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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 50 hours and counting... 

Post#341 » by King4Day » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:07 am

ChrisInAZ wrote:
GoranTragic wrote:
ChrisInAZ wrote:
We went after Aaron Gordon?

Why is it "dead" now?


Magic FO thinks his trade value is "higher" after the dunk contest :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


Thank you for the point illustration guys


A slew of pages back, one of our insiders noted that we were talking to Orlando about him. It didn't sound like they were interested anyway but after the dunk contest, his value went up and ultimately took him off the market (if he was ever on it).
Now we're hearing Orlando is not trading any of their remaining young guys so it's a moot point :-/
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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 45 hours and counting... 

Post#342 » by Sunsdeuce » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:12 am

[tweet]https://twitter.com/wojverticalnba/status/699763164213309440[/tweet]

No Frye for us.
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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 45 hours and counting... 

Post#343 » by harshey1388 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:13 am

Sunsdeuce wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/wojverticalnba/status/699763164213309440[/tweet]

No Frye for us.



Wonder what the Clips are giving up.
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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 45 hours and counting... 

Post#344 » by thamadkant » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:16 am

letsgosuns wrote:There is a lot more at stake here than getting value back for Markieff. I think this is about self-respect as an organization. Markieff has done so many bad things starting last year with him and his brother's felony aggravated assault charges and the Suns have done nothing. The Morris brothers were never internally punished for anything. After everything they did, there has been zero consequences. This is the opposite of holding players accountable for their actions.

Sarver and McDonough look like they have no backbone. Blake Griffin, who is a true superstar and MVP caliber player, received swift internal punishment from the Clippers owner for an off the court incident. Not only that, but the team released a public statement saying how this is not the kind of organization they are.

Did Marcus or Markieff ever get punished for their actions in supposedly beating up that guy? No. Did Marcus getting suspended for verbally abusing Hornacek on National TV? No. Did the Morris brothers get punished for destroying the fan base publicly last year after the Suns got destroyed by the Spurs? No. Did Markieff get punished for bad mouthing the organization all Summer and demanding a trade? No. The league fined him but the Suns did nothing. Markieff received a two game suspension for throwing a towel at Hornacek. Robert Horry threw a towel at Ainge and was traded days later. Did the Suns come out and punish Markieff for attacking Goodwin during a game? No. Zero accountability. At this point, Markieff practically can do whatever he wants (including tanking games) and the Suns will smile and say this guy is great. He is our leader. We love Markieff and he can do no wrong and he is the greatest guy in the league. What a joke. Thanks a lot Mr. Sarver and Mr. McDonough. You guys sure know how to run an NBA franchise.



+1

In any corporation, big corporations, no matter how good an employee or an executive is... if they have become broken the corporate's core values, they get the sack.


If the Suns were competing for a CHAMPIONSHIP and Morris is critical to that, you may slightly put up with it.
But the Suns are terrible and have young impressionable players on the team, keeping Morris MAY be sending a message that "its OK to be unprofessional, as long as you can back it up on the court".... WHICH is detrimental to a winning culture.

Popovic or the Spurs would of waived Morris by now.

Ty Lawson was a 15/10 PG.... but due to his continuous off-court issues, he was sent packing for a very little return. Because Nuggets do not want someone like that influencing the rest or being a disgrace to the corporation.

You are paid to be a professional, they need to act like one.


Morris may be talented, but he has no place in the Suns team and where the Suns are.

On a team that needs his talent and can take a risk on his character in order to maximise their championship chances... then that might be a high-risk high reward situation. The alpha star on that team might be able to control Morris.

I'd rather have Dennis Rodman and his crazy off court antics over Morris... because atleast I know Rodman would put 100% effort on the court and NOT start a fight with young players in the team.
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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 45 hours and counting... 

Post#345 » by TeamTragic » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:16 am

harshey1388 wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/wojverticalnba/status/699763164213309440[/tweet]

No Frye for us.


Wonder what the Clips are giving up.


Great. We are not moving backwards.
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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 45 hours and counting... 

Post#346 » by GetYourPHX » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:16 am

harshey1388 wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/wojverticalnba/status/699763164213309440[/tweet]
No Frye for us.

Wonder what the Clips are giving up.


Gotta be Lance. He has a team option next year and the Magic are clearing the books.
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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 45 hours and counting... 

Post#347 » by Sunsdeuce » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:19 am

harshey1388 wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/wojverticalnba/status/699763164213309440[/tweet]

No Frye for us.



Wonder what the Clips are giving up.


[tweet]https://twitter.com/wojverticalnba/status/699764678965260288[/tweet]


[tweet]https://twitter.com/wojverticalnba/status/699764463185096704[/tweet]
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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 45 hours and counting... 

Post#348 » by thamadkant » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:19 am

As I've mentioned earlier about Gordon..

He was never on the market IMO... I stated that he was too young and high ceiling to give up on.


A day or two later, Harris gets traded....
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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 45 hours and counting... 

Post#349 » by Qwigglez » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:25 am

Orlando doing a good job of cleaning house. Getting rid of Tobias was solid and doesn't warrant a pick to be included. I still feel like Kieff is worth a pick mostly because of how cheap his contract is. Just to put it in perspective for next season, the cap will be at 92mil and Kieff is only paid 8mil. Add 3 rookie contracts and that puts a salary of maybe 15mil for 4 guys, leaving 77mil for the rest of a roster. For a guy that has put up 20/7 over his last 5 games, thats pretty damn good value, and McD should continue pressing a high demand.
If nothing happens, I'm fine with that too. Chieff Kieff for tank commander is working well for us. We virtually gain nothing by trading Kieff before the deadline as opposed to holding him until the summer.
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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 45 hours and counting... 

Post#350 » by Sunsdeuce » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:30 am

[tweet]https://twitter.com/wojverticalnba/status/699765677738094592[/tweet]

Doc Rivers is horrible as a GM. It's comical.
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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 45 hours and counting... 

Post#351 » by bwgood77 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:33 am

GetYourPHX wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:There is a lot more at stake here than getting value back for Markieff. I think this is about self-respect as an organization. Markieff has done so many bad things starting last year with him and his brother's felony aggravated assault charges and the Suns have done nothing. The Morris brothers were never internally punished for anything. After everything they did, there has been zero consequences. This is the opposite of holding players accountable for their actions.

Sarver and McDonough look like they have no backbone. Blake Griffin, who is a true superstar and MVP caliber player, received swift internal punishment from the Clippers owner for an off the court incident. Not only that, but the team released a public statement saying how this is not the kind of organization they are.

Did Marcus or Markieff ever get punished for their actions in supposedly beating up that guy? No. Did Marcus getting suspended for verbally abusing Hornacek on National TV? No. Did the Morris brothers get punished for destroying the fan base publicly last year after the Suns got destroyed by the Spurs? No. Did Markieff get punished for bad mouthing the organization all Summer and demanding a trade? No. The league fined him but the Suns did nothing. Markieff received a two game suspension for throwing a towel at Hornacek. Robert Horry threw a towel at Ainge and was traded days later. Did the Suns come out and punish Markieff for attacking Goodwin during a game? No. Zero accountability. At this point, Markieff practically can do whatever he wants (including tanking games) and the Suns will smile and say this guy is great. He is our leader. We love Markieff and he can do no wrong and he is the greatest guy in the league. What a joke. Thanks a lot Mr. Sarver and Mr. McDonough. You guys sure know how to run an NBA franchise.


I think fans really need to cool it on the assault charge stuff. First - no one even knows what happened that day. Let the legal process work itself out before you judge. The whole situation surrounding the case is really sketchy. There are almost no witnesses and even the person who got assaulted is on record saying "he's not sure" whether Kieff and Marcus were involved. Why should the Suns punish their players when it hasn't been proven that they've done anything wrong?

Second, and maybe I'll catch some flak for this, but I agree with Kieff that the Suns negotiated the Mo Bro's contract in bad faith. Maybe I'm too empathetic, but the Twins gave us a discount in order to play together. Their agent **** up by not getting a no-trade clause, but I honestly understand where Kieff is coming from. Trading his brother was a questionable move by the front office that went contrary to a wink-nudge term of those contracts.

Third, and this is going to sound like I'm insulting you which really isn't my intention, but I'm guessing you never played organized sports. The throwing the towel stuff, getting into it with Archie, that stuff just happens on sports teams. It happened on my teams back in High School, and it even happens on the rec teams I play on now. Sports bring out a lot of emotion in people and I really don't think Kieff has crossed the line too far yet.

Has Kieff been overly emotional? Yes. Does he need to rein it in? Yes.

But none of that changes the fact that he's a good player on a good contract. Successful franchises find a way to get the most out of their talent, and the Suns are failing at that with Kieff. Time to put the onus on the FO to take care of their boys - it's the only way we're going to be successful long term.


I somewhat agree with much of what you say, but as far as the assault goes, we had a witness of the assault posting on this board. Was a regular poster. He talked about it before it came out in the news. But apparently Markieff didn't do any of the assaulting, just held back the crowd and made sure they didn't take pics.

I always thought Marcus was the big problem and that Markieff was more reasonable and said a lot of the other stuff you mentioned earlier, but he has proven me wrong and been extremely unprofessional in the way he came into the season. I don't care if you feel you got screwed over or whatever. Put your big boy pants on and deal with it. The guy pretty much destroyed our season.
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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 45 hours and counting... 

Post#352 » by PassWarden » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:33 am

Marqueef Morris is still a Phoenix Sun? For shame McDonough, for shame.
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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 45 hours and counting... 

Post#353 » by bwgood77 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:36 am

Sunsdeuce wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/wojverticalnba/status/699763164213309440[/tweet]

No Frye for us.


He's perfect for the Clips. Paul will like playing with him.
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The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 45 hours and... 

Post#354 » by nevetsov » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:37 am

For the Magic, trading Frye makes sense now. Ilyasova can fill his minutes and they could do with some SF depth. May as well kick the tyres on a former stud like Stephenson.

Payton, Jennings, Napier
Fournier, Oladipo, Watson
Hezonja, ??
Gordon, Ilyasova, Nicholson, Frye
Vujevic, Smith, Dedmon

Going to be a fun team to watch.
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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 45 hours and... 

Post#355 » by Sunsdeuce » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:43 am

nevetsov wrote:For the Magic, trading Frye makes sense now. Ilyasova can fill his minutes and they could do with some SF depth. May as well kick the tyres on a former stud like Stephenson.

Payton, Jennings, Napier
Fournier, Oladipo, Watson
Hezonja, ??
Gordon, Ilyasova, Nicholson, Frye
Vujevic, Smith, Dedmon

Going to be a fun team to watch.


Lol, not so much.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/wojverticalnba/status/699769909765664768[/tweet]
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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 45 hours and... 

Post#356 » by Kerrsed » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:46 am

Sunsdeuce wrote:
nevetsov wrote:For the Magic, trading Frye makes sense now. Ilyasova can fill his minutes and they could do with some SF depth. May as well kick the tyres on a former stud like Stephenson.

Payton, Jennings, Napier
Fournier, Oladipo, Watson
Hezonja, ??
Gordon, Ilyasova, Nicholson, Frye
Vujevic, Smith, Dedmon

Going to be a fun team to watch.


Lol, not so much.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/wojverticalnba/status/699769909765664768[/tweet]


I would. Hell, i'd be on the phone right now offering up Morris for Stephenson/LAC 1st.
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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 45 hours and counting... 

Post#357 » by GetYourPHX » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:47 am

bwgood77 wrote:
GetYourPHX wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:There is a lot more at stake here than getting value back for Markieff. I think this is about self-respect as an organization. Markieff has done so many bad things starting last year with him and his brother's felony aggravated assault charges and the Suns have done nothing. The Morris brothers were never internally punished for anything. After everything they did, there has been zero consequences. This is the opposite of holding players accountable for their actions.

Sarver and McDonough look like they have no backbone. Blake Griffin, who is a true superstar and MVP caliber player, received swift internal punishment from the Clippers owner for an off the court incident. Not only that, but the team released a public statement saying how this is not the kind of organization they are.

Did Marcus or Markieff ever get punished for their actions in supposedly beating up that guy? No. Did Marcus getting suspended for verbally abusing Hornacek on National TV? No. Did the Morris brothers get punished for destroying the fan base publicly last year after the Suns got destroyed by the Spurs? No. Did Markieff get punished for bad mouthing the organization all Summer and demanding a trade? No. The league fined him but the Suns did nothing. Markieff received a two game suspension for throwing a towel at Hornacek. Robert Horry threw a towel at Ainge and was traded days later. Did the Suns come out and punish Markieff for attacking Goodwin during a game? No. Zero accountability. At this point, Markieff practically can do whatever he wants (including tanking games) and the Suns will smile and say this guy is great. He is our leader. We love Markieff and he can do no wrong and he is the greatest guy in the league. What a joke. Thanks a lot Mr. Sarver and Mr. McDonough. You guys sure know how to run an NBA franchise.


I think fans really need to cool it on the assault charge stuff. First - no one even knows what happened that day. Let the legal process work itself out before you judge. The whole situation surrounding the case is really sketchy. There are almost no witnesses and even the person who got assaulted is on record saying "he's not sure" whether Kieff and Marcus were involved. Why should the Suns punish their players when it hasn't been proven that they've done anything wrong?

Second, and maybe I'll catch some flak for this, but I agree with Kieff that the Suns negotiated the Mo Bro's contract in bad faith. Maybe I'm too empathetic, but the Twins gave us a discount in order to play together. Their agent **** up by not getting a no-trade clause, but I honestly understand where Kieff is coming from. Trading his brother was a questionable move by the front office that went contrary to a wink-nudge term of those contracts.

Third, and this is going to sound like I'm insulting you which really isn't my intention, but I'm guessing you never played organized sports. The throwing the towel stuff, getting into it with Archie, that stuff just happens on sports teams. It happened on my teams back in High School, and it even happens on the rec teams I play on now. Sports bring out a lot of emotion in people and I really don't think Kieff has crossed the line too far yet.

Has Kieff been overly emotional? Yes. Does he need to rein it in? Yes.

But none of that changes the fact that he's a good player on a good contract. Successful franchises find a way to get the most out of their talent, and the Suns are failing at that with Kieff. Time to put the onus on the FO to take care of their boys - it's the only way we're going to be successful long term.


I somewhat agree with much of what you say, but as far as the assault goes, we had a witness of the assault posting on this board. Was a regular poster. He talked about it before it came out in the news. But apparently Markieff didn't do any of the assaulting, just held back the crowd and made sure they didn't take pics.

I always thought Marcus was the big problem and that Markieff was more reasonable and said a lot of the other stuff you mentioned earlier, but he has proven me wrong and been extremely unprofessional in the way he came into the season. I don't care if you feel you got screwed over or whatever. Put your big boy pants on and deal with it. The guy pretty much destroyed our season.


Hmmmm, that's interesting, because all of the witnesses interviewed by the police minus Hood and his girlfriend said they couldn't identify any of the men in the fight. I guess RealGM has more info than Phoenix PD?

Seems like two 6'9" twins would be pretty identifiable to me.

Additionally, now that I'm looking into it, Hood himself said in a phone call to Mom Morris that Markieff wasn't involved in the assault.

This message board is just hoping and scratching for any reason to be pissed off.
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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 45 hours and counting... 

Post#358 » by Sunsdeuce » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:48 am

Dream team.....Lance Stephenson + Markieff on the same team. do it Ryan!!
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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 45 hours and counting... 

Post#359 » by Blkbrd671 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:54 am

With the acquisition of Harris, and perception wise getting us closer to contention, our board is a lot more willing to give up a first for Kieff. I still think there is a chance we acquire him
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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 45 hours and counting... 

Post#360 » by bwgood77 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:00 am

GetYourPHX wrote:Hmmmm, that's interesting, because all of the witnesses interviewed by the police minus Hood and his girlfriend said they couldn't identify any of the men in the fight. I guess RealGM has more info than Phoenix PD?

Seems like two 6'9" twins would be pretty identifiable to me.

Additionally, now that I'm looking into it, Hood himself said in a phone call to Mom Morris that Markieff wasn't involved in the assault.

This message board is just hoping and scratching for any reason to be pissed off.


I'm just telling you what was posted here before it was in the news. I don't put a lot of stock in insider info, but this was clearly posted here before anything came out about it.

So you are thinking there is a chance they may not have been involved in a fight at all?

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