Game 30: Phoenix Suns (12-17) @ Utah Jazz (11-14)

[Revived]

Tucker's comments after the Jazz game

“I just work here, man,” Tucker said. “Just doing whatever I’m told. It’s not a regular thing but if they feel like changing me is going to help us win, then I’m all for it. I have to adjust and figure out another way like I always do. I don’t know what we’re trying to do, period. Whatever they want me to do as a Phoenix Sun, I’ll do. I don’t know anything right now. I’m just going out there and playing as hard as I can.”

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f7/suns-jazz-229931.html

If that doesn't show a coach losing the locker room then I'm not sure what is.

[Barkley_34]

Man, this team would be so much better with a PF scorer to give options to the guards pass. It's a shame this view that our guards are selfish ... they do not have for those who pass the ball! Yesterday at the start of the game Bledsoe gave the ball for Leuer alone 3 times! He did not hit anything! Unfortunately our players only ones with offensive potential in the post attack one is dissatisfied and the other has the worst hands NBA.

I wonder what our record would be right now if we had gotten Aldridge. The bad thing is that I don't know that anyone has trade value right now. The only way to get a decent player might be to cough up a pick, but that can't really be worth it at this point can it? At this point we cannot afford to sacrifice the future for now.

I agree with you, just think Jon Leuer is not the answer to have as starter of a team. We need some veteran who arrives to stabilize this weak part of our attack. Or pick up a young man with potential, and together with booker and Warren develop. Frankly I think an exchange involving Markieff and Taj Gibson at that time would not be bad if we go in the direction of trying playoffs. If you decide tanking, Try another with pf future, like Voaleh or Randle. We must first think about which way to go, the team is lost

[Revived]

10 assists combined for Bled and Knight over the last 2 games. Wall had 19 tonight.

dmhf

People here preseason were saying they'd rather have Bledsoe over Wall which is just asinine. He'd have this offense humming way more effectively in terms of getting everyone involved.

If we had Wall, people here would go absolutely insane over his 4.4 turnovers per game, declare him a PG who you can't win a title with because he can't drag this team to the playoffs singlehandedly, and demand he be traded until we get an unselfish PG like Kendall Marshall. I mean, if Bledsoe has an unquestionably low basketball IQ at 3.6 turnovers per game, then what would our board do with Wall?

It's ok to have turnovers when your averaging a crap ton of assists. It's not ok to average a bunch of turnovers when your barely getting any assists....

You think people cared about Steve Nash's turnovers? No.....because he averaged more than enough assists to offset for it.

[Barkley_34]

Tucker's comments after the Jazz game

“I just work here, man,” Tucker said. “Just doing whatever I’m told. It’s not a regular thing but if they feel like changing me is going to help us win, then I’m all for it. I have to adjust and figure out another way like I always do. I don’t know what we’re trying to do, period. Whatever they want me to do as a Phoenix Sun, I’ll do. I don’t know anything right now. I’m just going out there and playing as hard as I can.”

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f7/suns-jazz-229931.html

If that doesn't show a coach losing the locker room then I'm not sure what is.

Bizarre.

[Puff]

A lot of the blame for our failures is always put on Bledsoe and Knight, me included. We do that because they are combo guards and not pass 1st point guards. We complain that if we just had a Steve Nash everything would be OK.

I tuned into the Spurs the other night to remind myself how the game is supposed to be played. Tony Parker is not a true point but the Spurs pass the ball and they all play defense. If they don't, they do not play. EVERYONE is held accountable.

Booker got criticized by some because of our failures in the 1st quarter and his + and - of (-20). He passed the ball and played defense IMO. He only took 4 shots the whole game. I can assure you that Popovich would love to have him on their team. The TEAM would run plays designed by the COACH to get him open. Booker took a total of 4 shots making 2 in 13 minutes. IMO he is far from our biggest problem, yet he is consistently benched for unknown reasons by our clueless coach.

[bwgood77]

People here preseason were saying they'd rather have Bledsoe over Wall which is just asinine. He'd have this offense humming way more effectively in terms of getting everyone involved.

If we had Wall, people here would go absolutely insane over his 4.4 turnovers per game, declare him a PG who you can't win a title with because he can't drag this team to the playoffs singlehandedly, and demand he be traded until we get an unselfish PG like Kendall Marshall. I mean, if Bledsoe has an unquestionably low basketball IQ at 3.6 turnovers per game, then what would our board do with Wall?

It's ok to have turnovers when your averaging a crap ton of assists. It's not ok to average a bunch of turnovers when your barely getting any assists....

You think people cared about Steve Nash's turnovers? No.....because he averaged more than enough assists to offset for it.

Their turnovers are terrible, but another thing that counters them some is their steals . I think they avg about a combined 7 turnovers but average over 3 combined steals (net 4/2 = about 2 per guy). Nash averaged 3.3 turnovers, or more later in career and .9 steals, so net 2.4.

Not saying these guys are in close the stratosphere of Nash. Or even Wall, though Bledsoe isn't too too far behind Wall.

[Revived]

10 assists combined for Bled and Knight over the last 2 games. Wall had 19 tonight.

dmhf

People here preseason were saying they'd rather have Bledsoe over Wall which is just asinine. He'd have this offense humming way more effectively in terms of getting everyone involved.

If you think that's bad, just a year ago some people here said that they would take Bledsoe over Westbrook...

[bwgood77]

Tucker's comments after the Jazz game

“I just work here, man,” Tucker said. “Just doing whatever I’m told. It’s not a regular thing but if they feel like changing me is going to help us win, then I’m all for it. I have to adjust and figure out another way like I always do. I don’t know what we’re trying to do, period.[/u][/b] Whatever they want me to do as a Phoenix Sun, I’ll do. I don’t know anything right now. I’m just going out there and playing as hard as I can.”

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f7/suns-jazz-229931.html

If that doesn't show a coach losing the locker room then I'm not sure what is.

Nah, I don't think he's lost Tucker. I read that earlier and didn't take that way from it. Of course the players don't know exactly what is going on with the starting lineup changes, but that's not really up to them.

Not saying he hasn't lost the team, but I don't think we are nearly at a point where players don't want to play for him, which is typically the case when a coach loses the team.

[Steve Nashidis]

Man, this team would be so much better with a PF scorer to give options to the guards pass. It's a shame this view that our guards are selfish ... they do not have for those who pass the ball! Yesterday at the start of the game Bledsoe gave the ball for Leuer alone 3 times! He did not hit anything! Unfortunately our players only ones with offensive potential in the post attack one is dissatisfied and the other has the worst hands NBA.

steve nash had worst teamates sometimes but always knew how to pass the ball.
look knight and his krossovers every knight.

Its not only Bledsoe or Knight's fault not to pass . Its hornacek's fault. there is no gameplan.

P.S. i am not so pissed with bledsoe but with knight

[NavLDO]

Sorry but Hornacek needs to go. If the guys don't listen or respect him then we need to get someone in there that they will listen to and respect.

This. Even if it is the players' fault, you have to do something to fix it. You cannot just continue to use the coach the players, even if it was hypothetically wrongly, don't listen to or respect. You cannot turn over the entire roster in 1 move like you can fire a coach, and with the young talent on this roster, I'm not sure we would want to. Bledsoe, Knight, Booker, Warren, and Len imo are guys every team would be happy to have imo, despite the hate the first 2 seem to take on this board.

This team needs a wake up call, and often firing the coach serves as that.

Nice one. I like horny, but he needs to go now.

I like Horny as well, which is why we should fire him. The guy doesn't a team full of 'half-a$$ers' that won't listen to his coaching. He deserves better than this.

This team may very well need a strict disciplinarian, a coach that will sit those that are not playing to their contract. And I'm not of the "tanking"-variety group, but something is not right on this team. And if we are 12-18 after starting with a relatively 'easy' schedule, what happens as it get tougher?

If by 42 games in, we aren't AT LEAST 20-22 *which in looking at our schedule, I really only see 4 games that are likely 'unwinnable', then something drastic needs to happen, or we just need to play our young guys and develop them the best we can through the rest of the season.

[Revived]

This team has needed a strict disciplinarian coach for a very long time now.

Even after Gentry was canned, I thought we should have went after a strict disciplinarian coach.

[NavLDO]

10 assists combined for Bled and Knight over the last 2 games. Wall had 19 tonight.

dmhf

People here preseason were saying they'd rather have Bledsoe over Wall which is just asinine. He'd have this offense humming way more effectively in terms of getting everyone involved.

Who said that? I ask because I asked the question of how far is Bledsoe behind Wall, as far as production goes, and really, Bledsoe isn't that far behind Wall in that aspect, but I don't remember anyone saying they'd rather HAVE Bledsoe than Wall.

[jcsunsfan]

This team has needed a strict disciplinarian coach for a very long time now.

Even after Gentry was canned, I thought we should have went after a strict disciplinarian coach.

You mean a coach that will sit starters who don't play well and start 19 year old rookies instead. A coach who will sit a starting pf for 6 games for dogging it.

You all think you know what you want but you are not very good at seeing what you have.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Revived]

This team has needed a strict disciplinarian coach for a very long time now.

Even after Gentry was canned, I thought we should have went after a strict disciplinarian coach.

You mean a coach that will sit starters who don't play well and start 19 year old rookies instead. A coach who will sit a starting pf for 6 games for dogging it.

You all think you know what you want but you are not very good at seeing what you have.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I mean someone who actually yells at players when they screw up. I mean someone who actually shows emotion on the sideline. I mean someone that actually looks pissed and upset after losses. I mean someone that doesn't tolerate the kind of idiotic play from the players.

And I like how you throw that "starting 19 year old" thing as if he does it all the time. He did it for the FIRST time yesterday. He started Warren for the first time yesterday when he should have probably done that last year. Congrats, it only took Hornacek 3 years to grow some balls.

And Hornacek himself already said that it was McD and Sarver's decision to bench Kieff or else Hornacek would have continued to play that POS.

[bwgood77]

This team has needed a strict disciplinarian coach for a very long time now.

Even after Gentry was canned, I thought we should have went after a strict disciplinarian coach.

You mean a coach that will sit starters who don't play well and start 19 year old rookies instead. A coach who will sit a starting pf for 6 games for dogging it.

You all think you know what you want but you are not very good at seeing what you have.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I mean someone who actually yells at players when they screw up. I mean someone who actually shows emotion on the sideline. I mean someone that actually looks pissed and upset after losses. I mean someone that doesn't tolerate the kind of idiotic play from the players.

And I like how you throw that "starting 19 year old" thing as if he does it all the time. He did it for the FIRST time yesterday. He started Warren for the first time yesterday when he should have probably done that last year. Congrats, it only took Hornacek 3 years to grow some balls.

And Hornacek himself already said that it was McD and Sarver's decision to bench Kieff or else Hornacek would have continued to play that POS.

If you don't think Hornacek seems pissed and upset after losses, you must not be watching any press conferences.

Also, I don't remember the specifics of benching Kieff, but as I thought they said it was Hornacek's decision but that he had talked about it with Sarver/McD.

[SarcasticSun]

Seriously. Everyone is like Star Wars this and Star Wars that. I'm like why the **** hasn't Kieff been traded, why is Hornacek our coach, Knight is the most inconsistent player ever (paired with Bledsoe this is a nightmare) and god I hate Sarver if all he wants to do is climb into that "coveted" 8th seed where we will get dismantled by an average of 30 points (with a game 1 50 point loss) by the Warriors.

Just so that he can say that we "made the play-offs". I can just imagine him holding his fist like an idiot with a "nailed it" look on his face. I swear I'm taking crazy pills

I really do think it all comes down to Sarver. He himself admits he is impatient, and it is killing this team. That over achieving Dragic season really hurt us. We needed to tank, Sarver was embracing a proper rebuild..then Dragic happened. Honestly glad we sucked last year and were forced to trade Dragic. A Dragic/Bledsoe combo was not winning us a title anytime soon. We shouldn't have made the Knight trade though it seems and should have just blown it up and kept the Lakers pick.

However McD can't blow it up with an owner on his back itching to get his fix of playoffs, even if it's an 8 seed. So he needed to trade for Knight to give him a chance to keep his job, ditto for the Chandler signing/Aldrigde pursuit. When McD first showed up he was all talk about patience and building a team the right way, I don't think he changed his philosophy over a season, Sarver just forced his hand unfortunately.

I disagree with some of this. I don't like Sarver as much as the next guy. I hope he sells the team. That said, whether we would've been better off with the Laker pick is still TBD. For instance, in this draft, the 4th pick likely isn't going to yield you a player as good as Knight. Also, I think if that trade was the result of a forced hand, then we would've added a veteran who is better today than Knight, a 24 year old who fits the age window of our current team. I think every move we have made except for signing Chandler has been with an aim to get younger. The idea that McDonough was on the hot seat last season, and had to trade the Laker pick to keep his job is just a ton of assumptions that don't make sense imo.

That's fair. To me it just makes sense, McD is thinking he has, at most, two seasons after the one he was in. So he cashes in a draft pick early. I think McD is a great GM. I also think Hornaceck is at least an average coach, despite wanting him gone. He is in a bad situation, being given a team with no chemistry, while only having a year left on his contact. Let him play out his contact then move on. Trade Kieff and Tucker, play the young guys, and see who emerges as a star.

[jcsunsfan]

This team has needed a strict disciplinarian coach for a very long time now.

Even after Gentry was canned, I thought we should have went after a strict disciplinarian coach.

You mean a coach that will sit starters who don't play well and start 19 year old rookies instead. A coach who will sit a starting pf for 6 games for dogging it.

You all think you know what you want but you are not very good at seeing what you have.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I mean someone who actually yells at players when they screw up. I mean someone who actually shows emotion on the sideline. I mean someone that actually looks pissed and upset after losses. I mean someone that doesn't tolerate the kind of idiotic play from the players.

And I like how you throw that "starting 19 year old" thing as if he does it all the time. He did it for the FIRST time yesterday. He started Warren for the first time yesterday when he should have probably done that last year. Congrats, it only took Hornacek 3 years to grow some balls.

And Hornacek himself already said that it was McD and Sarver's decision to bench Kieff or else Hornacek would have continued to play that POS.

OH. So you want a screaming head coach. You mean like Pop and Phil Jackson, because they scream all the time at players who screw up. Yeah. That works with professionals. Jeez.

Also, it was clear it was Horny's decision to bench Kieff. He talked it over with his GM and owner because they are actively trying to trade that same player, so his decision would impact their plans.

Man, I don't have any particular love for Hornacek, but a little objectivity in evaluating is warranted.

[AtheJ415]

People here preseason were saying they'd rather have Bledsoe over Wall which is just asinine. He'd have this offense humming way more effectively in terms of getting everyone involved.

If we had Wall, people here would go absolutely insane over his 4.4 turnovers per game, declare him a PG who you can't win a title with because he can't drag this team to the playoffs singlehandedly, and demand he be traded until we get an unselfish PG like Kendall Marshall. I mean, if Bledsoe has an unquestionably low basketball IQ at 3.6 turnovers per game, then what would our board do with Wall?

It's ok to have turnovers when your averaging a crap ton of assists. It's not ok to average a bunch of turnovers when your barely getting any assists....

You think people cared about Steve Nash's turnovers? No.....because he averaged more than enough assists to offset for it.

I'm just saying, low basketball IQ is rampant here when it comes to turnovers, and Wall turns it over way morethan either of our current, supposedly moronic, guards.

[AtheJ415]

via BSoTS

Deadpoolio's (not so) Neat-o Stat of the Night (brought to you by basketball-reference.com)
Since 1985-86, no Suns team had ever played a game where they had 3 or fewer steals and zero blocks…until tonight.

Hornacek has lost this team. Effort is not there across the board imo. Last night was meant to be a kick in the pants for the vets who got benched. Knight responded. Tucker apparently couldn't be bothered to. And the rest of the team imploded effortwise for whatever reason. I don't think this team has faith that its coach knows how to put them in the best position to win.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Hornacek has done a **** job this year and I'm fine firing him but it won't solve the problems this team has. The issues are widespread and not easy to fix. Short of Sarver selling the team there's really no news that will make me excited about this franchise moving forward. It's a sad state of affairs.