Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

[jcsunsfan]

Won't the Net's have enough cap space to sign him though?

Even if he tears it up and the market offers him $12-$15m a year, it looks like the Nets will have room?

Godddamnit, it sucks that we didn't offer Philly something of value for him before they didn't lock in his option.

If a team trades for him they can't pay him more next year than his 4th year option would have been. But any other team can. So they can lose him if someone outbids.

Wow! That is insane!!!!!!

Philly is so dumb! And the Nets aren't much brighter. They could showcase him and then totally see teams outbid them!

Exactly. And Fishi, you are correct, his untradeability was not about his play—at least not all about that—but about the weird contract situation.


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[bwgood77]

If a team trades for him they can't pay him more next year than his 4th year option would have been. But any other team can. So they can lose him if someone outbids.

Wow! That is insane!!!!!!

Philly is so dumb! And the Nets aren't much brighter. They could showcase him and then totally see teams outbid them!

Exactly. And Fishi, you are correct, his untradeability was not about his play—at least not all about that—but about the weird contract situation.


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Who is Fishi in this exchange?

[WeekapaugGroove]

If a team trades for him they can't pay him more next year than his 4th year option would have been. But any other team can. So they can lose him if someone outbids.

Wow! That is insane!!!!!!

Philly is so dumb! And the Nets aren't much brighter. They could showcase him and then totally see teams outbid them!

Exactly. And Fishi, you are correct, his untradeability was not about his play—at least not all about that—but about the weird contract situation.


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The sixers have been trying to trade him since the summer of 16 well before the contract situation they chose to create. Probably because no one offered anything.

I personally would have been cool trading for him at the start of the season because he's 21 and why not with the suns current c situation. I just have some doubts he's all that good. Hope I'm wrong though because it would be another option in FA.

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[asudevil]

Yeah there was absolutely no point in trading for Okafor.

a.) either he does well, hurts our draft position, and then leaves via FA. And believe me a player in his position would never take 1 year of guaranteed money due to loyalty over a multi-year contract.
b.) he sucks and trading any sort of asset (expiring) would have just made it a pointless trade. Not to say that Monroe will net anything of value, but eliminating that possibility would have made no sense.

If Philly had not declined his 4th year, trading for him would have been a no-brainer for me. But his situation destroyed any value he once had.

Brooklyn essentially has nothing to lose. If he does well, then the pick they owe to Cleveland gets worse. They gave up nothing of value, and gained a 2nd in the process. Booker was probably not in their future plans anyways.

[NavLDO]

One time the Suns had KJ, Kidd and Nash together. Two of them are in the Ring of Honor.

At another point Suns had Bledsoe, Dragic and IT together. None of them now would put out Ryan if he was on fire.

And the top 3 are all HOF candidates, while...

...the bottom 3 will never sniff a HOF vote, and still cryin' about...well...how McD is the source of all their woes...

[NavLDO]

Just putting this out there for all you dreaming for a Nash-like point guard. You have to ask yourselves if that's what we need to pair with Booker. Booker is going to have the ball in his hands and has shown himself to be a capable and willing passer. Just to remind you ... who were the PGs next to Kobe and Jordan?? Their career stats were 8.3pts/3.0asts and 9.8pts/3.3asts, respectively. The key was they could hit the three pointer with career numbers of .413 and .425, respectively and played halfway decent defense.

We would be fine with a journeyman PG who can shoot the ball and play decent defense. We lack an all-star caliber PF or C and an all-defense PF or C. Those should be our targets for trades and free agent signings. We have to have a scoring threat down low to create open shots in our offense and someone to provide elite rim protection. That can come from one player (e.g., Duncan-like) or two (elite-offensive PF and elite-defensive C or reverse).

Nice research and analysis; that makes sense. Hopefully McD is listening. We just need to find the best 3PT-shooting PG in the draft, and after looking, we should target Landry Shamet of Wichita St. in the 2nd. Currently hitting 53% on 4.5 3s per game, and 94% on his FTs. He's a junior and only 6', hence his draft slotting.

Or, we can target Collin Sexton or Lonnie Walker early...say in the late lotto area, as they are shooting 46% and 42% respectively, from 3. My concern is, they both only shoot in the low 70s at the line.

As far as Centers, we really need to go hard after Boogie, if we do not get a top Center in the draft. I really like Robert Williams, bt when I read this from his profile...

"Impressionable kid who still has a long ways to go to fulfill his vast potential. His ability to realize it figures to be contigent upon landing with the right organization/coaching staff/surrounding clubhouse ..."

...I cringe and just think that maybe Wendell Carter might be the better selection for us. Not the upside of Bamba/Williams/Ayton, but more ready to play.

[Qwigglez]

What do you guys think about the possibility of getting KAT? I've read multiple boards where fans aren't very happy with his defensive efforts. What would you guys be willing to trade for him if he was made available? There has been mentions fans would be willing to trade him for fair value, which I'm not sure what that would be.

[Bjorpa]

What do you guys think about the possibility of getting KAT? I've read multiple boards where fans aren't very happy with his defensive efforts. What would you guys be willing to trade for him if he was made available? There has been mentions fans would be willing to trade him for fair value, which I'm not sure what that would be.

They already have Wiggins, som have no need for Jackson.

They'd probably want a star om return, leaving us out of the picture.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

What do you guys think about the possibility of getting KAT? I've read multiple boards where fans aren't very happy with his defensive efforts. What would you guys be willing to trade for him if he was made available? There has been mentions fans would be willing to trade him for fair value, which I'm not sure what that would be.

They already have Wiggins, som have no need for Jackson.

They'd probably want a star om return, leaving us out of the picture.

The die hards might be interested in that kind of deal, but no way the FO moves KAT any time soon. An opportunity to snag KAT will not be available until the next-to-last year of his max extension, at the earliest.

[King4Day]

I don't agree at all with the Nets making a mistake with this trade. Do people really think he's suddenly going to become a stud the rest of the season where teams will want to pay him 10 figures?

There's a good chance any team out there will only want to give him a small deal next year to see if he fits with them. not what he did for the Nets. Brooklyn won this deal as, at the very least, they add another 2nd rounder and give fans some excitement and a reason to come to games.

I wonder if they can cut him before the last game of the season and then be in the same situation as the rest of the teams too. If so, I'm sure they'll discuss that with him. If not, maybe he'll consider loyalty, and an under the table deal, where they'd pay him the following season.

[LukasBMW]

I don't agree at all with the Nets making a mistake with this trade. Do people really think he's suddenly going to become a stud the rest of the season where teams will want to pay him 10 figures?

There's a good chance any team out there will only want to give him a small deal next year to see if he fits with them. not what he did for the Nets. Brooklyn won this deal as, at the very least, they add another 2nd rounder and give fans some excitement and a reason to come to games.

I wonder if they can cut him before the last game of the season and then be in the same situation as the rest of the teams too. If so, I'm sure they'll discuss that with him. If not, maybe he'll consider loyalty, and an under the table deal, where they'd pay him the following season.

Okafor looked pretty darn good in his rookie year until he got hurt. I've never seen so many people discount a guy who averaged 17.5 points and 7 rebounds in his rookie year (playing only 30 minutes a game).

Some sports caster said that allstar centers dominate from day 1 and that's exactly what Okafor did on the offensive end.

Then he got hurt. Then he got in trouble off the court. Then Embiid came back. Then they had a logjam with Embiid/Okafor/Noel. And...Philly just gave up on him instead of trying to help him on the defensive end.

It's really insane. If he shows potential in Brooklyn and we don't draft a stud center in this draft, I'd offer him $30-$36 mil over 3 years before I offer that to Len. Especially if we can get a team option on year 3.

And maybe that is the plan. We have the rest of the season to look at Len and watch Okafor from afar and see who we want to pay.

[jcsunsfan]

I don't agree at all with the Nets making a mistake with this trade. Do people really think he's suddenly going to become a stud the rest of the season where teams will want to pay him 10 figures?

There's a good chance any team out there will only want to give him a small deal next year to see if he fits with them. not what he did for the Nets. Brooklyn won this deal as, at the very least, they add another 2nd rounder and give fans some excitement and a reason to come to games.

I wonder if they can cut him before the last game of the season and then be in the same situation as the rest of the teams too. If so, I'm sure they'll discuss that with him. If not, maybe he'll consider loyalty, and an under the table deal, where they'd pay him the following season.

Okafor looked pretty darn good in his rookie year until he got hurt. I've never seen so many people discount a guy who averaged 17.5 points and 7 rebounds in his rookie year (playing only 30 minutes a game).

Some sports caster said that allstar centers dominate from day 1 and that's exactly what Okafor did on the offensive end.

Then he got hurt. Then he got in trouble off the court. Then Embiid came back. Then they had a logjam with Embiid/Okafor/Noel. And...Philly just gave up on him instead of trying to help him on the defensive end.

It's really insane. If he shows potential in Brooklyn and we don't draft a stud center in this draft, I'd offer him $30-$36 mil over 3 years before I offer that to Len. Especially if we can get a team option on year 3.

And maybe that is the plan. We have the rest of the season to look at Len and watch Okafor from afar and see who we want to pay.

I think it might be the plan. It sure looks to me like Devin Booker has been recruiting him. "Free Jah" tweet. Then long talks during and after the game in Philly.

Its just so frustrating about Len. If he just focused, he could lead the league in rebounding.

[jcsunsfan]

OK. MIlwaukee is interested in Deandre Jordan. They would like to put together a big three of Giannis, Bledsoe, and Jordan, which is pretty potent. But they have to give up something to get it. DJ is an expiring BUT they would have his Bird rights and it is the type of place DJ would like to go.

Phoenix steps in to facilitate. The Clippers need a big man, and if it is an expiring, they would love to have his Bird rights.

Clippers out: Deandre Jordan, Lou Williams
Clippers in: Greg Monroe, Kris Middleton, Malcom Brogdon

Not a bad haul for DJ who might leave this summer anyway. All decently young players to go with Blake.

Milwaukee out: Jabari Parker, Kriss Middleton, Malcom Brogdon.
Milwaukee in: Deandre Jordan, Troy Daniels

They give up a lot, but they get their big 3. Jabari is a FA and a question mark about matching because of injuries. Middleton and Brogdon are the young pieces that make this trade work. They get DJ AND a shooter which they really need (and presently lack) to open the floor for Giannis.

Suns out: Greg Monroe, Troy Daniels
Suns in: Jabari Parker, Lou Williams

McD loves trading for restricted free agents (Bledsoe, Knight). He gets a chance to look at them, and then he is in control of keeping them if he wants. Jabari Parker could really benefit from the Suns med staff, and he plays a position that other young players seem to have a hard time filling well right now. Lou Williams could be moved somewhere else or bought out.

Salaries work. Remember that Parker is a FA this summer, and Milwaukee has a tough decision about keeping him. They have typically moved on if its doubtful (Brandon Knight). Lou Williams is also an expiring.

[BobbieL]

OK. MIlwaukee is interested in Deandre Jordan. They would like to put together a big three of Giannis, Bledsoe, and Jordan, which is pretty potent. But they have to give up something to get it. DJ is an expiring BUT they would have his Bird rights and it is the type of place DJ would like to go.

Phoenix steps in to facilitate. The Clippers need a big man, and if it is an expiring, they would love to have his Bird rights.

Clippers out: Deandre Jordan, Lou Williams
Clippers in: Greg Monroe, Kris Middleton, Malcom Brogdon

Milwaukee out: Jabari Parker, Kriss Middleton, Malcom Brogdon.
Milwaukee in: Deandre Jordan, Troy Daniels

Suns out: Greg Monroe, Troy Daniels
Suns in: Jabari Parker, Lou Williams

Salaries work. Remember that Parker is a FA this summer, and Milwaukee has a tough decision about keeping him. They have typically moved on if its doubtful (Brandon Knight). Lou Williams is also an expiring.

Quite honestly, I think would rather use Monroe/Daniels for George Hill than Jabari Parker. I just am not sure where Parker fits in with the Suns as the Suns have young forwards already. Granted, not turning down talent, I get that.. Sweet Lou is not your ideal PG type player. Hill would be a solid PG for the next 1.5 years, off the books in summer of 2019 with Dudley and Chandler and also would help out not only Booker but the other players like Warren, Chriss and Bender as a facilitator.

I do think this trade is what the Clippers and Bucks would want though. Clippers would get two young players to build around and an expiring contract in Monroe so that works for them. For the Bucks, the same - though Middleton might be a lot to give up but you have to give to get.

[jcsunsfan]

OK. MIlwaukee is interested in Deandre Jordan. They would like to put together a big three of Giannis, Bledsoe, and Jordan, which is pretty potent. But they have to give up something to get it. DJ is an expiring BUT they would have his Bird rights and it is the type of place DJ would like to go.

Phoenix steps in to facilitate. The Clippers need a big man, and if it is an expiring, they would love to have his Bird rights.

Clippers out: Deandre Jordan, Lou Williams
Clippers in: Greg Monroe, Kris Middleton, Malcom Brogdon

Milwaukee out: Jabari Parker, Kriss Middleton, Malcom Brogdon.
Milwaukee in: Deandre Jordan, Troy Daniels

Suns out: Greg Monroe, Troy Daniels
Suns in: Jabari Parker, Lou Williams

Salaries work. Remember that Parker is a FA this summer, and Milwaukee has a tough decision about keeping him. They have typically moved on if its doubtful (Brandon Knight). Lou Williams is also an expiring.

Quite honestly, I think would rather use Monroe/Daniels for George Hill than Jabari Parker. I just am not sure where Parker fits in with the Suns as the Suns have young forwards already. Granted, not turning down talent, I get that.. Sweet Lou is not your ideal PG type player. Hill would be a solid PG for the next 1.5 years, off the books in summer of 2019 with Dudley and Chandler and also would help out not only Booker but the other players like Warren, Chriss and Bender as a facilitator.

I do think this trade is what the Clippers and Bucks would want though. Clippers would get two young players to build around and an expiring contract in Monroe so that works for them. For the Bucks, the same - though Middleton might be a lot to give up but you have to give to get.

Lou is not a pg. He is a 2. Neither Bender or Chriss seem to be stepping up. Parker is a better prospect than both of them anyway (when healty). I am not letting those two keep me from improving that position.

If you really want Hill, follow up this trade with a Chriss (or Bender) plus Lou for Hill trade, and you have what you want. Or better yet, Dudley, Lou and a pick for Hill.

Options galore.

[pelifan]

I come in piece

Seeing how #2 is an option, how would you guys feel collectively about a Monroe/Jackson/18' pick for Whiteside trade?

Give us Goran back, I miss having competent play from the PG position

I was actually thinking of a three team trade a couple days ago that went something like this...
Suns get-
Boogie Cousins
Goran Dragic

Heat get-
Greg Monroe
Omer Asik
Jared Dudley
both Miami picks back

Pelicans get-
Hassan Whiteside
Dion Waiters
2018 Bucks pick

If the Heat decided to rebuild I thought it made some sense.

Dear lord that's a good return for expiring Cousins. I don't see it for Phx really, and the value isn't great for Miami. I personally think the best deal for Whiteside

Chandler
Dudley
Both Miami picks returned
Bucks pick

for

Whiteside.

Phx holds on to the upcoming capspace and Miami gets to fully tank instead of treadmilling. I think you could even tinker with this for the Heat to take Brandon Knight instead of Dudley. With the contracts they've handed out they are likely capped out for the forseable future anyway. Or you could just pull the Bucks pick.

IDK, might be too much value for MIA, but I feel like I'm pretty close to fair here.

[KLEON]

Question for you guys who are close to the Suns front office. Are the Suns going to make a trade for a PG anytime soon because although Ulis has been playing well of recent he's not a starting PG and for the life of me,why did they sign Mike James. He clearly doesn't have a clue on how to play PG

[sunsbum]

Whiteside = assets, and can't stay healthy. Jordan does he really help us get better? If I'm not mistaken isn't Cousins a UFA? I'd be knocking on his door at 11:59:59 with Devin Booker. He instantly makes us a playoff team.

[BobbieL]

OK. MIlwaukee is interested in Deandre Jordan. They would like to put together a big three of Giannis, Bledsoe, and Jordan, which is pretty potent. But they have to give up something to get it. DJ is an expiring BUT they would have his Bird rights and it is the type of place DJ would like to go.

Phoenix steps in to facilitate. The Clippers need a big man, and if it is an expiring, they would love to have his Bird rights.

Clippers out: Deandre Jordan, Lou Williams
Clippers in: Greg Monroe, Kris Middleton, Malcom Brogdon

Milwaukee out: Jabari Parker, Kriss Middleton, Malcom Brogdon.
Milwaukee in: Deandre Jordan, Troy Daniels

Suns out: Greg Monroe, Troy Daniels
Suns in: Jabari Parker, Lou Williams

Salaries work. Remember that Parker is a FA this summer, and Milwaukee has a tough decision about keeping him. They have typically moved on if its doubtful (Brandon Knight). Lou Williams is also an expiring.

Quite honestly, I think would rather use Monroe/Daniels for George Hill than Jabari Parker. I just am not sure where Parker fits in with the Suns as the Suns have young forwards already. Granted, not turning down talent, I get that.. Sweet Lou is not your ideal PG type player. Hill would be a solid PG for the next 1.5 years, off the books in summer of 2019 with Dudley and Chandler and also would help out not only Booker but the other players like Warren, Chriss and Bender as a facilitator.

I do think this trade is what the Clippers and Bucks would want though. Clippers would get two young players to build around and an expiring contract in Monroe so that works for them. For the Bucks, the same - though Middleton might be a lot to give up but you have to give to get.

I can live with both of those types of deals..
Lou is not a pg. He is a 2. Neither Bender or Chriss seem to be stepping up. Parker is a better prospect than both of them anyway (when healty). I am not letting those two keep me from improving that position.

If you really want Hill, follow up this trade with a Chriss (or Bender) plus Lou for Hill trade, and you have what you want. Or better yet, Dudley, Lou and a pick for Hill.

Options galore.

[pelifan]

Whiteside = assets, and can't stay healthy. Jordan does he really help us get better? If I'm not mistaken isn't Cousins a UFA? I'd be knocking on his door at 11:59:59 with Devin Booker. He instantly makes us a playoff team.

I'll be in the room closing the deal with my guy Anthony Davis. We'll order room service for you guys though.