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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#301 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:44 am

Wilber85 wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
Wilber85 wrote:Ya'll want no police? If I were the police I would stop going on calls.

Without police the crime rate will sky rocket. Just wait


That's a big jump you made by saying people don't want police. People want reform. For example, in my city, 43% of the general fund goes toward the police department. That is a very large percentage dedicated to this public service. Very few dollars go to address the issues of homelessness, mental health, job education programs, etc that would go towards helping reduce crime. Obviously nobody wants crime. But the system we have now has major problems that need to be reformed. So politicians need to be willing to take a hard look at it instead of just stumping for a vote by saying "I'm tough on crime".


Yeah ! Less money, less training = more crime, more deaths

If I am a Police Officer I would ignore calls now! The way they are treated is beyond belief. Reform! Let's sent a counselor into a domestic violence call! Yeah, that is a smart call.

Look at the cities defunding police. All democratic ran cities with the most police brutality cases

Hate to say it, but everyone wants BIDEN. This is giving Trump the edge with all the BS going on.

I'm not sure this is true.

Do you know how much training police officers get? Not just in the academy but ongoing training. They barely get training now. The problem is where the police funding is going to because clearly it's not training
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#302 » by Wilber85 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:46 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Wilber85 wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
That's a big jump you made by saying people don't want police. People want reform. For example, in my city, 43% of the general fund goes toward the police department. That is a very large percentage dedicated to this public service. Very few dollars go to address the issues of homelessness, mental health, job education programs, etc that would go towards helping reduce crime. Obviously nobody wants crime. But the system we have now has major problems that need to be reformed. So politicians need to be willing to take a hard look at it instead of just stumping for a vote by saying "I'm tough on crime".


Yeah ! Less money, less training = more crime, more deaths

If I am a Police Officer I would ignore calls now! The way they are treated is beyond belief. Reform! Let's sent a counselor into a domestic violence call! Yeah, that is a smart call.

Look at the cities defunding police. All democratic ran cities with the most police brutality cases

Hate to say it, but everyone wants BIDEN. This is giving Trump the edge with all the BS going on.

I'm not sure this is true.

Do you know how much training police officers get? Not just in the academy but ongoing training.


Yes I do.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#303 » by MrMiyagi » Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:51 am

Wilber85 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Wilber85 wrote:
Yeah ! Less money, less training = more crime, more deaths

If I am a Police Officer I would ignore calls now! The way they are treated is beyond belief. Reform! Let's sent a counselor into a domestic violence call! Yeah, that is a smart call.

Look at the cities defunding police. All democratic ran cities with the most police brutality cases

Hate to say it, but everyone wants BIDEN. This is giving Trump the edge with all the BS going on.

I'm not sure this is true.

Do you know how much training police officers get? Not just in the academy but ongoing training.


Yes I do.

Please share.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#304 » by bigfoot » Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:52 am

cberry78 wrote:
Read on Twitter


This is kind of stuff where Balmer needs to put his money where his mouth is. For example, the revenue of the NBA is roughly $9B and for the NFL is $14B. Those numbers put them on equal footing with Fortune 500 companies. To think that the owners would ignore the player's concerns when that level of money is on the line is well ... fantasy.

Players from each league could insist that 10% of revenue be donated to a super PAC that works to support political candidates of either party whose platforms are to improve racial justice, criminal justice reform, and police reform. Now you are talking 10x Koch Brother type spending on campaigns. It's a sacrifice by both the players and owners but if you want to make change this is how it is done in the U.S. I would imagine the donations made by the general public to a PAC like this would be huge, especially with the league's ability to self-advertise on the major networks.

This would make one of the two things happen ... 1) those dollars would be used to support said candidates and change would eventually happen or 2) super PACs would be found unconstitutional and corporations would not be allowed to make political donations anymore.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#305 » by MrMiyagi » Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:56 am

bigfoot wrote:
cberry78 wrote:
Read on Twitter


This is kind of stuff where Balmer needs to put his money where his mouth is. For example, the revenue of the NBA is roughly $9B and for the NFL is $14B. Those numbers put them on equal footing with Fortune 500 companies. To think that the owners would ignore the player's concerns when that level of money is on the line is well ... fantasy.

Players from each league could insist that 10% of revenue be donated to a super PAC that works to support political candidates of either party whose platforms are to improve racial justice, criminal justice reform, and police reform. Now you are talking 10x Koch Brother type spending on campaigns. It's a sacrifice by both the players and owners but if you want to make change this is how it is done in the U.S. I would imagine the donations made by the general public to a PAC like this would be huge, especially with the league's ability to self-advertise on the major networks.

This would make one of the two things happen ... 1) those dollars would be used to support said candidates and change would eventually happen or 2) super PACs would be found unconstitutional and corporations would not be allowed to make political donations anymore.

Win-win.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#306 » by Wilber85 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:56 am

MrMiyagi wrote:
Wilber85 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:I'm not sure this is true.

Do you know how much training police officers get? Not just in the academy but ongoing training.


Yes I do.

Please share.


They go through training every year, etc. If they experience any type of event that will mentally disturb them, they go through counseling, etc. I think there needs to be more training, and better! That means more money to pay for training.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#307 » by MrMiyagi » Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:58 am

Wilber85 wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
Wilber85 wrote:
Yes I do.

Please share.


They go through training every year, etc. If they experience any type of event that will mentally disturb them, they go through counseling, etc. I think there needs to be more training, and better! That means more money to pay for training.

That isn't any sort of quantitative amounts. So you lied?
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#308 » by Wilber85 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:58 am

MrMiyagi wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
cberry78 wrote:
Read on Twitter


This is kind of stuff where Balmer needs to put his money where his mouth is. For example, the revenue of the NBA is roughly $9B and for the NFL is $14B. Those numbers put them on equal footing with Fortune 500 companies. To think that the owners would ignore the player's concerns when that level of money is on the line is well ... fantasy.

Players from each league could insist that 10% of revenue be donated to a super PAC that works to support political candidates of either party whose platforms are to improve racial justice, criminal justice reform, and police reform. Now you are talking 10x Koch Brother type spending on campaigns. It's a sacrifice by both the players and owners but if you want to make change this is how it is done in the U.S. I would imagine the donations made by the general public to a PAC like this would be huge, especially with the league's ability to self-advertise on the major networks.

This would make one of the two things happen ... 1) those dollars would be used to support said candidates and change would eventually happen or 2) super PACs would be found unconstitutional and corporations would not be allowed to make political donations anymore.

Win-win.


These NBA players are not going to do anything. They are just about the image and posting things.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#309 » by Wilber85 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:59 am

MrMiyagi wrote:
Wilber85 wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:Please share.


They go through training every year, etc. If they experience any type of event that will mentally disturb them, they go through counseling, etc. I think there needs to be more training, and better! That means more money to pay for training.

That isn't any sort of quantitative amounts. So you lied?


What did I lie about?

They go through multiple trainings quarterly. Physical, Mental, Written.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#310 » by cberry78 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:04 am

Wilber85 wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
Wilber85 wrote:
They go through training every year, etc. If they experience any type of event that will mentally disturb them, they go through counseling, etc. I think there needs to be more training, and better! That means more money to pay for training.

That isn't any sort of quantitative amounts. So you lied?


What did I lie about?

They go through multiple trainings quarterly. Physical, Mental, Written.

And if they go to said counseling they run the very high risk of being placed on desk duty, placed on administrative leave, or even relieved of duty. There are more reasons for them NOT to do what is normal in our society than for them to seek the appropriate help they need.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#311 » by MrMiyagi » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:04 am

Wilber85 wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
Wilber85 wrote:
They go through training every year, etc. If they experience any type of event that will mentally disturb them, they go through counseling, etc. I think there needs to be more training, and better! That means more money to pay for training.

That isn't any sort of quantitative amounts. So you lied?


What did I lie about?

They go through multiple trainings quarterly. Physical, Mental, Written.

You said you knew how much training they receive. Give the hard numbers. Basic Google search linked me here: https://www.azdps.gov/organization/asd/alea

Arizona Law Enforcement Academy says new recruits are given a 585-hour basic police curriculum. That's about 73 8-hour days. Less than 3 months. Would you trust a surgeon to operate on you or a lawyer to represent you after 73 days of learning?

So, you knew that, right? You also have the hard number of hours each quarter they get?
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#312 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:08 am

Wilber85 wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
Wilber85 wrote:
Yes I do.

Please share.


They go through training every year, etc. If they experience any type of event that will mentally disturb them, they go through counseling, etc. I think there needs to be more training, and better! That means more money to pay for training.

That doesn't actually say how much training they get or that the funding they are getting now is going towards that.

To become an officer, you need on average just under 700hrs of basic training. To become a barber, on average you need 1300hrs of training. FOr that matter, just doing a quick google search, police in New Hampshire get 8 hrs of ongoing training a year, EIGHT HOURS. I agree that taking money away from police is not the right idea. The point I was making is that right now the money is barely going towards training now. The funds they do have shouldn't be going towards militarising the police force, it shouldn't go towards riot training, it should be going towards things like deescalation training, a lot more scenario training and recruiting better people for the job.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#313 » by Revived » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:21 am

Read on Twitter
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#314 » by Wilber85 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:21 am

Good Story. Did you also know Phoenix PD killed 5 unarmed white, 5 unarmed black, 8 unarmed Hispanic, and 1 unarmed asian since 2013. People need to be consistent and realize it happens to every race, but they push an agenda based on the media.

Question to you guys:

Police were called to the house via 911 by a lady who stated the guy wasn't supposed to be there, was getting car, kids, etc. They clarified he had a warrant and was a sex offender.

He wrested and fought cops, got tased and it didn't work, aggressively walked to door, and got in and reached for something, and had a knife.

I do blame both sides, and not sure why people cant see that. Cops should never have let him get to truck, but they tried. And he should never have opened the door and reach down. That is the riskiest thing you can do after fighting cops
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#315 » by MrMiyagi » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:28 am

Wilber85 wrote:Good Story. Did you also know Phoenix PD killed 5 unarmed white, 5 unarmed black, 8 unarmed Hispanic, and 1 unarmed asian since 2013. People need to be consistent and realize it happens to every race, but they push an agenda based on the media.

Question to you guys:

Police were called to the house via 911 by a lady who stated the guy wasn't supposed to be there, was getting car, kids, etc. They clarified he had a warrant and was a sex offender.

He wrested and fought cops, got tased and it didn't work, aggressively walked to door, and got in and reached for something, and had a knife.

I do blame both sides, and not sure why people cant see that. Cops should never have let him get to truck, but they tried. And he should never have opened the door and reach down. That is the riskiest thing you can do after fighting cops

Who are you even talking to, man?
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#316 » by bigfoot » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:31 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Wilber85 wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:Please share.


They go through training every year, etc. If they experience any type of event that will mentally disturb them, they go through counseling, etc. I think there needs to be more training, and better! That means more money to pay for training.

That doesn't actually say how much training they get or that the funding they are getting now is going towards that.

To become an officer, you need on average just under 700hrs of basic training. To become a barber, on average you need 1300hrs of training. FOr that matter, just doing a quick google search, police in New Hampshire get 8 hrs of ongoing training a year, EIGHT HOURS. I agree that taking money away from police is not the right idea. The point I was making is that right now the money is barely going towards training now. The funds they do have shouldn't be going towards militarising the police force, it shouldn't go towards riot training, it should be going towards things like deescalation training, a lot more scenario training and recruiting better people for the job.


And reform can be done in so many different ways.

For example, a department that deals with traffic accidents and fender benders shouldn't have a highly paid, gun-carrying police officer called to scene. Or reinstitute cameras for speeding and red-light running. I'm sure folks who don't want to defund the police would be up in arms about traffic cameras, but this is the type of changes that allow police to do the real job and real training for dealing with serious crimes. Also, police officers are at the highest risk of injury/fatalities during a traffic stop. Why wouldn't we substitute their lives for the inconvenience of traffic/speeding cameras?

These are just two simple examples of why police reform needs to be looked at hard. There have to be dozens and dozens of areas to improve officer and citizen safety.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#317 » by cberry78 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:38 am

Wilber85 wrote:Good Story. Did you also know Phoenix PD killed 5 unarmed white, 5 unarmed black, 8 unarmed Hispanic, and 1 unarmed asian since 2013. People need to be consistent and realize it happens to every race, but they push an agenda based on the media.

Question to you guys:

Police were called to the house via 911 by a lady who stated the guy wasn't supposed to be there, was getting car, kids, etc. They clarified he had a warrant and was a sex offender.

He wrested and fought cops, got tased and it didn't work, aggressively walked to door, and got in and reached for something, and had a knife.

I do blame both sides, and not sure why people cant see that. Cops should never have let him get to truck, but they tried. And he should never have opened the door and reach down. That is the riskiest thing you can do after fighting cops

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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#318 » by cberry78 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:50 am

Read on Twitter
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#319 » by WeekapaugGroove » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:50 am

cberry78 wrote:
Wilber85 wrote:Good Story. Did you also know Phoenix PD killed 5 unarmed white, 5 unarmed black, 8 unarmed Hispanic, and 1 unarmed asian since 2013. People need to be consistent and realize it happens to every race, but they push an agenda based on the media.

Question to you guys:

Police were called to the house via 911 by a lady who stated the guy wasn't supposed to be there, was getting car, kids, etc. They clarified he had a warrant and was a sex offender.

He wrested and fought cops, got tased and it didn't work, aggressively walked to door, and got in and reached for something, and had a knife.

I do blame both sides, and not sure why people cant see that. Cops should never have let him get to truck, but they tried. And he should never have opened the door and reach down. That is the riskiest thing you can do after fighting cops

Image
Yeah I think a good starting point for our country would be take a deep look at why our cops shoot so many more people than other developed countries. What are we doing differently? Hiring practices, training, rules of engagement are all areas that should be looked at.

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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#320 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:51 am

Wilber85 wrote:Good Story. Did you also know Phoenix PD killed 5 unarmed white, 5 unarmed black, 8 unarmed Hispanic, and 1 unarmed asian since 2013. People need to be consistent and realize it happens to every race, but they push an agenda based on the media.

Question to you guys:

Police were called to the house via 911 by a lady who stated the guy wasn't supposed to be there, was getting car, kids, etc. They clarified he had a warrant and was a sex offender.

He wrested and fought cops, got tased and it didn't work, aggressively walked to door, and got in and reached for something, and had a knife.

I do blame both sides, and not sure why people cant see that. Cops should never have let him get to truck, but they tried. And he should never have opened the door and reach down. That is the riskiest thing you can do after fighting cops

I'm not saying you're necessarily pushing this All Lives Matter narrative (maybe you are, I dunno) but I really don't understand this and the All Lives Matter mindset. Isn't what BLM fighting for something where EVERYONE benefits? Don't we all want better policing, eliminating racial injustice and justice for wrongful killings at the hands of police?

Who is speaking up for that?

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