Is Hornacek the problem?

[Revived]

With this team playing so well right now, does Hornacek keep the starting lineup intact, or does he automatically start a rusty Knight when he returns?
Personally, I love having PJ start at SG - I think it gives us size and D that we otherwise lack there - which makes it interesting to see where Knight fits in. Given the need to sign Price and Barron it does make the trading of Ennis and Plumlee a little perplexing.

Perhaps try:

Bledsoe/ Knight
Tucker/ Goodwin
Marcus/ Warren
Markieff/ Marcus
Len/ Wright

While Knight gets back in game shape. That'd be a decent rotation I think.

I'm with you. I think adding Knight to the starting lineup may make us slightly better offensively but lot worse defensively and rebounding wise.

At the very least, have him come off the bench for the first couple games.

However due this being a contract year for him, I do wonder if it will piss off him and his agent to have his client come off the bench instead of starting.

[Sun Scorched]

Got it.

So all we need is LeBron and Popovich and we can win a championship?

Brilliant.

Why try explaining? It's like talking to a

Cute.

[Sunsss]

More like "Is Hornacek a mastermind?"

[Mulhollanddrive]

Size, defending and rebounding is important.

[Revived]

Size, defending and rebounding is important.

I hope he realized that his 2 PG crap does not work and that we're finally playing well with some actual size at both SG (6'6 Tucker) and SF (6'8 Marcus).

[KqWIN]

Interesting to read some of the thoughts on Utah's rebuild here. There are definitely some parallels between the two franchises but I think there was a different mentality heading into the season. Phoenix was trying to make the playoffs whereas Utah was looking to build an identity and establish their core group of players. Hornacek is driven by results while Quin is driven by progress.

There have been many little things that Quin has done that don't necessarily lead to W's right away. It's been said many times that Quin prefers a good practice to a good game. He keeps Hayward's and Favors's minutes consistent even it means some games get lost when they're bench. Earlier in the season he took guys very quickly due to foul trouble not to save them for later, but to create a habit of not fouling. He has a roster that only consists of young/inexperienced players and he's molding them to his liking.

I'm not saying Hornacek does none of this, but I don't think he has the luxury like Quin does. There is much more pressure on Hornacek to win.

[tdjm]

Size, defending and rebounding is important.

I hope he realized that his 2 PG crap does not work and that we're finally playing well with some actual size at both SG (6'6 Tucker) and SF (6'8 Marcus).

It's a real luxury being bigger than the other team for once, that's for sure. I am also in the camp of bring in Knight off the bench the rest of the season. There's plenty of minutes for him to take. He obviously gets all the backup PG minutes, he can take a few minutes from Bledsoe (definitely a necessity or Bledsoe is going to break down for the home stretch, he's been playing some major minutes). Other guys need to see their minutes counts drop for health reasons. Knight can easily carve 30 minutes +- 5 out of the rotation, he just needs to do it off the bench.

[bwgood77]

Interesting to read some of the thoughts on Utah's rebuild here. There are definitely some parallels between the two franchises but I think there was a different mentality heading into the season. Phoenix was trying to make the playoffs whereas Utah was looking to build an identity and establish their core group of players. Hornacek is driven by results while Quin is driven by progress.

There have been many little things that Quin has done that don't necessarily lead to W's right away. It's been said many times that Quin prefers a good practice to a good game. He keeps Hayward's and Favors's minutes consistent even it means some games get lost when they're bench. Earlier in the season he took guys very quickly due to foul trouble not to save them for later, but to create a habit of not fouling. He has a roster that only consists of young/inexperienced players and he's molding them to his liking.

I'm not saying Hornacek does none of this, but I don't think he has the luxury like Quin does. There is much more pressure on Hornacek to win.

I think the bold part is right, and I think it is mostly because Sarver REALLY wants to make the playoffs every year, and really focuses on the short term, sometimes when it may not be the best move for the long term. I think he has gotten better than he used to be.

I think the main problem was that the team and Hornacek overachieved so much last year, with basically three first time starters, maybe four (not sure Frye ever was a full time starter prior to last year). The team was expected to struggle and I think the plan was to go through a proper rebuild. Then signing Thomas really forced us to sacrifice young guy's time because you can't sign guys in FA, telling them they will get plenty of time, and then bench them (or at least it won't help you to sign guys in the future, if players are unhappy playing for the Suns).

I think the trades at the deadline altered our approach to be more in line with Utah's.

Last year and the first half of this year we were a bit like your years where you were kind of rebuilding but still held onto Millsap and Jefferson for a while trying to make the playoffs, despite not really having a complete veteran team, and having half of the young guys...your young bigs were just sitting on the bench most of the time.

But it mainly helps that you have had higher draft picks and gotten more talent, and made the great Gobert pick.

[bwgood77]

Size, defending and rebounding is important.

I hope he realized that his 2 PG crap does not work and that we're finally playing well with some actual size at both SG (6'6 Tucker) and SF (6'8 Marcus).

It's a real luxury being bigger than the other team for once, that's for sure. I am also in the camp of bring in Knight off the bench the rest of the season. There's plenty of minutes for him to take. He obviously gets all the backup PG minutes, he can take a few minutes from Bledsoe (definitely a necessity or Bledsoe is going to break down for the home stretch, he's been playing some major minutes). Other guys need to see their minutes counts drop for health reasons. Knight can easily carve 30 minutes +- 5 out of the rotation, he just needs to do it off the bench.

And with Len, the twins, Tucker and Bledsoe, we suddenly become a pretty good rebounding team....and Tucker guarding 2s helps a ton. I'm not sure about who should start, but that lineup looks like it's working.

If this lineup looks that good for awhile, that trade giving up the pick looks worse. It's tough though because I still like Knight and I'm not sure you keep him if you don't start him but I'd hate to have traded the pick and Ennis for nothing if we let him walk. Ultimately you sign him and if it makes sense to trade him later you do. If you can get him to a reasonable contract, he will probably have trade value once the cap goes up or even in anticipation of the cap going up. I really don't expect them to be a big market for him.

[tdjm]

I hope he realized that his 2 PG crap does not work and that we're finally playing well with some actual size at both SG (6'6 Tucker) and SF (6'8 Marcus).

It's a real luxury being bigger than the other team for once, that's for sure. I am also in the camp of bring in Knight off the bench the rest of the season. There's plenty of minutes for him to take. He obviously gets all the backup PG minutes, he can take a few minutes from Bledsoe (definitely a necessity or Bledsoe is going to break down for the home stretch, he's been playing some major minutes). Other guys need to see their minutes counts drop for health reasons. Knight can easily carve 30 minutes +- 5 out of the rotation, he just needs to do it off the bench.

And with Len, the twins, Tucker and Bledsoe, we suddenly become a pretty good rebounding team....and Tucker guarding 2s helps a ton. I'm not sure about who should start, but that lineup looks like it's working.

If this lineup looks that good for awhile, that trade giving up the pick looks worse. It's tough though because I still like Knight and I'm not sure you keep him if you don't start him but I'd hate to have traded the pick and Ennis for nothing if we let him walk. Ultimately you sign him and if it makes sense to trade him later you do. If you can get him to a reasonable contract, he will probably have trade value once the cap goes up or even in anticipation of the cap going up. I really don't expect them to be a big market for him.

Well, I do love the increased defense and rebounding that we have just as much as anyone but we've been horrendous on offense when Bledsoe sits. None of the bandaid backup PGs are working out at all, Goodwin is boom or bust running the backup point - desperately need Knight there at the moment, especially because Bledsoe has been playing way too many minutes the last few games. Knight HAS to cut into his time or he's going to wear down.

A lot depends on if Knight really believes the "team first" stuff. If he does, and he's happy playing near-starters minutes from the bench while he gets acclimated going into next year, then we're fine. If he doesn't, and he's peeved going into RFA, then we lost the trade and I'll live with it. There's a lot I'm willing to live with if we keep playing defense and rebounding like this.

There is one more reason I don't like Knight starting...and that reason is he hasn't been very good. At all. He's shot 37% from the floor and 34% from three. His defense has been GHASTLY. Truly, truly horrible. He pretty much single handedly lost the Miami game by letting Chalmers constantly blow past him and letting Tyler freaking Johnson drop a colossal career high right on his head. In the Orlando game that we ended up winning, him starting at the 2 forced Bledsoe to cover Oladipo...and that ended with an Oladipo career high. With our current lineup, Tucker draws the tougher matchup and gives Bledsoe the space to run the offense. Knight's posting career lows or near career lows in most every counting stat or advanced stat since he came here to boot (http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... hbr03.html).

I just feel like he doesn't deserve to have the starting spot handed to him. Len had to battle and claw his way into the starting lineup even after Plumlee was a disaster and it took him about 10-15 games longer than it should have to get promoted. Why should Knight walk onto a new team and displace everyone else? That's wrong.

I don't think Knight is unsalvageable by any means. A lot of him improving is going to be going through a training camp and some game time with these guys. Since he's been bad, why not start doing it from the bench? Fills a huge need for the team, and might be easier on him to get acclimated. There's still plenty of minutes going around, he's not getting shafted or buried by any means, but he really doesn't deserve to start at the moment in my mind. He needs to earn it.

[bwgood77]

It's a real luxury being bigger than the other team for once, that's for sure. I am also in the camp of bring in Knight off the bench the rest of the season. There's plenty of minutes for him to take. He obviously gets all the backup PG minutes, he can take a few minutes from Bledsoe (definitely a necessity or Bledsoe is going to break down for the home stretch, he's been playing some major minutes). Other guys need to see their minutes counts drop for health reasons. Knight can easily carve 30 minutes +- 5 out of the rotation, he just needs to do it off the bench.

And with Len, the twins, Tucker and Bledsoe, we suddenly become a pretty good rebounding team....and Tucker guarding 2s helps a ton. I'm not sure about who should start, but that lineup looks like it's working.

If this lineup looks that good for awhile, that trade giving up the pick looks worse. It's tough though because I still like Knight and I'm not sure you keep him if you don't start him but I'd hate to have traded the pick and Ennis for nothing if we let him walk. Ultimately you sign him and if it makes sense to trade him later you do. If you can get him to a reasonable contract, he will probably have trade value once the cap goes up or even in anticipation of the cap going up. I really don't expect them to be a big market for him.

Well, I do love the increased defense and rebounding that we have just as much as anyone but we've been horrendous on offense when Bledsoe sits. None of the bandaid backup PGs are working out at all, Goodwin is boom or bust running the backup point - desperately need Knight there at the moment, especially because Bledsoe has been playing way too many minutes the last few games. Knight HAS to cut into his time or he's going to wear down.

A lot depends on if Knight really believes the "team first" stuff. If he does, and he's happy playing near-starters minutes from the bench while he gets acclimated going into next year, then we're fine. If he doesn't, and he's peeved going into RFA, then we lost the trade and I'll live with it. There's a lot I'm willing to live with if we keep playing defense and rebounding like this.

There is one more reason I don't like Knight starting...and that reason is he hasn't been very good. At all. He's shot 37% from the floor and 34% from three. His defense has been GHASTLY. Truly, truly horrible. He pretty much single handedly lost the Miami game by letting Chalmers constantly blow past him and letting Tyler freaking Johnson drop a colossal career high right on his head. In the Orlando game that we ended up winning, him starting at the 2 forced Bledsoe to cover Oladipo...and that ended with an Oladipo career high. With our current lineup, Tucker draws the tougher matchup and gives Bledsoe the space to run the offense. Knight's posting career lows or near career lows in most every counting stat or advanced stat since he came here to boot (http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... hbr03.html).

I just feel like he doesn't deserve to have the starting spot handed to him. Len had to battle and claw his way into the starting lineup even after Plumlee was a disaster and it took him about 10-15 games longer than it should have to get promoted. Why should Knight walk onto a new team and displace everyone else? That's wrong.

I don't think Knight is unsalvageable by any means. A lot of him improving is going to be going through a training camp and some game time with these guys. Since he's been bad, why not start doing it from the bench? Fills a huge need for the team, and might be easier on him to get acclimated. There's still plenty of minutes going around, he's not getting shafted or buried by any means, but he really doesn't deserve to start at the moment in my mind. He needs to earn it.

I don't mind starting him just for the sake of it to see if he gets going early with the starters. His defense will not be as glaring if he is clicking offensively, but I might take him out pretty early, like after 4-5 minutes, and then bring in Tucker to suddenly change the defensive intensity which would be a little shocking after getting settled against Knight defensively (for the 2). Then when Bledsoe sits at say the 8-9 minute mark, you bring him back in and keep Tucker at the 2 (or Goodwin), and he plays the last few minutes if the first and the first few minutes of the second while Bledsoe sits. I don't mind if they play together some, but not all the time, and you always need to have one of them on the floor.

[Puff]

Bump

Yes Hornacek is the problem.

[Mulhollanddrive]

If Hornacek is the problem, then our FO is the problem.

We hire guys we like and know. We aren't clinical enough to get the next Popovich or Jackson, because we don't hire (or rarely) hire coaches who coached under greats for some reason.

[grumpysaddle]

If Hornacek is the problem, then our FO is the problem.

We hire guys we like and know. We aren't clinical enough to get the next Popovich or Jackson, because we don't hire (or rarely) hire coaches who coached under greats for some reason.

You realize Hornacek was an assistant coach under Jerry Sloan, right?

[Mulhollanddrive]

For Sloan's final 3 months.

Not quite like being under Popovich for 15 years leading a mediocre talent team to no.1 in the East.

Budenholzer was signed 2 days after we signed Hornacek.

I'm not even saying Hornacek is a bad coach, but if he gets moved on, we're not getting the next Popovich or Jackson protege based on our track record, most likely someone we already know and like.

[Mr-Al]

Interesting to read some of the thoughts on Utah's rebuild here. There are definitely some parallels between the two franchises but I think there was a different mentality heading into the season. Phoenix was trying to make the playoffs whereas Utah was looking to build an identity and establish their core group of players. Hornacek is driven by results while Quin is driven by progress.

There have been many little things that Quin has done that don't necessarily lead to W's right away. It's been said many times that Quin prefers a good practice to a good game. He keeps Hayward's and Favors's minutes consistent even it means some games get lost when they're bench. Earlier in the season he took guys very quickly due to foul trouble not to save them for later, but to create a habit of not fouling. He has a roster that only consists of young/inexperienced players and he's molding them to his liking.

I'm not saying Hornacek does none of this, but I don't think he has the luxury like Quin does. There is much more pressure on Hornacek to win.

this sounds beautiful

[asubennett]

Last night's game told me that Hornacek is not capable of making adjustments. If the opposing team places immense on ball pressure, jumps our passing lanes, and fronts our posts - we look like an elementary basketball team. It's like we freak out....

Bledsoe dribbles too high and doesn't have flawless handles. Knight has very good handles but picks his dribble up too quickly and the most glaring problem our entire team has is ZERO outside shooting.

Our offseason priority has to be outside shooting. We are a good 14 - 19ft jump shooting team. Unfortunately, that is the most inefficient shot in all of basketball.

[bwgood77]

Last night's game told me that Hornacek is not capable of making adjustments. If the opposing team places immense on ball pressure, jumps our passing lanes, and fronts our posts - we look like an elementary basketball team. It's like we freak out....

Bledsoe dribbles too high and doesn't have flawless handles. Knight has very good handles but picks his dribble up too quickly and the most glaring problem our entire team has is ZERO outside shooting.

Our offseason priority has to be outside shooting. We are a good 14 - 19ft jump shooting team. Unfortunately, that is the most inefficient shot in all of basketball.

The problem is our team is young, and it will be very difficult for us to be effective at all times, regardless of coaching, until guys develop and develop chemistry. Many of the really good teams have been playing together for years, or they have an extraordinary playmaker who is good at elevating those around him (Harden for example).

[asubennett]

Last night's game told me that Hornacek is not capable of making adjustments. If the opposing team places immense on ball pressure, jumps our passing lanes, and fronts our posts - we look like an elementary basketball team. It's like we freak out....

Bledsoe dribbles too high and doesn't have flawless handles. Knight has very good handles but picks his dribble up too quickly and the most glaring problem our entire team has is ZERO outside shooting.

Our offseason priority has to be outside shooting. We are a good 14 - 19ft jump shooting team. Unfortunately, that is the most inefficient shot in all of basketball.

The problem is our team is young, and it will be very difficult for us to be effective at all times, regardless of coaching, until guys develop and develop chemistry. Many of the really good teams have been playing together for years, or they have an extraordinary playmaker who is good at elevating those around him (Harden for example).

We are young but I don't like our pieces. Bledsoe needs real shooters around him to be effective. We don't have shooters. We have good mid range shooters but no true knock it down from behind 24ft consistently.

Bledsoe is great when he has space. Unfortunately he has no space because everyone is camped inside the 3pt line. Knight is not a spot up shooter yet. He might be someday... has a nice stroke but misses too much.

Tucker is a beast of a two guard but handles are suspect and can only shoot from the corner. Marcus and Markief are super streaky. No consistency. that might be age or it might be knucklehead syndrome. Jury is out. Len needs to learn not to put the ball down low when he catches it. Go straight up. Also needs to learn how to get position in the post so he catches it in a good spot. Could be youth problem as well.

Goodwin is redundant to Knight and Bledsoe. Not a good shooter outside. TJ Warren is another good mid range player.

Essentially we have NO POST and NO THREE POINT shooting. It all comes from the very congested, high risk low reward 14-20 foot mark on the court. yuck!

[bwgood77]

Last night's game told me that Hornacek is not capable of making adjustments. If the opposing team places immense on ball pressure, jumps our passing lanes, and fronts our posts - we look like an elementary basketball team. It's like we freak out....

Bledsoe dribbles too high and doesn't have flawless handles. Knight has very good handles but picks his dribble up too quickly and the most glaring problem our entire team has is ZERO outside shooting.

Our offseason priority has to be outside shooting. We are a good 14 - 19ft jump shooting team. Unfortunately, that is the most inefficient shot in all of basketball.

The problem is our team is young, and it will be very difficult for us to be effective at all times, regardless of coaching, until guys develop and develop chemistry. Many of the really good teams have been playing together for years, or they have an extraordinary playmaker who is good at elevating those around him (Harden for example).

We are young but I don't like our pieces. Bledsoe needs real shooters around him to be effective. We don't have shooters. We have good mid range shooters but no true knock it down from behind 24ft consistently.

Bledsoe is great when he has space. Unfortunately he has no space because everyone is camped inside the 3pt line. Knight is not a spot up shooter yet. He might be someday... has a nice stroke but misses too much.

Tucker is a beast of a two guard but handles are suspect and can only shoot from the corner. Marcus and Markief are super streaky. No consistency. that might be age or it might be knucklehead syndrome. Jury is out. Len needs to learn not to put the ball down low when he catches it. Go straight up. Also needs to learn how to get position in the post so he catches it in a good spot. Could be youth problem as well.

Goodwin is redundant to Knight and Bledsoe. Not a good shooter outside. TJ Warren is another good mid range player.

Essentially we have NO POST and NO THREE POINT shooting. It all comes from the very congested, high risk low reward 14-20 foot mark on the court. yuck!

I agree. I love to have great three point shooting and to whip it around the perimeter to the open guy like our old Suns teams, or the Warriors, Hawks and Spurs of today.

Knight was a good three pt shooter this year in Milwaukee. Wasn't he like 44%? Hopefully Warren develops a 3 pt shot, and if so, he will be crazy good. This is one reason I'd like to see more of Bullock to see what he's got.