Draft Thread: Who do you want with the 13th pick? Stanley Johnson and WCS added..change votes if you want

[JMac1]

Kaminsky has a poor frame as far as NBA PF's go. I just can't see him not getting manhandled defensively and on the boards. He's almost like a less-athletic Laettner without the mean streak.

People thought the same about Kevin Love.

I think Kaminsky would be a perfect stretch 4 or 5 with Alex at the other big. That guy is sound and can shoot lights out. He also has pretty good ball handling, post moves and mid-range game.

[RunDogGun]

Kaminsky has a poor frame as far as NBA PF's go. I just can't see him not getting manhandled defensively and on the boards. He's almost like a less-athletic Laettner without the mean streak.

People thought the same about Kevin Love.

I think Kaminsky would be a perfect stretch 4 or 5 with Alex at the other big. That guy is sound and can shoot lights out. He also has pretty good ball handling, post moves and mid-range game.

He looked good last night. But unless we trade up, I doubt he will be there when we pick. I think his stock will continue to rise, especially if Wis can beat Duke.

[DirtyDez]

Kaminsky has a poor frame as far as NBA PF's go. I just can't see him not getting manhandled defensively and on the boards. He's almost like a less-athletic Laettner without the mean streak.

People thought the same about Kevin Love.

I think Kaminsky would be a perfect stretch 4 or 5 with Alex at the other big. That guy is sound and can shoot lights out. He also has pretty good ball handling, post moves and mid-range game.

Kevin Love had a massive base. His build is the complete opposite of Kaminsky. Also he was 19 and Kaminsky is 22.

[Frank Lee]

Nobody in our range excites me.... have to find that rough diamond. I'm looking to move up to the top 6 where we could get a kid who could go right now.

I see this as a marketing strategy to make up for the abortion-al attempts to put a likable/good team on the court this yr. Bled and the MoBros could be peddled off or a rebirthing via draft picks. Never been a fan of trying to rebuild that way but the time is right. Go with a low low payroll and take the lumps of getting out the mistakes made. be a much easier sell in the ticket office to back a group of up and comers instead of these sullen sulkers we have now.

[JMac1]

Kaminsky has a poor frame as far as NBA PF's go. I just can't see him not getting manhandled defensively and on the boards. He's almost like a less-athletic Laettner without the mean streak.

People thought the same about Kevin Love.

I think Kaminsky would be a perfect stretch 4 or 5 with Alex at the other big. That guy is sound and can shoot lights out. He also has pretty good ball handling, post moves and mid-range game.

Kevin Love had a massive base. His build is the complete opposite of Kaminsky. Also he was 19 and Kaminsky is 22.

In hindsight it is easy to look for reason to explain why Love proved people wrong. 22 is not 26. I know people get all caught up into thinking 22 years old is over the hill and fully developed, but it isn't, especially when it comes to NBA athletic programs VS Wisconsin.

[JMac1]

Kaminsky has a poor frame as far as NBA PF's go. I just can't see him not getting manhandled defensively and on the boards. He's almost like a less-athletic Laettner without the mean streak.

People thought the same about Kevin Love.

I think Kaminsky would be a perfect stretch 4 or 5 with Alex at the other big. That guy is sound and can shoot lights out. He also has pretty good ball handling, post moves and mid-range game.

He looked good last night. But unless we trade up, I doubt he will be there when we pick. I think his stock will continue to rise, especially if Wis can beat Duke.

It will wear off by the end of June. I can see him giving us at least what Frye gave us, but a better inside out game as well.

[Mr-Al]

How would you guys feel about trading Kieff (I don't know if we would include the 13th pick too) to Sactown for the 6th pick?

This would only be if we thought the guy at 6th had real superstar potential and would be gone at 13th

Sactown's starting Carl **** Landry right now and Kieff would space the floor decently and give them a good Gay/Kieff/Cousins frontcourt

I think it's decent value for both sides

(I don't know if Marcus would be a package deal in this sense, but including him might be too much)

[tdjm]

That trade seems...fairly weak. The real prizes in this draft are Russel, Towns, Winslow, and Okafor (in no particular order), although how you value Okafor is entirely dependent on how much you think he'll be capable of developing as a defender. Mudiay, Stein, Oubre, Johnson, Hezonja, Porzingis etc. are all nice upside guys but they are a cut below. They could certainly develop to be better than any of the top 4 guys, but those top 4 guys are all looking like guys with high floors and sky high ceilings.

I would say it is unlikely that a true franchise changing stud is available at sixth. That trade is the type of move you make if one of two things is true. You'd make that trade if 1. Markieff was a free agent after 1 or 2 more years and you were uninterested in signing him, or 2. you were interested in doing a full re-build and wanted to go after the maximum amount of young talent.

Clearly, #1 is not true, as the Suns have re-signed Markieff already. #2 is also not true because it doesn't jive with anything the Suns have done lately, which is aggressively lock in talent (Bledsoe, Morris twins, IT) at good prices before the cap raise. It's why they traded for Knight after retaining Dragic became an impossibility, and it's why they probably would have given Dragic a competitive offer, no matter the size of it had he stayed.

Moreover, this may be the worst time in recent memory to begin a new rebuild, like you would be doing by shipping off a productive player on a cheap contract AND your draft pick to move up. With the impending cap rise, if you have solid talent locked in at pre-rise prices, you're at a unique advantage. If you start a re-build now, when it comes time to add valued contributors, you'll be paying a lot in the post-cap increase world.

The Suns should be looking to aggressively upgrade at every position. Until you find your superstar (your AD, your Durant, your Lebron, your Shaq or Kobe or whatever player you're confident in saying 'you can be the best player on a title team') you need to consider your roster as completely flexible with all players on the trading block for the right price. I'd upgrade at PG if we could (but it seems unlikely). I'd upgrade at SG, SF, PF, or C.

I don't think this is the way to do it. The Morris twins may not be popular here, but I think you would be hard pressed to argue that they wouldn't be great bench forwards as 7th and 8th men. We can win games with them gritting out 40+ minutes as starters - seems like we'd be able to win games if they were on the bench playing 20-30 minutes behind better players, yeah? If it became necessary to trade the Morris twins for a direct upgrade, then of course you pull the trigger, but spewing away them and their extremely favorable contracts plus a draft pick just to move up to a draft slot where you're unlikely to see a real franchise changer seems like a poor move.

I don't think Sac would do this, either. I don't think it fits the needs of either team right now, honestly.

[Mr-Al]

That trade seems...fairly weak. The real prizes in this draft are Russel, Towns, Winslow, and Okafor (in no particular order), although how you value Okafor is entirely dependent on how much you think he'll be capable of developing as a defender. Mudiay, Stein, Oubre, Johnson, Hezonja, Porzingis etc. are all nice upside guys but they are a cut below. They could certainly develop to be better than any of the top 4 guys, but those top 4 guys are all looking like guys with high floors and sky high ceilings.

I would say it is unlikely that a true franchise changing stud is available at sixth. That trade is the type of move you make if one of two things is true. You'd make that trade if 1. Markieff was a free agent after 1 or 2 more years and you were uninterested in signing him, or 2. you were interested in doing a full re-build and wanted to go after the maximum amount of young talent.

Clearly, #1 is not true, as the Suns have re-signed Markieff already. #2 is also not true because it doesn't jive with anything the Suns have done lately, which is aggressively lock in talent (Bledsoe, Morris twins, IT) at good prices before the cap raise. It's why they traded for Knight after retaining Dragic became an impossibility, and it's why they probably would have given Dragic a competitive offer, no matter the size of it had he stayed.

Moreover, this may be the worst time in recent memory to begin a new rebuild, like you would be doing by shipping off a productive player on a cheap contract AND your draft pick to move up. With the impending cap rise, if you have solid talent locked in at pre-rise prices, you're at a unique advantage. If you start a re-build now, when it comes time to add valued contributors, you'll be paying a lot in the post-cap increase world.

The Suns should be looking to aggressively upgrade at every position. Until you find your superstar (your AD, your Durant, your Lebron, your Shaq or Kobe or whatever player you're confident in saying 'you can be the best player on a title team') you need to consider your roster as completely flexible with all players on the trading block for the right price. I'd upgrade at PG if we could (but it seems unlikely). I'd upgrade at SG, SF, PF, or C.

I don't think this is the way to do it. The Morris twins may not be popular here, but I think you would be hard pressed to argue that they wouldn't be great bench forwards as 7th and 8th men. We can win games with them gritting out 40+ minutes as starters - seems like we'd be able to win games if they were on the bench playing 20-30 minutes behind better players, yeah? If it became necessary to trade the Morris twins for a direct upgrade, then of course you pull the trigger, but spewing away them and their extremely favorable contracts plus a draft pick just to move up to a draft slot where you're unlikely to see a real franchise changer seems like a poor move.

I agree with what you're saying for the most part, I also think the Morri with their great contracts can be really good players to have coming off the bench on a contending team

Again though, if the FO, who I personally think has shown adept drafting skill, is completely convinced that someone available at 6th could be a superstar (our Durant etc.), I think you have to do this trade.

I don't think we can afford to pass up these types of opportunities if we really think it's a good pick

Do you guys see any other options besides Sactown in terms of moving up? I saw them as the best candidate and Kieff fit their team the best

[Safety Pickle]

How would you guys feel about trading Kieff (I don't know if we would include the 13th pick too) to Sactown for the 6th pick?

This would only be if we thought the guy at 6th had real superstar potential and would be gone at 13th

Sactown's starting Carl **** Landry right now and Kieff would space the floor decently and give them a good Gay/Kieff/Cousins frontcourt

I think it's decent value for both sides

(I don't know if Marcus would be a package deal in this sense, but including him might be too much)

Markief isn't worth the sixth overall pick. There's no way Sac would even consider this

[Mr-Al]

How would you guys feel about trading Kieff (I don't know if we would include the 13th pick too) to Sactown for the 6th pick?

This would only be if we thought the guy at 6th had real superstar potential and would be gone at 13th

Sactown's starting Carl **** Landry right now and Kieff would space the floor decently and give them a good Gay/Kieff/Cousins frontcourt

I think it's decent value for both sides

(I don't know if Marcus would be a package deal in this sense, but including him might be too much)

Markief isn't worth the sixth overall pick. There's no way Sac would even consider this

thanks, I agree to some degree

people on r/suns somehow think that it's too much to give up on our end

it would probably be Kieff/(Marcus?) & the 13th pick though

[Bogyo]

Not too excited about Kaminsky - I don't think that he would be a lot different player in terms of talent and impact than Markieff for example, even if he turns out good. But I have my reservations about that, as his frame and athletic ability are not up to NBA standards.
Poor mans Hawes, rich mans Bargnani anyone? Thats a 6th, 7th, 8th man. Then again, what do you expect from your average 14th pick...

I'd be all over moving up in this draft, if we could get NY pick somehow. MoBros, Bled, Knight, PJ/TJ, our pick are on the table (not at once, just as possible pieces), depending on where that pick falls, and who is available there.

[thamadkant]

I rather have Demarcus Cousins at 30 million a year than Markieff Morris at 8 million a year.
I rather have Russell Westbrook at 30 million a year than Knight or Bledsoe at 15 million a year.
I rather have Harden at 30 million a year than anyone on the Suns roster even if those players are playing for free...

Look, I understand the Morris twins are a bargain in terms of comparing them to other OVERPAID non-star players, yes, they are a decent value and "fair" contract for sure, but I wouldnt brag too much. I mean, if they were legit All-Stars and are true cornerstones or players you build around, I'll be bragging for having them signed at 1/3 of other MVP candidates...but rather have a top 10 player in the league even at 35 million a year, atleast you know you can build round those players.. OR atleast enjoy watching their star-talent on the team.

[letsgosuns]

I rather have Demarcus Cousins at 30 million a year than Markieff Morris at 8 million a year.
I rather have Russell Westbrook at 30 million a year than Knight or Bledsoe at 15 million a year.
I rather have Harden at 30 million a year than anyone on the Suns roster even if those players are playing for free...

Look, I understand the Morris twins are a bargain in terms of comparing them to other OVERPAID non-star players, yes, they are a decent value and "fair" contract for sure, but I wouldnt brag too much. I mean, if they were legit All-Stars and are true cornerstones or players you build around, I'll be bragging for having them signed at 1/3 of other MVP candidates...but rather have a top 10 player in the league even at 35 million a year, atleast you know you can build round those players.. OR atleast enjoy watching their star-talent on the team.

I agree with this 100%. Many people talk about how the Morris brothers are on these great contracts. I say so what if the Suns are not paying all that much for them. The Suns are not getting all that much from them either. I have said this before. I am not interested in the Suns winning an award for best value contracts. It has not gotten them anywhere yet. Going on five straight years of no playoffs. There is also not that much of an upwards trajectory since Markieff has been on the team. The way I look at it is he is the one constant of the team the past four years. Well the Suns have been truly irrelevant that entire time. McDonough said after he traded Dragic that Bledsoe and Markieff are the Suns best players. Well if Markieff is one of your best players, then you suck. Hahaha. Sad but true.

Markieff averages 15.5 points and 6 rebounds a game. Since when the hell did that become good statistics for your starting power forward who plays nearly 32 mpg and takes almost 14 shots a game? About 16 points on 14 shots? 6 damn rebounds? I used to think Amare was a poor rebounder. Markieff makes Amare look great. Markieff has one thing going for him though. He has a knack for hitting big shots for the Suns at the end of games. I will give him that. However he also screws up constantly. So does his brother. For every one big shot he has hit, I could find three bad things he did in crucial points in games. It is the truth. I can think of three things right now off the top of my head he did at the end of the Golden State game that were bad. He missed a free throw down the stretch (Suns lost by one point). Had that possession down the stretch where he just dribbled the ball away and lost it. He also played bad defense and committed two fouls down the stretch.

You gotta realize, the Morris brothers are bench players. Some fans want to move them to the bench and upgrade the starters and turn Markieff into a sixth man candidate. Well here is my main problem with that. I do not believe you can win with stupid players. Certainly not if they are important parts of your team. The Morris brothers are stupid players. In addition, I mostly think it is time to move on from them. They were brought in by Lance Blanks and the Suns need to build a new culture without them. Yes McDonough is the one that extended them but he can rectify that by trading them. He did that with Thomas. Realized it was a mistake and corrected it. The Suns need to move in a different direction away from the Morris brothers.

[King4Day]

Nobody in our range excites me.... have to find that rough diamond. I'm looking to move up to the top 6 where we could get a kid who could go right now.

I see this as a marketing strategy to make up for the abortion-al attempts to put a likable/good team on the court this yr. Bled and the MoBros could be peddled off or a rebirthing via draft picks. Never been a fan of trying to rebuild that way but the time is right. Go with a low low payroll and take the lumps of getting out the mistakes made. be a much easier sell in the ticket office to back a group of up and comers instead of these sullen sulkers we have now.

This is exactly how I feel. One more year of mediocre Bledsoe and his contract will be tough to get anything for.

The Twins could net us something solid.

I know it's a stretch but could any combination of EB/Twins net us a top 2 or 3 pick (assuming it's NY or LAL that land it)? If they want to compete now, it might be something to consider. I really don't want this mediocrity anymore. I give McDonough credit for trying after this team played far better than expected but it's gotta be all or nothing and I don't see any players, that are acquirable, who can help us get to the next level (not just reaching the playoffs).

[Bogyo]

Nobody in our range excites me.... have to find that rough diamond. I'm looking to move up to the top 6 where we could get a kid who could go right now.

I see this as a marketing strategy to make up for the abortion-al attempts to put a likable/good team on the court this yr. Bled and the MoBros could be peddled off or a rebirthing via draft picks. Never been a fan of trying to rebuild that way but the time is right. Go with a low low payroll and take the lumps of getting out the mistakes made. be a much easier sell in the ticket office to back a group of up and comers instead of these sullen sulkers we have now.

This is exactly how I feel. One more year of mediocre Bledsoe and his contract will be tough to get anything for.

The Twins could net us something solid.

I know it's a stretch but could any combination of EB/Twins net us a top 2 or 3 pick (assuming it's NY or LAL that land it)? If they want to compete now, it might be something to consider. I really don't want this mediocrity anymore. I give McDonough credit for trying after this team played far better than expected but it's gotta be all or nothing and I don't see any players, that are acquirable, who can help us get to the next level (not just reaching the playoffs).

I think it can happen with NY, and less likely with LAL. NY with Melo and capspace - that team could conted in the East next year if they got an FA, Bled and the Twins (while we get Towns or Okafor at number 1 or 2). I'm not sure I can say that about the Lakers with Kobe in the West, so I think they are less likely to do it.

Then there is the question whether our front office likes any of the top 3 guys enough to cough up these serious assets for them.

[bwgood77]

That trade seems...fairly weak. The real prizes in this draft are Russel, Towns, Winslow, and Okafor (in no particular order), although how you value Okafor is entirely dependent on how much you think he'll be capable of developing as a defender. Mudiay, Stein, Oubre, Johnson, Hezonja, Porzingis etc. are all nice upside guys but they are a cut below. They could certainly develop to be better than any of the top 4 guys, but those top 4 guys are all looking like guys with high floors and sky high ceilings.

I would say it is unlikely that a true franchise changing stud is available at sixth. That trade is the type of move you make if one of two things is true. You'd make that trade if 1. Markieff was a free agent after 1 or 2 more years and you were uninterested in signing him, or 2. you were interested in doing a full re-build and wanted to go after the maximum amount of young talent.

Clearly, #1 is not true, as the Suns have re-signed Markieff already. #2 is also not true because it doesn't jive with anything the Suns have done lately, which is aggressively lock in talent (Bledsoe, Morris twins, IT) at good prices before the cap raise. It's why they traded for Knight after retaining Dragic became an impossibility, and it's why they probably would have given Dragic a competitive offer, no matter the size of it had he stayed.

Moreover, this may be the worst time in recent memory to begin a new rebuild, like you would be doing by shipping off a productive player on a cheap contract AND your draft pick to move up. With the impending cap rise, if you have solid talent locked in at pre-rise prices, you're at a unique advantage. If you start a re-build now, when it comes time to add valued contributors, you'll be paying a lot in the post-cap increase world.

The Suns should be looking to aggressively upgrade at every position. Until you find your superstar (your AD, your Durant, your Lebron, your Shaq or Kobe or whatever player you're confident in saying 'you can be the best player on a title team') you need to consider your roster as completely flexible with all players on the trading block for the right price. I'd upgrade at PG if we could (but it seems unlikely). I'd upgrade at SG, SF, PF, or C.

I don't think this is the way to do it. The Morris twins may not be popular here, but I think you would be hard pressed to argue that they wouldn't be great bench forwards as 7th and 8th men. We can win games with them gritting out 40+ minutes as starters - seems like we'd be able to win games if they were on the bench playing 20-30 minutes behind better players, yeah? If it became necessary to trade the Morris twins for a direct upgrade, then of course you pull the trigger, but spewing away them and their extremely favorable contracts plus a draft pick just to move up to a draft slot where you're unlikely to see a real franchise changer seems like a poor move.

I agree with what you're saying for the most part, I also think the Morri with their great contracts can be really good players to have coming off the bench on a contending team

Again though, if the FO, who I personally think has shown adept drafting skill, is completely convinced that someone available at 6th could be a superstar (our Durant etc.), I think you have to do this trade.

I don't think we can afford to pass up these types of opportunities if we really think it's a good pick

Do you guys see any other options besides Sactown in terms of moving up? I saw them as the best candidate and Kieff fit their team the best

Sac would probably be the best bet since they are obviously eager to win now, and I'm sure Karl would rather have a productive starter. I imagine we'd only do it if we value Porzingis or Hezonja that much. Winslow is intriguing but he is a 3, as is Stanley Johnson and some of the others.

If we want a big PF/C, our pick at 13 will get us that, whether it be Looney, Turner, or Lyles.

[bwgood77]

I rather have Demarcus Cousins at 30 million a year than Markieff Morris at 8 million a year.
I rather have Russell Westbrook at 30 million a year than Knight or Bledsoe at 15 million a year.
I rather have Harden at 30 million a year than anyone on the Suns roster even if those players are playing for free...

Look, I understand the Morris twins are a bargain in terms of comparing them to other OVERPAID non-star players, yes, they are a decent value and "fair" contract for sure, but I wouldnt brag too much. I mean, if they were legit All-Stars and are true cornerstones or players you build around, I'll be bragging for having them signed at 1/3 of other MVP candidates...but rather have a top 10 player in the league even at 35 million a year, atleast you know you can build round those players.. OR atleast enjoy watching their star-talent on the team.

I agree with this 100%.

I'm sure everyone agrees with this. But 99% of us know those guys are not, and will not, be available, so discussing that you'd rather have Cousins, Westbrook or Harden than the Morris twins is ridiculously silly.

[bwgood77]

Nobody in our range excites me.... have to find that rough diamond. I'm looking to move up to the top 6 where we could get a kid who could go right now.

I see this as a marketing strategy to make up for the abortion-al attempts to put a likable/good team on the court this yr. Bled and the MoBros could be peddled off or a rebirthing via draft picks. Never been a fan of trying to rebuild that way but the time is right. Go with a low low payroll and take the lumps of getting out the mistakes made. be a much easier sell in the ticket office to back a group of up and comers instead of these sullen sulkers we have now.

This is exactly how I feel. One more year of mediocre Bledsoe and his contract will be tough to get anything for.

The Twins could net us something solid.

I know it's a stretch but could any combination of EB/Twins net us a top 2 or 3 pick (assuming it's NY or LAL that land it)? If they want to compete now, it might be something to consider. I really don't want this mediocrity anymore. I give McDonough credit for trying after this team played far better than expected but it's gotta be all or nothing and I don't see any players, that are acquirable, who can help us get to the next level (not just reaching the playoffs).

I normally wouldn't think so, and I still don't think those are the type of players Phil would want in the triangle, but if that's the best offer they get for those picks, a lineup with Bledsoe, Kieff and Melo would be fairly competitive in the east...at least at the bottom half of the playoff teams....I just don't think those are the types of guys Phil is looking or hoping for.

[saintEscaton]

Lol no way in hell,Phil is doing that deal, would go against common sense. When you have the chance to land a premiere big you take it and don't look back That would probably set the Knicks franchise back for years and turn them into a treadmill team even in a joke of a conference