The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1

[bwgood77]

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[bwgood77]

The national perspective of Ishbia is REalLY BAd!

http://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/44684331
“Worst NBA owner in NBA history”

I don't agree with Stephen A often, but he's right on the money there.

[bwgood77]

Well, it would require our front "orifice" actually being fairly creative and choosing to use some assets from whatever KD trade package we could beneficially pull. But his speculated value in trade being depreciated by his durability/ weight concerns put his current value in the range of maybe 2-3 good or young players and two firsts maybe???

So for the right package, knowing that the Pels front office is ready to move on, and Zion's value is currently fairly low, it could be reasonable that we could attain him?? It would behoove our front office to at least explore what kind of value their seeking/ hoping for and then maybe negotiate from there?

They also may want to get off of Murray's long term money too, so they could embrace a full rebuild around their core of Jones, Murphy, Missi, and Hawkins, etc. So maybe there could be something there for them with Beal soon to he a huge expiring ( If he could be amenable).

But even if he isn't, maybe wherever he would agree to go, some pieces from that team and perhaps some from a KD trade? For the combination of Zion and Murray somehow? OKC could offer significant young talent and picks ( have almost 30 picks to hurn through) in a KD trade and reroute some of that to the Pels?

I'd have to look into it some more though obviously...lol.

I don't hate the idea of Williamson if compared to say Markkanen or Towns.
I think its a buy low option -- and maybe can just use the Durant trade to get Zion
The contract isn't horrible if you can get him healthy
Booker and him - might work

Or like you said - flip Zion to another team and get those assets back

I think the Pelicans will want picks or young players for Zion.

Out of the 3 teams (presumably) interested in KD Houston is the one with more picks and youngsters available by far so they could be the third team.

Houston gets KD.

Pelicans gets FVV, Tari Eason, Whitmore and 2027 unprotected pick (via Rockets).

Suns gets Zion, Olynyk and 2029 unprotected FRP (via Rockets).

Not in love with the trade but could be a decent one. Zion is a superhigh risk superhigh reward player.

I don't really see us getting that kind of return for KD, but, if we could, that is one other way we could have a chance, to take a player that has that high risk/reward and hope he stays healthy/gets in shape. But I just don't see KD having more value than Zion.

[bullsaficianado]

There is not many better coaches out there now than Bud. So it was pointless to fire him. Now you have to hire another head coach and pay even more money.

[bwgood77]

The Phoenix Suns are expected to have an extensive, wide-ranging coaching search.

Several coaching candidates are expected to be in the mix, including potential first-time NBA head coaches, including Cleveland Cavaliers associate head coach Johnnie Bryant, Houston Rockets assistant coaches Royal Ivey and Ben Sullivan, Miami Heat associate head coach Chris Quinn

I think this list of 4 isn't bad. I mainly like them because I think they all coach under the best coaches in the NBA.

[sunsbum]

Are you a Booker fan or a Suns fan? If it's the latter, you should sign a friggin petition to trade his a$$ outta here, not jab at people who are talking about it. Jesus...

What’s to talk about though? it’s not happening. Ishbia stamped that fire out months ago and is following through with it with this contract extension.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Knicks are 2nd apron. Best we can get is a single player from them. It'd have to be multi-team. Even then, KD isn't worth all that.

AI Overview

The New York Knicks are currently not over the second apron. They are projected to have $8,045,816 in second-apron space, meaning they are below the threshold.
Here's a breakdown:

Salary Cap:
The Knicks are over the salary cap, but under the second apron.

Second Apron Space:
They have $8,045,816 in second-apron space, meaning they are below the second apron threshold.

Impact of Brunson's Contract:
Jalen Brunson's contract decision played a key role in the Knicks staying under the second apron.

Trade Restrictions:
Teams above the second apron face significant trade restrictions.

So actually the Knicks are 8 million under the 2nd apron, and even sending out other players to a 3rd team ( prior to a KD trade) for smaller contracts or cap space and picks could get them more flexibility and assets to throw into a KD trade.

Of course we could just trade for a singular player in KAT which would work offensively, but KAT is just so very bad defensively that our outcome might actually be worse unless we can creatively surround Book and KAT with some high end defenders somehow using packages around Beal, Allen and O'neale.

Personally if getting KAT, I'd look at really aggressively trying to somehow get Isaac from Orlando and Sochan from San Antonio? That'd give us Dunn, Sochan and Isaac.

Then I'd look to trade back with Charlotte in the draft for their 33rd and 34th picks to take Rocco Zisarky ( Gobert 2.0) and Myles Byrd or JoJo Tugler at 34. Myles Byrd is a 6'7 version of Josh Green. And Tugler is a 6'8 version of Montrez Harrell with a ( 7'6 WINGSPAN)!!!

Really just load up on defensive players around Booker, KAT with a big two and depth pieces throughout the roster??

- Would Orlando do a Beal/ CLE 29' 1st for Isaac/ KCP/ Harris ( 7 million expiring) / Bidatze? ( Maybe pull a 2nd out of it) if lucky??

- Would San Antonio do an O'neale/ Richards for Sochan/ Wesley/ 26' 2nds deal? Because they could really use floor spacing, a quality low cost backup center and more vet experience around Wemby and because Sochan/ Wesley can't really shoot at all anyways?

Booker/ KCP/ Sochan/ KAT/ Isaac.
Paul/ Trent Jr/ Dunn/ Nance/ Bidatze
Gillespie/ Byrd/ KCP/ Bol/ Zisarky.

I really don't get all the Beal Trades. Why would any team would take on the worst contract of the league.
Only chance would be that the suns would attach a pick and/or take on longer contracts. Both sceanrios are near impossible right now.

Because of the key details that many are overlooking or intentionally sidestepping, in that after this next season he becomes a $57 million expiring!!!. That's no small amount of money that can clear significant cap space from a team's books, help create massive cap space towards a loaded 27' free agency that summer as he'd come off the books. AND regardless of his NTC and durability concerns, he's still capable of putting up significant production ( 18-20 points a game) on very good - great efficiency. Kind of like a slightly lesser version of Booker.

Obviously, teams still need skilled scorers/ shot creators, so there's value in that, and if he plays really well for any receiving team, they can opt to bring him back from free ageency on a new deal (once he comes off the books), on avcheaper deal, maybe around $15-20 million WITHOUT THE DREADED NTC!!! This is also an important consideration that sways the optics of value with those previous conditions no longer being a factor.

[BobbieL]

The Phoenix Suns are expected to have an extensive, wide-ranging coaching search.

Several coaching candidates are expected to be in the mix, including potential first-time NBA head coaches, including Cleveland Cavaliers associate head coach Johnnie Bryant, Houston Rockets assistant coaches Royal Ivey and Ben Sullivan, Miami Heat associate head coach Chris Quinn

I think this list of 4 isn't bad. I mainly like them because I think they all coach under the best coaches in the NBA.

Cassell interests me too
I think he has worked for Lue and now in Boston - -thats not bad either

[BobbieL]

I don't hate the idea of Williamson if compared to say Markkanen or Towns.
I think its a buy low option -- and maybe can just use the Durant trade to get Zion
The contract isn't horrible if you can get him healthy
Booker and him - might work

Or like you said - flip Zion to another team and get those assets back

I think the Pelicans will want picks or young players for Zion.

Out of the 3 teams (presumably) interested in KD Houston is the one with more picks and youngsters available by far so they could be the third team.

Houston gets KD.

Pelicans gets FVV, Tari Eason, Whitmore and 2027 unprotected pick (via Rockets).

Suns gets Zion, Olynyk and 2029 unprotected FRP (via Rockets).

Not in love with the trade but could be a decent one. Zion is a superhigh risk superhigh reward player.

I don't really see us getting that kind of return for KD, but, if we could, that is one other way we could have a chance, to take a player that has that high risk/reward and hope he stays healthy/gets in shape. But I just don't see KD having more value than Zion.

The trade I can see happening is the Pincus trade
Rockets; KD
Suns: Markkanen, Jock and a FRP

the Jazz: a bunch of good assets from the Rockets

Ishbia will want to build around Booker so why not take on that contract -- because "hey, I am spending money. I am trying!!" -- type attitude

where as I think the Rockets with players and picks would be better to build around Booker. Suns need

[Slim Charless]

I don't hate the idea of Williamson if compared to say Markkanen or Towns.
I think its a buy low option -- and maybe can just use the Durant trade to get Zion
The contract isn't horrible if you can get him healthy
Booker and him - might work

Or like you said - flip Zion to another team and get those assets back

I think the Pelicans will want picks or young players for Zion.

Out of the 3 teams (presumably) interested in KD Houston is the one with more picks and youngsters available by far so they could be the third team.

Houston gets KD.

Pelicans gets FVV, Tari Eason, Whitmore and 2027 unprotected pick (via Rockets).

Suns gets Zion, Olynyk and 2029 unprotected FRP (via Rockets).

Not in love with the trade but could be a decent one. Zion is a superhigh risk superhigh reward player.

I don't really see us getting that kind of return for KD, but, if we could, that is one other way we could have a chance, to take a player that has that high risk/reward and hope he stays healthy/gets in shape. But I just don't see KD having more value than Zion.

After you bashed me for years and years for suggesting Zion. Now he has more value than Durant?

[BobbieL]

I think the Pelicans will want picks or young players for Zion.

Out of the 3 teams (presumably) interested in KD Houston is the one with more picks and youngsters available by far so they could be the third team.

Houston gets KD.

Pelicans gets FVV, Tari Eason, Whitmore and 2027 unprotected pick (via Rockets).

Suns gets Zion, Olynyk and 2029 unprotected FRP (via Rockets).

Not in love with the trade but could be a decent one. Zion is a superhigh risk superhigh reward player.

I don't really see us getting that kind of return for KD, but, if we could, that is one other way we could have a chance, to take a player that has that high risk/reward and hope he stays healthy/gets in shape. But I just don't see KD having more value than Zion.

After you bashed me for years and years for suggesting Zion. Now he has more value than Durant?

He is younger and is signed to a decent contract. Just not sure how much value Durant will have that the Pelicans can get enough from the Heat for instance or a 3rd team to allow Phoenix to get Zion without giving up more picks. Which diminishes the value of Durant - not that Ishbia cares

[lilfishi22]

There is not many better coaches out there now than Bud. So it was pointless to fire him. Now you have to hire another head coach and pay even more money.

He had to go. I was a big fan of the signing but quite honestly, between the inconsistent PT especially for the young guys, to not be able to get anything more from virtually anyone and seemingly losing the locker room, he just had to go. Before the season, I kind of had the thought that no matter what, we should stick with him even through a rebuild/reload scenario but the way this season went, it's clear both sides just needs to move on.

For every dollar Ishbia now has to pay in ex-coaches, buyouts, tax and other expenses, hopefully it's getting him to consider whether that new dollar he spends is a Hail Mary dollar or a no-regrets dollar.

[lilfishi22]

I think this list of 4 isn't bad. I mainly like them because I think they all coach under the best coaches in the NBA.

Cassell interests me too
I think he has worked for Lue and now in Boston - -thats not bad either

All I know is that Cassell is highly regarded and is very often in consideration for a HC role, seemingly for the last two decades (or whenever he started coaching) but he always seems to get to the final rounds and someone else gets picked. It's happened so many times, I wonder what it is about him

[Ghost of Kleine]

I don't hate the idea of Williamson if compared to say Markkanen or Towns.
I think its a buy low option -- and maybe can just use the Durant trade to get Zion
The contract isn't horrible if you can get him healthy
Booker and him - might work

Or like you said - flip Zion to another team and get those assets back

I think the Pelicans will want picks or young players for Zion.

Out of the 3 teams (presumably) interested in KD Houston is the one with more picks and youngsters available by far so they could be the third team.

Houston gets KD.

Pelicans gets FVV, Tari Eason, Whitmore and 2027 unprotected pick (via Rockets).

Suns gets Zion, Olynyk and 2029 unprotected FRP (via Rockets).

Not in love with the trade but could be a decent one. Zion is a superhigh risk superhigh reward player.

I don't really see us getting that kind of return for KD, but, if we could, that is one other way we could have a chance, to take a player that has that high risk/reward and hope he stays healthy/gets in shape. But I just don't see KD having more value than Zion.

Again! Some good points here by all. But Zion's extension (3 yrs), which begins this next season and ends in 28' is fully unguaranteed! for the remaining three sdasons. This was triggered by the games he's missed this last season, and means Zion can be waived at any point over the next three seasons if he misses more games due to conditioning without any further cost incurred for the team itself. Therefore Zion becomes a Minimal risk/ Very high reward outcome. While buying relatively low on a first-tier 1A "alpha" option that Booker could obviously play off of due to the immense lateral and vertical gravity he creates!

And if for any reason it doesn't work out with Zion here, you'd have a tradable asset for a 40+ million non-guaranteed contract that we could waive or move to a team with interest! It would all depend upon what the Pels would be looking for in a Zion trade? Some hypothetical speculation puts his current value (due to durability issues/ time missed/ conditioning discipline, etc at maybe 2-3 solid players, and two 1sts of decent value.

If we could move Allen and O'neale for some decent players, and then focus KD on returning more Young players and picks from some team, then perhaps we could build a package that is competitive. It would all depend upon the team and package in a 3 teeam trade?

[BobbieL]

I think this list of 4 isn't bad. I mainly like them because I think they all coach under the best coaches in the NBA.

Cassell interests me too
I think he has worked for Lue and now in Boston - -thats not bad either

All I know is that Cassell is highly regarded and is very often in consideration for a HC role, seemingly for the last two decades (or whenever he started coaching) but he always seems to get to the final rounds and someone else gets picked. It's happened so many times, I wonder what it is about him

My thing with Cassell - and maybe I am off base - but Booker needs a presence around him as he has shown he is not a leader. Not sure if a coach can be that guy but Cassell, did the big balls thing - and maybe that can rub off on the team.

Besides not thinking Bookers game will age well -- I just am not sure he is worth the extension if 1) you cannot build the right team around him 2) him show leadering

So I think -- fine, keeping Booker - see if both of the above things can happen. If the team improves and he shows leadership - fine. If not, trade him next year

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Frank Lee]

Come on Slim, Durant only has a couple yrs left… no doubt he was worth more 2-3 ago. Unwad those panties.

That said, I’d go Zion and Olynyck may be a pick if they offer for the Grim Sleeper. Best fix it dice roll I’ve seen.. Add a bonifide PG like Sexton / Smart / ? somehow. I’d at least watch till it was unwatchable……

Who knows. Get The Big Z away from that rich NOLA food, may be he stays trim. Shtttt, I’d gain 20+ if I lived there.

[BobbieL]

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Other than the harassment stuff and being a jerk -- I would rather have Bobby S than Ishbia

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Other than the harassment stuff and being a jerk -- I would rather have Bobby S than Ishbia

Both are pretty bad! Sarver is like a veery cheap, miserly version of Donald Sterling! And Ishbia is like a rich, narcissistically compulsive version of Ted Stepien. It's crazy that we've gone between both polar extremes of super cheeap azzhat to recklessly compulsive overspender! The law of averages would say that our next owner should fall in the range of a more normal, happy medium!

[Ghost of Kleine]

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