2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V

[lilfishi22]

Sam Amico

https://hoopswire.com/mike-budenholzer-kevin-durant-devin-booker-phoenix-suns-nba-news-rumors/

Is Sam Amico reliable?

Amick is more reliable than Amico


Ishbia -- not going to trade Durant but will trade Beal for PG 13

Quite frankly I could actually see that happening. It probably would be a disaster bit who knows. A healthy, very unlikely, would have made a wonderful Big Three 5 years ago. I can see Ishbia making that trade if Phillie would accept Beal and Beal would accept that destination. George would add another legit forward that plays defense. Add Dunn to the forward mix and we would be pretty well set depending on the health of KD and PG. Make Gillespie the starting PG and just keep the three centers.

Our new head coach will demand effort and defense. That could do wonders with that big Three. I expect that is how Ishbia is going to view that opportunity if we are offered PG13 for Beal.

I think Bud has been so Toxic with this group it is almost impossible to evaluate our players. He is the one that must go. I have been preaching that for a while, and I might be wrong, but I doubt it.

I think Bud has probably been the biggest disappointment for me this season. I thought he was a wonderful hire and I wanted him before we hired Monty back in the day. When we finally hired him and we were able to improve the roster on the edges, I kind of felt pretty good going into the season.

Then it all just fell apart. Even with Beal in and out of the line up, I kind of thought we had enough to be respectable but between the complete collapse of our team defense, to not playing our young guys who had shown promise, to playing Tyus all the way until post ASW and then seemingly being a bit tuned out himself, it's just been a disaster of a hire. I don't recall the details but I believe both Vogel and Bud came on board on pretty big multi-year contracts as well so that's gotta hurt Ish's pocket. The word toxic never really came to mind but now that you brought it up, there definitely seems like there's smoke even if there's not necessarily fire.

I mean, thank goodness Mavs have been an even bigger disaster because it's really savings Ish and our butts from a bad publicity standpoint

[Sunsdeuce]

Two coaches in two years but it’s the coaches fault? Maybe just maybe it’s the players.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Two coaches in two years but it’s the coaches fault? Maybe just maybe it’s the players.

Or both? Actually multiple things and surely all factors would need to go immediately for us to be able to get back on track.

But the problem is that the owner himself and GM Jones can't or won't be dismissed, so we can't experience a legitimate fresh start.

The smaller factors however such as the coach and some cumulative of the roster will be switched out as a deflective strategy to distract and pass the bulk of the blame elsewhere from our clown show ownership and front office.

[Sunsdeuce]

Two coaches in two years but it’s the coaches fault? Maybe just maybe it’s the players.

Or both? Actually multiple things and surely all factors would need to go immediately for us to be able to get back on track.

But the problem is that the owner himself and GM Jones can't or won't be dismissed, so we can't experience a legitimate fresh start.

The smaller factors however such as the coach and some cumulative of the roster will be switched out as a deflective strategy to distract and pass the bulk of the blame elsewhere from our clown show ownership and front office.

True. But my point is, you can’t keep Booker and KD and expect different results

[lilfishi22]

Two coaches in two years but it’s the coaches fault? Maybe just maybe it’s the players.

The roster is definitely the bigger of the issues but to go backwards and go backwards this much on defense despite having a better roster is probably on Bud

[Puff]

"We may have found what we are looking for" in Cody Martin. I could not take my eyes off of him. He was all over the court busting his azz on every play. Maybe he just followed the lead of Oso and Dunn. Man, they are fun to watch. It was also fun to watch KD stuck in the corner and not dribbling for 20 second while turning it over. Add Gillespie in the mix and you have a great attitude, Book seemed to thrive while it appeared KD kind of pouted but did have a solid game.

I have wondered why Bud has been sitting Oso and Dunn, they are fun to watch. If Dunn keeps making those three pointers and taking it strong to the hoop. We may become watchable again. This is why we need to fire Bud. He has not utilized what talent he does have. He has minimized it by playing only the guys with the big contracts. Did anyone miss Bradley (Street Clothes #2). Worst contract in the NBA. Wait maybe Embiid and PG13 are worse.

It was just one game but it was enjoyable. One of the few times this season.

Go Suns

[Ghost of Kleine]

Two coaches in two years but it’s the coaches fault? Maybe just maybe it’s the players.

Or both? Actually multiple things and surely all factors would need to go immediately for us to be able to get back on track.

But the problem is that the owner himself and GM Jones can't or won't be dismissed, so we can't experience a legitimate fresh start.

The smaller factors however such as the coach and some cumulative of the roster will be switched out as a deflective strategy to distract and pass the bulk of the blame elsewhere from our clown show ownership and front office.

True. But my point is, you can’t keep Booker and KD and expect different results

I don't think keeping either one of them really does anything other than keeps us in a repetitive cycle of extreme mediocrity! And with no legitimate future as they become yet another case of depreciated value assets that we'll hold onto for too long while still accomplishing nothing truly measurable.

But typical with the NBA is that you can't just fire players. And star players are more heavily insulated from most scrutiny and/or accountability anyways. So the usual targets will always be the coaches and front office personnel. We need a complete tear down from the very top. But that won't happen.

And Ishbia would never trade his Detroit "Boys Club" captain Booker. So he'll continue only doing minimal to half measures as our franchise slowly (or rapidly) sinks into the abyss.

[BobbieL]

Or both? Actually multiple things and surely all factors would need to go immediately for us to be able to get back on track.

But the problem is that the owner himself and GM Jones can't or won't be dismissed, so we can't experience a legitimate fresh start.

The smaller factors however such as the coach and some cumulative of the roster will be switched out as a deflective strategy to distract and pass the bulk of the blame elsewhere from our clown show ownership and front office.

True. But my point is, you can’t keep Booker and KD and expect different results

I don't think keeping either one of them really does anything other than keeps us in a repetitive cycle of extreme mediocrity! And with no legitimate future as they become yet another case of depreciated value assets that we'll hold to long while accomplishing nothing truly measurable.

But typical with the NBA is that you can't just fire players. And star players are insulated from most everything anyways. So the atypical targets will always be the coaches and front office personnel. We need a complete tear down from the very top. But that won't happen.

And Ishbia would never trade his Detroit "Boys Club" captain Booker. So he'll continue only doing minimal to half measures as our franchise slowly (or rapidly) sinks into the abyss. :-?

I still expect Ishbia to do something really stupid -- trade for a big money player because it makes it look like he is trying and not giving up and will include draft picks to do it.

Maybe Booker will get frustrated and demand a trade. But more than likely, sitting at his home in PV, making $60m - he just doesn't care and wants to "stick around" and like you said, losing all potential to rebuild this year

[Saberestar]

Bradley Beal OUT at least for a week.

We are 10W-2L when KD an Book play this season without Beal.

11W-2L if you want to add the last Clippers win when he was out all the 2nd half.

The results without him are too good to ignore it.

Another example...we saw how terrible we were in the first half @ Lakers with him playing a good amount of minutes. He was out for the 2nd half and we were much better and made a run and reduced the Lakers advantage to just 8.

[BobbieL]

Bradley Beal OUT at least for a week.

We are 10W-2L when KD an Book play this season without Beal.

11W-2L if you want to add the last Clippers win when he was out all the 2nd half.

The results without him are too good to ignore it.

Another example...we saw how terrible we were in the first half @ Lakers with him playing a good amount of minutes. He was out for the 2nd half and we were much better and made a run and reduced the Lakers advantage to just 8.

Interesting to see how they play - Morey is hoping for a big week so Ishbia can trade for PG13 if Beal were to waive the NTC

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

[Puff]

Bradley Beal OUT at least for a week.

We are 10W-2L when KD an Book play this season without Beal.

11W-2L if you want to add the last Clippers win when he was out all the 2nd half.

The results without him are too good to ignore it.

Another example...we saw how terrible we were in the first half @ Lakers with him playing a good amount of minutes. He was out for the 2nd half and we were much better and made a run and reduced the Lakers advantage to just 8.

If this is true, then Bud needs to give Cody Martin Beal's minutes. We do not need Martin's scoring we need his hustle and grit. The unfortunate part is that Beal's trade value for the next off season continues to tank. It appears that we will have that awful contract hanging over our heads for the next two years or we will trade for a worse contract, PG13. Maybe we should just have him stay at home for the next 2 years.

Some on this board praised the trade for Beal. I hated it at the time, and it has become worse over time. Unless we get a great haul for KD this summer, I am not sure that we will be better by trading him. I like some of the suggested trades, but we will see the real facts this summer. Young good players and some very good draft picks would be nice.

[BobbieL]

Bradley Beal OUT at least for a week.

We are 10W-2L when KD an Book play this season without Beal.

11W-2L if you want to add the last Clippers win when he was out all the 2nd half.

The results without him are too good to ignore it.

Another example...we saw how terrible we were in the first half @ Lakers with him playing a good amount of minutes. He was out for the 2nd half and we were much better and made a run and reduced the Lakers advantage to just 8.

If this is true, then Bud needs to give Cody Martin Beal's minutes. We do not need Martin's scoring we need his hustle and grit. The unfortunate part is that Beal's trade value for the next off season continues to tank. It appears that we will have that awful contract hanging over our heads for the next two years or we will trade for a worse contract, PG13. Maybe we should just have him stay at home for the next 2 years.

Some on this board praised the trade for Beal. I hated it at the time, and it has become worse over time. Unless we get a great haul for KD this summer, I am not sure that we will be better by trading him. I like some of the suggested trades, but we will see the real facts this summer. Young good players and some very good draft picks would be nice.

I understand your point -- but just have to see what they get for him. And I am not sure a Durant trade will get enough to be able to put around Booker to compete for more than the play-in game. At best. Which is why I think they have to trade both of them, blow it up and start a rebuild. Beal might have a market in the summer of 2026 as a large expiring.

Thats the reality the Suns are in. So sure Ishbia can use the press to say "we are building around BOoker" - and maybe that will happen, Booker is kept. It doesn't mean its the right long-term move for the team. Heck its not even the right short term move. I think if you trade Durant -- surround Booker with that group. Probably not enough. Bickley is right - they would be in purgatory and if you miss out on trading Booker this summer, the value could drop precipitously.

[Ghost of Kleine]

True. But my point is, you can’t keep Booker and KD and expect different results

I don't think keeping either one of them really does anything other than keeps us in a repetitive cycle of extreme mediocrity! And with no legitimate future as they become yet another case of depreciated value assets that we'll hold to long while accomplishing nothing truly measurable.

But typical with the NBA is that you can't just fire players. And star players are insulated from most everything anyways. So the atypical targets will always be the coaches and front office personnel. We need a complete tear down from the very top. But that won't happen.

And Ishbia would never trade his Detroit "Boys Club" captain Booker. So he'll continue only doing minimal to half measures as our franchise slowly (or rapidly) sinks into the abyss. :-?

I still expect Ishbia to do something really stupid -- trade for a big money player because it makes it look like he is trying and not giving up and will include draft picks to do it.

Maybe Booker will get frustrated and demand a trade. But more than likely, sitting at his home in PV, making $60m - he just doesn't care and wants to "stick around" and like you said, losing all potential to rebuild this year

He absolutely will! And Booker will get frustrated and ask out within the next 2 seasons with only half the market value that he'd otherwise have if logically traded this summer!

I just don't get the thought process of Ishbia in all of this? Keep Booker, still obviously trade KD , and try to trade Beal (which won't happen with his NTC anyways). But say you successfully trade both! You're still not getting a star or young top tier talent back in a trade for either.


So once Booker's the last man standing even with a depth of role players, teams will just more easily double and triple team him to get the ball out of his hand forcing the suns to rely on bench players to beat them! So this half measures reload mentality will in no way help the situation improve anyways.

And Booker will only be wasting his remaining prime years here and our team will remain at best still very mediocre to bad as a fringe lottery team struggling every season just to make the play in tournament if lucky! And while hemorrhaging lottery picks that otherwise could've become franchise cornerstone players for us on cost controlled deals too.

How is any of this reload garbage actually make sense to anyone? It just doesn't in any capacity.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

So that's a league best defensive rating when.those two play. While it's well known that our defense oils our biggest issue leading to the majority of our losses, and it's somehow taken.over 60+ games for our coaching staff and front office to understand this?

This also speaks to the importance of fielding young, athletic, high energy players throughout our roster to energize our aging " no fu*** given " team. Because young players are actually hungry and competitive with something to prove!

Perhaps Ishbia should start rethinking his position on.the draft and value of draft picks??

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

So that's a league best defensive rating when.those two play. While it's well known that our defense oils our biggest issue leading to the majority of our losses, and it's somehow taken.over 60+ games for our coaching staff and front office to understand this?

This also speaks to the importance of fielding young, athletic, high energy players throughout our roster to energize our aging " no fu*** given " team. Because young players are actually hungry and competitive with something to prove!

Perhaps Ishbia should start rethinking his position on.the draft and value of draft picks??

I truly truly TRULY hope the not trade Booker stuff is just talk to not tank or limit his value

[Puff]

Read on Twitter

So that's a league best defensive rating when.those two play. While it's well known that our defense oils our biggest issue leading to the majority of our losses, and it's somehow taken.over 60+ games for our coaching staff and front office to understand this?

This also speaks to the importance of fielding young, athletic, high energy players throughout our roster to energize our aging " no fu*** given " team. Because young players are actually hungry and competitive with something to prove!

Perhaps Ishbia should start rethinking his position on.the draft and value of draft picks?? :wink:

I truly truly TRULY hope the not trade Booker stuff is just talk to not tank or limit his value

Book looked like a different player with KD stuck in the corner and getting the real contributions that, Oso, Duun, Gillespie and Cody brought. Was it reminiscent of when we had the twins? I think it could be.

Trade KD for a couple of good youngsters + picks just might be enough to make us at the very least fun to watch. Don't get me wrong, I would love a championship, but a watchable Suns team would be just fine.

Gambo brought up the idea of a waive and stretch of Beal this summer. That would mean $22mil per year for 5 years against the cap rather than 50+ for the next 2 years. If we try to trade him we will get crappy players and cost us draft picks to dump. His acquisition gets worse and worse. Would the trade of KD be good for his play? Book is going nowhere.

What would you do. Waive and Stretch, or just ride out the next two years of Beal?

[garrick]

Read on Twitter

So that's a league best defensive rating when.those two play. While it's well known that our defense oils our biggest issue leading to the majority of our losses, and it's somehow taken.over 60+ games for our coaching staff and front office to understand this?

This also speaks to the importance of fielding young, athletic, high energy players throughout our roster to energize our aging " no fu*** given " team. Because young players are actually hungry and competitive with something to prove!

Perhaps Ishbia should start rethinking his position on.the draft and value of draft picks??

I truly truly TRULY hope the not trade Booker stuff is just talk to not tank or limit his value

Book looked like a different player with KD stuck in the corner and getting the real contributions that, Oso, Duun, Gillespie and Cody brought. Was it reminiscent of when we had the twins? I think it could be.

Trade KD for a couple of good youngsters + picks just might be enough to make us at the very least fun to watch. Don't get me wrong, I would love a championship, but a watchable Suns team would be just fine.

Gambo brought up the idea of a waive and stretch of Beal this summer. That would mean $22mil per year for 5 years against the cap rather than 50+ for the next 2 years. If we try to trade him we will get crappy players and cost us draft picks to dump. His acquisition gets worse and worse. Would the trade of KD be good for his play? Book is going nowhere.

What would you do. Waive and Stretch, or just ride out the next two years of Beal?

If no one is willing to take Beal than I would waive and stretch if there's clear signs no one wants him and he's going to be a shell of his former self.

If KD can just be a decoy from the perimeter I think that would help a lot with Book's game but we saw how KD didn't like that last season so having three ball dominant players is just one of the issues hurting our offense and it's not surprising with Beal sitting and KD sitting out most of the 2nd that the team looks a lot better with better passing and being more engaged on defense.

The writing is on the wall that KD is gone and it was a failed experiment not because KD was a bad player by any means but the roster construction and pairing with Booker was always a bad fit.

[sunsbum]

Read on Twitter

So that's a league best defensive rating when.those two play. While it's well known that our defense oils our biggest issue leading to the majority of our losses, and it's somehow taken.over 60+ games for our coaching staff and front office to understand this?

This also speaks to the importance of fielding young, athletic, high energy players throughout our roster to energize our aging " no fu*** given " team. Because young players are actually hungry and competitive with something to prove!

Perhaps Ishbia should start rethinking his position on.the draft and value of draft picks??

I truly truly TRULY hope the not trade Booker stuff is just talk to not tank or limit his value

these 2 would be absolutely **** if it wasn’t for book and KD. Don’t get lost in the sauce. Devin isn’t getting traded, have fun typing out worthless trade scenarios built from hopium for the next 6 months.