2020 Offseason Speculation, free agency, summer trades (keep draft prospect talk in draft thread)

[darmani]

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[WeekapaugGroove]

While I'm still going to make fun of Sarver for being cheap but another note is there's a pretty good chance the gleague won't happen at all this coming season due to covid19.

Honestly I'm most curious what Detroit is gaining buying a gleague franchise half way across the country. What's their end game with that?
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They're relocating it to Detroit in 2021.

https://www.nba.com/pistons/news/detroit-pistons-purchase-northern-arizona-suns-phoenix-suns

The rebranded team is expected to play in a new arena currently being constructed on the campus of Wayne State University beginning in the 2021-22 season.

The Pistons current “hybrid” affiliation with the Grand Rapids Drive will continue through the 2020-21 NBA G League season. The Phoenix Suns will continue to operate the Northern Arizona Suns for the 2020-21 season.

That makes sense but I'm still confused what happens to the grand rapids team after next year. Why didn't they just move to Detroit? Does Detroit plan on having 2 teams?

Edit: looked at the Pistons board and I guess the owners of the grand rapids team didn't want to move. I guess they will be an independent affiliate in a year or something.

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[LV-Suns]

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This is what I was hoping when I heard they are moving the team to the city, not sell the damn team. Multiple teams have shown how valuable a gleague team can be. We are probably the worst in the league when it comes to player development. This is total cost cutting move, I don’t see any way around it. Sarver being Sarver.

[WeekapaugGroove]

While we should definitely make fun of Sarver for being cheap let's also poke a little fun that the Allen family owners of Portland with a net worth of 20+ billion and the Walton/Kroenkes owners of the Nuggets with a net worth 8+ billion for also not bothering to own their own gleague team

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[Ghost of Kleine]

Does anyone else think that this may be a potential red flag/ indication that IF Sarver ( banker that he is) is actually having similiar financial concerns too, That he might feel adverse to us being a tax paying team in free agency. So wouldn't he then typically choose the cheapest available option? Whether that be bringing everyone back on cheap ( 1 yr deals)? Or IF cheaper to renounce everyone and then find cheaper cost effective options. However, The brightside being that next summer, With all the apparent financial constraints throughout the league, There might not only be less suitors willing to offer large scale bids on Oubre, But also more quality free agents forced to consider cheaper / longer term deals for security. But then again, It only takes one big offer to lose Oubre with Sarver being Sarver!

[WeekapaugGroove]

Does anyone else think that this may be a potential red flag/ indication that IF Sarver ( banker that he is) is actually having similiar financial concerns too, That he might feel adverse to us being a tax paying team in free agency. So wouldn't he then typically choose the cheapest available option? Whether that be bringing everyone back on cheap ( 1 yr deals)? Or IF cheaper to renounce everyone and then find cheaper cost effective options. However, The brightside being that next summer, With all the apparent financial constraints throughout the league, There might not only be less suitors willing to offer large scale bids on Oubre, But also more quality free agents forced to consider cheaper / longer term deals for security. But then again, It only takes one big offer to lose Oubre with Sarver being Sarver!

Should be noted it would be almost impossible for the suns to be a tax team next season. The tax line is over 20M on top of the cap line. Very few owners in the league like being above the tax line.

The only way the suns could even be significantly over the CAP next year would be giving saric and Baynes big contracts. If they sign outside FAs they can only spend up to the cap line.

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[LV-Suns]

He just hasn’t been blatantly cheap like selling first round picks, but the cheapness never stopped with him. Until Monty, he was always hiring the cheapest coach available. Even recently, he apparently fired the entire scouting staff along with McD, and never bothered replacing most of them. We lost our training staff to New Orleans last summer. Now he sold the Gleague team. It’s one thing or another, he is always cutting costs somewhere.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

He just hasn’t been blatantly cheap like selling first round picks, but the cheapness never stopped with him. Until Monty, he was always hiring the cheapest coach available. Even recently, he apparently fired the entire scouting staff along with McD, and never bothered replacing most of them. We lost our training staff to New Orleans last summer. Now he sold the Gleague team.

Can't blame him for wanting to fire his entire scouting department. Was their batting record with draft picks not the worst?

I, too, condemned him for not replacing the scouting department. But it's hard to stay mad with the way Cam Johnson has blossomed. I'll get mad if they blow this next draft, but I'll be reserving judgment, as everyone should have with Cam, apparently.

[ATTL]

Get ready for our number 10 pick to be sold for cash.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Does anyone else think that this may be a potential red flag/ indication that IF Sarver ( banker that he is) is actually having similiar financial concerns too, That he might feel adverse to us being a tax paying team in free agency. So wouldn't he then typically choose the cheapest available option? Whether that be bringing everyone back on cheap ( 1 yr deals)? Or IF cheaper to renounce everyone and then find cheaper cost effective options. However, The brightside being that next summer, With all the apparent financial constraints throughout the league, There might not only be less suitors willing to offer large scale bids on Oubre, But also more quality free agents forced to consider cheaper / longer term deals for security. But then again, It only takes one big offer to lose Oubre with Sarver being Sarver!

Should be noted it would be almost impossible for the suns to be a tax team next season. The tax line is over 20M on top of the cap line. Very few owners in the league like being above the tax line.

The only way the suns could even be significantly over the CAP next year would be giving saric and Baynes big contracts. If they sign outside FAs they can only spend up to the cap line.

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Definitely, But I'm not even considering the tax implications to the tax line primarily. But rather the potential of Sarver looking to likely further reduce costs apart from that by reducing payroll and going with even cheaper replacement considerations to the roster ( regardless of potential team detriment) in order to recoup some of his recent losses? Basically I'm wondering if he'd opt to not bring everyone back, But instead seek to replace them with cheaper alternatives in order to save a bit more money over the next season or two?

[bwgood77]

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?s=21

That's weird they left out

*Sarver wanted the money

[bwgood77]

While I'm still going to make fun of Sarver for being cheap but another note is there's a pretty good chance the gleague won't happen at all this coming season due to covid19.

Honestly I'm most curious what Detroit is gaining buying a gleague franchise half way across the country. What's their end game with that?
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They are going to play at Wayne St University after this next season, but the arena is currently in development.

[bwgood77]

While we should definitely make fun of Sarver for being cheap let's also poke a little fun that the Allen family owners of Portland with a net worth of 20+ billion and the Walton/Kroenkes owners of the Nuggets with a net worth 8+ billion for also not bothering to own their own gleague team

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Ultimately Sarver just isn't all that rich reltatively speaking to the other owners. His net worth was like $400 million when he bought the team and it was still listed at $400 million in 2019. He had to highly leverage to buy the team I believe and even though the team is valued over like $1.6 billion his net worth is still listed a lot less.

A lot of these owners have like 10x or more the money he does. Paul Allen has 50x the net worth.

[bwgood77]

Does anyone else think that this may be a potential red flag/ indication that IF Sarver ( banker that he is) is actually having similiar financial concerns too, That he might feel adverse to us being a tax paying team in free agency. So wouldn't he then typically choose the cheapest available option? Whether that be bringing everyone back on cheap ( 1 yr deals)? Or IF cheaper to renounce everyone and then find cheaper cost effective options. However, The brightside being that next summer, With all the apparent financial constraints throughout the league, There might not only be less suitors willing to offer large scale bids on Oubre, But also more quality free agents forced to consider cheaper / longer term deals for security. But then again, It only takes one big offer to lose Oubre with Sarver being Sarver!

Should be noted it would be almost impossible for the suns to be a tax team next season. The tax line is over 20M on top of the cap line. Very few owners in the league like being above the tax line.

The only way the suns could even be significantly over the CAP next year would be giving saric and Baynes big contracts. If they sign outside FAs they can only spend up to the cap line.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Definitely, But I'm not even considering the tax implications to the tax line primarily. But rather the potential of Sarver looking to likely further reduce costs apart from that by reducing payroll and going with even cheaper replacement considerations to the roster ( regardless of potential team detriment) in order to recoup some of his recent losses? Basically I'm wondering if he'd opt to not bring everyone back, But instead seek to replace them with cheaper alternatives in order to save a bit more money over the next season or two?

Even if you are under the cap you still have to pay the difference to your players. He may just not want to go over it.

Personally, if he was having financial strain, selling the G league team is something I'd much rather see first...it doesn't necessarily mean it's a sign he will do other things...it could mean he is trying to prevent having to.

However, if he has been hit hard and is having financial problems, maybe he considers selling too...unlikely though.

[bigfoot]

While we should definitely make fun of Sarver for being cheap let's also poke a little fun that the Allen family owners of Portland with a net worth of 20+ billion and the Walton/Kroenkes owners of the Nuggets with a net worth 8+ billion for also not bothering to own their own gleague team

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Ultimately Sarver just isn't all that rich reltatively speaking to the other owners. His net worth was like $400 million when he bought the team and it was still listed at $400 million in 2019. He had to highly leverage to buy the team I believe and even though the team is valued over like $1.6 billion his net worth is still listed a lot less.

A lot of these owners have like 10x or more the money he does. Paul Allen has 50x the net worth.

So Sarver is guppy in a pond full of sharks?

[Ghost of Kleine]

He just hasn’t been blatantly cheap like selling first round picks, but the cheapness never stopped with him. Until Monty, he was always hiring the cheapest coach available. Even recently, he apparently fired the entire scouting staff along with McD, and never bothered replacing most of them. We lost our training staff to New Orleans last summer. Now he sold the Gleague team.

Can't blame him for wanting to fire his entire scouting department. Was their batting record with draft picks not the worst?

I, too, condemned him for not replacing the scouting department. But it's hard to stay mad with the way Cam Johnson has blossomed. I'll get mad if they blow this next draft, but I'll be reserving judgment, as everyone should have with Cam, apparently.

Maybe!

But for my part, It's hard to really give an accurate assessment of the former scouting staff as well as McD. I say this as there were just so many conflicting reports of Sarver being such an overbearing megalomaniac and control.freak that was constantly overturning the decisions of his front office for his own final determinations. So basically, IF TRUE? ( and his personality traits only seek to bolster this argument) he could have very well used his heavy handed micro managing authority to alter their original decisions/ choices for his own preferences instead. To me, that would definitely add up with the obviously pretty contentious relationship between McD and Sarver that has been repeatedly reported by former employees, players, And NBA analysts too.

Also, it's hard to assess or critique our draft choices accurately as our team development and front office in general has been so very poor for so long! So until the undeniable proofs are fully presented, I'll have to give McD and the former scouting staff a pass. Again due to the relatively high likelihood of Sarvers' repeated control issues and interference?

What is very clear and undeniable is that due to the recent financial constraints and possible future implications, We're best served to address our roster issues primarily through the draft with low cost rookie scale contracts that would offer us cost controlled contracts for the coming 6 years. And also that we absolutely need to add more depth through length, athleticism and high potential prospects to balance out our high IQ yet very average athletes better. We need to add prospects with more explosive athleticism, speed and burst, and strong Isolation scoring ability, So they can create vertical gravity and oppositional gravity for our scorers in Ayton, Booker, Oubre, and Cam. Being able to have these potent athletes that can create gravity and pull defenders away from our primary scorers can only be more beneficial to creating more mismatches and open floor scoring opportunities for us to have better production and maintain our leads more often!

[WeekapaugGroove]

While we should definitely make fun of Sarver for being cheap let's also poke a little fun that the Allen family owners of Portland with a net worth of 20+ billion and the Walton/Kroenkes owners of the Nuggets with a net worth 8+ billion for also not bothering to own their own gleague team

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Ultimately Sarver just isn't all that rich reltatively speaking to the other owners. His net worth was like $400 million when he bought the team and it was still listed at $400 million in 2019. He had to highly leverage to buy the team I believe and even though the team is valued over like $1.6 billion his net worth is still listed a lot less.

A lot of these owners have like 10x or more the money he does. Paul Allen has 50x the net worth.

Oh yeah Sarver is in the bottom group when it comes to wealth of NBA owners. Now I'd also say any NBA owner who can't afford to operate a team should sell and reap the crazy profit because of the skyrocket of franchise values the past decade. Plenty of billionaires out there that want the status symbol of owning a team. (Now no guarantee a new rich owner would actually be better).

Was just pointing out it's kind of funny the other two teams that don't have a gleague team are owned by litteraly two of the most wealthy families in America.

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[ImNotMcDiSwear]

He just hasn’t been blatantly cheap like selling first round picks, but the cheapness never stopped with him. Until Monty, he was always hiring the cheapest coach available. Even recently, he apparently fired the entire scouting staff along with McD, and never bothered replacing most of them. We lost our training staff to New Orleans last summer. Now he sold the Gleague team.

Can't blame him for wanting to fire his entire scouting department. Was their batting record with draft picks not the worst?

I, too, condemned him for not replacing the scouting department. But it's hard to stay mad with the way Cam Johnson has blossomed. I'll get mad if they blow this next draft, but I'll be reserving judgment, as everyone should have with Cam, apparently.

Maybe!

But for my part, It's hard to really give an accurate assessment of the former scouting staff as well as McD. I say this as there were just so many conflicting reports of Sarver being such an overbearing megalomaniac and control.freak that was constantly overturning the decisions of his front office for his own final determinations. So basically, IF TRUE? ( and his personality traits only seek to bolster this argument) he could have very well used his heavy handed micro managing authority to alter their original decisions/ choices for his own preferences instead. To me, that would definitely add up with the obviously pretty contentious relationship between McD and Sarver that has been repeatedly reported by former employees, players, And NBA analysts too.

Also, it's hard to assess or critique our draft choices accurately as our team development and front office in general has been so very poor for so long! So until the undeniable proofs are fully presented, I'll have to give McD and the former scouting staff a pass. Again due to the relatively high likelihood of Sarvers' repeated control issues and interference?

What is very clear and undeniable is that due to the recent financial constraints and possible future implications, We're best served to address our roster issues primarily through the draft with low cost rookie scale contracts that would offer us cost controlled contracts for the coming 6 years. And also that we absolutely need to add more depth through length, athleticism and high potential prospects to balance out our high IQ yet very average athletes better. We need to add prospects with more explosive athleticism, speed and burst, and strong Isolation scoring ability, So they can create vertical gravity and oppositional gravity for our scorers in Ayton, Booker, Oubre, and Cam. Being able to have these potent athletes that can create gravity and pull defenders away from our primary scorers can only be more beneficial to creating more mismatches and open floor scoring opportunities for us to have better production and maintain our leads more often!

Thing is, right after McD was fired, Sarver did a rare radio interview and said that he won't go into everything but (1) McD controlling the draft was the basis for their agreement and (2) McD, not Sarver, made the draft decisions. Even if they had an NDA I think that statement would allow McD to speak openly on that point in response. Though I have a feeling JDLAW has been a lot closer to these sorts of agreements than I have, so I wonder what he thinks.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Can't blame him for wanting to fire his entire scouting department. Was their batting record with draft picks not the worst?

I, too, condemned him for not replacing the scouting department. But it's hard to stay mad with the way Cam Johnson has blossomed. I'll get mad if they blow this next draft, but I'll be reserving judgment, as everyone should have with Cam, apparently.

Maybe!

But for my part, It's hard to really give an accurate assessment of the former scouting staff as well as McD. I say this as there were just so many conflicting reports of Sarver being such an overbearing megalomaniac and control.freak that was constantly overturning the decisions of his front office for his own final determinations. So basically, IF TRUE? ( and his personality traits only seek to bolster this argument) he could have very well used his heavy handed micro managing authority to alter their original decisions/ choices for his own preferences instead. To me, that would definitely add up with the obviously pretty contentious relationship between McD and Sarver that has been repeatedly reported by former employees, players, And NBA analysts too.

Also, it's hard to assess or critique our draft choices accurately as our team development and front office in general has been so very poor for so long! So until the undeniable proofs are fully presented, I'll have to give McD and the former scouting staff a pass. Again due to the relatively high likelihood of Sarvers' repeated control issues and interference?

What is very clear and undeniable is that due to the recent financial constraints and possible future implications, We're best served to address our roster issues primarily through the draft with low cost rookie scale contracts that would offer us cost controlled contracts for the coming 6 years. And also that we absolutely need to add more depth through length, athleticism and high potential prospects to balance out our high IQ yet very average athletes better. We need to add prospects with more explosive athleticism, speed and burst, and strong Isolation scoring ability, So they can create vertical gravity and oppositional gravity for our scorers in Ayton, Booker, Oubre, and Cam. Being able to have these potent athletes that can create gravity and pull defenders away from our primary scorers can only be more beneficial to creating more mismatches and open floor scoring opportunities for us to have better production and maintain our leads more often!

Thing is, right after McD was fired, Sarver did a rare radio interview and said that he won't go into everything but (1) McD controlling the draft was the basis for their agreement and (2) McD, not Sarver, made the draft decisions. Even if they had an NDA I think that statement would allow McD to speak openly on that point in response. Though I have a feeling JDLAW has been a lot closer to these sorts of agreements than I have, so I wonder what he thinks.

Again, You of course could be right! IF what Sarver said was in fact true ( and not just mere damage control). However, to be fair, As stated, There were varying reports indicating the contrary, That Sarver often had often invoked his authority to have Final say in the overwhelming majority of front office decisions with respect to the draft, trades, etc. Including many former front office employees, league affiliates and analysts familiar with Sarver indicating their disdain for his narcissistic, controlling and severe micromanaging behaviors. Lastly, I don't expect someone like Sarver ( given his narcissistic personality to openly admit to/ take responsibility for any heavily criticized front office decisions). But again, that's just my opinion based off many varying reports indicating the same premise. Perhaps the radio interview was just more damage control with McD being the intended scapegoat. Which then adds credibility to the adversarial and overtly contentious relationship that they shared? In the end, it's very hard to guage, and only time will tell if Sarver shows the same patterns and tendencies even post McD era. But his admitted interest in interviews ( post McD) to step back and be less involved, and actually let his GM have more autonomy in decisions, At least to me, Would indicate some level of guilt and authenticity to the argument against him. I guess we may never know for sure.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Maybe!

But for my part, It's hard to really give an accurate assessment of the former scouting staff as well as McD. I say this as there were just so many conflicting reports of Sarver being such an overbearing megalomaniac and control.freak that was constantly overturning the decisions of his front office for his own final determinations. So basically, IF TRUE? ( and his personality traits only seek to bolster this argument) he could have very well used his heavy handed micro managing authority to alter their original decisions/ choices for his own preferences instead. To me, that would definitely add up with the obviously pretty contentious relationship between McD and Sarver that has been repeatedly reported by former employees, players, And NBA analysts too.

Also, it's hard to assess or critique our draft choices accurately as our team development and front office in general has been so very poor for so long! So until the undeniable proofs are fully presented, I'll have to give McD and the former scouting staff a pass. Again due to the relatively high likelihood of Sarvers' repeated control issues and interference?

What is very clear and undeniable is that due to the recent financial constraints and possible future implications, We're best served to address our roster issues primarily through the draft with low cost rookie scale contracts that would offer us cost controlled contracts for the coming 6 years. And also that we absolutely need to add more depth through length, athleticism and high potential prospects to balance out our high IQ yet very average athletes better. We need to add prospects with more explosive athleticism, speed and burst, and strong Isolation scoring ability, So they can create vertical gravity and oppositional gravity for our scorers in Ayton, Booker, Oubre, and Cam. Being able to have these potent athletes that can create gravity and pull defenders away from our primary scorers can only be more beneficial to creating more mismatches and open floor scoring opportunities for us to have better production and maintain our leads more often!

Thing is, right after McD was fired, Sarver did a rare radio interview and said that he won't go into everything but (1) McD controlling the draft was the basis for their agreement and (2) McD, not Sarver, made the draft decisions. Even if they had an NDA I think that statement would allow McD to speak openly on that point in response. Though I have a feeling JDLAW has been a lot closer to these sorts of agreements than I have, so I wonder what he thinks.

Again, You of course could be right! IF what Sarver said was in fact true ( and not just mere damage control). However, to be fair, As stated, There were varying reports indicating the contrary, That Sarver often had often invoked his authority to have Final say in the overwhelming majority of front office decisions with respect to the draft, trades, etc. Including many former front office employees, league affiliates and analysts familiar with Sarver indicating their disdain for his narcissistic, controlling and severe micromanaging behaviors. Lastly, I don't expect someone like Sarver ( given his narcissistic personality to openly admit to/ take responsibility for any heavily criticized front office decisions). But again, that's just my opinion based off many varying reports indicating the same premise. Perhaps the radio interview was just more damage control with McD being the intended scapegoat. Which then adds credibility to the adversarial and overtly contentious relationship that they shared? In the end, it's very hard to guage, and only time will tell if Sarver shows the same patterns and tendencies even post McD era. But his admitted interest in interviews ( post McD) to step back and be less involved, and actually let his GM have more autonomy in decisions, At least to me, Would indicate some level of guilt and authenticity to the argument against him. I guess we may never know for sure.

I remember that interview and Sarver definitely went out of his way to say McD ran the draft, I actually tend to believe him on that one because McD loves to blame people and he's never really pushed back. Frankly owners having final say in big decisions is not unusual, they sign off on all major contracts and trades. One example is Mark Cuban has mentioned he veto'd them drafting Giannis and was a mistake he learned from. I also remember Zach Lowe on a pod talking about a time he was talking to a GM about another GM and saying 'well they work for X owner so maybe this wasn't their fault' and that GM stopped him and said one of the main jobs of a GM is to manage their owner and sell their vision so ultimately if you can't get something done it's as much on you as the owner.

The real inappropriate **** that Sarver has supposedly done is getting on coaches about rotations and in game strategy, that's just sticking your nose somewhere that you don't belong and can create a bad environment. He's also tried to go cheap on coaching hires prior to Monty and much like life you typically get what you pay for.

I've said this before but there's no worse thing than having a bad owner for your team. Bad GMs, coaches, or players are temporary but a bad owner is there for as long as they choose (barring pulling a Sterling).

Add: I'm more annoyed he laid off 30 team staffers than the gleague thing.