Game 36: Phoenix Suns (12-23) @ Sacramento Kings (12-20)

[Mr Puddles]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYtksaVCAzI[/youtube]

#MCMDevinBooker4ever

His shot was soooo wet early and those clowns just did not get him the ball. I want Booker to demand the ball more and not acquiesce so much, but I don't want him to become a gunner. It is almost like playing at the rec center, you better shoot it when you touch it because you never know when you are going to touch the ball again with Knight on the court. The guy thinks he is Kobe

Our offense is literally designed to have him stand in the corner. How would we get him the ball? We should be moving him around and having him run off of screens constantly. We don't. It's more than a selfishness issue.

It's definitely our offense, or lack there off. Problem is, I fear at one point Booker will start forcing shots simply because he finally has the ball. It must be frustrating as hell to be in the zone, and then not touch the ball for the next 8 possessions, so he'll start hoisting up bad shots simply because he'll finally have an opportunity to shoot.

Compare the way we play to the way Golden State played against us. When Klay Thompson started hitting his shots in the 3rd his team mates started to actively look for him on each play. In the 3rd quarter, Klay Thompson more than half of the Warriors points (55%) and field goal attempts (9 of 17).

Now compare this to last nights game. Booker scores half of our points in the first 5 minutes, hitting two consecutive three pointers. The next 5 minutes he has zero shot attempts. In the second quarter Booker re-enters and scores 6 points in the first minute. Booker then goes 5 minutes until his next field goal attempt (miss). The remaining 6 minutes of the quarter, Booker doesn't have a field goal attempt. 3rd quarter: 8 1/2 minutes of action, first and only field goal attempt is taken with less than a minute left in the quarter. Basically Booker got off to a solid start twice, and subsequently gets ignored for most of the game.

[RunDogGun]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYtksaVCAzI[/youtube]

#MCMDevinBooker4ever

His shot was soooo wet early and those clowns just did not get him the ball. I want Booker to demand the ball more and not acquiesce so much, but I don't want him to become a gunner. It is almost like playing at the rec center, you better shoot it when you touch it because you never know when you are going to touch the ball again with Knight on the court. The guy thinks he is Kobe

Our offense is literally designed to have him stand in the corner. How would we get him the ball? We should be moving him around and having him run off of screens constantly. We don't. It's more than a selfishness issue.

Ironically, none of the plays in that video have Booker in the corner.

[AtheJ415]

His shot was soooo wet early and those clowns just did not get him the ball. I want Booker to demand the ball more and not acquiesce so much, but I don't want him to become a gunner. It is almost like playing at the rec center, you better shoot it when you touch it because you never know when you are going to touch the ball again with Knight on the court. The guy thinks he is Kobe

Our offense is literally designed to have him stand in the corner. How would we get him the ball? We should be moving him around and having him run off of screens constantly. We don't. It's more than a selfishness issue.

It's definitely our offense, or lack there off. Problem is, I fear at one point Booker will start forcing shots simply because he finally has the ball. It must be frustrating as hell to be in the zone, and then not touch the ball for the next 8 possessions, so he'll start hoisting up bad shots simply because he'll finally have an opportunity to shoot.

Compare the way we play to the way Golden State played against us. When Klay Thompson started hitting his shots in the 3rd his team mates started to actively look for him on each play. In the 3rd quarter, Klay Thompson more than half of the Warriors points (55%) and field goal attempts (9 of 17).

Now compare this to last nights game. Booker scores half of our points in the first 5 minutes, hitting two consecutive three pointers. The next 5 minutes he has zero shot attempts. In the second quarter Booker re-enters and scores 4 points in the first minute. Booker then goes 5 minutes until his next field goal attempt (miss). The remaining 6 minutes of the quarter, Booker doesn't have a field goal attempt. 3rd quarter: 8 1/2 minutes of action, first and only field goal attempt is taken with less than a minute left in the quarter. Basically Booker got off to a solid start twice, and subsequently gets ignored for most of the game.

Definitely agree. Aside from Klay, I'd like to see us use some of the sets Atlanta uses. Frankly, I think we have more similarities personnel-wise with Atlanta at some key spots. Teague is similar playing-style to Bledsoe and Knight. Booker is similar to Korver in terms of shooting ability. We don't have their bigs, and they don't have a guy like Warren, but I would like to see us use some of their sets as well. Korver is constantly run through screens, with 2nd and 3rd options available depending on how it's defended. It's a structured offense that encourages ball movement.

I just don't understand our rotations, and if we're going to run this offense, having a pass first PG isn't going to make us better. Not if our guys are moving so little. I'm fine bringing in a pass first guy, but I think we'd have to change the offense entirely to make that work. The pick and roll can be a key part of the offense, but it can't be the only aspect of an offense with no off-ball movement except for the occasional backdoor cut.

[AtheJ415]

His shot was soooo wet early and those clowns just did not get him the ball. I want Booker to demand the ball more and not acquiesce so much, but I don't want him to become a gunner. It is almost like playing at the rec center, you better shoot it when you touch it because you never know when you are going to touch the ball again with Knight on the court. The guy thinks he is Kobe

Our offense is literally designed to have him stand in the corner. How would we get him the ball? We should be moving him around and having him run off of screens constantly. We don't. It's more than a selfishness issue.

Ironically, none of the plays in that video have Booker in the corner.

That's precisely the point though. He doesn't get the ball in the corner. So how would he score? He's not open in the corner because he's not moving, and so when we get him the ball there he doesn't get shots. The only time that's open is if our guy wins a 1 on 1 matchup and helpside comes off of him, which it will almost never happen if Tucker or Price is on the court and that defender is in helpside--instead they will come off of the weaker shooter.

In the video he has 1 3 from each wing, then a bunch of layups in the open court and secondary break or free throws. Then, he has a stepback deep 2 from the corner, and a postup where he got fouled. So in the entire game, we got him 4 looks that were in the half court. That's bad when he's your best shooter. And coincidentally, all 4 were when he was moving, with 2 off of basic curl screens that were poorly defended. We could and should be doing a lot more to get him shots.

[JMac1]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYtksaVCAzI[/youtube]

#MCMDevinBooker4ever

His shot was soooo wet early and those clowns just did not get him the ball. I want Booker to demand the ball more and not acquiesce so much, but I don't want him to become a gunner. It is almost like playing at the rec center, you better shoot it when you touch it because you never know when you are going to touch the ball again with Knight on the court. The guy thinks he is Kobe

Our offense is literally designed to have him stand in the corner. How would we get him the ball? We should be moving him around and having him run off of screens constantly. We don't. It's more than a selfishness issue.

I am with you 100 percent on that. He just stands there <laughing ruefully>

[JMac1]

His shot was soooo wet early and those clowns just did not get him the ball. I want Booker to demand the ball more and not acquiesce so much, but I don't want him to become a gunner. It is almost like playing at the rec center, you better shoot it when you touch it because you never know when you are going to touch the ball again with Knight on the court. The guy thinks he is Kobe

Our offense is literally designed to have him stand in the corner. How would we get him the ball? We should be moving him around and having him run off of screens constantly. We don't. It's more than a selfishness issue.

It's definitely our offense, or lack there off. Problem is, I fear at one point Booker will start forcing shots simply because he finally has the ball. It must be frustrating as hell to be in the zone, and then not touch the ball for the next 8 possessions, so he'll start hoisting up bad shots simply because he'll finally have an opportunity to shoot.

Compare the way we play to the way Golden State played against us. When Klay Thompson started hitting his shots in the 3rd his team mates started to actively look for him on each play. In the 3rd quarter, Klay Thompson more than half of the Warriors points (55%) and field goal attempts (9 of 17).

Now compare this to last nights game. Booker scores half of our points in the first 5 minutes, hitting two consecutive three pointers. The next 5 minutes he has zero shot attempts. In the second quarter Booker re-enters and scores 6 points in the first minute. Booker then goes 5 minutes until his next field goal attempt (miss). The remaining 6 minutes of the quarter, Booker doesn't have a field goal attempt. 3rd quarter: 8 1/2 minutes of action, first and only field goal attempt is taken with less than a minute left in the quarter. Basically Booker got off to a solid start twice, and subsequently gets ignored for most of the game.

Man, you just pissed me off That is exactly what happened, SMH!

[RunDogGun]

Our offense is literally designed to have him stand in the corner. How would we get him the ball? We should be moving him around and having him run off of screens constantly. We don't. It's more than a selfishness issue.

Ironically, none of the plays in that video have Booker in the corner.

That's precisely the point though. He doesn't get the ball in the corner. So how would he score? He's not open in the corner because he's not moving, and so when we get him the ball there he doesn't get shots. The only time that's open is if our guy wins a 1 on 1 matchup and helpside comes off of him, which it will almost never happen if Tucker or Price is on the court and that defender is in helpside--instead they will come off of the weaker shooter.

In the video he has 1 3 from each wing, then a bunch of layups in the open court and secondary break or free throws. Then, he has a stepback deep 2 from the corner, and a postup where he got fouled. So in the entire game, we got him 4 looks that were in the half court. That's bad when he's your best shooter. And coincidentally, all 4 were when he was moving, with 2 off of basic curl screens that were poorly defended. We could and should be doing a lot more to get him shots.

He is in the corner when he plays the three, or when the three is already in the spot the two would be in to initiate the offense. But he can make the corner three. Having guys in the corner isn't a bad thing, as long as they don't sulk in the corner. PJ often is in that corner position, but once a shot goes up, he goes for the rebound. All it seems to be trying to do is space the floor as much as possible. Sometimes with the personnel on the court it doesn't work well. I think we need more plays, with guys coming off more screens and back cuts, similar to what Hornacek did both here in PHX and in Utah, but maybe we don't have the guys to execute it correctly.

Booker passes up shots too, so let's not get silly about this please.

[RunDogGun]

His shot was soooo wet early and those clowns just did not get him the ball. I want Booker to demand the ball more and not acquiesce so much, but I don't want him to become a gunner. It is almost like playing at the rec center, you better shoot it when you touch it because you never know when you are going to touch the ball again with Knight on the court. The guy thinks he is Kobe

Our offense is literally designed to have him stand in the corner. How would we get him the ball? We should be moving him around and having him run off of screens constantly. We don't. It's more than a selfishness issue.

It's definitely our offense, or lack there off. Problem is, I fear at one point Booker will start forcing shots simply because he finally has the ball. It must be frustrating as hell to be in the zone, and then not touch the ball for the next 8 possessions, so he'll start hoisting up bad shots simply because he'll finally have an opportunity to shoot.

Compare the way we play to the way Golden State played against us. When Klay Thompson started hitting his shots in the 3rd his team mates started to actively look for him on each play. In the 3rd quarter, Klay Thompson more than half of the Warriors points (55%) and field goal attempts (9 of 17).

Now compare this to last nights game. Booker scores half of our points in the first 5 minutes, hitting two consecutive three pointers. The next 5 minutes he has zero shot attempts. In the second quarter Booker re-enters and scores 6 points in the first minute. Booker then goes 5 minutes until his next field goal attempt (miss). The remaining 6 minutes of the quarter, Booker doesn't have a field goal attempt. 3rd quarter: 8 1/2 minutes of action, first and only field goal attempt is taken with less than a minute left in the quarter. Basically Booker got off to a solid start twice, and subsequently gets ignored for most of the game.

I agree that we don't get guys open enough, especially when they are hot, but Booker doesn't try to get himself open like Klay. GSW do a ton of screening, often moving, which rarely gets called. We don't have that luxury, and we get called for those moving screens. Most teams know how well Booker shoots, and put a guy on him as much as possible. Booker passes up open shots as well. Also Klay has a bunch of guys around him that can also shoot very well, so if any defense is rotating to get to the other guys, he gets the ball quickly with fast passing. In that game Klay was making contested shots as well.

[AtheJ415]

Ironically, none of the plays in that video have Booker in the corner.

That's precisely the point though. He doesn't get the ball in the corner. So how would he score? He's not open in the corner because he's not moving, and so when we get him the ball there he doesn't get shots. The only time that's open is if our guy wins a 1 on 1 matchup and helpside comes off of him, which it will almost never happen if Tucker or Price is on the court and that defender is in helpside--instead they will come off of the weaker shooter.

In the video he has 1 3 from each wing, then a bunch of layups in the open court and secondary break or free throws. Then, he has a stepback deep 2 from the corner, and a postup where he got fouled. So in the entire game, we got him 4 looks that were in the half court. That's bad when he's your best shooter. And coincidentally, all 4 were when he was moving, with 2 off of basic curl screens that were poorly defended. We could and should be doing a lot more to get him shots.

He is in the corner when he plays the three, or when the three is already in the spot the two would be in to initiate the offense. But he can make the corner three. Having guys in the corner isn't a bad thing, as long as they don't sulk in the corner. PJ often is in that corner position, but once a shot goes up, he goes for the rebound. All it seems to be trying to do is space the floor as much as possible. Sometimes with the personnel on the court it doesn't work well. I think we need more plays, with guys coming off more screens and back cuts, similar to what Hornacek did both here in PHX and in Utah, but maybe we don't have the guys to execute it correctly.

Booker passes up shots too, so let's not get silly about this please.

I don't mind spacing the floor with a guy in the corner if we have actual floor spacers, and if it isn't used as frequently as we use it. We use that set so often our offense becomes entirely too predictable, which is why teams figure us out later on in games, because we have little to no offensive diversity.

For all our guard's faults, we put them in a system that almost entirely relies on them beating guys one on one or off the pick and roll and encourages selfishness. We've never been a good passing team under Hornacek with any combination of players. Not under Dragic, not under Bledsoe, not under Thomas, not under Knight, and while all those guys are score first, there are plenty of PGs in this league that are score first but who have good team ball movement, like Atlanta, and GS, and others. We basically choose to run an offense that emulates Houston's, just without an MVP caliber offensive guard running it. It's alarming.

[RunDogGun]

That's precisely the point though. He doesn't get the ball in the corner. So how would he score? He's not open in the corner because he's not moving, and so when we get him the ball there he doesn't get shots. The only time that's open is if our guy wins a 1 on 1 matchup and helpside comes off of him, which it will almost never happen if Tucker or Price is on the court and that defender is in helpside--instead they will come off of the weaker shooter.

In the video he has 1 3 from each wing, then a bunch of layups in the open court and secondary break or free throws. Then, he has a stepback deep 2 from the corner, and a postup where he got fouled. So in the entire game, we got him 4 looks that were in the half court. That's bad when he's your best shooter. And coincidentally, all 4 were when he was moving, with 2 off of basic curl screens that were poorly defended. We could and should be doing a lot more to get him shots.

He is in the corner when he plays the three, or when the three is already in the spot the two would be in to initiate the offense. But he can make the corner three. Having guys in the corner isn't a bad thing, as long as they don't sulk in the corner. PJ often is in that corner position, but once a shot goes up, he goes for the rebound. All it seems to be trying to do is space the floor as much as possible. Sometimes with the personnel on the court it doesn't work well. I think we need more plays, with guys coming off more screens and back cuts, similar to what Hornacek did both here in PHX and in Utah, but maybe we don't have the guys to execute it correctly.

Booker passes up shots too, so let's not get silly about this please.

I don't mind spacing the floor with a guy in the corner if we have actual floor spacers, and if it isn't used as frequently as we use it. We use that set so often our offense becomes entirely too predictable, which is why teams figure us out later on in games, because we have little to no offensive diversity.

For all our guard's faults, we put them in a system that almost entirely relies on them beating guys one on one or off the pick and roll and encourages selfishness. We've never been a good passing team under Hornacek with any combination of players. Not under Dragic, not under Bledsoe, not under Thomas, not under Knight, and while all those guys are score first, there are plenty of PGs in this league that are score first but who have good team ball movement, like Atlanta, and GS, and others. We basically choose to run an offense that emulates Houston's, just without an MVP caliber offensive guard running it. It's alarming.

Maybe some of our guys aren't smart enough to do more.

As for assists, we have often had guys who dribble a bit after the pass before they shoot, and guys that go on shooting slumps, which in both cases bring assists down.

[AtheJ415]

He is in the corner when he plays the three, or when the three is already in the spot the two would be in to initiate the offense. But he can make the corner three. Having guys in the corner isn't a bad thing, as long as they don't sulk in the corner. PJ often is in that corner position, but once a shot goes up, he goes for the rebound. All it seems to be trying to do is space the floor as much as possible. Sometimes with the personnel on the court it doesn't work well. I think we need more plays, with guys coming off more screens and back cuts, similar to what Hornacek did both here in PHX and in Utah, but maybe we don't have the guys to execute it correctly.

Booker passes up shots too, so let's not get silly about this please.

I don't mind spacing the floor with a guy in the corner if we have actual floor spacers, and if it isn't used as frequently as we use it. We use that set so often our offense becomes entirely too predictable, which is why teams figure us out later on in games, because we have little to no offensive diversity.

For all our guard's faults, we put them in a system that almost entirely relies on them beating guys one on one or off the pick and roll and encourages selfishness. We've never been a good passing team under Hornacek with any combination of players. Not under Dragic, not under Bledsoe, not under Thomas, not under Knight, and while all those guys are score first, there are plenty of PGs in this league that are score first but who have good team ball movement, like Atlanta, and GS, and others. We basically choose to run an offense that emulates Houston's, just without an MVP caliber offensive guard running it. It's alarming.

Maybe some of our guys aren't smart enough to do more.

As for assists, we have often had guys who dribble a bit after the pass before they shoot, and guys that go on shooting slumps, which in both cases bring assists down.

Every team has guys who dribble a bit after the pass before shooting, and we have more possessions per game than just about every team not named GS. We should be at worst average, and in reality way up there in assists. You see IT in Boston and they don't have these issues despite him being as bad of a ball stopper as either of our PGs. Goran I think is a smart player. I don't buy that our players are just unusually stupid when we have this problem across 1.5 roster turnovers and have never been good at it. We pass without a purpose more than any team I've ever seen. It's as if there's no shot clock and we're just passing to pass, and then devolve into the pick and roll.

[RunDogGun]

Cool AJ, maybe you should ask to be the coach, since you know more than everyone else.

[AtheJ415]

Cool AJ, maybe you should ask to be the coach, since you know more than everyone else.

If that's the logic you want to comment on here, then why even have a message board? Nobody knows more about basketball than any of our coaches or the GM. Nobody knows more about owning a team than Sarver. If the purpose of the board is to discuss basketball, then let's discuss it, but going this route is pretty nonsensical and childish.

[RunDogGun]

Cool AJ, maybe you should ask to be the coach, since you know more than everyone else.

If that's the logic you want to comment on here, then why even have a message board? Nobody knows more about basketball than any of our coaches or the GM. Nobody knows more about owning a team than Sarver. If the purpose of the board is to discuss basketball, then let's discuss it, but going this route is pretty nonsensical and childish.

You don't give at all, so there isn't a discussion with you. You used a video which didn't have Booker in the corner except one play, and then go on to say that is where his is because of our offense. You went back to cherry picking stats, and when presented with probably the most logical response from GMAT the other day, you not only dismissed his discussion. You claimed to to flat out not read it. Then just a few days later went right back to the agenda you went with, which seemed to be logically debunked. I don't think you want discussion. Some of your comments I and1, so it isn't as though I constantly disagree with you. I just and1 you 20 mins ago.

But I'm somewhat serious. If you know how to fix our problems, take it to the team, and let's see your plan in action.

[bigfoot]

In regards to Booker you have to wonder how much respect rookies really get from veterans. I remember when Jordan made the all-star team as a rookie and the other east all-star players didn't pass him the ball. Do the Suns have vets who believe they are better than a rookie ... they want to earn bigger paychecks and earn more endorsements. Why make that pass to the rookie??

I've always felt most superstars are rookies who were on a losing team (usuallly a top pick), by default get big minutes, are the #1 option, score a ton of points, and then learned defense later. Jordan, Durant, and Griffin come to mind. Trial by fire.

Want to make a superstar ... make the rookie take the majority of shots.

[AtheJ415]

Cool AJ, maybe you should ask to be the coach, since you know more than everyone else.

If that's the logic you want to comment on here, then why even have a message board? Nobody knows more about basketball than any of our coaches or the GM. Nobody knows more about owning a team than Sarver. If the purpose of the board is to discuss basketball, then let's discuss it, but going this route is pretty nonsensical and childish.

You don't give at all, so there isn't a discussion with you. You used a video which didn't have Booker in the corner except one play, and then go on to say that is where his is because of our offense. You went back to cherry picking stats, and when presented with probably the most logical response from GMAT the other day, you not only dismissed his discussion. You claimed to to flat out not read it. Then just a few days later went right back to the agenda you went with, which seemed to be logically debunked. I don't think you want discussion. Some of your comments I and1, so it isn't as though I constantly disagree with you. I just and1 you 20 mins ago.

But I'm somewhat serious. If you know how to fix our problems, take it to the team, and let's see your plan in action.

I didn't use the video in the way you're stating. Somebody else posted the video. Then somebody commented that he needs to get more shots. I responded that part of it is our offense, which sticks him in the corner a TON, thus resulting in long periods with no shots for him. Then, somebody responded to that comment stating none in the video were from the corner. It was only then that I "used the video." So, I won't give on a comment about Booker scoring when my claim is that he doesn't get enough shots because he's in the corner. Do you not see how those are actually aligned and not contradictory? I'm saying he doesn't get enough shots because he's in the corner too much, and then a highlight video of him, which shows the shots he actually takes and scores on, are of him not in the corner. That's literally, EXACTLY my point. The only way that video would show otherwise is if it wasn't a highlight video, but a coach's video. Nobody has a highlight of them not getting the basketball. The few times when he is shooting and getting scoring ops, no surprise, he's out of the corner and moving.

I'm not going to get into a discussion from weeks ago regarding somebody else.

I don't know how to fix our problems. I don't believe I'm the person to do it. I don't believe Hornacek can fix our problems either, because he hasn't shown real improvement from the beginning of each season to the end in key areas for all 3 years that he's been here. My hope is we hire somebody who can fix our problems.

[kennydorglas]

Last 4 games

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/possessions/?CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*PHX&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=TOUCHES&dir=1&LastNGames=4

Knight with a WHOOPING 92 touches per game, almost 7 minutes per game only by himself. This is too much

[Frank Lee]

....... My hope is we hire somebody who can fix our problems.

um.... you mean... like a GM

[letsgosuns]

In regards to Booker you have to wonder how much respect rookies really get from veterans. I remember when Jordan made the all-star team as a rookie and the other east all-star players didn't pass him the ball. Do the Suns have vets who believe they are better than a rookie ... they want to earn bigger paychecks and earn more endorsements. Why make that pass to the rookie??

I've always felt most superstars are rookies who were on a losing team (usuallly a top pick), by default get big minutes, are the #1 option, score a ton of points, and then learned defense later. Jordan, Durant, and Griffin come to mind. Trial by fire.

Want to make a superstar ... make the rookie take the majority of shots.

I was thinking about this yesterday as well. There was a play in the game against the Kings during the first half where Warren had the ball and would not pass it to Knight. It looked like Knight was calling for the ball and Warren would not look at him. Then Warren got double teamed and instead of passing to Knight which looked like the easiest pass, he threw a cross court pass to Booker who had to jump to get it. Then Warren ran over to Booker and did a two man game with him and Warren took a shot. He missed it but it was interesting that Warren did not want to give the ball to Knight. Cannot say I blame him. Everybody that watches Suns games knows Knight is not a passing point guard.

[In Len We Trust]

I don't understand why nobody paid attention to how bad our defense was last year.

Why is Len not getting more minutes in a game like that?