The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[bwgood77]

This was posted on another site.

1. Which will bother you more. Picking Ayton and having Doncic turn out better, or picking Doncic and having Ayton turn out better?
2. Who has the higher floor? Who has the higher ceiling?

Fanboys who create their own websites like the Ringer but have never played the game love Doncic. People who have played the game want Ayton. Even the Nate Oats, the coach of Buffalo that beat Ayton in the tourney said that Ayton is future NBA superstar.

James Jones is on record as saying that the UofA offense was "archaic."

It bothers me more when grown men call people who prefer one prospect over another "fanboys".

[bwgood77]

Positionless basketball


Only works

If you have players that are versatile, great shooters, slashers..... And great defenders.


Having 5 good scorers who need the ball against a team of 5 good scorers who can play defense and have all time great shooting is still going to lose

I agree that the teams with better players win.

But this holds true whether you play positionless or not.

But having versatility and not pigeonholing everyone into traditional positions allows you flexibility to play against different teams and styles, deal with injuries, create mismatches, etc

[Puff]

Positionless basketball


Only works

If you have players that are versatile, great shooters, slashers..... And great defenders.


Having 5 good scorers who need the ball against a team of 5 good scorers who can play defense and have all time great shooting is still going to lose

I agree that the teams with better players win.

But this holds true whether you play positionless or not.

But having versatility and not pigeonholing everyone into traditional positions allows you flexibility to play against different teams and styles, deal with injuries, create mismatches, etc

This is true. When you watch the Rockets and the Warriors play, they play the same way for the entire game. Surely their talent is not the same when Harden or Paul is on the bench for the Rockets or Durant and Curry are on the bench for the Warriors, but they team plays the same way. They keep the pressure on the opponent for 48 minutes.

If we draft Ayton we are going to play differently when he is on the court than when he is off.

I think this is the intrigueing part of what Doncic brings. I see the group of Doncic, Booker, Jackson and yes Warren to be interchangeble and very difficult to deal with for 48 minutes. They will keep the pressure on the opponent from beginning to end. All they need is a good supporting group to play defense and rebound. Those pieces can be found more easily than true offensvie creators.

Doncic, Booker, Jackons & Warren

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

Doncic continued to impress in Friday's Euroleague Final Four matchup against CSKA Moscow. Doncic played a team-high 30 minutes and finished with 16 points, 7 rebounds and 2 assists in a 92-83 win, showing impressive maturity and poise controlling the tempo of the game and navigating traffic. CSKA attempted to rattle Doncic with a full-court press and double-teams late in the game -- to no avail.

Doncic was mostly matched up with long-armed, athletic, American wing Will Clyburn, who challenged him throughout the game and repeatedly came up empty. Clyburn shot 5-of-17 from the field, with Doncic playing some of his best defense of the season.

Sacramento Kings general manager and Serbian native Vlade Divac was at the game as one of the decision-makers from lottery teams hoping to get another look at Doncic. The Kings have the No. 2 pick, behind the Phoenix Suns, who had owner Robert Sarver and VP of Basketball Operations James Jones courtside. The Dallas Mavericks, who have the fifth overall pick, sent general manager Donnie Nelson and longtime international scout Tony Ronzone.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23540410/top-draft-prospect-luka-doncic-shines-real-madrid-euroleague-final-four

[thamadkant]

Positionless basketball


Only works

If you have players that are versatile, great shooters, slashers..... And great defenders.


Having 5 good scorers who need the ball against a team of 5 good scorers who can play defense and have all time great shooting is still going to lose

I agree that the teams with better players win.

But this holds true whether you play positionless or not.

But having versatility and not pigeonholing everyone into traditional positions allows you flexibility to play against different teams and styles, deal with injuries, create mismatches, etc

This is true. When you watch the Rockets and the Warriors play, they play the same way for the entire game. Surely their talent is not the same when Harden or Paul is on the bench for the Rockets or Durant and Curry are on the bench for the Warriors, but they team plays the same way. They keep the pressure on the opponent for 48 minutes.

If we draft Ayton we are going to play differently when he is on the court than when he is off.

I think this is the intrigueing part of what Doncic brings. I see the group of Doncic, Booker, Jackson and yes Warren to be interchangeble and very difficult to deal with for 48 minutes. They will keep the pressure on the opponent from beginning to end. All they need is a good supporting group to play defense and rebound. Those pieces can be found more easily than true offensvie creators.

Doncic, Booker, Jackons & Warren

It's still a luxury to have someone you can dump the ball inside and he just gets an easy two or gets fouled

[JMac1]

Read on Twitter

Doncic continued to impress in Friday's Euroleague Final Four matchup against CSKA Moscow. Doncic played a team-high 30 minutes and finished with 16 points, 7 rebounds and 2 assists in a 92-83 win, showing impressive maturity and poise controlling the tempo of the game and navigating traffic. CSKA attempted to rattle Doncic with a full-court press and double-teams late in the game -- to no avail.

Doncic was mostly matched up with long-armed, athletic, American wing Will Clyburn, who challenged him throughout the game and repeatedly came up empty. Clyburn shot 5-of-17 from the field, with Doncic playing some of his best defense of the season.

Sacramento Kings general manager and Serbian native Vlade Divac was at the game as one of the decision-makers from lottery teams hoping to get another look at Doncic. The Kings have the No. 2 pick, behind the Phoenix Suns, who had owner Robert Sarver and VP of Basketball Operations James Jones courtside. The Dallas Mavericks, who have the fifth overall pick, sent general manager Donnie Nelson and longtime international scout Tony Ronzone.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23540410/top-draft-prospect-luka-doncic-shines-real-madrid-euroleague-final-four

That's effed up BW.........

I'm sold on Ayton. Damn, gotta watch some Ayton highlights to even it out, but yea, damn.....

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Doncic continued to impress in Friday's Euroleague Final Four matchup against CSKA Moscow. Doncic played a team-high 30 minutes and finished with 16 points, 7 rebounds and 2 assists in a 92-83 win, showing impressive maturity and poise controlling the tempo of the game and navigating traffic. CSKA attempted to rattle Doncic with a full-court press and double-teams late in the game -- to no avail.

Doncic was mostly matched up with long-armed, athletic, American wing Will Clyburn, who challenged him throughout the game and repeatedly came up empty. Clyburn shot 5-of-17 from the field, with Doncic playing some of his best defense of the season.

Sacramento Kings general manager and Serbian native Vlade Divac was at the game as one of the decision-makers from lottery teams hoping to get another look at Doncic. The Kings have the No. 2 pick, behind the Phoenix Suns, who had owner Robert Sarver and VP of Basketball Operations James Jones courtside. The Dallas Mavericks, who have the fifth overall pick, sent general manager Donnie Nelson and longtime international scout Tony Ronzone.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23540410/top-draft-prospect-luka-doncic-shines-real-madrid-euroleague-final-four

That's effed up BW.........

I'm sold on Ayton. Damn, gotta watch some Ayton highlights to even it out, but yea, damn.....

I was trying to update the link on the story and get the video in there....I had updated since you quoted, but edited. Anyway, it's hard not to be sold on Ayton..he's intriguing, but I like them both are in different ways. Came across another interesting video and stuff on Doncic too...hope the video posts..after this quote...

He’s leading Real Madrid in scoring (16.1 points a game on 46 percent shooting) and he’s second on the team in rebounds (4.8) and assists (4.4). The way he’s dominating at the highest levels of European basketball is a fascinating window into how he should be used in the NBA.

Everything changed for Doncic when Sergio Llull, a 2009 second-round pick who never made it over to the NBA, tore his ACL at EuroBasket last summer. Without Llull, one of the best scoring guards in Europe, Real Madrid head coach Pablo Laso gave Doncic the keys to the offense. At 6-foot-8 and 228 pounds, he has the frame of a power forward and the skill set of a point guard, and he can pick apart a defense off the dribble. They use him like James Harden: According to the tracking numbers at Synergy Sports, Doncic gets 47.3 percent of his offense out of the pick-and-roll, and he’s in the 93rd percentile of European players when scoring or passing out of the play. His highlight reel in the two-man game is downright pornographic:

Madrid built its team around Doncic, who is flanked by former NBA players in the prime of their careers. Jeffery Taylor, Rudy Fernandez, Anthony Randolph, and Gustavo Ayon played a combined 16 seasons in the league. Taylor, at 6-foot-7 and 225 pounds, is an athletic swingman who cross-switches with Doncic and defends point guards. Fernandez is an elite secondary scorer who spaces the floor for pick-and-rolls between Doncic and Ayon. Randolph, just like he was in the NBA, is the wild card, a talented but enigmatic stretch big man who can do a little bit of everything when he’s engaged.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/5/18/17367118/luka-doncic-euroleague-final-four

[thamadkant]

Doncic is a beast player but to really help the Suns beat rockets or Warriors with a no position style approach they need Paul George and Tobias Harris.

Both 6'9 can play 2 or more positions can get hot from 3 and put up 30 when hot on any given night...

Suns are so far from that...

[bwgood77]

Doncic is a beast player but to really help the Suns beat rockets or Warriors with a no position style approach they need Paul George and Tobias Harris.

Both 6'9 can play 2 or more positions can get hot from 3 and put up 30 when hot on any given night...

Suns are so far from that...

Paul George heard about a RealGM Suns poster who posted about signing him about 12x a day so he decided he's going to meet with the FO. Stay tuned.

[kennydorglas]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23540410/top-draft-prospect-luka-doncic-shines-real-madrid-euroleague-final-four

That's effed up BW.........

I'm sold on Ayton. Damn, gotta watch some Ayton highlights to even it out, but yea, damn.....

I was trying to update the link on the story and get the video in there....I had updated since you quoted, but edited. Anyway, it's hard not to be sold on Ayton..he's intriguing, but I like them both are in different ways. Came across another interesting video and stuff on Doncic too...hope the video posts..after this quote...

He’s leading Real Madrid in scoring (16.1 points a game on 46 percent shooting) and he’s second on the team in rebounds (4.8) and assists (4.4). The way he’s dominating at the highest levels of European basketball is a fascinating window into how he should be used in the NBA.

Everything changed for Doncic when Sergio Llull, a 2009 second-round pick who never made it over to the NBA, tore his ACL at EuroBasket last summer. Without Llull, one of the best scoring guards in Europe, Real Madrid head coach Pablo Laso gave Doncic the keys to the offense. At 6-foot-8 and 228 pounds, he has the frame of a power forward and the skill set of a point guard, and he can pick apart a defense off the dribble. They use him like James Harden: According to the tracking numbers at Synergy Sports, Doncic gets 47.3 percent of his offense out of the pick-and-roll, and he’s in the 93rd percentile of European players when scoring or passing out of the play. His highlight reel in the two-man game is downright pornographic:

Madrid built its team around Doncic, who is flanked by former NBA players in the prime of their careers. Jeffery Taylor, Rudy Fernandez, Anthony Randolph, and Gustavo Ayon played a combined 16 seasons in the league. Taylor, at 6-foot-7 and 225 pounds, is an athletic swingman who cross-switches with Doncic and defends point guards. Fernandez is an elite secondary scorer who spaces the floor for pick-and-rolls between Doncic and Ayon. Randolph, just like he was in the NBA, is the wild card, a talented but enigmatic stretch big man who can do a little bit of everything when he’s engaged.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/5/18/17367118/luka-doncic-euroleague-final-four

His second play is a perfect example of what I was talking about him earlier.
Sometimes he just picks up his dribble with no reason and then... WOW.

[jredsaz]

I'm dumb so maybe I don't get it, but I don't see how sticking Doncic at PF is anything more than a better passing but worse scoring/shooting and much worse rebounding Kevin Love who I doubt defends PFs any better and perhaps worse. He brings up Draymond, but the beauty of Draymond is the insane defense mixed with some guard skills. Diddo for Durant in their small ball, who is tall and long as hell and a great defender. It's not the same, but this reminds me a bit of the advanced stats dorks (it was the Dunc'd On guys iirc) before the draft saying Jayson Tatum would only have any value in the NBA as a PF. Nope, turns out he plays primarily SF and is awesome. It's like they think sticking anyone at a higher position automatically and massively makes them better because it works insanely well on the Warriors, who are a historically unique team.

Earlier written by Ben Rubin ..

Lonzo Ball (who I’d argue has been a top 20-25 NBA player in the last 15 games he’s played)

lmao

Ball's last 15 games:

FG: 35%, FT: 31%, 3pt%: 27, TS: 43%, +/- negative 1.5

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/balllo01/splits/2018

what in the world is that guy smoking?

[JMac1]

Watch on YouTube

Back on the Ayton train Love Doncic though. But Ayton is soooo skilled. J's, spins, power, baby hooks, turn around, touch, step backs...WTH? 19 year old Center

We are so fortunate. He and JJ in Summer League

Love his feet, watch how nimble they are. Slide, shuffle, and light on his feet.

Edit: lob finisher, passer

[TheFire]

Those on team Doncic (such as myself), what is your opinion on what we should do at the Center position assuming we draft Doncic at 1?

1. How realistic of a shot do we have at Capela? It seems almost inevitable that Houston matches any offer.
2. Would you drafts someone like Mitchell Robinson or Robert Williams at 16?
3. Do we wait and see what Kokoskov can do with Chriss/Bender and have one of them play the position?
4. Bring back Len (yuck)? or keep Chandler as the starter for the remainder of his contract (bigger yuck)?
5. There are some other interesting options such as Derick Favors who already has a rapport with Kokoskov

[MrMiyagi]

I think everyone is way too high on Capela.

[DirtyDez]

Read on Twitter

Doncic continued to impress in Friday's Euroleague Final Four matchup against CSKA Moscow. Doncic played a team-high 30 minutes and finished with 16 points, 7 rebounds and 2 assists in a 92-83 win, showing impressive maturity and poise controlling the tempo of the game and navigating traffic. CSKA attempted to rattle Doncic with a full-court press and double-teams late in the game -- to no avail.

Doncic was mostly matched up with long-armed, athletic, American wing Will Clyburn, who challenged him throughout the game and repeatedly came up empty. Clyburn shot 5-of-17 from the field, with Doncic playing some of his best defense of the season.

Sacramento Kings general manager and Serbian native Vlade Divac was at the game as one of the decision-makers from lottery teams hoping to get another look at Doncic. The Kings have the No. 2 pick, behind the Phoenix Suns, who had owner Robert Sarver and VP of Basketball Operations James Jones courtside. The Dallas Mavericks, who have the fifth overall pick, sent general manager Donnie Nelson and longtime international scout Tony Ronzone.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23540410/top-draft-prospect-luka-doncic-shines-real-madrid-euroleague-final-four

I thought Givony would be more objective than this. He replaced 4-12, more turnovers than assists and a negative game rating with “showed impressive poise and maturity”. These are the types of fluff pieces we will see from here in out. There was an Ayton article in Dallas labeling him the next Hakeem without listing any flaws as well.

[bwoolf2]

Read on Twitter

Doncic continued to impress in Friday's Euroleague Final Four matchup against CSKA Moscow. Doncic played a team-high 30 minutes and finished with 16 points, 7 rebounds and 2 assists in a 92-83 win, showing impressive maturity and poise controlling the tempo of the game and navigating traffic. CSKA attempted to rattle Doncic with a full-court press and double-teams late in the game -- to no avail.

Doncic was mostly matched up with long-armed, athletic, American wing Will Clyburn, who challenged him throughout the game and repeatedly came up empty. Clyburn shot 5-of-17 from the field, with Doncic playing some of his best defense of the season.

Sacramento Kings general manager and Serbian native Vlade Divac was at the game as one of the decision-makers from lottery teams hoping to get another look at Doncic. The Kings have the No. 2 pick, behind the Phoenix Suns, who had owner Robert Sarver and VP of Basketball Operations James Jones courtside. The Dallas Mavericks, who have the fifth overall pick, sent general manager Donnie Nelson and longtime international scout Tony Ronzone.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23540410/top-draft-prospect-luka-doncic-shines-real-madrid-euroleague-final-four

I love that Will Clyburn is now a defensive stopper and a great offensive player, come on now... played at Utah and Iowa st and was an ok player but nothing special at the college level.

[kennydorglas]

Those on team Doncic (such as myself), what is your opinion on what we should do at the Center position assuming we draft Doncic at 1?

1. How realistic of a shot do we have at Capela? It seems almost inevitable that Houston matches any offer.
2. Would you drafts someone like Mitchell Robinson or Robert Williams at 16?
3. Do we wait and see what Kokoskov can do with Chriss/Bender and have one of them play the position?
4. Bring back Len (yuck)? or keep Chandler as the starter for the remainder of his contract (bigger yuck)?
5. There are some other interesting options such as Derick Favors who already has a rapport with Kokoskov

1- Im not ready to throw the MAX for Capela.
2- I think i'd go after Williams. Mitchell just has too many question marks.
3- Dragan would be the best bet but I dont think he's ready yet.
4- NAH
5- Favors is a very intriguing option. His game will really flourish when he doesnt need to play next to Gobert.

[phx#7]

Watch on YouTube

Back on the Ayton train Love Doncic though. But Ayton is soooo skilled. J's, spins, power, baby hooks, turn around, touch, step backs...WTH? 19 year old Center

We are so fortunate. He and JJ in Summer League

Love his feet, watch how nimble they are. Slide, shuffle, and light on his feet.

Edit: lob finisher, passer

Lack of motor on full display at the 7:39 mark, with a double digit lead on an unranked team.

[phx#7]

Voted Ayton. Not even watching Doncic because I am very confident the Suns won't be getting him.

[thamadkant]

I have concerns with Doncic and Booker back court not just defensively but Alpha-dog wise.
Doncic would be amazing with someone like Klay Thompson.


Suns should be working out players that can be elite 3D players like Klay.
Mikal Bridges, Chandler Hutchinson types... 6'7-ish, long arms, catch and shoot, can dribble a bit... can play lock down on multiple positions.




Crazy idea (and dumb)
Booker and Knight for Pick 2 (lol)

Suns draft Doncic and Ayton at 1 and 2.


Suns move up to Pick 7 (trading Pick 16 and future plus absorbing Tristan Thompson)

Suns draft Mikal Bridges



Suns lineup

C: Ayton
F: Bridges / Thompson
F: Jackson
G: Doncic
G: George Hill (sign for 1 year)

Suns re-tooled built around Doncic and Ayton!