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2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22

Which 2 teams in the top 4 scare you the most in a playoff series?

Clippers
24
52%
Nuggets
17
37%
Thunder
4
9%
Timberwolves
1
2%
 
Total votes: 46

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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start 

Post#2601 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jan 31, 2024 7:40 pm

Stix wrote:
Revived wrote:Even when healthy, Bradley Beal shooting 34% from 3 on very wide open looks has been so disappointing. He’s shooting the same % from 3 as Okogie did for the Suns last season lol.

Teams have been daring him to shoot with doubles on Booker/KD and he’s been straight bricks especially in the 4th qtr.

He’s shooting 71% from the FT line too which is disgusting for a SG making $50M/yr. Same % this season as Okogie who’s on a vet min contract lol.

I don’t understand how he’s this bad when he was supposed to be a floor spacer.


C'mon man. You know better than to criticize Beal here... he's well worth his contract! I mean as long as Shamet is gone right? Don't talk bad about Mr. Beal. Don't you see how much flexibility we have for trades now? Not like we could've gotten Rozier or anything.


We couldn't have gotten Rozier. They got a first for him. And no matter how many times you say we would have had more flexibility, we wouldn't have.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start 

Post#2602 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jan 31, 2024 7:42 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Revived wrote:Even when healthy, Bradley Beal shooting 34% from 3 on very wide open looks has been so disappointing. He’s shooting the same % from 3 as Okogie did for the Suns last season lol.

Teams have been daring him to shoot with doubles on Booker/KD and he’s been straight bricks especially in the 4th qtr.

He’s shooting 71% from the FT line too which is disgusting for a SG making $50M/yr. Same % this season as Okogie who’s on a vet min contract lol.

I don’t understand how he’s this bad when he was supposed to be a floor spacer.

1) Beal is shooting 35% from three, not 34%. There are rules to round off numbers.

2) He was shooting 38% from three just before his 2 mask games.

He struggled badly with the mask in Orlando (0/5) because he literally couldn't see the rim but he was already much better in the custom black mask in the last one against the Heat (2/9).

11 years in the league and everyone knows how great of a shooter he is... it's just a matter of time for him. He will average over 80% from the FT line before the end of the RS.


Yeah, he was at 39% or so before his last 3 games after breaking his nose. Our big 3 has a great net rating with all of them on the floor.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start 

Post#2603 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jan 31, 2024 7:50 pm

If KD can make it into February and stay healthy, it will be his first healthy February since 2018-19. He's been getting injured in late January/Feb since he came back from missing a season every year.

Fingers crossed.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start 

Post#2604 » by SunsRback4Good » Wed Jan 31, 2024 8:41 pm

BY KEVIN ZIMMERMAN
Arizona Sports

“Houston Rockets wing Jae’Sean Tate is reportedly “attracting interest” from the Phoenix Suns and Boston Celtics, reports The Athletic’s Shams Charania.

Charania touched on Houston’s willingness to move the reserve wing in a piece framing the team’s interest in pushing to make the playoffs in head coach Ime Udoka’s first season on the job.


Tate’s $6.5 million salary lines up with contracts the Suns could swap for, and they notably also have a $6.5 million trade exception to maneuver from the Cam Payne deal this offseason. That must be used by the Feb. 8 trade deadline unless the unlikely happens and Phoenix can get under the second tax apron.

Tate has played 43 games with nine starts. He’s averaging 4.7 points, 3.4 rebounds and 1.1 assists in 18.4 minutes per game.”
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start 

Post#2605 » by spanishninja » Wed Jan 31, 2024 9:11 pm

bwgood77 wrote:If KD can make it into February and stay healthy, it will be his first healthy February since 2018-19. He's been getting injured in late January/Feb since he came back from missing a season every year.

Fingers crossed.


well now you just jinxed all of us.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start 

Post#2606 » by schnakenpopanz » Wed Jan 31, 2024 9:24 pm

if it was or is a massive overpay we can see when it is all said and done.
if you compare it to the deals other teams made and got a champioship KD was a massive massive overpay.
not because of the players only, because of the flexibility they left us with.
the picks that went out should be fewer.
who was going to pay that for KD anyway? we bid against ourselves.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start 

Post#2607 » by Saberestar » Wed Jan 31, 2024 9:40 pm

SunsRback4Good wrote:BY KEVIN ZIMMERMAN
Arizona Sports

“Houston Rockets wing Jae’Sean Tate is reportedly “attracting interest” from the Phoenix Suns and Boston Celtics, reports The Athletic’s Shams Charania.

Charania touched on Houston’s willingness to move the reserve wing in a piece framing the team’s interest in pushing to make the playoffs in head coach Ime Udoka’s first season on the job.


Tate’s $6.5 million salary lines up with contracts the Suns could swap for, and they notably also have a $6.5 million trade exception to maneuver from the Cam Payne deal this offseason. That must be used by the Feb. 8 trade deadline unless the unlikely happens and Phoenix can get under the second tax apron.

Tate has played 43 games with nine starts. He’s averaging 4.7 points, 3.4 rebounds and 1.1 assists in 18.4 minutes per game.”

Interesting.

I have always being impressed by Tate's rebounding for his size.

Is he better than Okogie or KBD? That's the question.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start 

Post#2608 » by Saberestar » Wed Jan 31, 2024 9:41 pm

Gambo

The Suns do not have interest in Jae'Sean Tate.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start 

Post#2609 » by SunsRback4Good » Wed Jan 31, 2024 10:01 pm

Saberestar wrote:Gambo

The Suns do not have interest in Jae'Sean Tate.


Glad Gambo shut it down quickly. Tate is a decent guard, but besides shooting a nice % of 46 and rebounding like you stated for a guard is impressive given his 6”4 height. But overall nothing else jumps out at you he can be at best Little, Goodwin, or Okogie and that’s last thing we need at this point. Suns must find a 3&D player before the trade deadline and not mess around with this no names who won’t help us in the playoffs.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start 

Post#2610 » by SunsRback4Good » Wed Jan 31, 2024 11:39 pm

Poll for the game thread is up :sour:
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start 

Post#2611 » by Revived » Thu Feb 1, 2024 12:26 am

Saberestar wrote:
Revived wrote:Even when healthy, Bradley Beal shooting 34% from 3 on very wide open looks has been so disappointing. He’s shooting the same % from 3 as Okogie did for the Suns last season lol.

Teams have been daring him to shoot with doubles on Booker/KD and he’s been straight bricks especially in the 4th qtr.

He’s shooting 71% from the FT line too which is disgusting for a SG making $50M/yr. Same % this season as Okogie who’s on a vet min contract lol.

I don’t understand how he’s this bad when he was supposed to be a floor spacer.

1) Beal is shooting 35% from three, not 34%. There are rules to round off numbers.

2) He was shooting 38% from three just before his 2 mask games.

He struggled badly with the mask in Orlando (0/5) because he literally couldn't see the rim but he was already much better in the custom black mask in the last one against the Heat (2/9).

11 years in the league and everyone knows how great of a shooter he is... it's just a matter of time for him. He will average over 80% from the FT line before the end of the RS.

1) Where’s the rule book that states you must round up shooting numbers?

2) “much better” being 2/9 for a guy on a $50M/yr is concerning.

11 years in the league and everyone knows how great of a shooter he is

And yet for his career he is a 37% 3pt shooter (and unfortunately, there’s nothing to round here :( )…that is not “great” shooting numbers in the year 2024 unfortunately. Actually, it’s probably not “great” shooting numbers for the last 5 years or even longer.

He gets wide open looks. Grayson Allen has took advantage of this and made teams pay so now they leave Beal open.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start 

Post#2612 » by Revived » Thu Feb 1, 2024 12:32 am

If Suns can trade for a bigger forward that can defend and hit open 3s, best thing to do would be to bring Beal off the bench. Our bench sucks ass (worst in the nba currently iirc) so having him come off that and provide a spark would be great. Plus he may perform better in more mins against other teams bench units as well. Of course he can still close games out for the Suns or whatever too.

Plus we need a defender at the wing position. Asking KD to do so much offensively and defensively at age 34 just isn’t logical especially longterm.

If Okogie can go back to hitting 3s at last year’s rate then I’d say that’s an option but ideally we can find someone better in the trade market using the 2nd rd picks and Little’s contract maybe.

Speaking of Little, would be nice if Vogel can give him more burn. He was a very solid player on the Blazers.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start 

Post#2613 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Feb 1, 2024 12:37 am

schnakenpopanz wrote:if it was or is a massive overpay we can see when it is all said and done.
if you compare it to the deals other teams made and got a champioship KD was a massive massive overpay.
not because of the players only, because of the flexibility they left us with.
the picks that went out should be fewer.
who was going to pay that for KD anyway? we bid against ourselves.


We kind of did the same thing too with Bradley Beal! I mean don't get me wrong, I like him as a player and really like his toughness and tenacity to play through injury and just "tough things out," so much respect to him and I'm thankful he's on our team. BUT I'm not happy about his salary, and even less happy that we DID bid against ourselves in trading for him as well. Now I do understand thee value of offloading my least favorite player of the monty era...................... his son in law Shamet! And I do understand that we offloaded Paul in exchange for a younger more dynamic offensive guard option. AND I do also understand that we do still have pick swaps for in even years through the next 6 years (least favorable). And we endd up only giving up maybe around 6 2nds (+ 1 to the Pacers resulting in coulilaby). So altogether4 swaps and 7 2nds or equivalent to maybe 3 additional 1sts cumulatively if you figure that 2 nds these days are close to a first in value exchange (IF you have a halfway decent scouting department and draft record).



However, under that lens, it cumulatively becomes something like: 3 firsts/ 4 pick swaps/ 1 additional future 2nd (pacers) for a very solid yet also very injury prone star player on an enormous contract with a no trade clause who openly stated he only wanted to play for phoenix and obviously couldn't really be traded anywhere else BECAUSE OF his no trade clause!! and whom the wizards ownership and new GM were desperate to move off of to begin facilitating their long overdue rebuild! Shamet by the way could have been offloaded for some miniscule asset as an expiring deal due to his non guaranteed contract years. AND Paul could of fairly easily been offloaded as an expiring deal to some team. But even if they didn't feel like they had options for that, Paul still could of alternatively just been waived or waived and stretched that summer for around 15 million or around maybe 5 million or so over the next three years? Those details are honestly unimportant to me compared to Beals' salary/ known injury history/ and THE LACK OF OVERALL LEVERAGE THAT THE WIZARDS TRULY HAD IN THE DEAL. I mention this last part as most important as the wizards really had no real leverage in the deal, AND the only other team somewhat interested in Beal at that time (the heeat) hard pivoted to pursuing Lillard.

So for my part, giving up the cumulative value of everything under those specific trade conditions makes it a bad or losing trade for the resulting inability to really make any sort of moves not only due to lack of cap flexibility/ exponentially increasing apron penalties. But also and most importantly bidding against ourselves for Beal because he only wanted Phoenix and held all the leverage himself with his no trade clause and no legitimate other offers to honestly contend with. How can Beal offset this gross imbalance by our shoddy GM and trigger happy owner to make this become a success??

Very simply stay healthy, be more assertive in a primary ballhandling role as he's clearly our best downhill isolation player that is elite getting to the rim! And in doing this he can effectively cause the opposing defenss to collapse allowing for better spot up situations, more free throw generation, but most importantly freeing Booker up to excel at his natural role as an elite off ball scoring assasin and secondary facilitator. Beal needs to embrace his elite penetration and ballhandling abilities to help iniate offense upon brwaking down defenses or pushing the pace while Booker and Durant flair out more with our bench players cutting to the rim, etc. This will also contribute to better defensive chaos, and better flow in our offense too. :nod:
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start 

Post#2614 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Feb 1, 2024 1:00 am

Revived wrote:If Suns can trade for a bigger forward that can defend and hit open 3s, best thing to do would be to bring Beal off the bench. Our bench sucks ass (worst in the nba currently iirc) so having him come off that and provide a spark would be great. Plus he may perform better in more mins against other teams bench units as well. Of course he can still close games out for the Suns or whatever too.

Plus we need a defender at the wing position. Asking KD to do so much offensively and defensively at age 34 just isn’t logical especially longterm.

If Okogie can go back to hitting 3s at last year’s rate then I’d say that’s an option but ideally we can find someone better in the trade market using the 2nd rd picks and Little’s contract maybe.

Speaking of Little, would be nice if Vogel can give him more burn. He was a very solid player on the Blazers.


A big forward who can defend and hit open 3's? It seems like we've been needing that for close to 5-6 seaons now or possibly longer. If only we had a forward like what Indiana has in Jalen Smith!....LOL Wait, didn't we have a Jalen Smith, but we chose to let him walk so we could sign Monty's forever love (godson Landry Shamet)?? :lol: Luckily there are actually some forwards that are currently unsigned that fit that skillset/archetype whom are unrestricted free agents currently and some we could actually add via the 24' draft/ undrafted pool (IF only Jones can contain himself at the thought of trading our least favorable pick just so he won't have to do work on the draft!! :-?

Whenever everyone is ready and it's closer to the actual draft, I have been building lists of very intruiging impact prospects in all VIABLE ranges of the draft for us. And maybe I'll start up a draft thread with a few surprising yet realistic options soon. :wink:
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start 

Post#2615 » by schnakenpopanz » Thu Feb 1, 2024 1:10 am

irony that halliburton and smith ended on the same team. while suns are empty handed with one generetional star and one solid starter. i hate what jones is doin or better say not doing in young player evaluation and draft.
means less work for him and play 2k-ish gm.
we will remember these acts in 4 years.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start 

Post#2616 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Feb 1, 2024 1:30 am

Read on Twitter


Briefly discusses the suns around 18:30 minutes in. :D
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start 

Post#2617 » by Saberestar » Thu Feb 1, 2024 3:49 am

Revived wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Revived wrote:Even when healthy, Bradley Beal shooting 34% from 3 on very wide open looks has been so disappointing. He’s shooting the same % from 3 as Okogie did for the Suns last season lol.

Teams have been daring him to shoot with doubles on Booker/KD and he’s been straight bricks especially in the 4th qtr.

He’s shooting 71% from the FT line too which is disgusting for a SG making $50M/yr. Same % this season as Okogie who’s on a vet min contract lol.

I don’t understand how he’s this bad when he was supposed to be a floor spacer.

1) Beal is shooting 35% from three, not 34%. There are rules to round off numbers.

2) He was shooting 38% from three just before his 2 mask games.

He struggled badly with the mask in Orlando (0/5) because he literally couldn't see the rim but he was already much better in the custom black mask in the last one against the Heat (2/9).

11 years in the league and everyone knows how great of a shooter he is... it's just a matter of time for him. He will average over 80% from the FT line before the end of the RS.

1) Where’s the rule book that states you must round up shooting numbers?

2) “much better” being 2/9 for a guy on a $50M/yr is concerning.

11 years in the league and everyone knows how great of a shooter he is

And yet for his career he is a 37% 3pt shooter (and unfortunately, there’s nothing to round here :( )…that is not “great” shooting numbers in the year 2024 unfortunately. Actually, it’s probably not “great” shooting numbers for the last 5 years or even longer.

He gets wide open looks. Grayson Allen has took advantage of this and made teams pay so now they leave Beal open.

Yeah, it's a rule.
34.7% is 35%, not 34% like you said.

If the last digit is less than 5, round the previous digit down. However, if it's 5 or more than you should round the previous digit up. So, if the number you are about to round is followed by 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 round the number up. And if it is followed by 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 round the number down.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start 

Post#2618 » by KLEON » Thu Feb 1, 2024 4:24 am

bwgood77 wrote:If KD can make it into February and stay healthy, it will be his first healthy February since 2018-19. He's been getting injured in late January/Feb since he came back from missing a season every year.

Fingers crossed.

Why, why, why did you mention this? Now I'm worried :cry:
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start 

Post#2619 » by garrick » Thu Feb 1, 2024 6:34 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
schnakenpopanz wrote:if it was or is a massive overpay we can see when it is all said and done.
if you compare it to the deals other teams made and got a champioship KD was a massive massive overpay.
not because of the players only, because of the flexibility they left us with.
the picks that went out should be fewer.
who was going to pay that for KD anyway? we bid against ourselves.


We kind of did the same thing too with Bradley Beal! I mean don't get me wrong, I like him as a player and really like his toughness and tenacity to play through injury and just "tough things out," so much respect to him and I'm thankful he's on our team. BUT I'm not happy about his salary, and even less happy that we DID bid against ourselves in trading for him as well. Now I do understand thee value of offloading my least favorite player of the monty era...................... his son in law Shamet! And I do understand that we offloaded Paul in exchange for a younger more dynamic offensive guard option. AND I do also understand that we do still have pick swaps for in even years through the next 6 years (least favorable). And we endd up only giving up maybe around 6 2nds (+ 1 to the Pacers resulting in coulilaby). So altogether4 swaps and 7 2nds or equivalent to maybe 3 additional 1sts cumulatively if you figure that 2 nds these days are close to a first in value exchange (IF you have a halfway decent scouting department and draft record).



However, under that lens, it cumulatively becomes something like: 3 firsts/ 4 pick swaps/ 1 additional future 2nd (pacers) for a very solid yet also very injury prone star player on an enormous contract with a no trade clause who openly stated he only wanted to play for phoenix and obviously couldn't really be traded anywhere else BECAUSE OF his no trade clause!! and whom the wizards ownership and new GM were desperate to move off of to begin facilitating their long overdue rebuild! Shamet by the way could have been offloaded for some miniscule asset as an expiring deal due to his non guaranteed contract years. AND Paul could of fairly easily been offloaded as an expiring deal to some team. But even if they didn't feel like they had options for that, Paul still could of alternatively just been waived or waived and stretched that summer for around 15 million or around maybe 5 million or so over the next three years? Those details are honestly unimportant to me compared to Beals' salary/ known injury history/ and THE LACK OF OVERALL LEVERAGE THAT THE WIZARDS TRULY HAD IN THE DEAL. I mention this last part as most important as the wizards really had no real leverage in the deal, AND the only other team somewhat interested in Beal at that time (the heeat) hard pivoted to pursuing Lillard.

So for my part, giving up the cumulative value of everything under those specific trade conditions makes it a bad or losing trade for the resulting inability to really make any sort of moves not only due to lack of cap flexibility/ exponentially increasing apron penalties. But also and most importantly bidding against ourselves for Beal because he only wanted Phoenix and held all the leverage himself with his no trade clause and no legitimate other offers to honestly contend with. How can Beal offset this gross imbalance by our shoddy GM and trigger happy owner to make this become a success??

Very simply stay healthy, be more assertive in a primary ballhandling role as he's clearly our best downhill isolation player that is elite getting to the rim! And in doing this he can effectively cause the opposing defenss to collapse allowing for better spot up situations, more free throw generation, but most importantly freeing Booker up to excel at his natural role as an elite off ball scoring assasin and secondary facilitator. Beal needs to embrace his elite penetration and ballhandling abilities to help iniate offense upon brwaking down defenses or pushing the pace while Booker and Durant flair out more with our bench players cutting to the rim, etc. This will also contribute to better defensive chaos, and better flow in our offense too. :nod:


I was really surprised we didn't put any protections on our picks but I guess we really couldn't because it would drag on past 2030 and the Nets probably wouldn't have wanted to defer any of the incoming draft picks we were giving them?

It will be very interesting to see what we do with our 2024, 2026 and 2028 draft picks and if we intend to keep our pick or if we try to cheat the system and trade the draft rights to our pick on draft night?
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start 

Post#2620 » by Revived » Thu Feb 1, 2024 7:45 am

Saberestar wrote:
Revived wrote:
Saberestar wrote:1) Beal is shooting 35% from three, not 34%. There are rules to round off numbers.

2) He was shooting 38% from three just before his 2 mask games.

He struggled badly with the mask in Orlando (0/5) because he literally couldn't see the rim but he was already much better in the custom black mask in the last one against the Heat (2/9).

11 years in the league and everyone knows how great of a shooter he is... it's just a matter of time for him. He will average over 80% from the FT line before the end of the RS.

1) Where’s the rule book that states you must round up shooting numbers?

2) “much better” being 2/9 for a guy on a $50M/yr is concerning.

11 years in the league and everyone knows how great of a shooter he is

And yet for his career he is a 37% 3pt shooter (and unfortunately, there’s nothing to round here :( )…that is not “great” shooting numbers in the year 2024 unfortunately. Actually, it’s probably not “great” shooting numbers for the last 5 years or even longer.

He gets wide open looks. Grayson Allen has took advantage of this and made teams pay so now they leave Beal open.

Yeah, it's a rule.
34.7% is 35%, not 34% like you said.

If the last digit is less than 5, round the previous digit down. However, if it's 5 or more than you should round the previous digit up. So, if the number you are about to round is followed by 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 round the number up. And if it is followed by 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 round the number down.

What’s the source on that which says NBA shooting percentages need to be rounded up? Or is the excerpt from some college semester finals grading system? :lol:

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