2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes

[Skin]

He has one of those weird contacts that pays him less as the years go on. Again, don’t think we want to pay someone off the bench that kind of money. Hield does get scorching hot sometimes, but he does little else IMO. If he was paid less I could see the FO potentially being interested.

At that money i'd rather keep Oubre - at least he's two way.

That's the thing about Oubre..his rep. He is league avg on efficiency scoring, does not pass, and is not really that good of a defender...not really even a plus one. He is ok one on one but otherwise pretty lost. He has a reputation among many that he is a great scorer and defender though. He is an energy guy that has some highlight plays including dunks and blocks, but despite those dunks, his rim finishing is bad. He is empty stats. The best thing about him is the energy and motivating the team...BUT, we look even better right now without him...now maybe our net rtg or whatever isn't better but we are not playing any bottom feeders really. We are moving the ball much better...getting it to the guy with the open or best shot more often...not driving into multiple defenders because you don't see the whole floor. Our defensive rotations are smarter.

Having said all that, I wouldn't trade him for Hield, because he is paid too much for what he does, but if there contractual situations were the same, I'd definitely take Hield over him..he'd be much better for our team with his skillset.

Those are some of the criticisms I got from Magic fans in the past when bringing up Oubre as a year target. Regardless, I think our front office will target him.

Fournier and a swap of 1st round picks next year still a fair offer?

[nevetsov]

At that money i'd rather keep Oubre - at least he's two way.

That's the thing about Oubre..his rep. He is league avg on efficiency scoring, does not pass, and is not really that good of a defender...not really even a plus one. He is ok one on one but otherwise pretty lost. He has a reputation among many that he is a great scorer and defender though. He is an energy guy that has some highlight plays including dunks and blocks, but despite those dunks, his rim finishing is bad. He is empty stats. The best thing about him is the energy and motivating the team...BUT, we look even better right now without him...now maybe our net rtg or whatever isn't better but we are not playing any bottom feeders really. We are moving the ball much better...getting it to the guy with the open or best shot more often...not driving into multiple defenders because you don't see the whole floor. Our defensive rotations are smarter.

Having said all that, I wouldn't trade him for Hield, because he is paid too much for what he does, but if there contractual situations were the same, I'd definitely take Hield over him..he'd be much better for our team with his skillset.

Those are some of the criticisms I got from Magic fans in the past when bringing up Oubre as a year target. Regardless, I think our front office will target him.

Fournier and a swap of 1st round picks next year still a fair offer?

I think so. But people notoriously hate my trades on the T&T board, so what do I know!

[Crives]

So how much cap space would we have assuming:
- Cap stays flat
- we sign Saric to 3 years at ~ 7m per
-decline Franks option (maybe resign to min later)
- sign Baynes with MLE

[Weemsickew14]

At that money i'd rather keep Oubre - at least he's two way.

That's the thing about Oubre..his rep. He is league avg on efficiency scoring, does not pass, and is not really that good of a defender...not really even a plus one. He is ok one on one but otherwise pretty lost. He has a reputation among many that he is a great scorer and defender though. He is an energy guy that has some highlight plays including dunks and blocks, but despite those dunks, his rim finishing is bad. He is empty stats. The best thing about him is the energy and motivating the team...BUT, we look even better right now without him...now maybe our net rtg or whatever isn't better but we are not playing any bottom feeders really. We are moving the ball much better...getting it to the guy with the open or best shot more often...not driving into multiple defenders because you don't see the whole floor. Our defensive rotations are smarter.

Having said all that, I wouldn't trade him for Hield, because he is paid too much for what he does, but if there contractual situations were the same, I'd definitely take Hield over him..he'd be much better for our team with his skillset.

Those are some of the criticisms I got from Magic fans in the past when bringing up Oubre as a year target. Regardless, I think our front office will target him.

Fournier and a swap of 1st round picks next year still a fair offer?

In terms of value, im not sure we are there. Our pick will be higher than the Magic's and Oubre has more value than Fournier. I like the idea of this offer though, but would want Oubre and a 2nd for Fournier and a first if possible, but not sure Magic accept. How do Magic fans view Fournier? I think he would be a great 6th man for us. Still not sure if Suns are looking to move Oubre or not though.

Rubio/Payne/Carter
Booker/Fournier/Vassell?
Mikal/Fournier
Cam/Saric/Draft pick
Ayton/Baynes

[AtheJ415]

What would people think about Josh Richardson? I think Philly is going to eventually blow it up. We currently would be a potential target for Ben Simmons, but I'm not sure we would be willing to pay what he would cost. That said, I think some of the role players could also be on the move if / when that happens.

[AtheJ415]

I'm all for keeping Oubre, but I anticipate he's going to get $16-18 a year. That isn't much cheaper than Hield and Hield is better.

You think Hield at $26.5m/ $24.5m/ $22.5m/ $20.5m isn't much more than Oubre signing a deal in a Covid affected market (likely to impact for years)?

Even if Oubre gets $18m per, that's a sizeable gap to $26.5m for a guy that doesn't play defense. And every dollar is going to count as the cap reduces. I think Hield is fast going to become one nasty contract, especially if he's a non-starter.

Hield averages 19 per game. And Oubre at 18-20 would be not that much more than 22.5-20.5. Also, Hield is a much better player than Oubre. So I don't quite get the commotion. Beal isn't getting traded this season anyways. I was referring to if a team blows it up. I doubt Washington blows it up until they get a full season of Wall and Beal back or are overwhelmed with an offer.

[AtheJ415]

What if we simply traded Oubre for the Magic 1st? Draft Josh Green. Use the space for VanVleet.

[Skin]

That's the thing about Oubre..his rep. He is league avg on efficiency scoring, does not pass, and is not really that good of a defender...not really even a plus one. He is ok one on one but otherwise pretty lost. He has a reputation among many that he is a great scorer and defender though. He is an energy guy that has some highlight plays including dunks and blocks, but despite those dunks, his rim finishing is bad. He is empty stats. The best thing about him is the energy and motivating the team...BUT, we look even better right now without him...now maybe our net rtg or whatever isn't better but we are not playing any bottom feeders really. We are moving the ball much better...getting it to the guy with the open or best shot more often...not driving into multiple defenders because you don't see the whole floor. Our defensive rotations are smarter.

Having said all that, I wouldn't trade him for Hield, because he is paid too much for what he does, but if there contractual situations were the same, I'd definitely take Hield over him..he'd be much better for our team with his skillset.

Those are some of the criticisms I got from Magic fans in the past when bringing up Oubre as a year target. Regardless, I think our front office will target him.

Fournier and a swap of 1st round picks next year still a fair offer?

In terms of value, im not sure we are there. Our pick will be higher than the Magic's and Oubre has more value than Fournier. I like the idea of this offer though, but would want Oubre and a 2nd for Fournier and a first if possible, but not sure Magic accept. How do Magic fans view Fournier? I think he would be a great 6th man for us. Still not sure if Suns are looking to move Oubre or not though.

Rubio/Payne/Carter
Booker/Fournier/Vassell?
Mikal/Fournier
Cam/Saric/Draft pick
Ayton/Baynes

Maybe it could be something like the picks only swap if PHX gains the advantage, if not it turns into 2 2nds. I'm not sure ORL will be better next year. Isaac is out for the whole season. There's some thought we might blow it up and restart a rebuild. Thus, the pawning off of vets like Vuc, Fournier and Gordon. While Gordon's age isn't a problem, it's his position that doubles up on Isaac that is. A rebalance of assets is necessary.

[Skin]

What if we simply traded Oubre for the Magic 1st? Draft Josh Green. Use the space for VanVleet.

Magic can't absorb his contract. Don't think they would be willing to give up a prospect on a long term rookie deal while they are trying to rebuild either.

On the flip of that... what about Fournier for your pick?

[AtheJ415]

What if we simply traded Oubre for the Magic 1st? Draft Josh Green. Use the space for VanVleet.

Magic can't absorb his contract. Don't think they would be willing to give up a prospect on a long term rookie deal while they are trying to rebuild either.

It's not like Oubre is old though. He's capable of being part of a rebuild, and is as good as anybody typically picked at that spot. Only issue really is his contract relative to rookie scale. I just don't think, outside of Gordon, what else really makes sense with Orlando. I disagree with the others on here on Fournier. He's a solid player but we don't need what he brings at the wing spot. We need a playmaking 4, a longterm solution at PG for when Rubio is gone, and as many 3 and D role players as possible outside of those 2.

I also wonder if we could use Oubre and our pick to move up to get a PG who might get taken higher (Hayes, Haliburton), or Vassell, Avdija or Toppin.

[bwgood77]

So how much cap space would we have assuming:
- Cap stays flat
- we sign Saric to 3 years at ~ 7m per
-decline Franks option (maybe resign to min later)
- sign Baynes with MLE

Makes more sense to sign Saric and Baynes and THEN use the MLE for best player available 1-2-3.

[Ghost of Kleine]

What would people think about Josh Richardson? I think Philly is going to eventually blow it up. We currently would be a potential target for Ben Simmons, but I'm not sure we would be willing to pay what he would cost. That said, I think some of the role players could also be on the move if / when that happens.

I've proposed before trading the 10th pick for Richardson and the 22nd and 34th pick. I could live with that, And would even be happy to throw in Okobo and Jerome!
Funny thing though is that statistically when compared to Justin Holiday, He didn't seem that far off!
https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1_hint=Justin+Holiday&player_id1_select=Justin+Holiday&player_id1=holidju01&idx=bbr__players&p1yrfrom=2020&player_id2_hint=Josh+Richardson&player_id2_select

=Josh+Richardson&player_id2=richajo01&idx=bbr__players&p2yrfrom=2020

*** And Holiday could likely be had for between 4-6 million. Whilst Richardson will be making 10 million over the next two years. So as it would save Philly a nice chunk of change in addition to the lottery pick, I'd again only consider the trade under two conditions:
- 1) Extra asset coming back. Such as the 22nd and 34th picks.
22- Draft Grant Riller?
34- Draft Paul Reed?
-2) Devin Vassell is already off the board at 10. But honestly, IF we're trading the 10th pick, I kind of rather have Trevelin Queen with a late 2nd round pick for about 1/10 the price. If you look at the comparison between the two:

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=trevelin-queen--josh-richardson
*** And Queen is an underrated ISO scorer, And logs a ridiculous amount of steals as well.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/advanceprobasketball.com/2020/07/21/trevelin-queen-nba-2020-draft-scouting-report-by-alex-brown/amp/

Strengths

Event Generation: 
Queen has a knack for making plays on the defensive end, whether that manifests as steals, deflections, or blocks. While he is not the quickest to react (or play proactively), Queen can still make a positive impact as an event generator.

Steals: 
Queen generated steals at a very solid rate, and finished with a career 3.9% steal rate. His active hands and ability to play passing lanes are the catalysts.
Jumping Passing Lanes:
Queen’s burst and anticipation make him a major threat to jump passing lanes. He did this at a rather high level this year, and while some of this comes from ball watching, he certainly was able to generate events.Active Hands: Always looking to make a play defensively, Queen’s hands are always moving to attempt to impact the ball handler. This leads to deflections, strips, and blocks. While he can get a bit too handsy at times, active hands are always a plus.

Rotating Rim Protection: 
During Queen’s previous year, he had an excellent 6.2% block rate. While he statistically regressed this year, he still demonstrated the ability to get up in space and make a play on the ball. It is not extremely valuable or game changing, but a nice little bonus to have in a 2-3-wing defender.

Shot Contesting: 
Queen makes a consistent effort to get out on open shooters and not allow easy looks. He does not make “lost cause” judgments, and will make the effort needed to impact shooters.

[Crives]

So how much cap space would we have assuming:
- Cap stays flat
- we sign Saric to 3 years at ~ 7m per
-decline Franks option (maybe resign to min later)
- sign Baynes with MLE

Makes more sense to sign Saric and Baynes and THEN use the MLE for best player available 1-2-3.

If that maximizes cap space then definitely.

I remember reading on the athletic that we would have ~19m in cap space if we dropped Baynes, Saric and Frank and the cap stayed flat.

If we sign Saric to ~7m, I wonder if that would leave us ~12m to play with instead of just the 9m MLE (assuming we resign Baynes later with the room). I think that also requires us to trade our pick, I am not sure if the ~19m accounted for our new draft pick or not (~3.5m at #10)

[BobbieL]

So how much cap space would we have assuming:
- Cap stays flat
- we sign Saric to 3 years at ~ 7m per
-decline Franks option (maybe resign to min later)
- sign Baynes with MLE

Makes more sense to sign Saric and Baynes and THEN use the MLE for best player available 1-2-3.

Saric one year
Baynes one year
MLE is trickier as its multi year so like BWG said - do it the right order and get the best player that fits longer term.

[bigfoot]

I'm not sure why there is all this talk of jockeying for 2021 salary cap space by signing these 1-year contracts. Honestly, the best we might have is $40M in cap space and that is only if we dump our 2020 and 2021 first-round picks and only sign a 1-year MLE this off season. Otherwise, it is more like $30M in cap space. It could even be worse if the overall salary cap drops because of the pandemic.

We're unlikely to get a big name UFA power forward for $30M. Giannis or AD ... no way they are coming here. Don't even mention star RFAs because they will be matched by other teams. Seems like the Knicks always have tons of cap space to go after the big-name free agents and come up empty. Really you need to have an idea for a target free agents in 2021. Who helps our roster?

Also, how do you fill in a bench for Rubio, Booker, Bridges, Cam Johnson, and Ayton in 2021 with only $30M because you've waived rights to Saric, Baynes, and Oubre to get that cap level?

Just sign Saric, Baynes, and Oubre to reasonable deals. Then you have enough decent players and salary to work a variety of trades.

[Slim Charless]

Those are some of the criticisms I got from Magic fans in the past when bringing up Oubre as a year target. Regardless, I think our front office will target him.

Fournier and a swap of 1st round picks next year still a fair offer?

In terms of value, im not sure we are there. Our pick will be higher than the Magic's and Oubre has more value than Fournier. I like the idea of this offer though, but would want Oubre and a 2nd for Fournier and a first if possible, but not sure Magic accept. How do Magic fans view Fournier? I think he would be a great 6th man for us. Still not sure if Suns are looking to move Oubre or not though.

Rubio/Payne/Carter
Booker/Fournier/Vassell?
Mikal/Fournier
Cam/Saric/Draft pick
Ayton/Baynes

Maybe it could be something like the picks only swap if PHX gains the advantage, if not it turns into 2 2nds. I'm not sure ORL will be better next year. Isaac is out for the whole season. There's some thought we might blow it up and restart a rebuild. Thus, the pawning off of vets like Vuc, Fournier and Gordon. While Gordon's age isn't a problem, it's his position that doubles up on Isaac that is. A rebalance of assets is necessary.

This is the big issue here. I think on paper a Heild/KO/Gordon trade works out well for all 3 teams...with a healthy Isaac. He's gone for most, if not all of next year and who knows if he'll even be the same player after having 2 major surgeries on his knees. If anything I'd figure this would lock Gordon into staying in Orlando. I think if we want to go the Oubre--->some other team's PF route the only way is to Chicago for Lauri. Maybe Oubre and our 1st for him and Sato. Or if we use him to trade further up and grab Toppin/Okgongwu

[Walt_Uoob]

I'm not sure why there is all this talk of jockeying for 2021 salary cap space by signing these 1-year contracts. Honestly, the best we might have is $40M in cap space and that is only if we dump our 2020 and 2021 first-round picks and only sign a 1-year MLE this off season. Otherwise, it is more like $30M in cap space. It could even be worse if the overall salary cap drops because of the pandemic.

We're unlikely to get a big name UFA power forward for $30M. Giannis or AD ... no way they are coming here. Don't even mention star RFAs because they will be matched by other teams. Seems like the Knicks always have tons of cap space to go after the big-name free agents and come up empty. Really you need to have an idea for a target free agents in 2021. Who helps our roster?

Also, how do you fill in a bench for Rubio, Booker, Bridges, Cam Johnson, and Ayton in 2021 with only $30M because you've waived rights to Saric, Baynes, and Oubre to get that cap level?

Just sign Saric, Baynes, and Oubre to reasonable deals. Then you have enough decent players and salary to work a variety of trades.

Great points. This is also a reminder of how important it is to build through the draft, because if you can hit on your draft picks you can have affordable talent coming through the pipeline that allows you to trade veterans or let them walk if they're not quite the right fit. If we re-sign all these guys for fear of not being able to replace/upgrade them in free agency, but we can't upgrade those spots through internally developed players either, then we're officially treadmilling.

Sent from my moto x4 using RealGM mobile app

[Slim Charless]

Keep Saric and Carter. Let Kaminsky go. I'm ok with Baynes but James Jones should definitely check if there are other back up centers that might be better or younger. Our biggest signing probably will be a back up guard who can play both guard spots. VanVleet or Bogdan would be the best options. Ibaka would be pretty good but probably will cost too much so maybe Millsap.

Actually the guy i really want us to go after for the back up center position is Marc Gasol. He still plays very good, insanely high bball iq and chemistry between Rubio and Gasol would be great. Also what do you guys think about Cousins? He might have a comeback season like Howard. He can teach Ayton to be more agressive on offence. He might wanna play with Booker.

With Oubre as long as it's not a very good deal keep him. Maybe if OKC lose Gallo we can offer Oubre for Schroder and fill the back up forward position in the draft.

So if i rank the players i wanted us to go after this summer according to salary wise, it should look like this

* Bryn Forbes- Rondae Hollis Jefferson-Jamychal Green-James Johnson-Galloway-Justin Holiday--Boucher-Cousins

** Meyers Leonard -Gasol- Dragic- Joe Harris

*** VanVleet-Bogdanovic-Ibaka

***** Davis (lol)

We can sign two or three of these players according to how the team shapes up after trades and the draft. I would love to see these rotations and final rosters for the next year though.

Spoiler:

Rubio-Vanvleet/Bogdanovic-Payne-Jerome
Booker-Vanvleet/Bogdanovic-Carter
Mikal-Oubre
Cam-Saric
Ayton-Gasol-Saric

or

Rubio-Schroder-Payne-Jerome
Booker-Forbes-Carter
Mikal-Cam- RHJ
Cam-Saric- RHJ
Ayton-Gasol/Ibaka

Don't trade the pick and draft BPA (Haliburton/Vassell/Okongwu/Nesmith/Saddiq Bey) and try to get an extra pick and snatch Tyler Bey.

Good idea about Marc Gasol.
I would love his signing, but I can't imagine him accepting a backup role on a non playoff team. He is yet an starting C on a contender.

Intriguing idea for sure! I wonder if we decided to move on from Baynes for another center, I wonder if Baynes would agree to a sign and trade ( bird rights ) to Toronto for Terrence Davisand Chris Boucher?
Then we could look to add Gasol or else Nerlens Noel if we couldn't land Gasol. Baynes would get to contend, And They'd get a quality veteran center on a decent contract instead of overpaying for less.

I'd love Gasol on the team. He'd a great mentor for Ayton as someone who's gone all the way and would help in the locker room. He has his ring already so I dont see any reason why he'd take a discount to sign here and thats the only way we likely get him is by overpaying. If for some reason we could get him reasonably I'd take him over almost any other FA we could get this year...just for the effect he'd have on our young team.

[bwgood77]

So how much cap space would we have assuming:
- Cap stays flat
- we sign Saric to 3 years at ~ 7m per
-decline Franks option (maybe resign to min later)
- sign Baynes with MLE

Makes more sense to sign Saric and Baynes and THEN use the MLE for best player available 1-2-3.

Saric one year
Baynes one year
MLE is trickier as its multi year so like BWG said - do it the right order and get the best player that fits longer term.

If you are going to find sign a MLE to a longer term one then I don't know that limiting the other contracts to one year is as necessary, though I guess that depends on how much space we could potentially have even with the MLE contract going longer.

[Barkley6]

It's not just Draymond though. It's many fans and players who think all star players should play together and avoid any kind of competition. Just get all the all stars into two different teams and play each other for the championship. This mentality is garbage.

People don't remember the reason WHY 90s basketball was SO good. Everyone thinks it was MJ, and while he was a HUGE part of it, the fact that he was playing against incredible competition was what made what he did so great.

Every team had 1-2, sometimes 3, players worth the price of admission and it made those playoff battles so amazing to watch. Even in the Suns amazing 92-93 season, the Western Conference Playoffs were no cakewalk to the finals.