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Is Hornacek the problem?

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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#281 » by bigfoot » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:16 pm

JMac1 wrote:[
Our team has no stars, no stars in development, no playoffs, another late lotto pick, and no one wants to play here because we do **** like bring in 100 PG's and guys like Goran leaves and talks trash about the Suns mgmt, making us a laughing stock and the butt of all jokes....does that compute? I thought so. But hey keep on rationalizing the irrational and maybe you will continue to be as blind as your buddy :lol:

Maybe you know more than Goran and all the rest who talked about how the Suns had no clue.....but hey I guess you have all of the facts and I don't, or I just can't see how sensible the Suns have been during the last five years and how our great coach has us winning so many close games this year :crazy:


Now here is your quote saying our players are junk. No stars ... we have nothing ... no developing players. So I asked you a simple question and you didnt answer. Is this thread about Horny being the problem or the players being the problem. I read you stuff loud and clear but missed your answer.
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#282 » by RunDogGun » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:24 pm

bigfoot wrote:
JMac1 wrote:
bigfoot wrote:How about admitting Horny isn't the problem ...

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/ ... s-not-jeff


Are you serious :banghead:

Hornacek is a problem because the brothas don't respect him. New flash to some of you; it takes a special kind of coach to understand the cultural differences in some African American players vs others. If you cannot relate and communicate to ALL of your players good and bad-most of the really good players have the bad attitudes, just like many rich people are spoiled-then you are going to be an ineffective coach, that is Jeff.

Hornacek can't relate, communicate and thus gets no respect.....that is his fault, not the player. Everyone doesn't play to the same beat of the drum. You can gain respect from anyone, you just need to know how to do it. Gone are the days where you respect the coach just because he is the coach. If you have those expectations, enjoy the dysfunction and losing....if you don't get me see Bill Belichick or Greg Popovich, although Greg has pretty easy going payers.


Plain and simple Jmac ... Here is your post saying Horny doesn't understand the cultural differences (can't relate to the brothas). I call bullsh*t out front if you want to refer to the Morri as the brothas. I can read clearly what you said. Now you want to call me out for your black versus white nonsense. Your f'd in the head dude and need to read the sh*t you write more thoroughly.

Can't wait for him to blame what he wrote on you somehow. :roll:
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#283 » by bigfoot » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:55 pm

JMac1 wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:When did the season end? When did our games back suddenly become greater than the games left to be played?

I'm getting sick of all this championship or bust mentality. How you either have to have stars or be working on getting them. Tell me about all those stars that have rings. Melo? Harden? Westbrook? Durant? CP3? Blake? Curry? Love? Dwight? How about those retired stars. Barkley? Stockton? Malone? Reggie Miller? Allen Iverson? Dominique?

But this is the Hornacek is the problem thread, right? So great coaches win championships, right? Tell me about all those great coaches who have won championships. Jerry Sloan? Stan Van Gundy? George Karl? Rick Adelman? Don Nelson? Cotton Fitzsimmons? I mean, Steve Kerr will definitely win a championship, right? That's got to happen. Same with Thibodeau, right? And Frank Vogel and Scott Brooks and Mike Budenholzer and David Blatt and Dave Joerger and on and on and on.

Truth is you can pretend to think that basketball can be whittled down to Stars + Coach = Championship, but that ain't always the case. It's a crapshoot. You've got to get a lot of things to roll your way just to get a shot at the finals. The other thing is you don't know where great players pop up, especially in the current era of the NBA. Unless you're going to tell me that you knew Kawhi Leonard would become a finals MVP after his rookie season or that Paul George would be in the running for League MVP or that James Harden and Klay Thompson and Jimmy Butler would become the best 2 guards in the NBA.

If you want to tell me that Eric Bledsoe, Brandon Knight, The Brothers Morris, Alex Len, TJ Warren, Archie Goodwin and Reggie Bullock have already played their best basketball and will never be All-Stars or All-NBA players when none of them are over the age of 25 yet, or that Jeff Hornacek after 2 seasons as a head coach will never coach a title contender, then be my guest, but don't f*cking expect me to follow that train of logic.

Talk about being real. :clap: :rockon:


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Come on JMac. How is MrMiyagi's post wrong? Why post the sheep picture?

1) You don't believe we could have a future all-star in one of Bledsoe, Knight, Kief, Len, Warren, Goodwin, Bogdanovic?

2) You don't believe Horny learned alot from Fitzsimmons and Sloan? You don't believe what John Stockon wrote about Horny? You don't believe what Pop said about Horny?

3) You don't believe a bunch of young players (yes our team is young), who have continued to play .500 basketball since the trades, can't continue to improve? I mean LeBron didn't win a championship until he was 27 and then had to be surrounded by other all-stars from other teams in Bosh and Wade?

For goodness sake put together something logical about your sheep gif.
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#284 » by JMac1 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:37 pm

MrMiyagi wrote:
JMac1 wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:I have no clue how you can think Utah is in a good place, but we aren't. Maybe you should become a Jazz fan.


WTF? Are you serious? How old are you? Utah has a young starting five and are going up not down. You can't see they are in a better spot than us? WOW!!

And because I say they are I should become a Jazz fan......you must be 10 years old.

Is that not what we have?
Bled-25
Knight-23
PJ-29
Kieff-25
Len-21

Oh, sorry Old Man PJ is aging our other 4 players by 5 years, so it's actually
Bled-30
Knight-28
PJ-29
Kieff-30
Len-26

You're right, we're old as **** and all of our players are on the decline. We have no hope! :crazy:


:lol: SMH too much.

1. I said I'd keep Knight, Len, and Warren.
2. I said Bledsoe and the Mo Bros were not making any allstar teams
3. I will post this on the big forum so you can see what everyone else says. Let's see who is :crazy:
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#285 » by JMac1 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:52 pm

bigfoot wrote:
JMac1 wrote:
bigfoot wrote:How about admitting Horny isn't the problem ...

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/ ... s-not-jeff


Are you serious :banghead:

Hornacek is a problem because the brothas don't respect him. New flash to some of you; it takes a special kind of coach to understand the cultural differences in some African American players vs others. If you cannot relate and communicate to ALL of your players good and bad-most of the really good players have the bad attitudes, just like many rich people are spoiled-then you are going to be an ineffective coach, that is Jeff.

Hornacek can't relate, communicate and thus gets no respect.....that is his fault, not the player. Everyone doesn't play to the same beat of the drum. You can gain respect from anyone, you just need to know how to do it. Gone are the days where you respect the coach just because he is the coach. If you have those expectations, enjoy the dysfunction and losing....if you don't get me see Bill Belichick or Greg Popovich, although Greg has pretty easy going payers.


Plain and simple Jmac ... Here is your post saying Horny doesn't understand the cultural differences (can't relate to the brothas). I call bullsh*t out front if you want to refer to the Morri as the brothas. I can read clearly what you said. Now you want to call me out for your black versus white nonsense. Your f'd in the head dude and need to read the sh*t you write more thoroughly.


Thanks for proven my point.


Your Quote:

So before you said Horny couldn't relate to our players and now you say he could coach a title contending team with different players. So what is it? Our players are junk or our coach is junk?

I'm happy we have a bunch of young players who are in the playoff hunt in a very tough Western conference even after the turmoil caused by Dragic and IT.


See the difference between OUR players and SOME Players :crazy:

I repeat the cultural difference in SOME African American players..... :banghead: All AA don't come from poverty or the ghetto, hood, or low socio-economic statuses. I was particularly talking about the Mo Bros. That is why I pointed out how he got punked... Next

Reading Comprehension!!
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#286 » by JMac1 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:57 pm

bigfoot wrote:
JMac1 wrote:[
Our team has no stars, no stars in development, no playoffs, another late lotto pick, and no one wants to play here because we do **** like bring in 100 PG's and guys like Goran leaves and talks trash about the Suns mgmt, making us a laughing stock and the butt of all jokes....does that compute? I thought so. But hey keep on rationalizing the irrational and maybe you will continue to be as blind as your buddy :lol:

Maybe you know more than Goran and all the rest who talked about how the Suns had no clue.....but hey I guess you have all of the facts and I don't, or I just can't see how sensible the Suns have been during the last five years and how our great coach has us winning so many close games this year :crazy:


Now here is your quote saying our players are junk. No stars ... we have nothing ... no developing players. So I asked you a simple question and you didnt answer. Is this thread about Horny being the problem or the players being the problem. I read you stuff loud and clear but missed your answer.


Are you Effing serious?!!! OMG!!!!!!! Where does it say they are JUNK?!!! Are you insane? WTH? Do we having any stars? NO! Am I wrong no! Does that equate to calling them JUNK?! Only in your mind.

The most ridiculous responses to a post ever!

Are you :crazy: You equate to having no stars junk, then you say I called them junk :crazy:
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#287 » by JMac1 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:01 am

RunDogGun wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
JMac1 wrote:
Are you serious :banghead:

Hornacek is a problem because the brothas don't respect him. New flash to some of you; it takes a special kind of coach to understand the cultural differences in some African American players vs others. If you cannot relate and communicate to ALL of your players good and bad-most of the really good players have the bad attitudes, just like many rich people are spoiled-then you are going to be an ineffective coach, that is Jeff.

Hornacek can't relate, communicate and thus gets no respect.....that is his fault, not the player. Everyone doesn't play to the same beat of the drum. You can gain respect from anyone, you just need to know how to do it. Gone are the days where you respect the coach just because he is the coach. If you have those expectations, enjoy the dysfunction and losing....if you don't get me see Bill Belichick or Greg Popovich, although Greg has pretty easy going payers.


Plain and simple Jmac ... Here is your post saying Horny doesn't understand the cultural differences (can't relate to the brothas). I call bullsh*t out front if you want to refer to the Morri as the brothas. I can read clearly what you said. Now you want to call me out for your black versus white nonsense. Your f'd in the head dude and need to read the sh*t you write more thoroughly.

Can't wait for him to blame what he wrote on you somehow. :roll:



Note to self: Rundog and Bigfoot have zero reading comprehension skills. Oops, I can't call the Morri brothas because you said so....INSANE!

Again our players vs SOME AFRICAN AMERICAN players. You are f'd in the head "dude" and anyone who read this knows it. Wake the F UP!

You generalized all of our players not me. Then try to put that crap off on me is incredible!! Wow!
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#288 » by JMac1 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:21 am

Quote from BW


I probably like Utah's young core better than our's, but that's kind of beside the point


That makes your crazy!
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#289 » by JMac1 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:41 am

Check out this poll!

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1379062#start_here

I am not trying to beat us up here, but sometimes you need your head bashed in to understand!!
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#290 » by RunDogGun » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:50 am

JMac1 wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
Plain and simple Jmac ... Here is your post saying Horny doesn't understand the cultural differences (can't relate to the brothas). I call bullsh*t out front if you want to refer to the Morri as the brothas. I can read clearly what you said. Now you want to call me out for your black versus white nonsense. Your f'd in the head dude and need to read the sh*t you write more thoroughly.

Can't wait for him to blame what he wrote on you somehow. :roll:



Note to self: Rundog and Bigfoot have zero reading comprehension skills. Oops, I can't call the Morri brothas because you said so....INSANE!

Again our players vs SOME AFRICAN AMERICAN players. You are f'd in the head "dude" and anyone who read this knows it. Wake the F UP!

You generalized all of our players not me. Then try to put that crap off on me is incredible!! Wow!

I didn't say anything about what you wrote, so your RC comment towards me is stupid. Not shocked that you would do something stupid.

All I said was I couldn't wait until you blamed what you wrote on Bigfoot. And then at the end, with your last part, you basically did. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#291 » by Damkac » Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:08 am

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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#292 » by starbosa10 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:21 am

wait so the reason we aren't better is because hornacek can't communicate with black players? ok lol
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#293 » by JMac1 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:28 am

starbosa10 wrote:wait so the reason we aren't better is because hornacek can't communicate with black players? ok lol



Add another reading comprehension deficit poster to the list.

WTF?! Are you people that obtuse and ridiculous? I just don't get it....really I don't. You can't be serious especially when I pointed out not ALL but some.

All ignorant people please read or STFU! Get a effing education. Get a clue.

Yes peopls there are cultural differences between people and if you cannot relate you will fail in your communication. SMH....

Cross-Cultural Communication

By
Michelle LeBaron

July 2003



[b]All communication is cultural
-- it draws on ways we have learned to speak and give nonverbal messages. We do not always communicate the same way from day to day, since factors like context, individual personality, and mood interact with the variety of cultural influences we have internalized that influence our choices. Communication is interactive, so an important influence on its effectiveness is our relationship with others. Do they hear and understand what we are trying to say? Are they listening well? Are we listening well in response? Do their responses show that they understand the words and the meanings behind the words we have chosen? Is the mood positive and receptive? Is there trust between them and us? Are there differences that relate to ineffective communication, divergent goals or interests, or fundamentally different ways of seeing the world? The answers to these questions will give us some clues about the effectiveness of our communication and the ease with which we may be able to move through conflict.[/b]


Additional insights into cross-cultural communication are offered by Beyond Intractability project participants.

The challenge is that even with all the good will in the world, miscommunication is likely to happen, especially when there are significant cultural differences between communicators. Miscommunication may lead to conflict, or aggravate conflict that already exists. We make -- whether it is clear to us or not -- quite different meaning of the world, our places in it, and our relationships with others. In this module, cross-cultural communication will be outlined and demonstrated by examples of ideas, attitudes, and behaviors involving four variables:

Time and Space
Fate and Personal Responsibility
Face and Face-Saving
Nonverbal Communication

As our familiarity with these different starting points increases, we are cultivating cultural fluency -- awareness of the ways cultures operate in communication and conflict, and the ability to respond effectively to these differences.
Time and Space[1]





Some elements of nonverbal communication are consistent across cultures. For example, research has shown that the emotions of enjoyment, anger, fear, sadness, disgust, and surprise are expressed in similar ways by people around the world.[7] Differences surface with respect to which emotions are acceptable to display in various cultural settings, and by whom. For instance, it may be more social acceptable in some settings in the United States for women to show fear, but not anger, and for men to display anger, but not fear.[8] At the same time, interpretation of facial expressions across cultures is difficult. In China and Japan, for example, a facial expression that would be recognized around the world as conveying happiness may actually express anger or mask sadness, both of which are unacceptable to show overtly.[9]

These differences of interpretation may lead to conflict, or escalate existing conflict.
Suppose a Japanese person is explaining her absence from negotiations due to a death in her family. She may do so with a smile, based on her cultural belief that it is not appropriate to inflict the pain of grief on others. For a Westerner who understands smiles to mean friendliness and happiness, this smile may seem incongruous and even cold, under the circumstances. Even though some facial expressions may be similar across cultures, their interpretations remain culture-specific. It is important to understand something about cultural starting-points and values in order to interpret emotions expressed in cross-cultural interactions.


http://www.beyondintractability.org/ess ... munication



I think it takes a real flight of fancy to dismiss the culture argument. If you are rich and you've been rich for generations, you almost certainly develop cultural habits. Likewise, if you're poor and you've been poor for generations, you do the same. If you've been wealthy for generations and you were suddenly asked to function in the ghetto, you may have problems because you didn't know the rules. You weren't acculturated. Likewise, if you're poor and you're trying to climb up the economic ladder, you may also have problems. What will keep you safe in the projects, may well get you fired from a job, or kicked out of school. I think this would be true whether you are poor in West Baltimore, or poor in West Virginia.

But one reason that a lot of African-Americans get pissed off at cultural arguments is because the "culture of poverty" is often so easily transposed over the "culture of black people." (Thus I would never say all black people. My daughter never experienced that culture.) I went to public school all my life. So does my son. I've had my share of contact with the culture of poverty. But the culture that encourages people to jump the broom at weddings, isn't the same as the culture that makes drug-dealing a choice occupation. The culture at, say, Spelman isn't the same as the culture of the projects here in Harlem. And the culture at Spelman isn't the same as the culture at Howard. (again, culture is different, but it exists)

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainmen ... erty/6860/



Cultural Awareness is the foundation of communication and it involves the ability of standing back from ourselves and becoming aware of our cultural values, beliefs and perceptions. Why do we do things in that way? How do we see the world? Why do we react in that particular way?

Cultural awareness becomes central when we have to interact with people from other cultures. People see, interpret and evaluate things in a different ways. What is considered an appropriate behavior in one culture is frequently inappropriate in another one.
Misunderstandings arise when I use my meanings to make sense of your reality.



Characteristics of diversity are (but not limited to): age; cognitive style; culture; disability (mental, learning, physical); economic background; education; ethnicity; gender identity; geographic background; language(s) spoken; marital/partnered status; physical appearance; political affiliation; race; religious beliefs; sexual orientation or veteran's status
http://www.fhsu.edu/diversity-affairs/w ... diversity/



I hope you guys learned something. But:

What is racial colorblindness?

Racial issues are often uncomfortable to discuss and rife with stress and controversy. Many ideas have been advanced to address this sore spot in the American psyche. Currently, the most pervasive approach is known as colorblindness. Colorblindness is the racial ideology that posits the best way to end discrimination is by treating individuals as equally as possible, without regard to race, culture, or ethnicity.

At its face value, colorblindness seems like a good thing — really taking MLK seriously on his call to judge people on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin. It focuses on commonalities between people, such as their shared humanity.

However, colorblindness alone is not sufficient to heal racial wounds on a national or personal level. It is only a half-measure that in the end operates as a form of racism.
Problems with the colorblind approach

Racism? Strong words, yes, but let's look the issue straight in its partially unseeing eye. In a colorblind society, White people, who are unlikely to experience disadvantages due to race, can effectively ignore racism in American life, justify the current social order, and feel more comfortable with their relatively privileged standing in society (Fryberg, 2010). Most minorities, however, who regularly encounter difficulties due to race, experience colorblind ideologies quite differently. Colorblindness creates a society that denies their negative racial experiences, rejects their cultural heritage, and invalidates their unique perspectives.


https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cu ... orm-racism

That last quote and article is right on. Invalidate my unique perspective fellas..... I can't call the African American players brothas, right? Effing DENIAL!!

SMH!!
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#294 » by MrMiyagi » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:03 am

Those are great reads (not kidding, serious). The only thing I would say is nobody can definitively say that this is what caused any on court altercation between Jeff Hornacek and his players. I'd be willing to bet that any problems are grounded in on the court occurrences.

Secondly, can we stop with the attacks on reading comprehension. We all don't always read everything verbatim, we love reading between the lines and we hate being disagreed with. I'm guilty of this, telling JMac to go become a Jazz fan because of his criticisms of our team. Half the fun of these message boards is the arguing, but let's try to keep it to basketball.

So, back to basketball. I really don't think that Utah has any edge over us, nor do I think we really have any edge over them. I think we are in very similar spots. I see Hayward and Bledsoe as similar tier players. I see Len and Gobert as similarly tiered players. I see Kieff and Favors as similarly tiered players. I see Knight as a better player than Burke and Burks. I'd throw Archie and TJ in the same group as Exum. I get that they have different strengths and weaknesses, but that's just how I see it shaking out. The other thing is, most of these guys are similar ages and experience levels so I have no clue how someone looks at Utah and says they are infinitely better off than we are.
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#295 » by Revived » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:08 am


Damn 55-12 in favor of Utah :o
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#296 » by In Len We Trust » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:10 pm

Everybody knows about Gobert, Favors, Hayward but only Suns fans know about Goodwin, Warren, Len and just how good all 3 of them can be.
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#297 » by starbosa10 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:07 pm

JMac1 wrote:
starbosa10 wrote:wait so the reason we aren't better is because hornacek can't communicate with black players? ok lol



Add another reading comprehension deficit poster to the list.

WTF?! Are you people that obtuse and ridiculous? I just don't get it....really I don't. You can't be serious especially when I pointed out not ALL but some.

All ignorant people please read or STFU! Get a effing education. Get a clue.

Yes peopls there are cultural differences between peopl
e and if you cannot relate you will fail in your communication. SMH....


I'm a senior in college with a pretty good gpa while majoring in psychology and taking sociology classes. Where did I say there weren't cultural differences? I just highly doubt Hornacek would've been able to become an NBA coach if he had issues communicating with black players. Like someone else has posted the issues between hornacek and certain players probably is due to on court issues and differences in basketball philosophy and tactics.
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#298 » by bwgood77 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:39 pm

The main reason Utah appears to have a brighter future is because they had higher draft picks, so they got better players. Len was our only pick higher than like 13th.

Favors and Exum were top 5 picks and Hayward and Burke were top 10, so I would expect their younger core to look/be more impressive.

I'm not really sure what any of that has to do with Hornacek though or why JMac thinks people are arguing about it. I think JMac is having an imaginary argument.

Did anyone here say they thought we had better young players than Utah? Maybe I missed it.

Sure, we hope ours will become better and that Len and Warren become studs, but that is still a big unknown. But Favors and Hayward were top 10 picks and are already in their second contracts. We don't have anyone that fits that criteria.
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#299 » by Damkac » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:50 pm

And Utah got lucky with Gobert
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Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#300 » by nevetsov » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:21 pm

With this team playing so well right now, does Hornacek keep the starting lineup intact, or does he automatically start a rusty Knight when he returns?
Personally, I love having PJ start at SG - I think it gives us size and D that we otherwise lack there - which makes it interesting to see where Knight fits in. Given the need to sign Price and Barron it does make the trading of Ennis and Plumlee a little perplexing.

Perhaps try:

Bledsoe/ Knight
Tucker/ Goodwin
Marcus/ Warren
Markieff/ Marcus
Len/ Wright

While Knight gets back in game shape. That'd be a decent rotation I think.

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