2022-23 Season Discussion and Review - the Blockbuster trade and playoff downfall

[sunsbum]

I don't know who or what I would trade Ayton for... but I don't like watching him anymore. His effort bothers me.

[lonea]

I don't know who or what I would trade Ayton for... but I don't like watching him anymore. His effort bothers me.

shhhh... some people on here will tell you how much pts and rebs he's averaging, so he's a good player to keep

[lilfishi22]

I don't know who or what I would trade Ayton for... but I don't like watching him anymore. His effort bothers me.

shhhh... some people on here will tell you how much pts and rebs he's averaging, so he's a good player to keep

Without putting personal feelings and emotions into this, what we trade DA for has to make us a better team otherwise the same frustration you have for DA will remain, but directed at his replacement.

The number of C's who even averages 18ppg is small, that number gets smaller when you throw in the rebounds, the efficiency and the FT%. That number then goes down further when you consider the number of guys who are actually available to trade without giving up future assets we don't have. Sure, we don't need to have a better C in return but the package we get back should make us better.

DA is overpaid, he's inconsistent and he's frustrating and I'm not saying the grass isn't greener, what I'm saying is finding and getting to the greener pastures is harder than you think. If there's a deal that progresses us as a team and we can get it done with DA, yeah I'm all for it. But right now, you could consider him to be sunken cost however we have him locked up, he basically has nowhere to go but up and it's in our best interest to get the most out of him while he's here.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I know NY loves Quickley but Mitch and IQ for DA and slip CP3 in there while we're at it

Nice! In that scenario I'd wish we could get Grimes in place of quickly for his defensive tenacity. But overall I'd think either would be a solid get. I'd still push for the inclusion of a 1st too. Either Dallas' 1st this year or Washington's next year if we were to trade Ayton in a draft night deal as we'll definitely need a cost controlled talent influx to offset any potential depth we'd lose in free agency?

It's always funny reading a trade idea that I don't think the other team would do and then seeing your response which is usually the other team adding a first or two to the deal and usually a young prospect as well.

Well................. In regards to the value gap comparison between Ayton and Mitchell in a trade due to their respective abilities, talents, statistical efficiency, versatility, etc. I personally don't see an inclusionary 1st as that big of a sacrifice. Especially when you consider how much Ayton could elevate them further in the postseason on his talent/ versatility alone.

Also I of course suggest pushing for these firsts in my trades because you lose nothing by asking and the worst outcome is that they can say no! But if you don't ask, then the only person you cheat in the deal is yourself. Also it's always better in negotiations to start high and then work your way down ( if necessary) to an amenable compromise. But you should always start high and push for maximum value whenever possible. That way, even if your return gets reduced somewhat, you still might walk away with solid value rather than aiming low at the start.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Some more info on the new suns hire of Gerald Madkins:

https://arizonasports.com/story/3515912/suns-adding-gerald-madkins-to-front-office/

Suns hire Madkins as VP of personnel evaluation, assistant GM

Mar 15, 2023, 9:03 AM | Updated: 4:10 pm

PHOENIX SUNSSuns hire Madkins as VP of personnel evaluation, assistant GM

Mar 15, 2023, 9:03 AM | Updated: 4:10 pm

Share 

BY ARIZONA SPORTS

The Phoenix Suns have hired long-time NBA evaluator Gerald Madkins to join their front office, the team announced Wednesday.

Andscape’s Marc J. Spears as first to report the hire.

Madkins will serve as vice president of personnel evaluation and assistant general manager. He’s the second significant reported front office addition since new owner Mat Ishbia took control of the team in February.
Madkins, a UCLA product, had two stints in the NBA around a career in the Continental Basketball Association and overseas. He brings extensive experience to the James Jones-led front office.

He has served as scout, director of basketball operations, assistant GM, and vice president of player personnel and other roles for several NBA teams. Madkins has worked for the Seattle SuperSonics (2007-08), Houston Rockets (2008-10), New Orleans Hornets (2010-12), Los Angles Clippers (2012-17) and New York Knicks (2017-20).

He played college basketball at UCLA (1987-1992) and after his playing career was an assistant coach for California State University Stanislaus and the Bruins.

Phoenix has not publicly announced the reported addition of CEO Josh Bartelstein, who is to oversee both the business and basketball operations alongside Ishbia. Jones, the president of basketball operations and general manager, will continue to directly report to Ishbia, according to ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski.

According to the Suns’ staff directory updated after Ishbia’s official takeover from former owner Robert Sarver in February, the basketball division below Jones also includes:

- Assistant GM/ Vice President Morgan Cato.
- Assistant GM Trevor Bukstein.
- VP of basketball strategy and evaluation Ryan Resch.
- Director of basketball operations Jeff Feld.

[Jdiddy701]

I actually preferred the Warriors to win today since their next 4 games are on the road. The Clippers are on our heels. Next two games are must wins for the Suns.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[garrick]

Please tell me we have trade options for deyawndre this summer

I think there will be and if we don't win it all this year, moving him might cause the team to make another big splash. Will be interesting to see how the offseason is approached.

Looks like my Poeltl and Plumleee ideas are likely not possible now. I would say Brooklyn might trade Simmons for him but they have Claxton and already didn't want Ayton in the KD trade. I wonder if Indy would be interested, though they probably never offered Turner for him since they cleared out cap space to sign him outright. I think had they offered him we would have done a S&T for him.

Not sure if most would like Turner since he just mostly shoots jump shots, dunks less, rebounds less and has a similar turnover rate as Ayton, but he probably would be a better fit given he can by a 3&D center. We would struggle rebounding more as a team though.

Still, that is good value.

I wouldn't be shocked if they traded him for cap space (take back a way cheaper C) to get under the tax. If so it would be nice to get 1st for him to replenish at least one of our 4 1sts.

The only thing Turner can do better than Ayton is hit 3's and block more shots but he's often all too invisible on offense and has historically been worse on offense though his scoring is up this year.

Not sure how this moves the needle for us but for Ayton a fresh start would do him some good and he like Bridges will most likely gain more confidence on offense as he would no longer be on a team that feels like it's championship or bust.

[Hitachi77]

Good news is I don’t think anyone from 7+ can catch us. The only team I think is capable of a run like that is the Mavs, and not only have Luka / Kyrie not been playing, but we have a 3 game lead, which is kind of a 4 game lead because we are in good position to have the better conf record.

Worst case scenario is the 5 seed. I still kinda think the best case scenario is the 6 seed, playing Sac specifically. Warriors / Clippers in the 4/5 would be amazing, though the Warriors will probably be in good position to tank to 6.

[Ryu]

Seeing this is his fifth year in the league, I think most "haters" gave him enough chance to redeem himself.

His skillset has stagnated since the championship year and there's not much going on at the defensive end. His defensive IQ is questionable at best. I think it was clearly shown in the GS game two nights ago when CP was playing D on Curry at the baseline and Ayton just stood there letting Curry attempt and layup. Even the announcer said, CP was expecting Ayton to trap Curry.

I have said it before, Ayton is not a big game player. He's shtting the bed every time he's given the opportunity.

Not arguing your perspective here man that it might be time to move on and despite his unbelievable potential, he very likely might not ever reach it due to his soft hearted affable/ finesse mentality. And even I myself as a staunch Ayton supporter find his hot/cold motor and lack of aggression very frustrating/ grating as I've already stated too. But what I've asked you and others is simply what players/ returning value are most realistic (in any of your estimations) should we look to deal him for a more cost effective option? And which of the likely available trade packages would be best to recoup a modicum of equitable value given our current situation and roster composition? Which teams and which comparable positional players are actually legitimate realistic options for us given the professed concerns and contractual considerations with him?? I'm still asking the same questions (yet unanswered) about what our REALISTIC and LEGITIMATE options would be for him this summer?? I'm not adamantly opposed to moving him at all as long as the return is equitable towards recouping some lost value/assets/ talent or depth. OR the returning package yields some actual flexibility and assets to pursue other reasonable options whilst affording us the opportunity to upgrade other key positions of need or legitimate bench depth??

I'm just waiting for some reasonably realistic ideas around this premise that we might consider, discuss, postulate over. I've already mentioned two names I'd find to be more reasonable cheaper alternatives even aside from Mitchell in Valuncias and/ or Vucevic. And what they're value might be to us! So again, I'm asking any of those with vested interest in moving Ayton: You, Kenny Dorglas, Bigfoot, Sunskerr, Jdiddey, Sunsbum, etc. What are some realistic trade packages/ players/ assets (for purpose of discussion) that we might realistically consider as viable options here in this premise? What assets? Which players would be best options to replace him (and what would they bring that we need)?? most importantly before we can even discuss potential value packages for him, which teams would be truly and legitimately interested this summer?? Any answers to these specific questions is basically what I'm looking for here man?

Well, that's answer is very subjective in terms of the value.

But for starter, probably Robinson + Rose (team option). That would probably match the salary. Getting Quickley would be a huge boost.

Rose would replace Payne.

Seeing Payne is only partial guarantee next season, there would be teams that will be willing to take the contract.

Robinson? That guy cannot play serious basketball for more than 15 mpg. Not to mention Derrick Rose who is washed and finished unfortunately. SMH

You said DA is not the big game player, well he didn`t play too bad last two playoffs, right? You Ayton haters are too prone for overreactions it`s insane.

Heck, calling DA Kwame Brown is enough to discredit you from any serious discussion.

[Puff]

Good news is I don’t think anyone from 7+ can catch us. The only team I think is capable of a run like that is the Mavs, and not only have Luka / Kyrie not been playing, but we have a 3 game lead, which is kind of a 4 game lead because we are in good position to have the better conf record.

Worst case scenario is the 5 seed. I still kinda think the best case scenario is the 6 seed, playing Sac specifically. Warriors / Clippers in the 4/5 would be amazing, though the Warriors will probably be in good position to tank to 6.

What happens if we drop the next three? That is possible.

I say KD's ankle is suddenly much better.

Booker needs some help. Ayton needs to wake the fook up. He is not playing like he is the 2nd best player for us when Durant is not playing. I have no idea why so many are so confident that we are going to be at the worst a 6 seed. We have our work cut out to make sure we even make the play in tournament. I am concerned even when we get Duran back. We are playing like crap.

[KdoubleDees23]

I don't know who or what I would trade Ayton for... but I don't like watching him anymore. His effort bothers me.

shhhh... some people on here will tell you how much pts and rebs he's averaging, so he's a good player to keep

What’s funny is the people crying about him are expecting him to avg 20 +

[Calvin Klein]

I don't wanna be that guy but dropping to 6th place wouldn't be that bad I guess. Avoiding Clips/Warriors/Nuggets until an eventual WCF

[bwgood77]

I don't know who or what I would trade Ayton for... but I don't like watching him anymore. His effort bothers me.

shhhh... some people on here will tell you how much pts and rebs he's averaging, so he's a good player to keep

Without putting personal feelings and emotions into this, what we trade DA for has to make us a better team otherwise the same frustration you have for DA will remain, but directed at his replacement.

The number of C's who even averages 18ppg is small, that number gets smaller when you throw in the rebounds, the efficiency and the FT%. That number then goes down further when you consider the number of guys who are actually available to trade without giving up future assets we don't have. Sure, we don't need to have a better C in return but the package we get back should make us better.

DA is overpaid, he's inconsistent and he's frustrating and I'm not saying the grass isn't greener, what I'm saying is finding and getting to the greener pastures is harder than you think. If there's a deal that progresses us as a team and we can get it done with DA, yeah I'm all for it. But right now, you could consider him to be sunken cost however we have him locked up, he basically has nowhere to go but up and it's in our best interest to get the most out of him while he's here.

How many avg his pts and rebs at his FG%?

[bwgood77]

I don't wanna be that guy but dropping to 6th place wouldn't be that bad I guess. Avoiding Clips/Warriors/Nuggets until an eventual WCF

Why not be that guy? Makes sense to me. I've had the same thought. I don't really see how we stay ahead of the Clips/Warriors at this point anyway.

[bwgood77]

Good news is I don’t think anyone from 7+ can catch us. The only team I think is capable of a run like that is the Mavs, and not only have Luka / Kyrie not been playing, but we have a 3 game lead, which is kind of a 4 game lead because we are in good position to have the better conf record.

Worst case scenario is the 5 seed. I still kinda think the best case scenario is the 6 seed, playing Sac specifically. Warriors / Clippers in the 4/5 would be amazing, though the Warriors will probably be in good position to tank to 6.

What happens if we drop the next three? That is possible.

I say KD's ankle is suddenly much better.

Booker needs some help. Ayton needs to wake the fook up. He is not playing like he is the 2nd best player for us when Durant is not playing. I have no idea why so many are so confident that we are going to be at the worst a 6 seed. We have our work cut out to make sure we even make the play in tournament. I am concerned even when we get Duran back. We are playing like crap.

I think we could drop below 6th but below 10th is a long way. We really don't want to drop below 7th though. At least in that case if we win 1 we would get Memphis and if we win than Sacramento, and if we lost 1 play in we'd have another chance to win 1 in the 8/9 game.

[bwgood77]

That all being said, Sacramento has been playing very tough so not sure we could beat them. Memphis would be no cakewalk either.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

That all being said, Sacramento has been playing very tough so not sure we could beat them. Memphis would be no cakewalk either.

With a healthy KD I have us beating SAC. I think we'd have the upper hand on DEN, too, but they'd have a chance with all the scorers on their roster. What bothers me about playing MEM is how physical and fast they are, and whether that increases the likelihood of a KD injury. If he can stay healthy, we should beat MEM... though I may be underestimating Roddy. Haven't watched him during this recent stretch. LAC would be a tough series, but so long as Westbrook plays big minutes, we should beat them, too.

LAL and GSW scare me more than these teams - probably more than anyone else in the WC, TBH.

DAL is also a threat. They have our number. It'd be a series, that's for sure.

I haven't watched the Wolves or Thunder of late, but I'd be pretty surprised if they took us out.

But supposing we got by all these squads, there's the Finals. Boston or Philly would be a toss up, though I guess I'd rather play Boston (as Embiid would take DA out of every game early with foul trouble). We'd be underdogs against Milwaukee for sure, though. All three of those teams are scarier than anything out west unless GSW or LAL is rolling.

[bwgood77]

That all being said, Sacramento has been playing very tough so not sure we could beat them. Memphis would be no cakewalk either.

With a healthy KD I have us beating SAC. I think we'd have the upper hand on DEN, too, but they'd have a chance with all the scorers on their roster. What bothers me about playing MEM is how physical and fast they are, and whether that increases the likelihood of a KD injury. If he can stay healthy, we should beat MEM... though I may be underestimating Roddy. Haven't watched him during this recent stretch. LAC would be a tough series, but so long as Westbrook plays big minutes, we should beat them, too.

LAL and GSW scare me more than these teams - probably more than anyone else in the WC, TBH.

DAL is also a threat. They have our number. It'd be a series, that's for sure.

I haven't watched the Wolves or Thunder of late, but I'd be pretty surprised if they took us out.

But supposing we got by all these squads, there's the Finals. Boston or Philly would be a toss up, though I guess I'd rather play Boston (as Embiid would take DA out of every game early with foul trouble). We'd be underdogs against Milwaukee for sure, though. All three of those teams are scarier than anything out west unless GSW or LAL is rolling.

Yeah, if KD Is on, which he usually is except for the playoffs last year, we should be able to handle anyone, though I don't think any series would be easy. Kawhi is the one player that worries me the most (or Steph/Klay if they both get hot), but Kawhi has shown he can play at a different level in the playoffs and lead his team past others who have superstars (took Toronto past Embiid/Butler/Simmons when he was beter) and Giannis when they had the best record by far....just steps up when he needs to. The Clips did blow a lead in the bubble but other than that with the Clips he was injured when they lost in the playoffs.

[lonea]

I don't know who or what I would trade Ayton for... but I don't like watching him anymore. His effort bothers me.

shhhh... some people on here will tell you how much pts and rebs he's averaging, so he's a good player to keep

Without putting personal feelings and emotions into this, what we trade DA for has to make us a better team otherwise the same frustration you have for DA will remain, but directed at his replacement.

The number of C's who even averages 18ppg is small, that number gets smaller when you throw in the rebounds, the efficiency and the FT%. That number then goes down further when you consider the number of guys who are actually available to trade without giving up future assets we don't have. Sure, we don't need to have a better C in return but the package we get back should make us better.

DA is overpaid, he's inconsistent and he's frustrating and I'm not saying the grass isn't greener, what I'm saying is finding and getting to the greener pastures is harder than you think. If there's a deal that progresses us as a team and we can get it done with DA, yeah I'm all for it. But right now, you could consider him to be sunken cost however we have him locked up, he basically has nowhere to go but up and it's in our best interest to get the most out of him while he's here.

Actually, no.

The replacement which I assume will be much cheaper and won't be getting much offensive touches.

Suns need players who knows how to play the game and have skills. Just look at Draymond green.

He's one of the main reason why GS is good at defense and also why the Suns are not.

[lonea]

Not arguing your perspective here man that it might be time to move on and despite his unbelievable potential, he very likely might not ever reach it due to his soft hearted affable/ finesse mentality. And even I myself as a staunch Ayton supporter find his hot/cold motor and lack of aggression very frustrating/ grating as I've already stated too. But what I've asked you and others is simply what players/ returning value are most realistic (in any of your estimations) should we look to deal him for a more cost effective option? And which of the likely available trade packages would be best to recoup a modicum of equitable value given our current situation and roster composition? Which teams and which comparable positional players are actually legitimate realistic options for us given the professed concerns and contractual considerations with him?? I'm still asking the same questions (yet unanswered) about what our REALISTIC and LEGITIMATE options would be for him this summer?? I'm not adamantly opposed to moving him at all as long as the return is equitable towards recouping some lost value/assets/ talent or depth. OR the returning package yields some actual flexibility and assets to pursue other reasonable options whilst affording us the opportunity to upgrade other key positions of need or legitimate bench depth??

I'm just waiting for some reasonably realistic ideas around this premise that we might consider, discuss, postulate over. I've already mentioned two names I'd find to be more reasonable cheaper alternatives even aside from Mitchell in Valuncias and/ or Vucevic. And what they're value might be to us! So again, I'm asking any of those with vested interest in moving Ayton: You, Kenny Dorglas, Bigfoot, Sunskerr, Jdiddey, Sunsbum, etc. What are some realistic trade packages/ players/ assets (for purpose of discussion) that we might realistically consider as viable options here in this premise? What assets? Which players would be best options to replace him (and what would they bring that we need)?? most importantly before we can even discuss potential value packages for him, which teams would be truly and legitimately interested this summer?? Any answers to these specific questions is basically what I'm looking for here man?

Well, that's answer is very subjective in terms of the value.

But for starter, probably Robinson + Rose (team option). That would probably match the salary. Getting Quickley would be a huge boost.

Rose would replace Payne.

Seeing Payne is only partial guarantee next season, there would be teams that will be willing to take the contract.

Robinson? That guy cannot play serious basketball for more than 15 mpg. Not to mention Derrick Rose who is washed and finished unfortunately. SMH

You said DA is not the big game player, well he didn`t play too bad last two playoffs, right? You Ayton haters are too prone for overreactions it`s insane.

Heck, calling DA Kwame Brown is enough to discredit you from any serious discussion.

Suns need role players who are good at one thing. Either Offense or Defense.

ayton at this moment in 2023 is neither.

Hell, if ayton have Okogie hustle. The suns would have 2 championships by now