The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2

[Frank Lee]

So imagine the conversation
Gregory : we can’t really sign anyone, other than minimum contracts, and have to trade dollar for dollar being in the second apron
Matty: let’s get out of that
Gregory: Well, we can get under the first apron by releasing Micic and Martin…
Matty: let’s do that and sign somebody
Gregory: well, we can only sign a free agent for 6mill and change
Matty : that sucks, nobody any good is going to do that. What else can we do
Gregory: well, we can buyout Beal, stretch him, release those other guys, and get to the full MLE at 12 mill… then sign Larry Nance or may be Yabusule…at least we can offer that…..oh and it saves a bunch of tax money and keeps us under the second apron. And makes it easier to trade now and mid season.
Matty: what’s the down side?
Gregory: well, we loose potential cap space 2 yrs from now, and have to absorb 20+ mill in cap space going forward. And, we are essentially running back the so called big three
Matty: Cap space 2 yrs from now?.. what good is that today? trade him then
Gregory: ummm we can’t
Matty: so we have to trade KD to get better? Cant I just keep him ?
Gregory : the return isn’t quite what you want, but I guess so, but then are you are keeping Beal… and stuck with minimum contract players, a couple draft picks, and some walk ons?
Matty: wait so we can keep Durant, add a 12 mill man, get a tax break, and stay under the second apron by stretching Beal, or status quo, run Beal Book and KD back with little help…or trade KD and keep Beal…why are we keeping him again? For cap space two years from now?
Gregory: that’s pretty much it
Matty: sheesh , this is hard…can’t I just spend more money?
Gregory: not really, except on a coach
Matty : well, third time is the charm right. I think I’m going to offer 50 cent hot dogs. What do you think of that? The fans are going to love me.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Is there anyway that Giannis's price is too high and we can move Durant for Castle, the #14 and filler? Spurs can still take Harper and add a monster punch in scoring. We get a PGOTF and a pick in the teens.

Not likely! They have Castle as a franchise cornerstone piece. And with the embarrassment that our front office has the reputation of being, they'll very likely try to lowball us not even including Vassell in a trade but rather some package of either:

Keldon Johnson/ Barnes/ Sochan/ 1-2 firsts (I wouldn't accept this package without AT LEAST 2-3 1sts coming back).

Johnson/ Barnes/ Wesley/ filler/ 2 1sts.

But my package I'd demand would be:

Vassell/ Barnes/ Sochan/ 2 1sts (14th pick) / ATL 27' 1st or 2030 1st via DAL or MIN (swap rights) ** DAL unprotected or Minnesota only top 1 protected.

I'd then look to flip Vassell to Charlotte for Mark Williams/ Grant Williams/ 2 2nds- NOP 25' 2nd (33rd pick)CHO 25' 2nd (34th pick).
** I'd use the 33rd and 34th picks on:

33- Adou Thiero.
34- Kalkbrenner or Zisarky.
OR
Vassell/ Richards to Orlando for KCP/ Bidatze and the DEN 25' 1st (25th pick).
** I'd use this pick for Lendeborg or Raynaud.

[BobbieL]

So imagine the conversation
Gregory : we can’t really sign anyone, other than minimum contracts, and have to trade dollar for dollar being in the second apron
Matty: let’s get out of that
Gregory: Well, we can get under the first apron by releasing Micic and Martin…
Matty: let’s do that and sign somebody
Gregory: well, we can only sign a free agent for 6mill and change
Matty : that sucks, nobody any good is going to do that. What else can we do
Gregory: well, we can buyout Beal, stretch him, release those other guys, and get to the full MLE at 12 mill… then sign Larry Nance or may be Yabusule…at least we can offer that…..oh and it saves a bunch of tax money and keeps us under the second apron. And makes it easier to trade now and mid season.
Matty: what’s the down side?
Gregory: well, we loose potential cap space 2 yrs from now, and have to absorb 20+ mill in cap space going forward. And, we are essentially running back the so called big three
Matty: Cap space 2 yrs from now?.. what good is that today? trade him then
Gregory: ummm we can’t
Matty: so we have to trade KD to get better? Cant I just keep him ?
Gregory : the return isn’t quite what you want, but I guess so, but then are you are keeping Beal… and stuck with minimum contract players, a couple draft picks, and some walk ons?
Matty: wait so we can keep Durant, add a 12 mill man, get a tax break, and stay under the second apron by stretching Beal, or status quo, run Beal Book and KD back with little help…or trade KD and keep Beal…why are we keeping him again? For cap space two years from now?
Gregory: that’s pretty much it
Matty: sheesh , this is hard…can’t I just spend more money?
Gregory: not really, except on a coach
Matty : well, third time is the charm right. I think I’m going to offer 50 cent hot dogs. What do you think of that? The fans are going to love me.

Well done and you made my point about why I think stretching Beal for 5 years just to have access to the MLE is more activity over accomplishment. Is Nance or Yabusele going to really move the needle

And I get trying to trade Allen and O'Neale for expirings by 2027 with riding out Beal is no guarantee of anything but if the best you can hope for is Larry Nance - thats not winning a damn thing!

[BobbieL]

Troy Brown from Nuggets said it best when they defeated Suns... he described the suns as not a good team. KD and Booker played a two man game team be damned. Ayton averaged 13fga before KD which was already low and his fga went down to 7fga... look it up. His averages as well as CP3'S drastically went down post KD.

Kevin Durant played only eight regular season games, so his in season affect on anyone was minimal. Ayton averaged 18 points per and CP3 13.9.

In the playoffs is when Ayton went from 18 points and 10 boards to 13.4 PPG and 5 rebounds, on 2 less shots per (13.2 to 11.1). I remain convinced that his problem was Jokic, who averaged 34.5 points and 13.2 rebounds, not Devin or KD.

Chris Paul was less affected. He only dropped from 13.9 to 12.4, but with 2 more shots per. But he, too, had his hands full with Murray who went from 20 in season to 26.1.

I think it is consistent, but beyond disingenuous, to fault the the team's only two great performances -- Books' 33.7 PPG and KD's 29 per. I believe the real world, as do most Suns' fans, know who are the best players.

Did you watch the team before the KD trade?

I just know the team was better before Durant and maybe they could have gotten by with Durant but screwing up the Beal and Ayton trades only added to the misery. But there might not be a Beal trade without Durant

[Fo-Real]

Read on Twitter

If the Knicks blow this series and lose badly to Indiana, (bad karma they created by attacking Boston fans, etc) then I'd have to think that a KD trade would be back on! Especially looking at the growing dysfunction between Brunson, KAT, Anunoby and Bridges.

Saw Anunoby motion to Kat during the game a few times on the court angrily. Seem to be criticizing his defense. The Pacers were attacking his drop coverage.

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

If the Knicks blow this series and lose badly to Indiana, (bad karma they created by attacking Boston fans, etc) then I'd have to think that a KD trade would be back on! Especially looking at the growing dysfunction between Brunson, KAT, Anunoby and Bridges.

Saw Anunoby motion to Kat during the game a few times on the court angrily. Seem to be criticizing his defense. The Pacers were attacking his drop coverage.

Ishbia would only trade for KAT in that scenario - he would want the big name scorer
waive and stretch Beal
sign D'Lo

And Booker would be happy to have KAT and D'Lo

[Frank Lee]

Bobby,.. the point is what do you think Wishbia will do?

[BobbieL]

Bobby,.. the point is what do you think Wishbia will do?

The absolute most short-sighted thing possible. I was going to add stupidest in there as well, But its more he will be just focused on the one season ahead and not thinking into the future.

Granted, stretching Beal is just as much about saving cash as I truly think if he stretches Beal as opposed to paying him the $50+m each year -- he saves like $75-100m per year. I think I have the math right, that he gets far enough under the apron so he is not tax at 4x the salary or whatever

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

If the Knicks blow this series and lose badly to Indiana, (bad karma they created by attacking Boston fans, etc) then I'd have to think that a KD trade would be back on! Especially looking at the growing dysfunction between Brunson, KAT, Anunoby and Bridges.

Saw Anunoby motion to Kat during the game a few times on the court angrily. Seem to be criticizing his defense. The Pacers were attacking his drop coverage.

Ishbia would only trade for KAT in that scenario - he would want the big name scorer
waive and stretch Beal
sign D'Lo

And Booker would be happy to have KAT and D'Lo

KAT is not gonna be on the market. He is playing amazing ball all season long and even better on their playoffs run.

[bwgood77]

So imagine the conversation
Gregory : we can’t really sign anyone, other than minimum contracts, and have to trade dollar for dollar being in the second apron
Matty: let’s get out of that
Gregory: Well, we can get under the first apron by releasing Micic and Martin…
Matty: let’s do that and sign somebody
Gregory: well, we can only sign a free agent for 6mill and change
Matty : that sucks, nobody any good is going to do that. What else can we do
Gregory: well, we can buyout Beal, stretch him, release those other guys, and get to the full MLE at 12 mill… then sign Larry Nance or may be Yabusule…at least we can offer that…..oh and it saves a bunch of tax money and keeps us under the second apron. And makes it easier to trade now and mid season.
Matty: what’s the down side?
Gregory: well, we loose potential cap space 2 yrs from now, and have to absorb 20+ mill in cap space going forward. And, we are essentially running back the so called big three
Matty: Cap space 2 yrs from now?.. what good is that today? trade him then
Gregory: ummm we can’t
Matty: so we have to trade KD to get better? Cant I just keep him ?
Gregory : the return isn’t quite what you want, but I guess so, but then are you are keeping Beal… and stuck with minimum contract players, a couple draft picks, and some walk ons?
Matty: wait so we can keep Durant, add a 12 mill man, get a tax break, and stay under the second apron by stretching Beal, or status quo, run Beal Book and KD back with little help…or trade KD and keep Beal…why are we keeping him again? For cap space two years from now?
Gregory: that’s pretty much it
Matty: sheesh , this is hard…can’t I just spend more money?
Gregory: not really, except on a coach
Matty : well, third time is the charm right. I think I’m going to offer 50 cent hot dogs. What do you think of that? The fans are going to love me.

Well done and you made my point about why I think stretching Beal for 5 years just to have access to the MLE is more activity over accomplishment. Is Nance or Yabusele going to really move the needle

And I get trying to trade Allen and O'Neale for expirings by 2027 with riding out Beal is no guarantee of anything but if the best you can hope for is Larry Nance - thats not winning a damn thing!

Stretching Beal may not even be possible. How much of a paycut does have to take? He's owed $110 million. Does he have to give up like $20 million? I mean, to me, $20 million is a lot of money. If I could just get $20 million I'd feel pretty good. Or even $15 million.

I know some say "Beal can make it up with his next contract." Can he? And does he know who will sign him? What if he only gets not so great offers from places he doesn't want to go?

I think it's VERY FAR from a certainty that Beal would even accept a buyout that is enough to get us to the amount we'd need to stretch.

[TeamTragic]

I love the positivity. Keep it up dudes!

[bwgood77]

If the Knicks lose in the conference finals, which they haven't made since 2000, I doubt they are going to pull a Wishbia and say "oh no, we better blow up this young team and trade for KD."

Unless there is some serious discontent among the players, but even then, I think they'd look for other moves.

[bwgood77]

I love the positivity. Keep it up dudes!

Well, this team has been Team Tragic for awhile now.

[Jesus_H_Macy]

Read on Twitter

2 1st round picks. So another reason to focus on getting picks accumulation in a KD trade over bringing him back!

What we knew thought was the Ayton-for-Nurkic+Allen trade was actually just the Toumani Camara trade in retrospect. Woof. What a Mat Whiffbia.

Our team is so **** stupid with trades. I hated that trade in real-time and that was without realizing Camara would become as good as he has. I just thought he had a lot of promise and at a position/role we needed. And just like all the other **** value trades this org has made for the past 7 years we got to hear the excuses. For this one it was that the Suns had to either include Goodwin or Camara in the trade for salary matching and they were higher on Goodwin. Bull **** **** they were. The Blazers wanted Camara and Jones is an utterly incompetent negotiator so we gave them what they wanted.

I'm not going to defend what Ayton became but here is what is indefensible for our org: if they all hated Ayton so much and had such reservations about him to the extent they didn't want to extend him after that playoff run in '21 then why the **** didn't they trade him that summer???????? Incompetent morons.

[TeamTragic]

Read on Twitter

2 1st round picks. So another reason to focus on getting picks accumulation in a KD trade over bringing him back!

Thank you Bart! Thank you Jones!

[Slim Charless]

Is there anyway that Giannis's price is too high and we can move Durant for Castle, the #14 and filler? Spurs can still take Harper and add a monster punch in scoring. We get a PGOTF and a pick in the teens.

Not likely! They have Castle as a franchise cornerstone piece. And with the embarrassment that our front office has the reputation of being, they'll very likely try to lowball us not even including Vassell in a trade but rather some package of either:

Keldon Johnson/ Barnes/ Sochan/ 1-2 firsts (I wouldn't accept this package without AT LEAST 2-3 1sts coming back).

Johnson/ Barnes/ Wesley/ filler/ 2 1sts.

But my package I'd demand would be:

Vassell/ Barnes/ Sochan/ 2 1sts (14th pick) / ATL 27' 1st or 2030 1st via DAL or MIN (swap rights) ** DAL unprotected or Minnesota only top 1 protected.

I'd then look to flip Vassell to Charlotte for Mark Williams/ Grant Williams/ 2 2nds- NOP 25' 2nd (33rd pick)CHO 25' 2nd (34th pick).
** I'd use the 33rd and 34th picks on:

33- Adou Thiero.
34- Kalkbrenner or Zisarky.
OR
Vassell/ Richards to Orlando for KCP/ Bidatze and the DEN 25' 1st (25th pick).
** I'd use this pick for Lendeborg or Raynaud.

I'm admittedly alot more bullish on KD's value then most here but......

Let's say that MIL wants both Castle, #2, #14, Vassell and a some of those tasty ATL picks that SAS owns. Plus makes the Spurs take Kuzma. Not a crazy suggestion as it's rumored MIL's GM is looking to break the other team for a Giannis trade.

So that's the requirement to get Giannis.

On the other hand, we offer up Durant for my package? Which would you rather give up if YOU were the Spurs GM, that above trade to get Giannis OR this:

Castle
#14
Filler (Keldon johnson+Harrison Barnes)

Plus, to sweeten the deal, I'd even agree to give our current CLV pick at #29 to them.

Doesn't that seem alot better to you? Or is that still a no-go....?

[bwgood77]

I don't think the Spurs would trade Castle for KD straight up (not that they could).

[Saberestar]

Duane Rankin:

When asked about Ott, league sources see him as a leading candidate in large part due to his ties to Michigan State. Ott was the Spartans' video coordinator for five years as he earned a master’s degree in athletic administration from the university.

However, Ott has worked for four NBA teams as an assistant since his time at Michigan State and is viewed throughout the league as someone who is ready to be a head coach.

League sources describe Ott as being a grinder who studies the game and has very sound offensive and defensive strategies. He’s strong in player development and film session, is organized and a teacher of the game.

Ott’s duties at Michigan State included helping the coaching staff break down game and practice film and scouting opponents. He left the Spartans in 2013 for a video coordinator position with the Atlanta Hawks, where he worked under Budenholzer for three seasons from 2013 to 2016.

Ott has been with three more NBA teams since – Brooklyn Nets (2016-22), Los Angeles Lakers (2022-24) and Cavs to reunite with Kenny Atkinson, who won NBA Coach of the Year this season as Cleveland posted the best record in the Eastern Conference at 64-18.

Ott also has ties to Suns superstar Kevin Durant, who was in Brooklyn from 2019 to right before the 2023 trade deadline when the Suns acquired him in a blockbuster deal. Durant’s future with the Suns is uncertain as the team entertained trade talks for him before the 2025 trade deadline, but he and Ott have worked together.

https://eu.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2025/05/22/phoenix-suns-coach-search-update/83795809007/

[BobbieL]

So imagine the conversation
Gregory : we can’t really sign anyone, other than minimum contracts, and have to trade dollar for dollar being in the second apron
Matty: let’s get out of that
Gregory: Well, we can get under the first apron by releasing Micic and Martin…
Matty: let’s do that and sign somebody
Gregory: well, we can only sign a free agent for 6mill and change
Matty : that sucks, nobody any good is going to do that. What else can we do
Gregory: well, we can buyout Beal, stretch him, release those other guys, and get to the full MLE at 12 mill… then sign Larry Nance or may be Yabusule…at least we can offer that…..oh and it saves a bunch of tax money and keeps us under the second apron. And makes it easier to trade now and mid season.
Matty: what’s the down side?
Gregory: well, we loose potential cap space 2 yrs from now, and have to absorb 20+ mill in cap space going forward. And, we are essentially running back the so called big three
Matty: Cap space 2 yrs from now?.. what good is that today? trade him then
Gregory: ummm we can’t
Matty: so we have to trade KD to get better? Cant I just keep him ?
Gregory : the return isn’t quite what you want, but I guess so, but then are you are keeping Beal… and stuck with minimum contract players, a couple draft picks, and some walk ons?
Matty: wait so we can keep Durant, add a 12 mill man, get a tax break, and stay under the second apron by stretching Beal, or status quo, run Beal Book and KD back with little help…or trade KD and keep Beal…why are we keeping him again? For cap space two years from now?
Gregory: that’s pretty much it
Matty: sheesh , this is hard…can’t I just spend more money?
Gregory: not really, except on a coach
Matty : well, third time is the charm right. I think I’m going to offer 50 cent hot dogs. What do you think of that? The fans are going to love me.

Well done and you made my point about why I think stretching Beal for 5 years just to have access to the MLE is more activity over accomplishment. Is Nance or Yabusele going to really move the needle

And I get trying to trade Allen and O'Neale for expirings by 2027 with riding out Beal is no guarantee of anything but if the best you can hope for is Larry Nance - thats not winning a damn thing!

Stretching Beal may not even be possible. How much of a paycut does have to take? He's owed $110 million. Does he have to give up like $20 million? I mean, to me, $20 million is a lot of money. If I could just get $20 million I'd feel pretty good. Or even $15 million.

I know some say "Beal can make it up with his next contract." Can he? And does he know who will sign him? What if he only gets not so great offers from places he doesn't want to go?

I think it's VERY FAR from a certainty that Beal would even accept a buyout that is enough to get us to the amount we'd need to stretch.

My guess the best Beal would get is like $10-12m on a 1+1

[bullsaficianado]

I don't think the Spurs would trade Castle for KD straight up (not that they could).

I don't think they are giving up Castle period. Keep dreaming. If I was them I wouldn't. They would give up #14 to get Durant I think and Vassell/Barnes and like 3 future 1st's.