Game 50: Toronto Raptors @ Phoenix Suns - Debut of the Great Earl Watson

[bwgood77]

All this game shows is that with effort, Morris can be good. And it also proves that Morris has purposely not given the effort this season. We already knew this.

I could say that about our hole team though. I hate Kieff, but let's not pretend like he was the only one out there not playing hard. The team had quit on Jeff. Everyone was demotivated.

Our team certainly has a lot of holes!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[bwgood77]

Conspiracy theory:

- Keef has big game against Cavs last year
- Keef almost gets traded to the Cavs with IT for Kevin Love
- All is not well in Cleveland
- Cleveland may need a new head coach...a head coach who has played
- The Suns promote Earl Watson to head coach and he signs Rich Paul as his agent
- Earl Watson gets Keef to look like an allstar
Next steps
- Cavs lose in ECF or Finals
- Keef beats assault charge
- Keef signs with Rich Paul
- Cavs offer big deal to Earl Watson
- Earl Watson, D-bag Lebron, and moron Rich Paul trade Love for Keef and someone else

It really makes sense. Lebron wants a former player he respects as coach. Lebron likes playing with "Klutz" spots guys. Kevin Love and Lebron aren't getting along. Keef was shorted on his last contact and probably wants Rich Paul type negotiation next time. The Suns front office hates keef and has been wanting Love for some time now.

I hope Watson takes Keef with him to the Cavs at the end of the season.

I'd also gladly swap Bledsoe for Kyrie if GM Lebron wants that.

Except that they didn't just make Tyronn Lue interim, but they gave him a 3 year, 9.5 million contract. He originally was a close second to Blatt and even after not getting the job, they lobbied to have him be the lead assistant, which is rare.

[bwgood77]

Lol. Watson is a genius. Gets Markieff to buy in by asking him to lead the team. Stark contrast from Jeff, who wanted the players to sort out who was the leader. Watson tells them their roles. If Kieff keeps it up will anybody forgive him? I'm not sure I could at this point. But it would be nice to be able to get something good for him (please draft picks or please Terrence Jones).

Didn't Jeff ask both Morris to take on a leadership role last season? They responded with a large amount of techs and a felony assault case. Oh, and yelling at the coach on national tv. Jeff was positive with Morris up until it was obvious that Morris was dogging it.

Right, and that negative reinforcement caused things to get worse. Let's say your boss has always managed you with positive reinforcement. What happens when he suddenly becomes negative and stops involving you? Kieff is a moron who is hard to deal with, but Watson is handling it better. For Watson to do this despite and after all of the troubles probably means a lot to Kieff. He probably feels like he has a 2nd chance. It goes back to handling and managing people. We'll see with Watson, but he's certainly handling Kieff better in the 1 game he coached.

Obviously Markieff has looked better in the one game under Watson, but Hornacek was positive with Morris for A LONG time. Most of the forum here DID NOT want to see Morris on the court when he seemed clearly out of it because of his brother and wasn't playing well. Despite all that, Hornacek WAS still being positive for awhile, and then finally, after a lot of people had been hoping it would happen, he stopped playing him.

The only negative reinforcement was sitting his ass down. The Morris twins are time bombs...I heard that from a guy I knew who went to KU right when we drafted them and I'm sure other teams will find out the hard way some day too. Sure they will shape up for a while to get what they want, then they will feel empowered and become irrational and do extremely stupid things, and maybe at some point, destroy their careers.

[Damkac]

If Kieff would play with this energy every game and Bledsoe wouldn't get injured Suns would be playoffs team imo.

[AtheJ415]

Didn't Jeff ask both Morris to take on a leadership role last season? They responded with a large amount of techs and a felony assault case. Oh, and yelling at the coach on national tv. Jeff was positive with Morris up until it was obvious that Morris was dogging it.

Right, and that negative reinforcement caused things to get worse. Let's say your boss has always managed you with positive reinforcement. What happens when he suddenly becomes negative and stops involving you? Kieff is a moron who is hard to deal with, but Watson is handling it better. For Watson to do this despite and after all of the troubles probably means a lot to Kieff. He probably feels like he has a 2nd chance. It goes back to handling and managing people. We'll see with Watson, but he's certainly handling Kieff better in the 1 game he coached.

Obviously Markieff has looked better in the one game under Watson, but Hornacek was positive with Morris for A LONG time. Most of the forum here DID NOT want to see Morris on the court when he seemed clearly out of it because of his brother and wasn't playing well. Despite all that, Hornacek WAS still being positive for awhile, and then finally, after a lot of people had been hoping it would happen, he stopped playing him.

The only negative reinforcement was sitting his ass down. The Morris twins are time bombs...I heard that from a guy I knew who went to KU right when we drafted them and I'm sure other teams will find out the hard way some day too. Sure they will shape up for a while to get what they want, then they will feel empowered and become irrational and do extremely stupid things, and maybe at some point, destroy their careers.

Judging him by what most of this board wants is kind of ridiculous. Nobody should listen to what most of this board wants. If we did that, our team would be Frank Kaminsky and Rondo.

I'm not saying a coach must deal with Kieff with only positive reinforcement. I'm saying a coach must look at the situation and find the way that works to get through to the player. Hornacek was positive for a long time. Kieff was good for a long time. Then Hornacek switched to negative when Kieff started to faulter and Jeff couldn't figure out what would work, and it failed and backfired, and Jeff was never able to fix it. Watson thought about the scenario Markieff was in with him now in charge and did what he felt was best to get him on board in his situation (again, now different from Jeff because this is his first impression not last resort), and succeeded.

It's not about being positive or negative. It's about figuring out what will work in the given situation to get through to the player. Jeff couldn't do it. Watson has for at least 1 game.

[LukasBMW]

Conspiracy theory:

- Keef has big game against Cavs last year
- Keef almost gets traded to the Cavs with IT for Kevin Love
- All is not well in Cleveland
- Cleveland may need a new head coach...a head coach who has played
- The Suns promote Earl Watson to head coach and he signs Rich Paul as his agent
- Earl Watson gets Keef to look like an allstar
Next steps
- Cavs lose in ECF or Finals
- Keef beats assault charge
- Keef signs with Rich Paul
- Cavs offer big deal to Earl Watson
- Earl Watson, D-bag Lebron, and moron Rich Paul trade Love for Keef and someone else

It really makes sense. Lebron wants a former player he respects as coach. Lebron likes playing with "Klutz" spots guys. Kevin Love and Lebron aren't getting along. Keef was shorted on his last contact and probably wants Rich Paul type negotiation next time. The Suns front office hates keef and has been wanting Love for some time now.

I hope Watson takes Keef with him to the Cavs at the end of the season.

I'd also gladly swap Bledsoe for Kyrie if GM Lebron wants that.

Except that they didn't just make Tyronn Lue interim, but they gave him a 3 year, 9.5 million contract. He originally was a close second to Blatt and even after not getting the job, they lobbied to have him be the lead assistant, which is rare.

Well, there goes my theory.

Theory #2 is that Sarver is getting punked. Rich Paul smells blood in the water and knows Sarver and the Suns are no longer respected by the players in this league. With Bledsoe and Watson under his brand, he can force more players to come to the Suns (@ a ridiculous max deal of course). He can make Phoenix a destination players want to play at...but it'll cost Sarver and Sarver is now desperate. Sarver gets his name brand player or players, Rich Paul gets more max deals.

I hope I'm wrong.

While I did like the fact that McD and Bobby refused to let the inmates run the asylum, they took it too far and lost respect.

Still, before we cater to Klutch and their extortion negotiation tactics, I wish we would follow the San Antonio model of developing young players and stressing teamwork so we build a T.E.A.M. and not a bunch of individual cry babies just looking to get paid and cash in on marketing deals.

San Antonio and GSW are the franchises I want to follow. Cleveland is a disaster. The Knicks also threw money at borderline players for years and it got them nowhere.

Fragile decisions ahead.

[thamadkant]

If Kieff would play with this energy every game and Bledsoe wouldn't get injured Suns would be playoffs team imo.

likely.

But chances are... Booker wouldnt be playing 30 mins a game and putting up 20+ points either.

Goodwin will also likely be on the bench still..



Is Bledsoe, Knight, Morris, Chandler... enough for a championship... to disregard development of players.

[bigfoot]

If Kieff would play with this energy every game and Bledsoe wouldn't get injured Suns would be playoffs team imo.

likely.

But chances are... Booker wouldnt be playing 30 mins a game and putting up 20+ points either.

Goodwin will also likely be on the bench still..



Is Bledsoe, Knight, Morris, Chandler... enough for a championship... to disregard development of players.

It will be interesting to see the guard rotation next year after Goodwin and Booker get a season's worth of experience starting.

Bledsoe / Goodwin / Booker could make a very nice rotation. That leaves big questions regarding Knight and Bogdanovic.

[LukasBMW]

If Kieff would play with this energy every game and Bledsoe wouldn't get injured Suns would be playoffs team imo.

likely.

But chances are... Booker wouldnt be playing 30 mins a game and putting up 20+ points either.

Goodwin will also likely be on the bench still..



Is Bledsoe, Knight, Morris, Chandler... enough for a championship... to disregard development of players.

It will be interesting to see the guard rotation next year after Goodwin and Booker get a season's worth of experience starting.

Bledsoe / Goodwin / Booker could make a very nice rotation. That leaves big questions regarding Knight and Bogdanovic.

The way Booker has played...how can you not start him next year? Anything else will slow his development.

I really think the Suns will need to choose between the injury prone Bledsoe (who doesn't always play hard) and the trigger happy Knight (who averages more turnovers then assists).

[letsgosuns]

I think there is no reason to assume that either Bledsoe or Knight will be on the team next year. They both might get traded.

With just Bledsoe leading the team last season, the Suns finished the season 1-10.
With Bledsoe and Knight together this season, the Suns were 12-19 entering the game where Bledsoe got hurt.
With just Knight leading the team this season after Bledsoe got hurt, the Suns went 1-10. That does not include the game that Knight missed against Indiana that the Suns lost.

Let's put this into perspective. In the last 53 games that either only Bledsoe played, only Knight played, or Bledsoe and Knight played together, the Suns record is 14-39. That is awful. Plus it seemed like the Suns were getting worse each game even before Bledsoe got injured back in December. Each guy has a 5 year, 70 million dollar contract. How many fans would like the Suns to get out of those contracts and spend their money in other ways? I would.

[saintEscaton]

I think there is no reason to assume that either Bledsoe or Knight will be on team next year. They both might get traded.

With just Bledsoe leading the team last season, the Suns finished the season 1-10.
With Bledsoe and Knight together this season, the Suns were 12-19 entering the game where Bledsoe got hurt.
With just Knight leading the team this season after Bledsoe got hurt, the Suns went 1-10. That does not include the game that Knight missed against Indiana that the Suns lost.

Let's put this into perspective. In the last 53 games that either only Bledsoe played, only Knight played, or Bledsoe and Knight played together, the Suns record is 14-39. That is awful. Plus it seemed like the Suns were getting worse each game even before Bledsoe got injured back in December. Each guy has a 5 year, 70 million dollar contract. How many fans would like the Suns get out of those contracts and spend their money in other ways. I would.

Bledsoe has maybe a couple of more years left of his prime and he's not gunna get any better than what he is now,Plus the added concern stemming from his third meniscus injury and he could be a no knee gimp upon return for all we know. He's basically a dumber late blooming Kyle Lowrie lite with freak athleticism except he's not as impactful. If the med staff thinks he won't be the same I could see us dealing him before the start of season. he added a reliable jumper to his arsenal so he took the next step as a scorer but he won't suddenly become a cerebral floor general or alpha dog leader. He could be a #3 on a contender as the nominal PG and primary ballhandler but he needs other playmakers around him because he can't effectively run a half court offense

[LukasBMW]

I'd be totally down to ditch both Bledsoe AND Knight.

I honestly think ball movement could be better with a journeyman PG that can only pass, defend, and shoot.

[Sunsss]

journeyman PG that can only pass, defend, and shoot.

[bwgood77]

I think there is no reason to assume that either Bledsoe or Knight will be on team next year. They both might get traded.

With just Bledsoe leading the team last season, the Suns finished the season 1-10.
With Bledsoe and Knight together this season, the Suns were 12-19 entering the game where Bledsoe got hurt.
With just Knight leading the team this season after Bledsoe got hurt, the Suns went 1-10. That does not include the game that Knight missed against Indiana that the Suns lost.

Let's put this into perspective. In the last 53 games that either only Bledsoe played, only Knight played, or Bledsoe and Knight played together, the Suns record is 14-39. That is awful. Plus it seemed like the Suns were getting worse each game even before Bledsoe got injured back in December. Each guy has a 5 year, 70 million dollar contract. How many fans would like the Suns get out of those contracts and spend their money in other ways. I would.

Bledsoe has maybe a couple of more years left of his prime and he's not gunna get any better than what he is now,Plus the added concern stemming from his third meniscus injury and he could be a no knee gimp upon return for all we know. He's basically a dumber late blooming Kyle Lowrie lite with freak athleticism except he's not as impactful. If the med staff thinks he won't be the same I could see us dealing him before the start of season. he added a reliable jumper to his arsenal so he took the next step as a scorer but he won't suddenly become a cerebral floor general or alpha dog leader. He could be a #3 on a contender as the nominal PG and primary ballhandler but he needs other playmakers around him because he can't effectively run a half court offense

That's the crazy thing. As many point guards as we have and have had recently, do we even have one who could realistically be the floor general on not just a contender, but a team hoping to get to the 2nd round?

I mean Bledsoe could do that for a year or two on a good team if healthy, so I hadn't thought about it before, but maybe he and whatever team that got him would be better served if he wasn't on a rebuilding team. But we will keep him because of Sarver's "We are NOT a rebuilding team we are a playoff team!" mentality. I don't know what kind of trade value he has, and being a hopeful guy, if we didn't get back a major return for him, I'm fine keeping him and hoping he can stay healthy and even get a little better and play for a number of years. Five years ago I thought Chris Paul was basically done, and he certainly wasn't.

[saintEscaton]

I think there is no reason to assume that either Bledsoe or Knight will be on team next year. They both might get traded.

With just Bledsoe leading the team last season, the Suns finished the season 1-10.
With Bledsoe and Knight together this season, the Suns were 12-19 entering the game where Bledsoe got hurt.
With just Knight leading the team this season after Bledsoe got hurt, the Suns went 1-10. That does not include the game that Knight missed against Indiana that the Suns lost.

Let's put this into perspective. In the last 53 games that either only Bledsoe played, only Knight played, or Bledsoe and Knight played together, the Suns record is 14-39. That is awful. Plus it seemed like the Suns were getting worse each game even before Bledsoe got injured back in December. Each guy has a 5 year, 70 million dollar contract. How many fans would like the Suns get out of those contracts and spend their money in other ways. I would.

Bledsoe has maybe a couple of more years left of his prime and he's not gunna get any better than what he is now,Plus the added concern stemming from his third meniscus injury and he could be a no knee gimp upon return for all we know. He's basically a dumber late blooming Kyle Lowrie lite with freak athleticism except he's not as impactful. If the med staff thinks he won't be the same I could see us dealing him before the start of season. he added a reliable jumper to his arsenal so he took the next step as a scorer but he won't suddenly become a cerebral floor general or alpha dog leader. He could be a #3 on a contender as the nominal PG and primary ballhandler but he needs other playmakers around him because he can't effectively run a half court offense

That's the crazy thing. As many point guards as we have and have had recently, do we even have one who could realistically be the floor general on not just a contender, but a team hoping to get to the 2nd round?

I mean Bledsoe could do that for a year or two on a good team if healthy, so I hadn't thought about it before, but maybe he and whatever team that got him would be better served if he wasn't on a rebuilding team. But we will keep him because of Sarver's "We are NOT a rebuilding team we are a playoff team!" mentality. I don't know what kind of trade value he has, and being a hopeful guy, if we didn't get back a major return for him, I'm fine keeping him and hoping he can stay healthy and even get a little better and play for a number of years. Five years ago I thought Chris Paul was basically done, and he certainly wasn't.

Bledsoe's game is predicated upon throwing his body with reckless abandon and taking heavy contact. Hence the shorter expiration date. Skills guys with half a brain age like fine wine.

[bigfoot]

Man Earl Watson is one very eloquent speaker. I like the guy already.

Made a very interesting comment in the postgame presser. "... Gotta get Len (and Tyson) going..But our bigs arent used to playing at the offensive end."

Subtle but very telling comment there.. probably directed mostly towards Knight about him (and others) not making a big enough effort to share the ball around, instead of hogging it and taking bad shots.

I like this guy already.

I thought he was reasonably well-spoken but he did make up a new word much like George W Bush.

[bigfoot]

Man Earl Watson is one very eloquent speaker. I like the guy already.

Made a very interesting comment in the postgame presser. "... Gotta get Len (and Tyson) going..But our bigs arent used to playing at the offensive end."

Subtle but very telling comment there.. probably directed mostly towards Knight about him (and others) not making a big enough effort to share the ball around, instead of hogging it and taking bad shots.

I like this guy already.

I thought he was reasonably well-spoken but he did make up a new word much like George W Bush.

Our maybe not ... this should be on Keef's playlist ... it's eerie

https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/the-re-encouragement/id368330630

[garrick]

Conspiracy theory:

- Keef has big game against Cavs last year
- Keef almost gets traded to the Cavs with IT for Kevin Love
- All is not well in Cleveland
- Cleveland may need a new head coach...a head coach who has played
- The Suns promote Earl Watson to head coach and he signs Rich Paul as his agent
- Earl Watson gets Keef to look like an allstar
Next steps
- Cavs lose in ECF or Finals
- Keef beats assault charge
- Keef signs with Rich Paul
- Cavs offer big deal to Earl Watson
- Earl Watson, D-bag Lebron, and moron Rich Paul trade Love for Keef and someone else

It really makes sense. Lebron wants a former player he respects as coach. Lebron likes playing with "Klutz" spots guys. Kevin Love and Lebron aren't getting along. Keef was shorted on his last contact and probably wants Rich Paul type negotiation next time. The Suns front office hates keef and has been wanting Love for some time now.

I hope Watson takes Keef with him to the Cavs at the end of the season.

I'd also gladly swap Bledsoe for Kyrie if GM Lebron wants that.

Except that they didn't just make Tyronn Lue interim, but they gave him a 3 year, 9.5 million contract. He originally was a close second to Blatt and even after not getting the job, they lobbied to have him be the lead assistant, which is rare.

Well, there goes my theory.

Theory #2 is that Sarver is getting punked. Rich Paul smells blood in the water and knows Sarver and the Suns are no longer respected by the players in this league. With Bledsoe and Watson under his brand, he can force more players to come to the Suns (@ a ridiculous max deal of course). He can make Phoenix a destination players want to play at...but it'll cost Sarver and Sarver is now desperate. Sarver gets his name brand player or players, Rich Paul gets more max deals.

I hope I'm wrong.

While I did like the fact that McD and Bobby refused to let the inmates run the asylum, they took it too far and lost respect.

Still, before we cater to Klutch and their extortion negotiation tactics, I wish we would follow the San Antonio model of developing young players and stressing teamwork so we build a T.E.A.M. and not a bunch of individual cry babies just looking to get paid and cash in on marketing deals.

San Antonio and GSW are the franchises I want to follow. Cleveland is a disaster. The Knicks also threw money at borderline players for years and it got them nowhere.

Fragile decisions ahead.

To be honest it was Rich Paul who really is to blame for starting the chain of events that brought the Suns down by sabotaging the renegotiation process and McD got IT as insurance policy if Bledsoe decided not to sign with us.

We then lose Dragic because he's not happy with his role and reduced minutes so we end up trading both IT and Dragic and get an inferior player in Knight.

[garrick]

I think there is no reason to assume that either Bledsoe or Knight will be on team next year. They both might get traded.

With just Bledsoe leading the team last season, the Suns finished the season 1-10.
With Bledsoe and Knight together this season, the Suns were 12-19 entering the game where Bledsoe got hurt.
With just Knight leading the team this season after Bledsoe got hurt, the Suns went 1-10. That does not include the game that Knight missed against Indiana that the Suns lost.

Let's put this into perspective. In the last 53 games that either only Bledsoe played, only Knight played, or Bledsoe and Knight played together, the Suns record is 14-39. That is awful. Plus it seemed like the Suns were getting worse each game even before Bledsoe got injured back in December. Each guy has a 5 year, 70 million dollar contract. How many fans would like the Suns get out of those contracts and spend their money in other ways. I would.

Bledsoe has maybe a couple of more years left of his prime and he's not gunna get any better than what he is now,Plus the added concern stemming from his third meniscus injury and he could be a no knee gimp upon return for all we know. He's basically a dumber late blooming Kyle Lowrie lite with freak athleticism except he's not as impactful. If the med staff thinks he won't be the same I could see us dealing him before the start of season. he added a reliable jumper to his arsenal so he took the next step as a scorer but he won't suddenly become a cerebral floor general or alpha dog leader. He could be a #3 on a contender as the nominal PG and primary ballhandler but he needs other playmakers around him because he can't effectively run a half court offense

I like Bledsoe but he's really a poor man's Westbrook so we need a second playmaker out there not a combo guard like Knight that has awful court vision.

Either that or we go the Thunder route and get a PF that can really stretch the defense like Durant but with our FA history we aren't getting a player like Durant anytime soon and if we go by the draft we have to luck out and land a top pick and by the time the pick develops Bledsoe might just be a shell of his former self.

[ATTL]

I'd be totally down to ditch both Bledsoe AND Knight.

I honestly think ball movement could be better with a journeyman PG that can only pass, defend, and shoot.

I would gladly move on from both for picks and rookie contracts. Both have underwhelmed with injuries and sefidhness.