Game 1: Phoenix Suns @ LA Clippers | Wednesday, 23 Oct | 7:00PM

[King4Day]

Tough win.
It's clear this team will need a lot of time to gel. Too many talented players to figure out their roles.
Plumlee isn't great but already looks so much more competent than Eubanks.
Morris looked good off the bench.
Jones, so far, seemed to really just bring the ball up so the big 3 can get setup. He took off a bit more in the 4th.
Booker deferred a lot. Maybe an Olympic hangover or he simply is trying to help the team gel.

I expect the team to have significant growing pains this season but there was promise in what I saw tonight.

[bwgood77]

I'll give the guys the benefit of the doubt for now as they're trying to figure out how to play with a PG.

Tyus and Monte were both great IMO. Zero turnovers between the two, these guys know how to take care of the basketball. Since we're likely going to lose a lot of rebound battles, we need to make up the difference by 'creating possessions' through committing fewer turnovers than our opponents.

Moving forward, hopefully more offense through our PGs setting it up and less hero ball.

Phycial teams still frustrate our suns it seems, and the clippers aren't even that 'big', but were bullying us on the glass.

The same problems from last season like not taking care of the ball and lack of rebounding and poor defense all showed itself tonight.

I'm sure as we run the offense from the point guards we can cut down on turnovers but the defense and rebounding are much more of a concern for me, Oso grabbed 8 rebounds in limited minutes so maybe giving him more minutes would help?

Oso looked great, but we does kind of kill our spacing which makes him difficult to play in a two big line-up. Maybe he can help extend that push shot to the three point line so he can play as our primary backup PF.

Only half kidding.

If Oso keeps playing like this and improving, I wouldn't mind him playing C. He seemed to give more resistance at the rim than the others, is a more energetic rebounder, and more athletic than our other Cs. I think we could play faster too. He's 6'11, 235. He's about the size of Amare, a little taller, a little slimmer. He's taller than a guy like Bam.

I know I'm putting him in the same sentence with great players, and I don't expect him to be that, but just an energetic rebounder, pretty good rim deterrent, more active and athletic...I would be interested to see what he looked like at C with our starters.

[bwgood77]

I do not know if it is Bud or Tyus, but I can understand why Tyus never turns it over. He seems to dribble the ball up the court hand it off to KD, Book or Nurk and let them create the offense.

This guy is no CP3 or Nash. I can see why he did not demand big bucks on the open market.

The sooner the point guard position is turned over to Gillespie the better.

Why did we cut Frank?

You don't get an assist for handing the ball off and letting someone create their own offense. He's a very good PG. I really like Gillespie, but Jones is miles better.

The problem is these guys like to iso and handle so it takes away the effectiveness. Barkley did the same to KJ a bit...who ran the offense great setting guys up but when Barkley got there when he got the ball he would slow it down back to the basket for some iso.

He brought other things that helped, but KJ didn't look as good then.

It's kind of like when Nash went to play with Kobe. He was turned into a spot up shooter.

[Saberestar]

The same problems from last season like not taking care of the ball and lack of rebounding and poor defense all showed itself tonight.

I'm sure as we run the offense from the point guards we can cut down on turnovers but the defense and rebounding are much more of a concern for me, Oso grabbed 8 rebounds in limited minutes so maybe giving him more minutes would help?

Oso looked great, but we does kind of kill our spacing which makes him difficult to play in a two big line-up. Maybe he can help extend that push shot to the three point line so he can play as our primary backup PF.

Only half kidding.

If Oso keeps playing like this and improving, I wouldn't mind him playing C. He seemed to give more resistance at the rim than the others, is a more energetic rebounder, and more athletic than our other Cs. I think we could play faster too. He's 6'11, 235. He's about the size of Amare, a little taller, a little slimmer. He's taller than a guy like Bam.

I know I'm putting him in the same sentence with great players, and I don't expect him to be that, but just an energetic rebounder, pretty good rim deterrent, more active and athletic...I would be interested to see what he looked like at C with our starters.

Oso is 6'9.5 without shoes but the biggest problem for him is that he has a 6'11 wingspan, that's why he looks somewhat "small" out there as a C.

[bwgood77]

Oso looked great, but we does kind of kill our spacing which makes him difficult to play in a two big line-up. Maybe he can help extend that push shot to the three point line so he can play as our primary backup PF.

Only half kidding.

If Oso keeps playing like this and improving, I wouldn't mind him playing C. He seemed to give more resistance at the rim than the others, is a more energetic rebounder, and more athletic than our other Cs. I think we could play faster too. He's 6'11, 235. He's about the size of Amare, a little taller, a little slimmer. He's taller than a guy like Bam.

I know I'm putting him in the same sentence with great players, and I don't expect him to be that, but just an energetic rebounder, pretty good rim deterrent, more active and athletic...I would be interested to see what he looked like at C with our starters.

Oso is 6'9.5 without shoes but the biggest problem for him is that he has a 6'11 wingspan, that's why he looks somewhat "small" out there as a C.

Well I guess I don't know everyone's heights with and without shoes. I've have also seen him listed at 7ft. I know he's not that tall though. So his wingspan is the same as Plumlee..a little shorter than Nurkic, though that is negated by his ability to jump.

Nurkic just doesn't look very good. He just doesn't seem like he fits for what we need. I don't know that we have alternatives/options to trade, so I don't know the answer. Playing Oso at C isn't ideal, but neither is playing our other Cs.

[Funky Tut]

I'll take the dub, but we still seem like a collection of good basketball players without a flow. I will remain optimistic, however. I'm not concerned that LAC didn't have Kawhi because they are still a good, well-coached team, and they played hard.

[Saberestar]

If Oso keeps playing like this and improving, I wouldn't mind him playing C. He seemed to give more resistance at the rim than the others, is a more energetic rebounder, and more athletic than our other Cs. I think we could play faster too. He's 6'11, 235. He's about the size of Amare, a little taller, a little slimmer. He's taller than a guy like Bam.

I know I'm putting him in the same sentence with great players, and I don't expect him to be that, but just an energetic rebounder, pretty good rim deterrent, more active and athletic...I would be interested to see what he looked like at C with our starters.

Oso is 6'9.5 without shoes but the biggest problem for him is that he has a 6'11 wingspan, that's why he looks somewhat "small" out there as a C.

Well I guess I don't know everyone's heights with and without shoes. I've have also seen him listed at 7ft. I know he's not that tall though. So his wingspan is the same as Plumlee..a little shorter than Nurkic, though that is negated by his ability to jump.

Nurkic just doesn't look very good. He just doesn't seem like he fits for what we need. I don't know that we have alternatives/options to trade, so I don't know the answer. Playing Oso at C isn't ideal, but neither is playing our other Cs.

Yeah, I like Oso and I think he is a nice option as a backup C but my comment was more about comparing him with Amare or Bam because he has similar or slightly more height than them who played/play successfully at C.

Amare has 7'1/7'2 wingspan and Bam has a 7'3 wingspan...that's a big difference between them and Oso.

But yeah, he is big enough to play the C position, he just needs a few more pounds. Not ideal size but enough on most nights.

[bigfoot]

Wonder if Ishbia is already making plans for something similar to "The Wall" at the clippers new arena. Apparently those seats are only available for Clippers fans and can not be resold on websites

[ChuckS]

It is alleged to be a slight misquote but Mark Twain once said: "The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated". Its probably already apparent, but I'm really into trite quotes. But that is what I thought of during this game and thread. I've always believed: "It ain't over 'till the fat lady sings". I thought the hysteria over the horrible variety of KD's 7 turnovers, and his 36 years, early and even after the game, was a bit excessive, although I did see him get eight in another game. I think Harden's eight is further evidence of what happens sometimes when you have to ISO or lose. And this can fairly be considered the ranting of a hopeless fanatical fan, but I will be comforted by the fact that Coach Bud knows much more than I do, and almost as much as the big three detractors, and played his 36 year old 44 minutes in the game.

I think Kevin's 16 year average of 3.2 turnovers per (2.7 in the functional GS offense) suggests that such occurrences as in this game are aberrations. I think KD and Beal, with some clutch free throw makes by Nurkic won this game. I prefer to put the failures in context. The bad: 7 turnovers and 0 assists compared to career averages of 3.2 and 4.4. The good: 12 point 4th quarter (IMO most influential in tying the game), most team points 25 at 47/40/78%, equaled career average of 7 rebounds, 1.7 less FG attempts (17) than career average so hardly more ball dominant, 3 steals, one block, and most importantly awesome defense on Harden.

I'll close by saying I consider Beal equally responsible for winning this game. He had 24 points, 7 of the 13 in the OT (with the other six consisting of 4 Nurkic and 2 Durant free throws).

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Just ended watching this first game and...wow...my heart had some tough moments in this one and it was just the **** first game.

Well, first and foremost A WIN ON THE ROAD. I love it. I know that the Clippers (without Khawi) aren't a contender or anything like that but it was his day view of their new arena and for sure was an special game for them.

KD had some bad TOs but man, what a CLUTCH shot he made with just 18 seconds on the clock. Good game from him defending great (on Harden and 3 steals/1 block) ad scoring his usual 25 points.

Props to Nurkic for scoring all those FTs. He showed that he deserves to he on the court to finish games.

Beal's efficiency was outstanding and he can build on this game. Tough break at the end with that small ankle sprain, hopefully he is good to go for the next one.

Book with foul trouble when he was playing his best minutes. It was a shame.

11 man rotation from Budenholzer, I didn't see that coming but he really wanted to play Oso and Dunn. Both played decent games and they scored their first NBA points.

I love what I saw from Royce O'Neale. His boxscore is meh but he played very well his role and allowed us to play small and make a run at the end of the game. Without him we lose the game IMO.

It wasn't a pretty game but 1-0 with a rested Booker. Good.

Good summary, Saber. Beal going 8-12 was really encouraging. I was also relieved to see Grayson Allen moving normally. I was a little worried about them based on preseason.

I really like Coach Bud. There were several possessions where we were able to get the Clippers out of position and move the ball around the perimeter for an open 3 - something you see a lot with good teams, but almost never from us last season. You can tell we're still learning the habit of running the baseline to the corners, but it was great to see the work-being-progressed.

I also liked that he made time for Dunn and Oso early in the 1st half before turning to his vets in the second half. Dunn got a couple quick lessons from Harden. The rooks played the right way.

As for the roster, I got the same impression as many others - it would be nice to have more athleticism, size and energy around the rim. I think the Lakers are good and will probably beat us tomorrow, but for now, it's nice to be 1-0! The book has just opened the season and for now we have much to cheer for.

[lilfishi22]

If Oso keeps playing like this and improving, I wouldn't mind him playing C. He seemed to give more resistance at the rim than the others, is a more energetic rebounder, and more athletic than our other Cs. I think we could play faster too. He's 6'11, 235. He's about the size of Amare, a little taller, a little slimmer. He's taller than a guy like Bam.

I know I'm putting him in the same sentence with great players, and I don't expect him to be that, but just an energetic rebounder, pretty good rim deterrent, more active and athletic...I would be interested to see what he looked like at C with our starters.

Oso is 6'9.5 without shoes but the biggest problem for him is that he has a 6'11 wingspan, that's why he looks somewhat "small" out there as a C.

Well I guess I don't know everyone's heights with and without shoes. I've have also seen him listed at 7ft. I know he's not that tall though. So his wingspan is the same as Plumlee..a little shorter than Nurkic, though that is negated by his ability to jump.

Nurkic just doesn't look very good. He just doesn't seem like he fits for what we need. I don't know that we have alternatives/options to trade, so I don't know the answer. Playing Oso at C isn't ideal, but neither is playing our other Cs.

He fit last year because he was so integral to our non-Big 3 playmaking. Now that we have 2 very competent PG's, we really don't need his playmaking nearly as much and the fact that he was still heavily involved in creating plays (exacerbated by some ugly turnovers), it really stood out like a sore thumb. I think he still has value setting screens, playmking plays in the short roll, shooting (hopefully hitting) some threes and just being a big body in the middle who rebounds and defends but the playmaking role he had last year has got to go

[lilfishi22]

Just ended watching this first game and...wow...my heart had some tough moments in this one and it was just the **** first game.

Well, first and foremost A WIN ON THE ROAD. I love it. I know that the Clippers (without Khawi) aren't a contender or anything like that but it was his day view of their new arena and for sure was an special game for them.

KD had some bad TOs but man, what a CLUTCH shot he made with just 18 seconds on the clock. Good game from him defending great (on Harden and 3 steals/1 block) ad scoring his usual 25 points.

Props to Nurkic for scoring all those FTs. He showed that he deserves to he on the court to finish games.

Beal's efficiency was outstanding and he can build on this game. Tough break at the end with that small ankle sprain, hopefully he is good to go for the next one.

Book with foul trouble when he was playing his best minutes. It was a shame.

11 man rotation from Budenholzer, I didn't see that coming but he really wanted to play Oso and Dunn. Both played decent games and they scored their first NBA points.

I love what I saw from Royce O'Neale. His boxscore is meh but he played very well his role and allowed us to play small and make a run at the end of the game. Without him we lose the game IMO.

It wasn't a pretty game but 1-0 with a rested Booker. Good.

Good summary, Saber. Beal going 8-12 was really encouraging. I was also relieved to see Grayson Allen moving normally. I was a little worried about them based on preseason.

I really like Coach Bud. There were several possessions where we were able to get the Clippers out of position and move the ball around the perimeter for an open 3 - something you see a lot with good teams, but almost never from us last season. You can tell we're still learning the habit of running the baseline to the corners, but it was great to see the work-being-progressed.

I also liked that he made time for Dunn and Oso early in the 1st half before turning to his vets in the second half. Dunn got a couple quick lessons from Harden. The rooks played the right way.

As for the roster, I got the same impression as many others - it would be nice to have more athleticism, size and energy around the rim. I think the Lakers are good and will probably beat us tomorrow, but for now, it's nice to be 1-0! The book has just opened the season and for now we have much to cheer for.

In games where Book and KD have it going on (most of the time), it's easy to point out Beal's redundancy and lesser impact given he's not a huge contributor defensively or in playmaking but this is exactly why we have a guy like Beal. KD was all over the place with his TO's, Book had good spurts but fouled out, this is where having a guy of Beal's calibre really show its value. Is if $50m a year in value? No but it is what it is and I'm glad we have him for this situations.

Agree with you both, I loved those Oso/Dunn minutes. For their first pro game, they both performed really well. It's easy to nitpick things here and there about their performance but overall, I thought they looked like NBA pros out there.

[sashaturiaf]

Just ended watching this first game and...wow...my heart had some tough moments in this one and it was just the **** first game.

Well, first and foremost A WIN ON THE ROAD. I love it. I know that the Clippers (without Khawi) aren't a contender or anything like that but it was his day view of their new arena and for sure was an special game for them.

KD had some bad TOs but man, what a CLUTCH shot he made with just 18 seconds on the clock. Good game from him defending great (on Harden and 3 steals/1 block) ad scoring his usual 25 points.

Props to Nurkic for scoring all those FTs. He showed that he deserves to he on the court to finish games.

Beal's efficiency was outstanding and he can build on this game. Tough break at the end with that small ankle sprain, hopefully he is good to go for the next one.

Book with foul trouble when he was playing his best minutes. It was a shame.

11 man rotation from Budenholzer, I didn't see that coming but he really wanted to play Oso and Dunn. Both played decent games and they scored their first NBA points.

I love what I saw from Royce O'Neale. His boxscore is meh but he played very well his role and allowed us to play small and make a run at the end of the game. Without him we lose the game IMO.

It wasn't a pretty game but 1-0 with a rested Booker. Good.

Good summary, Saber. Beal going 8-12 was really encouraging. I was also relieved to see Grayson Allen moving normally. I was a little worried about them based on preseason.

I really like Coach Bud. There were several possessions where we were able to get the Clippers out of position and move the ball around the perimeter for an open 3 - something you see a lot with good teams, but almost never from us last season. You can tell we're still learning the habit of running the baseline to the corners, but it was great to see the work-being-progressed.

I also liked that he made time for Dunn and Oso early in the 1st half before turning to his vets in the second half. Dunn got a couple quick lessons from Harden. The rooks played the right way.

As for the roster, I got the same impression as many others - it would be nice to have more athleticism, size and energy around the rim. I think the Lakers are good and will probably beat us tomorrow, but for now, it's nice to be 1-0! The book has just opened the season and for now we have much to cheer for.

In games where Book and KD have it going on (most of the time), it's easy to point out Beal's redundancy and lesser impact given he's not a huge contributor defensively or in playmaking but this is exactly why we have a guy like Beal. KD was all over the place with his TO's, Book had good spurts but fouled out, this is where having a guy of Beal's calibre really show its value. Is if $50m a year in value? No but it is what it is and I'm glad we have him for this situations.

Agree with you both, I loved those Oso/Dunn minutes. For their first pro game, they both performed really well. It's easy to nitpick things here and there about their performance but overall, I thought they looked like NBA pros out there.

Beal is fantastic as a primary scorer but he is a complete waste of $50m in his default role on this team where he just stands in the corner like he's Bronny James. Tough as it might be to take, trading Book for an all-NBA level big would make our team so much better.

[lilfishi22]

Good summary, Saber. Beal going 8-12 was really encouraging. I was also relieved to see Grayson Allen moving normally. I was a little worried about them based on preseason.

I really like Coach Bud. There were several possessions where we were able to get the Clippers out of position and move the ball around the perimeter for an open 3 - something you see a lot with good teams, but almost never from us last season. You can tell we're still learning the habit of running the baseline to the corners, but it was great to see the work-being-progressed.

I also liked that he made time for Dunn and Oso early in the 1st half before turning to his vets in the second half. Dunn got a couple quick lessons from Harden. The rooks played the right way.

As for the roster, I got the same impression as many others - it would be nice to have more athleticism, size and energy around the rim. I think the Lakers are good and will probably beat us tomorrow, but for now, it's nice to be 1-0! The book has just opened the season and for now we have much to cheer for.

In games where Book and KD have it going on (most of the time), it's easy to point out Beal's redundancy and lesser impact given he's not a huge contributor defensively or in playmaking but this is exactly why we have a guy like Beal. KD was all over the place with his TO's, Book had good spurts but fouled out, this is where having a guy of Beal's calibre really show its value. Is if $50m a year in value? No but it is what it is and I'm glad we have him for this situations.

Agree with you both, I loved those Oso/Dunn minutes. For their first pro game, they both performed really well. It's easy to nitpick things here and there about their performance but overall, I thought they looked like NBA pros out there.

Beal is fantastic as a primary scorer but he is a complete waste of $50m in his default role on this team where he just stands in the corner like he's Bronny James. Tough as it might be to take, trading Book for an all-NBA level big would make our team so much better.

[sashaturiaf]

In games where Book and KD have it going on (most of the time), it's easy to point out Beal's redundancy and lesser impact given he's not a huge contributor defensively or in playmaking but this is exactly why we have a guy like Beal. KD was all over the place with his TO's, Book had good spurts but fouled out, this is where having a guy of Beal's calibre really show its value. Is if $50m a year in value? No but it is what it is and I'm glad we have him for this situations.

Agree with you both, I loved those Oso/Dunn minutes. For their first pro game, they both performed really well. It's easy to nitpick things here and there about their performance but overall, I thought they looked like NBA pros out there.

Beal is fantastic as a primary scorer but he is a complete waste of $50m in his default role on this team where he just stands in the corner like he's Bronny James. Tough as it might be to take, trading Book for an all-NBA level big would make our team so much better.

I'd trade Beal and even KD ahead of Book 100 times out of 100, however the market out there for guys making $50m with a no trade clause and 36 year olds are pretty frigid.

[lilfishi22]

Beal is fantastic as a primary scorer but he is a complete waste of $50m in his default role on this team where he just stands in the corner like he's Bronny James. Tough as it might be to take, trading Book for an all-NBA level big would make our team so much better.

I'd trade Beal and even KD ahead of Book 100 times out of 100, however the market out there for guys making $50m with a no trade clause and 36 year olds are pretty frigid.

I'd rather lose in the 2nd round with this Big 3 than lose in the WCF/Finals and lose a Suns Great in the process

[bigfoot]

It is alleged to be a slight misquote but Mark Twain once said: "The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated". Its probably already apparent, but I'm really into trite quotes. But that is what I thought of during this game and thread. I've always believed: "It ain't over 'till the fat lady sings". I thought the hysteria over the horrible variety of KD's 7 turnovers, and his 36 years, early and even after the game, was a bit excessive, although I did see him get eight in another game. I think Harden's eight is further evidence of what happens sometimes when you have to ISO or lose. And this can fairly be considered the ranting of a hopeless fanatical fan, but I will be comforted by the fact that Coach Bud knows much more than I do, and almost as much as the big three detractors, and played his 36 year old 44 minutes in the game.

I think Kevin's 16 year average of 3.2 turnovers per (2.7 in the functional GS offense) suggests that such occurrences as in this game are aberrations. I think KD and Beal, with some clutch free throw makes by Nurkic won this game. I prefer to put the failures in context. The bad: 7 turnovers and 0 assists compared to career averages of 3.2 and 4.4. The good: 12 point 4th quarter (IMO most influential in tying the game), most team points 25 at 47/40/78%, equaled career average of 7 rebounds, 1.7 less FG attempts (17) than career average so hardly more ball dominant, 3 steals, one block, and most importantly awesome defense on Harden.

I'll close by saying I consider Beal equally responsible for winning this game. He had 24 points, 7 of the 13 in the OT (with the other six consisting of 4 Nurkic and 2 Durant free throws).

This right here is a quality post and appreciated. The hot takes by others about Durant and Nurk are really underwhelming. Bunch of chicken littles.

[King4Day]

It was cool to see how fast we were with both rookies out there. We've been so slow ever since Paul joined us years ago. Could be a nice blend of speed and half court

[lilfishi22]

It was cool to see how fast we were with both rookies out there. We've been so slow ever since Paul joined us years ago. Could be a nice blend of speed and half court

Even with Tyus bringing the ball up the court, he isn't walking it up. At its slowest, it's a brisk hop and most of the time, he's jogging it up. None of this walking it up, barking/signalling orders from the back court and crossing the halfway mark with barely enough time left of the 8s

For all the ugly KD ISO's and turnovers, the rest of the team did play a brand of basketball I think leads to success and that's fast.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Might take a month to see where we stand.

OKC Nov 15
Minn Nov 17

We'll see if our strengths can compete with their modern day athleticism.