The Trade/Free Agency Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 2

[Cactus Jack]

This is a pretty interesting article, but what is really interesting is the chart showing at what age point guards have their best season(s) and worst, and how they much they get better or decline each year. If anyone wants to post the chart in the thread, go for it..

http://www.phillymag.com/news/2016/06/03/dissecting-the-jeff-teague-for-nerlens-noel-rumor/

Nice find. Its funny how most players hit their peak at 25-27. Gradually Decline & drop off a cliff at age 32/33. Its like clock work. Spot on.

[OGBAH]

Grant Hill says hi

[Cactus Jack]

Grant Hill says hi

Grant started his decline at around age 28 (Injuries). Right on schedule.

[OGBAH]

Dammit

[Cactus Jack]

It also means Bledsoe (26) is at his peak now. It would be smarter to deal him before Knight (24).

[bwgood77]

Well not sure why Grant Hill was brought up since he's not a guard, but the better thing to say would have been Steve Nash says hi.

It's not the same for everyone. Deron Williams was close to as good as Chris Paul around that age and declined quickly, though Paul didn't. Nor did Kidd or others. I think it comes down to IQ if you can even stay healthy. There are always going to be new people with athleticism for those who rely on that.

[carey]

If this Teague/Noel thing has legs I hope McD is on the phone with Colangelo. Knight+filler for Noel sounds like a fine plan.

It's interesting. I went to compare Knight and Teague from this past year thinking Teague is the better player. It's actually a bit closer than you'd expect and Knight is 3 years younger and locked in for 4 more years. Teague makes significantly less next year ($8M) but will be due for a very large raise as a 28-year-old in the Summer of '17.

[Cactus Jack]

Well not sure why Grant Hill was brought up since he's not a guard, but the better thing to say would have been Steve Nash says hi.

It's not the same for everyone. Deron Williams was close to as good as Chris Paul around that age and declined quickly, though Paul didn't. Nor did Kidd or others. I think it comes down to IQ if you can even stay healthy. There are always going to be new people with athleticism for those who rely on that.

Nash & Stockton the outliers. Meanwhile, those that rely more on their athleticism will obviously decline more rapidly. Which is why I expect a sharp decline from a player like Westbrook.

[Cactus Jack]

If this Teague/Noel thing has legs I hope McD is on the phone with Colangelo. Knight+filler for Noel sounds like a fine plan.

It's interesting. I went to compare Knight and Teague from this past year thinking Teague is the better player. It's actually a bit closer than you'd expect and Knight is 3 years younger and locked in for 4 more years. Teague makes significantly less next year ($8M) but will be due for a very large raise as a 28-year-old in the Summer of '17.

Yeah. I don't get it for Philly. Why BC? Why?

[carey]

Yeah. I don't get it for Philly. Why BC? Why?

I would guess the better assist to turnover ratio. The FG% difference is negligible when you consider that Knight takes almost double the amount of 3's per game than Teague. Of course defensively you'd give the edge to Teague, but I don't know enough about advanced defensive statistics to contribute anything useful on that front.

[bwgood77]

Yeah. I don't get it for Philly. Why BC? Why?

I would guess the better assist to turnover ratio. The FG% difference is negligible when you consider that Knight takes almost double the amount of 3's per game than Teague. Of course defensively you'd give the edge to Teague, but I don't know enough about advanced defensive statistics to contribute anything useful on that front.

First of all, it's a rumor and that's it. For all we know BC floated it to Sham to see what other offers might come in for Noel (or Okafor if they knew they would keep one).

Secondly, if you wanted a PG, who would YOU take? I'd take Teague over Knight in a heartbeat. Lets not kid ourselves here. Not only is he a better decision maker and passer but he shoots better.

You mention the % about shooting being because Knight shoots more 3s...I mean look at their 3pt %...Teague is a 40% vs Knight's 34.2%....it's dragging Knight's down because Teague is significantly better at it. If Teague shot more perhaps his % drops but it's likely not going to move things much and my guess is part of the reason he shoots a better percentage is because he is smarter about when to take them.

[carey]

First of all, it's a rumor and that's it. For all we know BC floated it to Sham to see what other offers might come in for Noel (or Okafor if they knew they would keep one).

Secondly, if you wanted a PG, who would YOU take? I'd take Teague over Knight in a heartbeat. Lets not kid ourselves here. Not only is he a better decision maker and passer but he shoots better.

You mention the % about shooting being because Knight shoots more 3s...I mean look at their 3pt %...Teague is a 40% vs Knight's 34.2%....it's dragging Knight's down because Teague is significantly better at it. If Teague shot more perhaps his % drops but it's likely not going to move things much and my guess is part of the reason he shoots a better percentage is because he is smarter about when to take them.

I know it's a rumor. It's still ok to talk about those, right?

Maybe. He was shooting 40% from 3 in Milwaukee when we traded for him. I think they are closer than you suggest but because we've watched Knight make some bad decisions and struggle with nagging injuries we've soured on him. That's certainly fair, but Teague is hardly vastly superior to Knight. Something else, just a cursory glance but there's no 30+ point games in Teague's game log from last year. He's not a player that's ever going to catch fire and carry you. Knight had 5 in 52 games. Just something to think about.

[saintEscaton]

Too bad Bryan Colangelo is undoing Hinkie's hard work in one fell swoop.Of course II'd rather be in Philly's shoes, GTFO with this nonsense they went BPA at every opportunity with no regrets

Hinikie's hard work? I hope you are being ironic with this statement since Hinkie's hard work was to gut a team and put the worst grouping of player out on the floor possible. Doing this one year might be understandable but doing it year after year after year is a joke. The NBA should have stepped in and fired him years ago for the 76ers being an embarrassment to the NBA.

Suns fans have accepted instant gratification and are bitter that they took the futile path, there's no reward for trying in good earnest and most of you on here have no idea what your're talking about when it comes to the Sixers. Other than gifting away Vucevic, Hinkie took every sucka to the cleaners and has accumulated a treasure trove of assets, hell he got a pick back from the Magic just for moving down a couple of spots. The new CBA and ownern supportedthe revenue sharingmodel g basically incentivizes the Proces.s Philly was pressured into hiring BC as a PR stunt to save the NBA's face

[saintEscaton]

First of all, it's a rumor and that's it. For all we know BC floated it to Sham to see what other offers might come in for Noel (or Okafor if they knew they would keep one).

Secondly, if you wanted a PG, who would YOU take? I'd take Teague over Knight in a heartbeat. Lets not kid ourselves here. Not only is he a better decision maker and passer but he shoots better.

You mention the % about shooting being because Knight shoots more 3s...I mean look at their 3pt %...Teague is a 40% vs Knight's 34.2%....it's dragging Knight's down because Teague is significantly better at it. If Teague shot more perhaps his % drops but it's likely not going to move things much and my guess is part of the reason he shoots a better percentage is because he is smarter about when to take them.

I know it's a rumor. It's still ok to talk about those, right?

Maybe. He was shooting 40% from 3 in Milwaukee when we traded for him. I think they are closer than you suggest but because we've watched Knight make some bad decisions and struggle with nagging injuries we've soured on him. That's certainly fair, but Teague is hardly vastly superior to Knight. Something else, just a cursory glance but there's no 30+ point games in Teague's game log from last year. He's not a player that's ever going to catch fire and carry you. Knight had 5 in 52 games. Just something to think about.

Teague had one 32 point game vs the Mavs on February, he was basically the third wheel behind Milsap. Horford and wasn’t given the green light to chuck at will like Knight.This a terrible way to compare players btw. Teague is basically Conley/Teague tier his VORP( cumulative metric that accounts or how much value a player adds above replacement level by points provided/prevented per 100 possesions according to usage rate) is twice that of Knight’s. But yeah he is a slightly above average dime a dozen point guard at the

[bwgood77]

First of all, it's a rumor and that's it. For all we know BC floated it to Sham to see what other offers might come in for Noel (or Okafor if they knew they would keep one).

Secondly, if you wanted a PG, who would YOU take? I'd take Teague over Knight in a heartbeat. Lets not kid ourselves here. Not only is he a better decision maker and passer but he shoots better.

You mention the % about shooting being because Knight shoots more 3s...I mean look at their 3pt %...Teague is a 40% vs Knight's 34.2%....it's dragging Knight's down because Teague is significantly better at it. If Teague shot more perhaps his % drops but it's likely not going to move things much and my guess is part of the reason he shoots a better percentage is because he is smarter about when to take them.

I know it's a rumor. It's still ok to talk about those, right?

Maybe. He was shooting 40% from 3 in Milwaukee when we traded for him. I think they are closer than you suggest but because we've watched Knight make some bad decisions and struggle with nagging injuries we've soured on him. That's certainly fair, but Teague is hardly vastly superior to Knight. Something else, just a cursory glance but there's no 30+ point games in Teague's game log from last year. He's not a player that's ever going to catch fire and carry you. Knight had 5 in 52 games. Just something to think about.

Yeah fine to talk about rumors but pointing out that's all it is. I don't care how many 30 pt games my point guard has. I guess it depends on what you are looking for. If I was looking for a point guard I would choose Teague all day every day over Knight. If I wanted a 30 pt game I would prefer it from a guy who had better efficiency. If one was to argue "well Knight was on fire then" well that only makes the rest of his #s worse.

I am surprised you guys think Knight can fetch that kind of value.

[bwgood77]

Too bad Bryan Colangelo is undoing Hinkie's hard work in one fell swoop.Of course II'd rather be in Philly's shoes, GTFO with this nonsense they went BPA at every opportunity with no regrets

Hinikie's hard work? I hope you are being ironic with this statement since Hinkie's hard work was to gut a team and put the worst grouping of player out on the floor possible. Doing this one year might be understandable but doing it year after year after year is a joke. The NBA should have stepped in and fired him years ago for the 76ers being an embarrassment to the NBA.

Suns fans have accepted instant gratification and are bitter that they took the futile path, there's no reward for trying in good earnest and most of you on here have no idea what your're talking about when it comes to the Sixers. Other than gifting away Vucevic, Hinkie took every sucka to the cleaners and has accumulated a treasure trove of assets, hell he got a pick back from the Magic just for moving down a couple of spots. The new CBA and ownern supportedthe revenue sharingmodel g basically incentivizes the Proces.s Philly was pressured into hiring BC as a PR stunt to save the NBA's face

You are vastly overrating that treasure trove. Those picks were all good for value sake at the time, but as we see, value drops, and people like him and you should see that. A ridiculously shrewd move after having Noel would have been trading either of the next two year picks, when they landed where they did, because we can see what happened with them. When you take players that can't play together and let them demonstrate that, not good. Getting that pick back was ok, but it was only conveyed as a first if they made the playoffs in 2015 which was obviously not going to happen anyway, and after that, it turned into two second round picks....so they got those back.

He is more like a guy collecting basketball cards. He doesn't have a clue about team building. McD is somewhat similar but has been forced to adjust and we've seen the results...I can't imagine the player relations had Hinkie worked for Sarver.

[Krush32]

Anyone hear Mcdonough's brother throw Hornecek under the bus today on the radio?

He said Horne is the one who wanted to trade IT, and Mook not Mcdonough.

[asudevil]

IF there is a true debate between Teague/Knight with the Sixers FO....its honestly hard to compare. We as Sun's fans have completely soured on Knight. But if you look at the stats (and only stats), the comparison between Knight in 14/15 and Teague in 15/16 are totally similar. And with Knight being 3 years younger with 3 years left on a manageable contract, the debate tightens.

[Qwigglez]

Anyone hear Mcdonough's brother throw Hornecek under the bus today on the radio?

He said Horne is the one who wanted to trade IT, and Mook not Mcdonough.

Well it makes sense since Mook threw that temper tantrum. Horny can voice his opinion but it's McD's job to call the shots. In hindsight he probably should have kept IT and waited on trading Mook until the LMA decision was made. At the same time though, if those moves weren't made we wouldn't have Booker and this 4th pick. We'll see how this pick turns out though.

[Qwigglez]

Oh and this Teague trade rumor. Teague will be expiring after the following season. He'll be 29 next offseason, why would he stay with the Sixers? Unless they offer him the max and there are no other teams coming close to that then I don't see it. The trade doesn't make sense on Philly's side I completely get it for the Hawks though.
Knight fits with the Sixers core, and will still have 4 more years left on his contract. I think Knight + 4 for Okafor is a win-win for both sides.