2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part III

[SunsRback4Good]

I am such a lucky NBA fan. My favorite team went from the most greedy and racist owner to the most ego driven dumbass owner in all of sports.

[TeamTragic]

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And this is what I thought initially too. No way the Pels want Butler, all of a sudden and out of nowhere. It makes no sense.

Riley desperate as ****

[BobbieL]

The best part of the season so far is reading everyone’s posts about trades.

The worst part of the season is actually turning on the TV to witness this lifeless team lead by a star and two wannabe stars (one them is entitled and the other is a model player who never complains but is subject to all the trade rumors).

Not sure what to do when the trade deadline hits and there will be nothing to talk about except how we can rebuild in the offseason.

Very true. But this team is so hard to watch and I think it does start with Durant and Booker
Beal has been a solid teammate - just shows up and plays

Not that Ishbia would blow it up - but Beal around for two more years is preferable to me than Booker, Durant and Butler all sitting ina circle - fluffing each other about how great they are as "The Big 3" nonsense.

[TeamTragic]

I am such a lucky NBA fan. My favorite team went from the most greedy and racist owner to the most ego driven dumbass owner in all of sports.

It could be worse. Trust me on that one.

[Sunsdeuce]

I am such a lucky NBA fan. My favorite team went from the most greedy and racist owner to the most ego driven dumbass owner in all of sports.

It could be worse. Trust me on that one.

It has been worse

[BobbieL]

I am such a lucky NBA fan. My favorite team went from the most greedy and racist owner to the most ego driven dumbass owner in all of sports.

Look at BWG, Matt and I - maybe somebody else

We have had to deal with Sarver and Spanos and now Ishbia

Spanos seems to have turned a corner with Harbaugh and Hortiz (knock on wood)

[Qwigglez]

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And this is what I thought initially too. No way the Pels want Butler, all of a sudden and out of nowhere. It makes no sense.

Riley desperate as ****

It's really laughable. Yeah sure, a team that is 12-36, is going to trade away a 27-year-old player averaging 22, 5.5, and 5 for a 35-year-old player who wants to compete for a championship.
It reeks of desperation.

[BobbieL]

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For those desperately looking to get off of Nurkics' money and shortsightedly looking to needlessly attach/ give away a 1st in the deal,
This apparently bears repeating.

Why willingly screw ourselves further by attaching a 1st to dump Nurkic who will just become an expiring contract this summer and then be more easily movable as an asset? It's really another very poor and shortsighted way of doing business when Nurkic isn't really playing anyways or affecting anything regardless!

If so many are desperate to just get him off this team, then why not just swap Nurkic and his 19 million expiring ( this summer) for Huerters' 16 million expiring contract. WITHOUT HAVING TO SURRENDER A 1ST!!!

Huerter has been really bad for sure and underperformed significantly. But he'd be a different piece that wouldn't cost us anything more than swapping players. And Sacramento would very likely do it not only for positional depth, but to have a 19 million expiring filler to send out in a Fox trade or wherever really? Heck, maybe you can send Hueeters' slightly smaller expiring to Atlanta in a deer deal elsewhere? Perhaps to Portland for Thybulle and filler or back to Atalanta for Nance/filler (attached first)?

But we absolutely shouldn't be looking to attach a 1st in any deal with the end goal just being getting off of his contract.

I'm not in the front office obviously but I don't really think that's the goal to be honest. I'd say what they're looking for is to use Nurkic's salary as the mechanism to acquire a player they think can help them. Adding a late 1st is just the way to make sure that player coming back isn't just dead salary.

If you trade Nurk + 1st for just like an expiring contract who can't play, then yeah that probably isn't good business. But if you move Nurk + 1st for someone who may not be on a great contract himself but can play in your rotation, then maybe you have something. Your market is just guys who probably wouldn't be worth a 1st if you were sending them neutral salary, but it being a late 1st vs some 2nds allows you to make up some of the difference.

Moving the picks at all obviously isn't a great look for those looking to tear it down, but they already dealt that '31 1st...so it seems pretty clear they do not currently have any plans to tear it down. These late 1sts are just burning a hole in their pocket, I'd be shocked if they didn't move at least a couple of them before next season. There's definitely something to be said about making sure you use them wisely, of course.

FWIW I posited a Huerter swap a while back in one of my written pieces (maybe that's where you saw it too), so I'm not necessarily disagreeing w/ the premise. Though obviously, it's another SG who isn't shooting well so it'd ideally be only a last resort and after potentially moving Allen.

Great points! I don't really disagree with anything you've said! Although I might add that if they can't find what they're looking for in a "high-level rotation piece back by adding the 1st to Nurkics' salary in trade, then they'd just been much better served to just send him home paid (just like Crowder) and then look to offload him this summer rather than surrendering an asset in a bad/poor move just for the sake of making a move while dumping Nurkic.

Attaching a pick to Nurkic to just dump him without improving your team is stupid. Like you said, send him home, buy him out, use him as an expiring this summer.

I think its Slim who thinks they should attach him to Booker this summer - but I guess the Suns would have to 1) not trade for Butler and 2) just either not make the playoffs or lose horribly before that path is crossed

[Ghost of Kleine]

But Jimmy butler isn't worth 1 FRP let alone all three
That is a trade that kills the Suns future. I mean, the Suns might as well fold as a franchise if they trade 3 FRPs for Butler.

The Suns, if they are not blowing it up - need to just try to use at most 1 FRP to make a trade around the edges and go from there

I mean, if they lose to the Warriors tonight - it means they beat bad teams and lose to good teams. Thats not a model to win in the playoffs.

Fold the franchise because they’re trading 3 late picks while getting rid of the worst contract in the league who’s redundant with one of our best players?
Y’all are too emotional & not thinking rationally. They can trade Jimmy any time they want to. They won’t be held hostage by a narc “who holds the cards”.

For the billionth time. No one wants Beal. Beal is the only way we get Jimmy. There won’t be a team within the next week with a change of heart to take that bum and if they do he could just shut it down. It has made no sense to still getting riled up and falling for the media’s clickbait.

Yes, fold the franchise because a Jimmy Butler trade that will cost multiple draft picks will set the franchise back ten years. Jimmy Butler is not a player that will lead the Suns to a championship. Maybe the second round.

But the reason I say fold the franchise is you are giving up draft picks - so you will be left with none that you control for how many years

And you said "well you can always trade Butler" -- true but his value will still be declining. Sure they can trade him but if he is signed to an extension - who will want to pay Butler

You can say I am too emotional - thats fine
But fans that want the Butler deal to go through - I think are not looking realistically at the team not only this year but the future. The high level mark for the Suns, if butler is traded is this year. It will only get worse.

All of this is important!
1- We already don't control any of our picks now as a result of the swaps, which is absolutely why it was important to keep thee 1' first, But then we flipped it for much lesser value "least favorable picks that no one wants because now those to are controlled by other teams. So they actually have very little (borderline 2nd) type value to other teams. And no one is gonna give up quality assets/players for those picks under those conditions!

2- It's been said that "You could always trade Butler and/or KD" in the future!! For what exactly though??? Who here or anywhere for that matter (that understands depreciation) would actually give us anything of value for either a 38-year-old Butler or a 39-year-old Durant, BOTH on a max freaking contract?? When was the last time any team (aside from us ) gave up value / significant value for a nearly 40 player making max money???............I'll wait.

3- Trading for Butler seems good and exciting! (just like trading for Beal seemed good and exciting too at the time)! but look how that has turned out for us. And both players have the same durability concerns and are making outrageous money contractually. While neither really legitimately do much to make us contenders as currently constructed just as our previous trades we're terrible and leave us as a very disappointing .500 team with no future and no flexibility while having the highest payroll in NBA history!!!

It's honestly a masterclass in what not to do as an NBA owner and glaringly illustrates the dangers of irrationally compulsive behavior and narcissistic tendencies. And the irony is that in spite of how obviously things aren't at all working under this strategy, people seem to be ok with just compounding the issue and continuing to repeat the same horrifically negligent strategy over and over again! That's the very definition of insanity!! Yt they keep doubling, tripling, and quadrupling down on these terrible decisions and blatantly ignore our inevitable collapse. But..................................

[BobbieL]

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And this is what I thought initially too. No way the Pels want Butler, all of a sudden and out of nowhere. It makes no sense.

Riley desperate as ****

It's really laughable. Yeah sure, a team that is 12-36, is going to trade away a 27-year-old player averaging 22, 5.5, and 5 for a 35-year-old player who wants to compete for a championship.
It reeks of desperation.

The Heat or agents are putting this out there so that Ishbia gets more desperate ..

[bullsaficianado]

A Beal and Herro backcourt with Bam would be pretty solid for the Heat. I know Beal's contract is not appealing to them but if Suns add like 3 future 1st's they would be stupid to turn that down.

[Saberestar]

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[Sunsdeuce]

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How can you have a firm offer without including Beal which isn’t a firm offer.

[Saberestar]

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How can you have a firm offer without including Beal which isn’t a firm offer.

Beal will go to the Heat IF they want him.

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[bullsaficianado]

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How can you have a firm offer without including Beal which isn’t a firm offer.

They likely spoke to Beal and he said he would waive his NTC to go to Miami. He originally wanted to go there. That is likely why the Suns have a firm offer. Beal and 3 1st's for Butler.

[dremill24]

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How can you have a firm offer without including Beal which isn’t a firm offer.

I mean Im sure Beal + picks is a firm offer that has been made lol. Just cause Miami doesnt like it doesnt mean its not, right?

[Ghost of Kleine]

Not that I'd ever suggest here but if Fox gets traded to the Spurs, they probably buy Chris Paul out. The Lakers are missing any semblance of a PG or backcourt leader I guess.

Many wouldn't consider bringing him back here, but I actually would for his leadership, ball management, accountability, and IQ!!! Also to try and get Booker back to how he was when Paul was here and here actually card about competing. And for a 10 million expiring, we could honestly do far worse! I think he'd add significant value to what we're trying to do over what we currently have. And then you'd move Jonees elsewhere for a piece/ 2nd. I think Jones is great! And has been important to us too, but we're going to lose him for nothing anyways this summer! And Paul is an upgraded vet version of him!

** Trade Nurkic/ 1st for Paul/ Champagnie/ Mamukelashvili/ 2nd.
** Trade Allen/ 1st for Olynyk/ Mogbo/2nd.
** Trade Jones for 2nd/2nds.

Paul / Booker/ Dunn / Durant / Richards.
Morris / Beal / O'neale / Olynyk / Plumlee.
Gillespie/ D Lee/ Champagnie/ Mamukelashvili/ Ighodaro.

- This trade gives us the ultimate floor general which helps our offense and controls turnovers!
- Significant Size upgrade, positional versatility, Pick 'n' Pop big/frontcourt floor spacing, (Olynyk), Elite multipositional defense, and rebounding (Mogbo).
- Great size (6'8 SF) and multipositional defense on the wing and 3-point shooting (37%) from three (Champagnie).
- 2 good versatile big 6'11 versatile 4/5s' in (Olynyk and Mamu) that can pass, defend, rebound, hit from mid-range and three, set screens, complement our non-shooting bigs.
- 2nds to use via the draft or package in trades.

[sunsbg]

Heat should've taken Suns offer long time ago and run with it. There is no other ret*rded FO to give them anything of value for last payday Butler.

These Bogi rumors make zero sense if Allen is not on the trade block. Solves nothing for this team.

[Slim Charless]

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And this is what I thought initially too. No way the Pels want Butler, all of a sudden and out of nowhere. It makes no sense.

Riley desperate as ****

It's really laughable. Yeah sure, a team that is 12-36, is going to trade away a 27-year-old player averaging 22, 5.5, and 5 for a 35-year-old player who wants to compete for a championship.
It reeks of desperation.

In their defense, motivated Jimmy would probably help Zion get in gear more. Bet he'll lost weight with Jimmy there getting on him and calling him fat all the time

[bullsaficianado]

Not that I'd ever suggest here but if Fox gets traded to the Spurs, they probably buy Chris Paul out. The Lakers are missing any semblance of a PG or backcourt leader I guess.

** Trade Nurkic/ 1st for Paul/ Champagnie/ Mamukelashvili/ 2nd.

I would love to have CP3 back. That would be worth it. Bring Tyus off the bench.

Spurs like international players so that would be a Spurs move to trade for Nurkic.