a step and is another year older, and Alan Williams has played a grand total of what 10 games in the NBA. I highly doubt he has the skill or range to play big minutes in this league, but lets give up on our #5 pick because we have those two? That is exactly what a rebuilding team should do.

I almost cannot wait for next year, so I can see all the fans start to turn on Bender and Chriss. It already seems to be happening with TJ Warren now too.