The One And Only Offseason Thread 3

[Sunsdeuce]

Sarver strikes again. Everytime I start giving him the benefit of the doubt, stuff like this is brought

Where does anything that would support you trashing Sarver appear to you in anything above? Please commence with your "I thought this was America I can have my own opinion" rant.

Honestly I don't think that is Sarver. I've never been a fan of Sarver in the past, but I think he finally gave the reigns over to McD to make the decisions which is what was needed and this stuff will happen. Now he may try and intervene if Dragic is going to go, but maybe not if he has enough faith in McD.

Good post. Nice to read some well thought out opinions.


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[phx#7]

For the Sarver is cheap crowd, he has paid more than 28 million combined to Childress and Beasley the past couple years to go away. Childress is currently the 2nd highest paid person on the roster behind Dragic.

[bwgood77]

People will forget about Frye quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if he goes a month of no playing time.

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He will get ample playing time to allow Payton (who can't shoot) and Oladipo to get to the rim with less inside presence, especially since another forward they have (Aaron Gordon) can't shoot either and will likely not be able to stretch much at all.

I am pretty interested in watching them actually. Of course I am a Cats fan and there are two of them, but I think Frye and Gordon will complement each other well. Frye is a stretch 4 and can hit free throws, and Aaron Gordon can defend, hit rebounds and dunk. I think Frye stretching another big away from the basket should also set up some nice alley-oops from Payton or Dipo to Gordon.

I thought it was an odd signing at first for Orlando, but upon further thought, I think it was a great signing to allow their guards to flourish. I could see them using their guards like we do to an extent. I think between Woodworm (Wormwood?) and I we got their board from being mad to being excited about the signing on their board. Well some of them at least.

[DirtyDez]

Thomas 4/28
Frye 4/32

[spanishninja]

welp another stretch 4 gone, albeit an old one

https://twitter.com/SpearsNBAYahoo/stat ... 5849199617

[lespaul89]

"I felt like they (the Suns) were saving money for other things," Frye said. "They were not close enough to me to take it seriously, which makes sense. It's a business.

"You have to be somewhere you're wanted. I felt like the guys who have been there for years became a side note."

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /12710595/

Sarver strikes again. Everytime I start giving him the benefit of the doubt, stuff like this is brought to light.


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Sarver is very smart in this situation. Suns never, not once, made it to the playoffs in the "Stretch 4 Era". Every year that Frye was our starting PF we missed the playoffs. Frye played a Stretch C in 2009-10 when we went to the WCF, but that team was all about Nash-Amare, with Frye being a complimentary player. Once Amare was traded in July 2010 and Frye became our starting PF, the days of Suns going to the playoffs were over. I don't blame him entirely for Suns missing the playoffs, but he owns part of it.

Sarver and McD are smart to turn the page and move in a new direction. I think it's a bit of a cheap shot by Frye to whine at the end saying he felt like a side note because he had been there for years. I thought he was classier than that.

What do you expect from a guy who went to U of A?

[bwgood77]

For the Sarver is cheap crowd, he has paid more than 28 million combined to Childress and Beasley the past couple years to go away. Childress is currently the 2nd highest paid person on the roster behind Dragic.

Not cheap, but if only he could have paid that same money to Kurt Thomas or to JJ a year earlier in FA...just bad timing....but I suppose he lived and learned. It's just hard for many to wonder "what if?"

[spanishninja]

I liked Frye and all, but I really wonder how much shorter his career would have been if not for the Suns.

[Sunsdeuce]

For the Sarver is cheap crowd, he has paid more than 28 million combined to Childress and Beasley the past couple years to go away. Childress is currently the 2nd highest paid person on the roster behind Dragic.

I don't think he is cheap, I just think he and the management could have went their separate ways with frye a little differently. Course, I have no idea what's going on in the background (things we don't see). I do have some sympathy for frye because he is homegrown.

Sarver hasn't been a saint. Still don't like how he hasn't embraced colangelo. That's an alley he really should have tried hard to keep. But he owns the majority of the suns so he can do as he pleases.

But frye is gone and now we really need a PF. Let's see who we end up getting.


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[Cutter]

Puff, what exactly are you talking about? How do WE end up with David Lee in a Minnesota/GS trade?

Couldn't we just absorb his salary due to the amount of cap space we have?

If Love is off the table, I'm not opposed to getting David Lee. Not thrilled, but not opposed.

You mean just absorb his salary and send out a 2nd round pick or something? I guess we could, but all along I've been saying I'd never accept the GS offer because the Lee contract has negative value and Barnes sucked last year.

Lee helps us with rebounding but that is it. The whole point GS wants to trade for Love is because they want a stretch 4 which is what we REALLY need moreso than GS even, because their guards are MUCH better shooters than ours.

I might be swimming against the current on this, but I'm moving away from supporting the whole stretch 4 concept. It looks great on paper, and stats seem to suggest that it is the way to go, but the Suns have had very poor success when using a stretch 4. Since Frye became our stretch 4 in 2010 Sums haven't been to the playoffs one time (4 years). There are many reasons besides Frye we didn't make the playoffs, but regardless the stretch 4 concept didn't work in Phoenix.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what I think though. McD seems to be totally on board with the Stretch 4 concept so the matter is pretty much closed.

[lilfishi22]

I liked Frye and all, but I really wonder how much shorter his career would have been if not for the Suns.

I don't know if it'll be shorter but guarantee he won't be on $8m a year if it wasn't for the Suns.

[bwgood77]

Suns never, not once, made it to the playoffs in the "Stretch 4 Era".

I seem to remember Marion playing 4 quite a bit and standing out at the 3 pt line in the corner taking awkward looking threes drawing a defender out so Nash and Amare could carve up people in the pick n roll/pop game. They made the playoffs a few times. But perhaps that was before you were a Suns fan.

Edit: I just quoted this from an earlier post but it looks like you have a newer one saying the same thing. This applies though. D'Antoni wanted to stretch the floor and have a finisher and pick-n-roll game in the middle.

[bwgood77]

I might be swimming against the current on this, but I'm moving away from supporting the whole stretch 4 concept. It looks great on paper, and stats seem to suggest that it is the way to go, but the Suns have had very poor success when using a stretch 4. Since Frye became our stretch 4 in 2010 Sums haven't been to the playoffs one time (4 years). There are many reasons besides Frye we didn't make the playoffs, but regardless the stretch 4 concept didn't work in Phoenix.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what I think though. McD seems to be totally on board with the Stretch 4 concept so the matter is pretty much closed.

I guess it really depends on whether you like our setup with our guards last year or not. Dragic, for example, and Bledsoe maybe even to a larger extent, would not have been nearly as effective without a stretch 4.

Think of Dragic the year before with Gortat and Scola. 25 wins. You talk about not making the playoffs. But we are talking 48 wins vs 25. I really doubt Bledsoe's game works nearly as well either because he is a worse outside shooter and needs to drive...with two bigs in the middle he would struggle more than Dragic because he is less crafty.

[lilfishi22]

I don't think he is cheap, I just think he and the management could have went their separate ways with frye a little differently. Course, I have no idea what's going on in the background (things we don't see). I do have some sympathy for frye because he is homegrown.

The way I see it, Frye felt slighted because either we didn't try harder (read: offered more) to retain him or we took too long to get in touch with him with an offer. Either way, I think we would have given him a reasonable (keeping LBJ in mind) offer and if he felt slighted because we were giving more attention to Lebron then the guy is clearly too sensitive.

[phx#7]

Was 2010 not part of the stretch 4 era? I also seem to recall starting Tim Thomas in the 2006 play off run....

[Sunsdeuce]

I don't think he is cheap, I just think he and the management could have went their separate ways with frye a little differently. Course, I have no idea what's going on in the background (things we don't see). I do have some sympathy for frye because he is homegrown.

The way I see it, Frye felt slighted because either we didn't try harder (read: offered more) to retain him or we took too long to get in touch with him with an offer. Either way, I think we would have given him a reasonable (keeping LBJ in mind) offer and if he felt slighted because we were giving more attention to Lebron then the guy is clearly too sensitive.

I see what your saying.


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[bwgood77]

Was 2010 not part of the stretch 4 era? I also seem to recall starting Tim Thomas in the 2006 play off run....

I almost used 2010 as well as an example because I remembered Grant Hill trying to take 3s, but then I also remember Lopez starting so although we likely played some it that way, we often had a more traditional lineup.

But the funny thing is, what made us GREAT that year was our bench. And guess who was on it? DRAGIC AND FRYE!

Definitely 2006 we played that way.

[lespaul89]

For the Sarver is cheap crowd, he has paid more than 28 million combined to Childress and Beasley the past couple years to go away. Childress is currently the 2nd highest paid person on the roster behind Dragic.

Not cheap, but if only he could have paid that same money to Kurt Thomas or to JJ a year earlier in FA...just bad timing....but I suppose he lived and learned. It's just hard for many to wonder "what if?"

I blame the KT debacle entirely on Dantoni. Dude wasn't smart enough to play him. I still fully believe we would of beat the Spurs in 06-07 if he just played KT more. Only game the Spurs didn't get double digit offensive rebounds was the game Amare/Boris got suspended. Toni was pretty much forced to play him. Only game they kept the Spurs under 100 as well.

So what does the brilliant coach do the next game? 17 minutes.

[Cutter]

I might be swimming against the current on this, but I'm moving away from supporting the whole stretch 4 concept. It looks great on paper, and stats seem to suggest that it is the way to go, but the Suns have had very poor success when using a stretch 4. Since Frye became our stretch 4 in 2010 Sums haven't been to the playoffs one time (4 years). There are many reasons besides Frye we didn't make the playoffs, but regardless the stretch 4 concept didn't work in Phoenix.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what I think though. McD seems to be totally on board with the Stretch 4 concept so the matter is pretty much closed.

I guess it really depends on whether you like our setup with our guards last year or not. Dragic, for example, and Bledsoe maybe even to a larger extent, would not have been nearly as effective without a stretch 4.

Think of Dragic the year before with Gortat and Scola. 25 wins. You talk about not making the playoffs. But we are talking 48 wins vs 25. I really doubt Bledsoe's game works nearly as well either because he is a worse outside shooter and needs to drive...with two bigs in the middle he would struggle more than Dragic because he is less crafty.

Agree completely on our PG set up. This team is completely built around the "stretch 4" concept, and without that neither Goran nor Eric would have been nearly as effective last year and Suns would not have won as many games. Having a PF who only has the ability to shoot 3's, and no other offensive (or defensive) skill set is not a winning formula.

[bwgood77]

For the Sarver is cheap crowd, he has paid more than 28 million combined to Childress and Beasley the past couple years to go away. Childress is currently the 2nd highest paid person on the roster behind Dragic.

Not cheap, but if only he could have paid that same money to Kurt Thomas or to JJ a year earlier in FA...just bad timing....but I suppose he lived and learned. It's just hard for many to wonder "what if?"

I blame the KT debacle entirely on Dantoni. Dude wasn't smart enough to play him. I still fully believe we would of beat the Spurs in 06-07 if he just played KT more. Only game the Spurs didn't get double digit offensive rebounds was the game Amare/Boris got suspended. Toni was pretty much forced to play him. Only game they kept the Spurs under 100 as well.

So what does the brilliant coach do the next game? 17 minutes.

Yeah, honestly I think D'Antoni was a brilliant coach (now it has been replicated so much that he isn't any more) but if he had just a tad bit more focus on some aspects he potentially could have been better.

But I think many people seem to think our offense would have been just as good had we focused on defense more, and that probably isn't the case. He did have reasons why he did what he did, which made our offense more efficient and unstoppable. His philosophy was basically it doesn't matter how much the other team scores if we are more efficient at it.

And it was fun, and it probably took us a lot further than had another coach been around in 2004-05, but after that season, such high expectations were placed on him and the team that if they didn't win it all he was going to get criticized. He even led the team without Amare the next year far. Many want to credit Nash, which is somewhat fair, but Nash was never nearly the player he was before he played under D'Antoni, and he played with very good teams. Gentry ran the same stuff as D'Antoni.