Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez
Sunsss wrote:If he averages 17-18ppg with good efficiency, a year from now TJ will be getting a similar deal Gobert and Adams got.
MrMiyagi wrote:Lob to DA for the win
Sunsss wrote:If he averages 17-18ppg with good efficiency, a year from now TJ will be getting a similar deal Gobert and Adams got.
NavLDO wrote:Not all together true. Last year, he was fine until Mar/Apr (percentage-wise). But even Mar, it was really only a handful of games that really brought his average down. And it's really thanks to him thinking he was a stretch 4/5.
If Watson set some limits, like, if he sees Len shooting anything over 12Ft, he gets pulled. He starts shooting a bunch of hooks, he gets pulled. Get the 'offense' out of his head, and have him concentrate on Defense, or Offensive put-backs--get the NASTY back in him. That's what he really needs, IMO. I'd much rather he be a 9/14 guy with a .550 fg%, than a 14/9 guy with a .380 fg%. Get him down low and keep him there. He knows how to do this; he just needs to get back to it. If he wants to get paid, quit the jump shots.
I'm not sure if this will work, but what's going on now certainly isn't. He used to be able to go toe-to-toe with just about any Center in the league. Sure, he had foul problems, but he also got quite a few Blks back then as well...
AtheJ415 wrote:We should keep Len unless he gets an ungodly offer, which I don't think he will. Something between 10 and 13 million will probably be the result. His upside is still there. Keep him and draft a C and still go after a better guy when the time comes (like Cousins). Len is a good teammate who I don't think will complain about sitting behind a clearly better player. That's just my opinion in all of this. Mobile 7 footers with his athleticism don't grow on trees and with the pace we want to play there simply aren't that many centers who can keep up. He can, which doesn't show in the numbers but has a lot of value imo, and if we end up drafting somebody (say Bolden or Rabb or Bam) with our pick this year, Len doesn't necessarily conflict with them. We need 2 mobile, athletic centers to play the style that suits the rest of our team, and absent getting somebody like Cousins our offense is going to run through Warren and Booker in the future, meaning our centers will have to be okay with not getting a lot of shots. Len is a good fit, even if his numbers never catch up with his skill set and even if he ends up as a backup/spot starter.
MrMiyagi wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:We should keep Len unless he gets an ungodly offer, which I don't think he will. Something between 10 and 13 million will probably be the result. His upside is still there. Keep him and draft a C and still go after a better guy when the time comes (like Cousins). Len is a good teammate who I don't think will complain about sitting behind a clearly better player. That's just my opinion in all of this. Mobile 7 footers with his athleticism don't grow on trees and with the pace we want to play there simply aren't that many centers who can keep up. He can, which doesn't show in the numbers but has a lot of value imo, and if we end up drafting somebody (say Bolden or Rabb or Bam) with our pick this year, Len doesn't necessarily conflict with them. We need 2 mobile, athletic centers to play the style that suits the rest of our team, and absent getting somebody like Cousins our offense is going to run through Warren and Booker in the future, meaning our centers will have to be okay with not getting a lot of shots. Len is a good fit, even if his numbers never catch up with his skill set and even if he ends up as a backup/spot starter.
I say pass on that. I think we can find another center for much cheaper.
GetYourPHX wrote:Here's my attempt at a Len trade.
Phoenix out - Alex Len, Miami 2018 first
Phoenix In - Meyers Leonard, Ja
Blazers out - Leonard, 2017 first
Blazers in - Alex Len
Philly out - Ja
Philly in - POR 2017 1st, Miami 2018 first
Never going to happen but I think the values/wants/needs line up pretty well.
AtheJ415 wrote:MrMiyagi wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:We should keep Len unless he gets an ungodly offer, which I don't think he will. Something between 10 and 13 million will probably be the result. His upside is still there. Keep him and draft a C and still go after a better guy when the time comes (like Cousins). Len is a good teammate who I don't think will complain about sitting behind a clearly better player. That's just my opinion in all of this. Mobile 7 footers with his athleticism don't grow on trees and with the pace we want to play there simply aren't that many centers who can keep up. He can, which doesn't show in the numbers but has a lot of value imo, and if we end up drafting somebody (say Bolden or Rabb or Bam) with our pick this year, Len doesn't necessarily conflict with them. We need 2 mobile, athletic centers to play the style that suits the rest of our team, and absent getting somebody like Cousins our offense is going to run through Warren and Booker in the future, meaning our centers will have to be okay with not getting a lot of shots. Len is a good fit, even if his numbers never catch up with his skill set and even if he ends up as a backup/spot starter.
I say pass on that. I think we can find another center for much cheaper.
Like who? I mean, I'm not on board with signing an older vet, and even then guys like Mozgov and Dieng are getting 16 mil each. Plumlee is getting over 12.
GetYourPHX wrote:Here's my attempt at a Len trade.
Phoenix out - Alex Len, Miami 2018 first
Phoenix In - Meyers Leonard, Ja
Blazers out - Leonard, 2017 first
Blazers in - Alex Len
Philly out - Ja
Philly in - POR 2017 1st, Miami 2018 first
Never going to happen but I think the values/wants/needs line up pretty well.
AtheJ415 wrote:And I'll go ahead and go on record. If we get the first pick we should take Fultz. Bledsoe is older than him enough where that would be okay. The fact that he can play some 2 due to his size is a good thing. I know some love Frank but I'd go Fultz and trade Knight at that point to try to get back in and get a center later on.
MrMiyagi wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:MrMiyagi wrote:I say pass on that. I think we can find another center for much cheaper.
Like who? I mean, I'm not on board with signing an older vet, and even then guys like Mozgov and Dieng are getting 16 mil each. Plumlee is getting over 12.
Anyone else at this point. Len at double-digit millions is a crime against humanity.
I'd even take Plumdog back: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&hint=Miles+Plumlee&player_id1_select=Miles+Plumlee&player_id1=plumlmi01&hint=Alex+Len&player_id2_select=Alex+Len&player_id2=lenal01
EDIT: **** ME TWICE. HE'S MAKING $12.5 MILLION?!?!?! **** it. Play with 5 point guards. I'm done with NBA Centers.
EDIT 2: Bring back Archie Goodwin. He'll be our center of the future. I mean, **** seriously? MILES **** PLUMLEE IS MAKING $12.5 MILLION DOLLARS?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS SPORT?!
lilfishi22 wrote:NavLDO wrote:Not all together true. Last year, he was fine until Mar/Apr (percentage-wise). But even Mar, it was really only a handful of games that really brought his average down. And it's really thanks to him thinking he was a stretch 4/5.
If Watson set some limits, like, if he sees Len shooting anything over 12Ft, he gets pulled. He starts shooting a bunch of hooks, he gets pulled. Get the 'offense' out of his head, and have him concentrate on Defense, or Offensive put-backs--get the NASTY back in him. That's what he really needs, IMO. I'd much rather he be a 9/14 guy with a .550 fg%, than a 14/9 guy with a .380 fg%. Get him down low and keep him there. He knows how to do this; he just needs to get back to it. If he wants to get paid, quit the jump shots.
I'm not sure if this will work, but what's going on now certainly isn't. He used to be able to go toe-to-toe with just about any Center in the league. Sure, he had foul problems, but he also got quite a few Blks back then as well...
He was still shooting well below .50fg% even before March/April. He was at .46fg% for the season prior to the last two months which was actually when he was supposedly having his best rebounding and scoring months in his career (13/10 post All-star).
GetYourPHX wrote:Here's my attempt at a Len trade.
Phoenix out - Alex Len, Miami 2018 first
Phoenix In - Meyers Leonard, Ja
Blazers out - Leonard, 2017 first
Blazers in - Alex Len
Philly out - Ja
Philly in - POR 2017 1st, Miami 2018 first
Never going to happen but I think the values/wants/needs line up pretty well.
NavLDO wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:NavLDO wrote:Not all together true. Last year, he was fine until Mar/Apr (percentage-wise). But even Mar, it was really only a handful of games that really brought his average down. And it's really thanks to him thinking he was a stretch 4/5.
If Watson set some limits, like, if he sees Len shooting anything over 12Ft, he gets pulled. He starts shooting a bunch of hooks, he gets pulled. Get the 'offense' out of his head, and have him concentrate on Defense, or Offensive put-backs--get the NASTY back in him. That's what he really needs, IMO. I'd much rather he be a 9/14 guy with a .550 fg%, than a 14/9 guy with a .380 fg%. Get him down low and keep him there. He knows how to do this; he just needs to get back to it. If he wants to get paid, quit the jump shots.
I'm not sure if this will work, but what's going on now certainly isn't. He used to be able to go toe-to-toe with just about any Center in the league. Sure, he had foul problems, but he also got quite a few Blks back then as well...
He was still shooting well below .50fg% even before March/April. He was at .46fg% for the season prior to the last two months which was actually when he was supposedly having his best rebounding and scoring months in his career (13/10 post All-star).
True, but it wasn't nearly as bad as Mar/Apr, which were abysmal. that's all I'm saying, but then again, last night he shot 31% again,o it appears he's NOT going to be shooting much, if any, better this year. So if he keeps this up, there's not way he even sniffs 8 figures. I don't care who's getting what right now, none of those centers are shooting anywhere near as abysmally as Len is, and while he had 3 blocks 2 games ago, last nigh? Zilch.
So he's not really providing rim protection (please tell me if I'm wrong here), he's not rebounding all that well, we've established he's not shooting worth a darn, so what the heck IS he providing that is worth $10M (not directed at you lilfishi-in general)
I've been on Len's side all summer and through preseason, but now? It's clear he has issues that he's not going to resolve here. He needs to go somewhere else, and if I'm his agent, I'm begging McD to make a trade so he has an opportunity somewhere else to get the help he needs before his first contract is up, because he's NOT getting what he needs here. Some other coach might actually be able to get him back to where he was in seasons 1 and 2, when he at least looked somewhat decent.
Saberestar wrote:MrMiyagi wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:
Like who? I mean, I'm not on board with signing an older vet, and even then guys like Mozgov and Dieng are getting 16 mil each. Plumlee is getting over 12.
Anyone else at this point. Len at double-digit millions is a crime against humanity.
I'd even take Plumdog back: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&hint=Miles+Plumlee&player_id1_select=Miles+Plumlee&player_id1=plumlmi01&hint=Alex+Len&player_id2_select=Alex+Len&player_id2=lenal01
EDIT: **** ME TWICE. HE'S MAKING $12.5 MILLION?!?!?! **** it. Play with 5 point guards. I'm done with NBA Centers.
EDIT 2: Bring back Archie Goodwin. He'll be our center of the future. I mean, **** seriously? MILES **** PLUMLEE IS MAKING $12.5 MILLION DOLLARS?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS SPORT?!
Yeah, I agree with you. It's getting old to pay big time money to 7 footers to begin the first 5 minutes of each half and after that staying on the bench watching the game with faster and more agile players out there. They are useless with the game on the line a ton of times.
Look at the Cavs and the GSW rosters, they are the favorites and they are not paying big money for any 7 footer.
It's better in the current NBA to spend money on other type of players, only a few of those pure C worth the overall effort.
Hopefully Chriss and Bender develop in our frontcourt of the future and we just need Len (or whoever tall and strong) to play some minutes per game behind them.
cosmofizzo wrote:NavLDO wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:
He was still shooting well below .50fg% even before March/April. He was at .46fg% for the season prior to the last two months which was actually when he was supposedly having his best rebounding and scoring months in his career (13/10 post All-star).
True, but it wasn't nearly as bad as Mar/Apr, which were abysmal. that's all I'm saying, but then again, last night he shot 31% again,o it appears he's NOT going to be shooting much, if any, better this year. So if he keeps this up, there's not way he even sniffs 8 figures. I don't care who's getting what right now, none of those centers are shooting anywhere near as abysmally as Len is, and while he had 3 blocks 2 games ago, last nigh? Zilch.
So he's not really providing rim protection (please tell me if I'm wrong here), he's not rebounding all that well, we've established he's not shooting worth a darn, so what the heck IS he providing that is worth $10M (not directed at you lilfishi-in general)
I've been on Len's side all summer and through preseason, but now? It's clear he has issues that he's not going to resolve here. He needs to go somewhere else, and if I'm his agent, I'm begging McD to make a trade so he has an opportunity somewhere else to get the help he needs before his first contract is up, because he's NOT getting what he needs here. Some other coach might actually be able to get him back to where he was in seasons 1 and 2, when he at least looked somewhat decent.
I think this analysis is way off base. If we wanted Alex to maximize his percentage, we'd do what other teams do with their bigs - not let them take any shot further than 6 feet from the hoop. We are clearly encouraging Alex to continue to shoot, which means he must make it in practice. He stops taking the J, that FG% goes back to 50%. And all we gotta do is ask.