The 2016 Offseason Thread

[NTB]

I think Brandon Roy / Manu Ginobili thing was spot on. Booker has a really good court vision and playmaking ability. He can play pick and roll really well and I saw Booker throwing pocket passes like Steve Nash a lot. Also Booker is not just a "shooter" we know that. I think we will have our next star in Booker after Amar'e.

I don't think they are very good comps, and they are both great players at what they do, and I think Booker can be just as or more valuable, but I think he's a different kind of player. Not sure who is best comp is or that we particularly need one. He's definitely closer to those guys than Harden is to Magic or Bird as someone a couple of posts above you suggested though.

What are your comparisons?

[bwgood77]

I see more Allan Houston/Michael Redd with a lead guard mentality. Saying Booker’s floor is an All-Star is going too far IMO, only KAT deserves that projection. Ginobli was basically a gritter more team oriented two-way version of OKC Harden, arguably the most technically gifted passing 2 guard ever. his court vision was Magic/Bird level he could routinely nutmeg defenders, pull out the shammgo/fakeouts and basically pioneeered eurostep. Roy was looking like the second coming o Hardaway, shame areer wasn't ended prematurely and was held back playing in the slowest paced offense, he was a borderline superstar in 2008-2009 we didn't even get to witness his prime. I don't really see the stylistic similarities either, of course Booker can still diversify his game but Roy was different not really a pure shooter like Booker and a 4 year college player so he was more seasoned entering the league. Whereas Booker is an average athlete at Best, Roy was underrated he had hops and could posterize when he wanted to. He was a midrange maestro with his arsenal of fadeaway/pullups/stepbacks could break down his man with heky jerky stop no go deception, a more acrobatic finisher who could switch hands mid air

Those are great comp too, I loved Houston's game and Redd was really fun to watch. Great in isolations in the high post, Booker can be like him in that area.

When I said that Booker is gonna be at least an All Star I was referring to an occasional All Star like Korver or Deng has been. It would be very difficult to believe that he is not gonna be an All Star some season in the next 10-12 years because he is so advanced at his age and his demeanour is amazing. That is his floor IMO.

Yeah he may not be a perennial shooin, but he will definitely get some selections due to the dearth at the position in the West besides Klay., there is more depth out East but no one is dethroning Harden any time . McCollum will be Book's main challenger

Well I don't think they distinguish between PGs and SGs in all star voting so he's up against all the point guards too.

[TheFire]

I'm absolutely ok if we finish bottom 3 this year, but somehow I feel like we won't finish that low. Apparently, next year's draft is supposed to be a lot better than this year's. I would love to add another top-end talent to supply what we already have.

[bwgood77]

I think Brandon Roy / Manu Ginobili thing was spot on. Booker has a really good court vision and playmaking ability. He can play pick and roll really well and I saw Booker throwing pocket passes like Steve Nash a lot. Also Booker is not just a "shooter" we know that. I think we will have our next star in Booker after Amar'e.

I don't think they are very good comps, and they are both great players at what they do, and I think Booker can be just as or more valuable, but I think he's a different kind of player. Not sure who is best comp is or that we particularly need one. He's definitely closer to those guys than Harden is to Magic or Bird as someone a couple of posts above you suggested though.

What are your comparisons?

I don't know. I was just looking at Redd and Steve Smith's #s and their peak years were maybe on par from where I think he could get, but I think he will be a better 3 pt shooter than either. Allan Houston would be ok, but I think he'll be a better passer.

He will be a lot better long range shooter than Roy who never shot above 37.7%, but his passing skills look like they could be similar. Ginobili might not be too bad of a comp, but it doesn't feel right. I think he will be more of a pure shooter than a slasher like Ginobili was. Ginobili did have some good shooting years though.

Honestly the more I look at it and think about it, it's probably Ray Allen if he has the work ethic I think he does.

[bwgood77]

I'm absolutely ok if we finish bottom 3 this year, but somehow I feel like we won't finish that low. Apparently, next year's draft is supposed to be a lot better than this year's. I would love to add another top-end talent to supply what we already have.

The top 4 or so are really highly publicized. Two are small forwards, one a PF and one a PG. You never know how the season will play out. At least one of them has had some major injury issues in the past.

[sunsbum]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/rexchapman/status/752731253883871232[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/rexchapman/status/752347470751862784[/tweet]

Lol, does anyone actually care about chapmans opinion after he got caught robbing an apple store multiple times? I saw someine wearing his jersey at a summer league game and just about tinkled my pants.

Is there no weight to the opinion of someone who played 12 years in the NBA? Dude must not know a thing about a basketball because he made some poor decisions in other areas in his life.

Rex chapman proclaims devin booker is going to be a good player. Hold the phone!!!!!!!!!!!! Hes a clown.

[JMac1]

Thunder should take what they can get, you'd think they'd have learned already. I guess they want to go four for four. Harden, Jackson, KD and now Westbrook. Sometimes it is better to sell your stock before it has zero value.

You guys are in trouble. Nobody not named the Lakers are trading for him and the Lakers won't because he is a FA next year.

We just lost a top-3 player in the NBA and we're replacing him with Andre Roberson. Anyone who thinks we're not in some level of trouble needs to have their head examined.

But the fact that you lumped a guy traded well before his RFA, a guy traded in the middle of his RFA season, and a guy who walked in free agency together in "selling your stock before it has zero value" doesn't give me a ton of confidence in that opinion.

There are offers on the table for him, whether you think "nobody not named the Lakers are trading for him" or not. But they'll only trade him if he says he's gone. He's not exactly one to hide his feelings. They'll know if he's seriously considering other teams in FA.

Yeah, I wouldn't listen to that. I think there is a pretty good chance Russ stays.

If you want to make him feel good.....No way. If you didn't learn anything with Durant leaving, then I don't know what to say. But hey, I guess you rather drive your Lamborghini on Main St in Oklahoma rather than Rodeo Dr in Beverly Hills.

Dipo and Adams or LA I'll take that bet

[NavLDO]

The Thunder's situation reminds me a little bit of the 2010 offseason for the Suns. Different circumstances but the overall bottom line is similar. Going from a title contender to a team just fighting for a playoff spot because one of your superstars leaves.

The Thunder have to look at it realistically and say can we put players around Westbrook through trade or free agency that brings us back into title contention. If the answer is yes, then it is worth holding onto him and hoping to get those players. However, if the answer is we are not sure we can get another top ten player, then you have to think about trading him. Since Westbrook will be an unrestricted free agent, you do not want to lose him for nothing like Durant. If you can get a monster package for him, something like one of those Nets picks that Boston owns, you have to consider it. This upcoming draft is supposed to be awesome and people are predicting the Nets might be the worst team in basketball, so that pick could be top-5.

Btw, I would trade Tucker for any kind of pick in the first round whether it is protected or not protected. I doubt the Suns organization would though. They love Tucker.

They're taking calls, but from what I've heard it would take a pretty significant overpay.

They think Dipo is a 20ppg guy this year. Whether that's true or not IDK. If he is, he and Adams are a pretty good tandem to put next to Russ—with more usage Adams is going to open some eyes.

To the point of the thread, I don't think the Suns would give up what it would take to get Russ, and I don't think the Thunder would take it.

Thunder should take what they can get, you'd think they'd have learned already. I guess they want to go four for four. Harden, Jackson, KD and now Westbrook. Sometimes it is better to sell your stock before it has zero value.

You guys are in trouble. Nobody not named the Lakers are trading for him and the Lakers won't because he is a FA next year.

Now now...it'd be more like 1 for 5; the just got value back for a declining Ibaka, and young talent at that. How much better is 20% than 0%??? IDK, but the fact that they traded Ibaka makes me believe they'd be willing to trade Westbrook; what value they get back, IDK, but it appears they ARE learning.

And didn't Durant make some remarks within the last year about how he wanted to stay with OKC, or was that only Westbrook.

Oh, and BTW, 46-37 at the half?!?!? I was traveling all day, so just now saw the score about 10 minutes ago...it's really ok to put a team away; there's really no need for these dramatics!! I know it's SL...but COME ON!!!

[thamadkant]

Thunder should take what they can get, you'd think they'd have learned already. I guess they want to go four for four. Harden, Jackson, KD and now Westbrook. Sometimes it is better to sell your stock before it has zero value.

You guys are in trouble. Nobody not named the Lakers are trading for him and the Lakers won't because he is a FA next year.

We just lost a top-3 player in the NBA and we're replacing him with Andre Roberson. Anyone who thinks we're not in some level of trouble needs to have their head examined.

But the fact that you lumped a guy traded well before his RFA, a guy traded in the middle of his RFA season, and a guy who walked in free agency together in "selling your stock before it has zero value" doesn't give me a ton of confidence in that opinion.

There are offers on the table for him, whether you think "nobody not named the Lakers are trading for him" or not. But they'll only trade him if he says he's gone. He's not exactly one to hide his feelings. They'll know if he's seriously considering other teams in FA.

Yeah, I wouldn't listen to that. I think there is a pretty good chance Russ stays.

Mediocre team in a small town with limited heritage?


Westbrook had higher chances of staying if Durant was there. Because they could make history and win Oklahoma Thunder's very first ring.... That hope is dashed now. Especially since stars are taking the easy route and joining stars in bigger cities.
Tim Duncan and Dirk Nowitski are old school that they stayed on their teams that arent classified as a main exposure city like NY, LA or rich heritage teams like Celtics and 76ers.

Thunder has about 10 percent chance they keep Westbrook after next season.... Winning the ring can boost that to 50 percent....

[JMac1]

We just lost a top-3 player in the NBA and we're replacing him with Andre Roberson. Anyone who thinks we're not in some level of trouble needs to have their head examined.

But the fact that you lumped a guy traded well before his RFA, a guy traded in the middle of his RFA season, and a guy who walked in free agency together in "selling your stock before it has zero value" doesn't give me a ton of confidence in that opinion.

There are offers on the table for him, whether you think "nobody not named the Lakers are trading for him" or not. But they'll only trade him if he says he's gone. He's not exactly one to hide his feelings. They'll know if he's seriously considering other teams in FA.

Yeah, I wouldn't listen to that. I think there is a pretty good chance Russ stays.

Mediocre team in a small town with limited heritage?


Westbrook had higher chances of staying if Durant was there. Because they could make history and win Oklahoma Thunder's very first ring.... That hope is dashed now. Especially since stars are taking the easy route and joining stars in bigger cities.
Tim Duncan and Dirk Nowitski are old school that they stayed on their teams that arent classified as a main exposure city like NY, LA or rich heritage teams like Celtics and 76ers.

Thunder has about 10 percent chance they keep Westbrook after next season.... Winning the ring can boost that to 50 percent....

That has nothing to do with it, they just weren't socialized in this country.

[OGBAH]

wasn't T.Jones supposed to get 18 mil a year

[thamadkant]

Yeah, I wouldn't listen to that. I think there is a pretty good chance Russ stays.

Mediocre team in a small town with limited heritage?


Westbrook had higher chances of staying if Durant was there. Because they could make history and win Oklahoma Thunder's very first ring.... That hope is dashed now. Especially since stars are taking the easy route and joining stars in bigger cities.
Tim Duncan and Dirk Nowitski are old school that they stayed on their teams that arent classified as a main exposure city like NY, LA or rich heritage teams like Celtics and 76ers.

Thunder has about 10 percent chance they keep Westbrook after next season.... Winning the ring can boost that to 50 percent....

That has nothing to do with it, they just weren't socialized in this country.

There is an element of them being "old school".
They both dont part take in the social media circus. Both avoid media coverage when they can.
Both rarely have any commotions when they are up for new contracts... It looks like they pre negotiate in advance.... Non of these dining out and courting circus at midnight of FA period.

Thats old school mentality... Things are done Behind the scenes.


Sure both not being americans is a factor too.


But we also have to look at their agents.

It seems Agents linked to the media or sponsors are Cancerous for NBA teams trying to keep their players or atleast trying to negotiate in a formal non circus manner.


Lets face it... Agents that have links to sports media and sponsors they leak information or use off the court influence to sway players to bigger deals or leaving for higher exposure cities. Are thry doing a good job for their clients??? Sure.. For those clients that seek those things.

But some players... And there are others besides Duncan and Nowitski.... That just wants to make decisions based on on court matter.

To be honest... Westbrook is actually pretty tame on the social media circuit and sponsorship appearances... He dresses outrageously hip and trendy but you rarely see him comment on social media or speak for sponsorship. But he is damn competitive and he would enjoy living in cities with more eccentric environments than Oklahoma.. So those things could be the swaying factors to where he would sign next.

[sunsbum]

booker reminds me of westbrook, what do you think jmac?

[bigfoot]

Kind of curious about this point-five mentality Watson is talking about. I'm guessing it means he wants all five players to play like a point guard and be willing passers. Any other ideas?

[dremill24]

Kind of curious about this point-five mentality Watson is talking about. I'm guessing it means he wants all five players to play like a point guard and be willing passers. Any other ideas?

Its a kind of mantra/mindset he got from the Spurs. They'd call the style Point Five to encourage a decision-making process that takes no more than a half-second. You get the ball, you have .5 seconds to decide if youre going to shoot, pass, or drive.

[JMac1]

Mediocre team in a small town with limited heritage?


Westbrook had higher chances of staying if Durant was there. Because they could make history and win Oklahoma Thunder's very first ring.... That hope is dashed now. Especially since stars are taking the easy route and joining stars in bigger cities.
Tim Duncan and Dirk Nowitski are old school that they stayed on their teams that arent classified as a main exposure city like NY, LA or rich heritage teams like Celtics and 76ers.

Thunder has about 10 percent chance they keep Westbrook after next season.... Winning the ring can boost that to 50 percent....

That has nothing to do with it, they just weren't socialized in this country.

There is an element of them being "old school".
They both dont part take in the social media circus. Both avoid media coverage when they can.
Both rarely have any commotions when they are up for new contracts... It looks like they pre negotiate in advance.... Non of these dining out and courting circus at midnight of FA period.

Thats old school mentality... Things are done Behind the scenes.


Sure both not being americans is a factor too.


But we also have to look at their agents.

It seems Agents linked to the media or sponsors are Cancerous for NBA teams trying to keep their players or atleast trying to negotiate in a formal non circus manner.


Lets face it... Agents that have links to sports media and sponsors they leak information or use off the court influence to sway players to bigger deals or leaving for higher exposure cities. Are thry doing a good job for their clients??? Sure.. For those clients that seek those things.

But some players... And there are others besides Duncan and Nowitski.... That just wants to make decisions based on on court matter.

To be honest... Westbrook is actually pretty tame on the social media circuit and sponsorship appearances... He dresses outrageously hip and trendy but you rarely see him comment on social media or speak for sponsorship. But he is damn competitive and he would enjoy living in cities with more eccentric environments than Oklahoma.. So those things could be the swaying factors to where he would sign next.

The old school way wasn't by choice back in the day, they just did not have social media; so you can't say it was the personality of the old school players that kept everything quiet. It was the absence of social media, not a quieter disposition of athletes. Old school player would have been just as loud as the new school players if they had the forum to do it, see Dennis Rodman or George Gervin or Clyde Frazier or Darryl Dawkins, Allen Iverson, Charles Barkley,......shid, the show the ABA athletes use to put on!?! Loud loud loud. man those were some of the loudest people around during the 70's 80's and 90's.......It's a culture thing with Timmy and Dirk.

[Midnight_Suns]

Lol, does anyone actually care about chapmans opinion after he got caught robbing an apple store multiple times? I saw someine wearing his jersey at a summer league game and just about tinkled my pants.

Is there no weight to the opinion of someone who played 12 years in the NBA? Dude must not know a thing about a basketball because he made some poor decisions in other areas in his life.

Rex chapman proclaims devin booker is going to be a good player. Hold the phone!!!!!!!!!!!! Hes a clown.

Ahh, I should've realized that "Suns have some players" meant "Devin Booker is good".

[bwgood77]

We just lost a top-3 player in the NBA and we're replacing him with Andre Roberson. Anyone who thinks we're not in some level of trouble needs to have their head examined.

But the fact that you lumped a guy traded well before his RFA, a guy traded in the middle of his RFA season, and a guy who walked in free agency together in "selling your stock before it has zero value" doesn't give me a ton of confidence in that opinion.

There are offers on the table for him, whether you think "nobody not named the Lakers are trading for him" or not. But they'll only trade him if he says he's gone. He's not exactly one to hide his feelings. They'll know if he's seriously considering other teams in FA.

Yeah, I wouldn't listen to that. I think there is a pretty good chance Russ stays.

If you want to make him feel good.....No way. If you didn't learn anything with Durant leaving, then I don't know what to say. But hey, I guess you rather drive your Lamborghini on Main St in Oklahoma rather than Rodeo Dr in Beverly Hills.

Dipo and Adams or LA I'll take that bet

If he leaves to go to LA it will likely be because he was born and grew up there and was a fan of the Lakers and always dreamed of playing for them and feels he can fill in Kobe's shoes. I think it's more that than driving his Lamborghini in Beverly Hills.

[JMac1]

[img]http://www.refinedguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/79-magic-johnson-fashion-style-fur-coat-best-dressed-athletes.jpg[/img
















Those guy would have eaten social media up.... They didn't have Free Agency like they do now.

You are talking about people who were influenced by Muhammad Ali first hand

[saintEscaton]

Kind of curious about this point-five mentality Watson is talking about. I'm guessing it means he wants all five players to play like a point guard and be willing passers. Any other ideas?

Its a kind of mantra/mindset he got from the Spurs. They'd call the style Point Five to encourage a decision-making process that takes no more than a half-second. You get the ball, you have .5 seconds to decide if youre going to shoot, pass, or drive.

Its really not a relevation. Just another name for Pop's Motion offense that requires every player to read the progressions and take what the D gives them, usually in a 4 out 1 in alignmnent with two interhcangeble bigs and three interhcangeable perimeter players where the ball is swung from strong to weak side or loooped at top. I feel like a lot of fans of up tempo SSOL think the Spurs are really boring because they appear to be so methodical but the system is dependent on improvizational brilliance and requires counters like backfoor cuts, baseline, flares and hand-off screens. to broken plays, Parker was never the floor general ash was but it was amazing to see the selflessness of that team, enver a stagant possesion