The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2

[BobbieL]

I really don't like any of the offers for Durant. Might as well just keep him if we trade him we are gonna suck anyway.

KD is not a leader, and not making the players around him better! We need to get rid of that snake, and also get rid of beal while we are at it.

I would rather us have the same record this year with youth that hustles, has fun, and plays together well vs a "big 3" that cannot even get to .500 and make the playoffs

Agreed. I just do not want to watch KD on the Suns anymore. I actually think if you put that team you describe around Booker, it might invigorate him.

Knicks might be in on Durant if the Pacers sweep

[ChuckS]

Why would you want to extend him? He is not going to improve at this point of his career. He can only get worse

And again, who cares if he asked for a trade or didn't ask for a trade? It isn't his choice. It shouldn't be Bookers choice either.

The risk of losing KD for nothing would disappear and there would be more time to see how the team responds under a new GM and a new HC.

Beal will be gone and most of the roster will not be back. Different team.

If things don't go well you can always trade KD later at the deadline or next summer. An extension would give us more power in negotiations.

The problems with the Suns start with Booker and Durant --- bringing them back would create the similar problems.
Along with Beal -they are the common factor. New HC, new GM -- won't help the team with Booker and Durant as the two main players. They are not compatible complementary players. Don't look at stats, look at W's and L's

And I get it - the Beal and Ayton trades were fiascos, just terrible. But moving forward, trading Durant has to happen

Forgive me if I believe it would be unwise to not look at stats, when points particularly, but also rebounds, assists, etc., decide which team wins. It seems clear to me that this is the first thing a coach does before meeting the press. One can tell when they complain about unfairness of foul calls or bemoan the lack of rebounding or missed foul shots. Without stats we would be at the mercy of the opinion of anyone who makes pronouncements as if ex-Cathedra.

But more importantly, they are the best determinant,IMO, of who should stay and who should go. Coaches and GMs are important to teams, but in games players determine the outcome. I find it impossible to believe that many actually believe that the Suns' problems start with Booker and Durant. In addition to their other valuable contributions they averaged 52 points per game (I think about 8th and 11th in the league.) Beal added 17. Of the total 114 points per game the other 17, who have played, averaged 45 PPG. It seems to me that they too should be considered common factors, and the real problem with the team, in addition to its size disparity.

[thamadkant]

Wolves will be the most aggressive team going after Durant after Thunder sweeps them or win 4-1.

But they don't have anyone and Randle ain't it.

TBH. I would take

Randle, Naz Reid and 1st for KD

No. With Booker, Beal and Randle.... that's 130ppg average for the other teams. Suns win 25 games.

Suns BEST offer is Paul George and Pick 3, if that is true. Paul George is an elite wing defender, even if he stops shooting, his defense is pretty good and Pick 3 gets you a future SG/SF cornerstone player. Booker Paul George also cant have a worse season than last so even if he was just a defender Suns at worst win the same amount of games as this past season except they now have a top prospect to develop.

Then Booker will ask out next off season, then get 3-4 first rounders for him and a young player. Suns then wait until PG and Beal expire with 100M cap space freeing up in 2029 and young players and picks to boot.

[thamadkant]

I really don't like any of the offers for Durant. Might as well just keep him if we trade him we are gonna suck anyway.

If you look up the game logs, when KD scores 30+ Suns have a pretty competitive record. Booker on the other hand, as first option and apparently on his prime, when he scores big, the Suns usually lose.

I would rather trade Booker than KD... purely because KD cannot fetch any good trades, but Booker can. Keep KD and make him average 33ppg as first option and Suns should be able to win 40 games or so.

[dremill24]

Wolves will be the most aggressive team going after Durant after Thunder sweeps them or win 4-1.

But they don't have anyone and Randle ain't it.

TBH. I would take

Randle, Naz Reid and 1st for KD

No. With Booker, Beal and Randle.... that's 130ppg average for the other teams. Suns win 25 games.

Suns BEST offer is Paul George and Pick 3, if that is true. Paul George is an elite wing defender, even if he stops shooting, his defense is pretty good and Pick 3 gets you a future SG/SF cornerstone player. Booker Paul George also cant have a worse season than last so even if he was just a defender Suns at worst win the same amount of games as this past season except they now have a top prospect to develop.

Then Booker will ask out next off season, then get 3-4 first rounders for him and a young player. Suns then wait until PG and Beal expire with 100M cap space freeing up in 2029 and young players and picks to boot.

This report was just speculation from other teams as something the Sixers might consider looking into...wouldnt hitch your wagon too tightly to that one.

[dremill24]

I really don't like any of the offers for Durant. Might as well just keep him if we trade him we are gonna suck anyway.

If you look up the game logs, when KD scores 30+ Suns have a pretty competitive record. Booker on the other hand, as first option and apparently on his prime, when he scores big, the Suns usually lose.

I would rather trade Booker than KD... purely because KD cannot fetch any good trades, but Booker can. Keep KD and make him average 33ppg as first option and Suns should be able to win 40 games or so.

I've mentioned before, if you actually look up the game logs...

In the last two seasons, the Suns are 4-3 when KD scores 40 and 8-4 when Booker scores 40. They are 25-23 when Durant scores 30 and 29-21 when Booker scores 30.

Im not making a bigger picture Booker vs Durant argument, your broader point could be true. Just pointing out the evidence you chose for this particular point doesnt necessarily support your claim.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

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[ChuckS]

I really don't like any of the offers for Durant. Might as well just keep him if we trade him we are gonna suck anyway.

If you look up the game logs, when KD scores 30+ Suns have a pretty competitive record. Booker on the other hand, as first option and apparently on his prime, when he scores big, the Suns usually lose.

I would rather trade Booker than KD... purely because KD cannot fetch any good trades, but Booker can. Keep KD and make him average 33ppg as first option and Suns should be able to win 40 games or so.

I've mentioned before, if you actually look up the game logs...

In the last two seasons, the Suns are 4-3 when KD scores 40 and 8-4 when Booker scores 40. They are 25-23 when Durant scores 30 and 29-21 when Booker scores 30.

Im not making a bigger picture Booker vs Durant argument, your broader point could be true. Just pointing out the evidence you chose for this particular point doesnt necessarily support your claim.

Very interesting numbers. I wouldn't know where to find out, but would be interested in knowing what each did when the other was high scorer, to get a broader picture. (If this makes any sense.) But it would show what impact (if any) the other had in the win. For example "lilfish" reminded that Book had 47 in one of the two Denver playoff wins and KD had 39. Without both excelling the Suns would have lost. ...just curious.

Edit: If numbers not easily available disregard this request. I already feel lazy.

[Saberestar]

Why would you want to extend him? He is not going to improve at this point of his career. He can only get worse

And again, who cares if he asked for a trade or didn't ask for a trade? It isn't his choice. It shouldn't be Bookers choice either.

The risk of losing KD for nothing would disappear and there would be more time to see how the team responds under a new GM and a new HC.

Beal will be gone and most of the roster will not be back. Different team.

If things don't go well you can always trade KD later at the deadline or next summer. An extension would give us more power in negotiations.

The problems with the Suns start with Booker and Durant --- bringing them back would create the similar problems.
Along with Beal -they are the common factor. New HC, new GM -- won't help the team with Booker and Durant as the two main players. They are not compatible complementary players. Don't look at stats, look at W's and L's

And I get it - the Beal and Ayton trades were fiascos, just terrible. But moving forward, trading Durant has to happen

I would prefer to keep our (by far) two best players and change the pieces around them.

New GM and New HC on the same offseason are big time moves, the team is gonna look very different even with KD and Book back.

Beal will be gone for sure. That can be an addition by subtraction for us.

We needed Beal to be an All-Star player and he played like Jordan Clarkson at best or was on street clothes because of every possible type of ridiculous injury for two consecutive years.

The league allows more physicality and we built a roster of 3p shooters and perimeter shot creators for the last two years. We can bring this summer more tough defensive players and gritty role players to put around KD and Book.

But at the end of the day I would be OK trading KD if he asks for a trade privately AND we get a good offer for him.

[Boujack]

Please, let's be a bit realistic. Our "BIG 3" are not Top 30 players anymore. This means other teams will only offer mediocre players. And in the case of Bradley Beal, let's be thankful if someone does us the favor of keeping him for free.

This is what we have. No matter how much nonsense is written in this forum.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

I still think that BOTH the Knicks and Timberwolves will get embarrassingly eliminated from the playoffs and look to aggressively add KD this summer as a solution, and that for the Knicks, KAT would be made available in a swap.


Now I actually don't mind this as I believe that KAT himself could hold more value elsewhere to a team like Brooklyn, Houston, Charlotte, Memphis or even San Antonio due to his versatile scoring at 7 ft. And many of the same teams that would be considering KD, would also consider KAT as he's younger, in a longer deal, and offers very similar elite scoring production to that of KD himself!

Overall he's just not as dynamic! But of those teams, I absolutely believe that KAT could be rerouted to those teams for favorable packages:

Brooklyn ( KAT is from New Jersey).
KAT for Claxton/ Johnson/ 19th, 26th, 27th picks and a BRK 26' or 28' 1st. Ideally though we could help facilitate a Giannis trade for Brooklyn by sending..............................

NEW YORK- KD.
MILWAUKEE- KAT/ Allen/ ( Picks from Brooklyn).
BROOKLYN- Giannis.
PHOENIX- C Johnson/ NIK Claxton/ Andre Jackson/ Tyler Smith/ 25' 19th, 26th, 27th picks and one of BRKs' 26' or 28' 1st.

Houston ( KAT is younger and aligns more with their timeline, and compliments their offensive needs too).
KAT for D Brooks/ J Smith Jr/ Sheppard/ Landale/ Whitmore/ 10th pick/ PHX 27' 1st/ 26' 2nd ( via OKC, DAL, or PHI ( no protections)/ 28' 2nd via (POR or NOP).

Charlotte ( Charlotte desperately needs a star compliment to Ball and Miller to keep Lamelo from asking out).
KAT for Bridges/ Nurkic (19 million expiring)/ Salane/ DAL 27' 1st ( Top 2 protected)/ MIA 27' 1st (Top 14 protected)/ CHO 29' 1st./ 33rd and 34th picks in 25' draft.

Memphis ( KAT would be an amazing compliment next to Jackson Jr and Morant giving the Grizz a big three of Jackson Jr/ Morant/ KAT)??
KAT for Bane/ Clarke/ Edey/ GG Jackson/ Jaylen Wells/ MEM 27' 1st/ MEM 29' 1st/ MEM 31' 1st.
** I'm flipping Bane/ Richards to Orlando for Isaac/ KCP/ 25th pick ( DEN)/ ORL 28' 1st.

San Antonio ( KAT would be the perfect compliment next to Wemby if the Spurs are unwilling to COMPLETELY GUT their team for Giannis).
KAT for Vassell/ Barnes/ Sochan/ 14th pick/ 38th pick/ BOS 28' 1st swap (Top 1 protected)/ 2030' 1st via DAL (Unprotected) or MIN ( Top 1 protected)/ UTA 26' 1st.
** I'm flipping Vassell to Orlando, Brooklyn or Utah possibly?

I'd also mention that teams like Denver, Miami and San Antonio should still be interested in KD this summer IF none land Giannis because Horst is only willing to trade Giannis if those teams gut their depth and assets in return for him! So, KD will look like a much more palatable cheaper option!

[Ghost of Kleine]

Please, let's be a bit realistic. Our "BIG 3" are not Top 30 players anymore. This means other teams will only offer mediocre players. And in the case of Bradley Beal, let's be thankful if someone does us the favor of keeping him for free.

This is what we have. No matter how much nonsense is written in this forum.

The differences with other teams though is context around adding KD ( for example) because unlike us, they have much better situations to surround him with better roster construction, coaching, front office experts and overall assets to properly build out a contender.

Our star players aren't top 10 players or super valuable. But they'll carry significant value to other teams because their situations are different and much more favorable to ours because our tront office is a joke!

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

This tells us two things ( which could inadvertently affect us towards a KD trade).

1- Brooklyn might not be getting Giannis due to Horsts' new strategy to keep Giannis in Milwaukee by forcing teams to gut their roster and assets for acquisition of Giannis making any recieving team less desirable for him to go to ( aside from OKC who could still overpay and be fine)!

2- Milwaukee will likely keep Giannis and not trade him this summer.

These considerations only help reestablish value for KD in that now, for any/ all teams not getting Giannis, a KD trade requiring less assets to acquire should theoretically be a much more palatable plan B.

[Saberestar]

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I think that we are targeting this player with #52 in mind.

Jihad had a fantastic prep career, being one of the top players in Michigan

Senior. 6'9 with a 7'2 wingspan and weights 239 pounds. He really looks fast and mobile with that size.

[TeamTragic]

Read on Twitter

This tells us two things ( which could inadvertently affect us towards a KD trade).

1- Brooklyn might not be getting Giannis due to Horsts' new strategy to keep Giannis in Milwaukee by forcing teams to gut their roster and assets for acquisition of Giannis making any recieving team less desirable for him to go to ( aside from OKC who could still overpay and be fine)!

2- Milwaukee will likely keep Giannis and not trade him this summer.

These considerations only help reestablish value for KD in that now, for any/ all teams not getting Giannis, a KD trade requiring less assets to acquire should theoretically be a much more palatable plan B.

Anyone that does business with the Spurs is going to get hosed. Just ask the Kings who traded Fox for peanuts.

I highly doubt they will move Harper for future picks. Clearly the NBA will help them in every draft.

[dremill24]

Read on Twitter

This tells us two things ( which could inadvertently affect us towards a KD trade).

1- Brooklyn might not be getting Giannis due to Horsts' new strategy to keep Giannis in Milwaukee by forcing teams to gut their roster and assets for acquisition of Giannis making any recieving team less desirable for him to go to ( aside from OKC who could still overpay and be fine)!

2- Milwaukee will likely keep Giannis and not trade him this summer.

These considerations only help reestablish value for KD in that now, for any/ all teams not getting Giannis, a KD trade requiring less assets to acquire should theoretically be a much more palatable plan B.

Anyone that does business with the Spurs is going to get hosed. Just ask the Kings who traded Fox for peanuts.

I highly doubt they will move Harper for future picks. Clearly the NBA will help them in every draft.

I'd call this more a Kings thing than a Spurs thing. Kings get hosed by everyone.

[TeamTragic]

Read on Twitter

This tells us two things ( which could inadvertently affect us towards a KD trade).

1- Brooklyn might not be getting Giannis due to Horsts' new strategy to keep Giannis in Milwaukee by forcing teams to gut their roster and assets for acquisition of Giannis making any recieving team less desirable for him to go to ( aside from OKC who could still overpay and be fine)!

2- Milwaukee will likely keep Giannis and not trade him this summer.

These considerations only help reestablish value for KD in that now, for any/ all teams not getting Giannis, a KD trade requiring less assets to acquire should theoretically be a much more palatable plan B.

Anyone that does business with the Spurs is going to get hosed. Just ask the Kings who traded Fox for peanuts.

I highly doubt they will move Harper for future picks. Clearly the NBA will help them in every draft.

I'd call this more a Kings thing than a Spurs thing. Kings get hosed by everyone.

Correct. Point stands though because Silver just gave them the #2 pick. They will jump into the top 5 whenever necessary.

[Sunsdeuce]

Going to state the obvious:
1) there are no trades on the table right now for anyone on the suns. Anything being reported is conjure. The NBA season isn’t even over yet so reporting on “possible” off season trades is no different than any of us coming up with trade ideas. No substance behind any trades right now other than someone wanting their 5 minutes of fame.

2) it takes two teams to tango. Just because Ishbia talks about “upgrading” this roster doesn’t mean it will happen. He’s said that each year he’s owned the team and still hasn’t been able to do it. Everyone wants to upgrade from Allen and O’Neal but it takes another team to tango to give you a better player BUT what team is willing to do that?

3) Booker needs to go for this team to get better. It’s the harsh truth BUT we got an owner acting like Booker is on MJ level which is pure insanity because Booker is more Gilbert Arenas than any player comparable. Both Gilbert and Booker just put up numbers but don’t/can’t affect the game. BUT the other part is Booker is going to stay so get use to not being competitive.

4) KD will prob get traded and the team will slightly improve. Improving from 36 wins to 37 wins isn’t asking for a whole lot and not exactly hard to do.

5) Beal controls his own destiny. Conjuring up possible trades with Beal is a pointless endeavor. Probably be best to stop talking about trading Beal. No team wants him right now because the suns successfully killed his value. And his no trade clause and salary figure make it impossible to move him. Have to bite the bullet and ride out his last two years.

Last but not least: no coach will fix this mess. Coaches have taken the fall for this incompetent owner. I’ve never seen an owner go from hero to zero in less time than Ishbia. Ishbia could possibly be worse than Sarver. If you asked me if it could get worse than Sarver 10 years ago, I’d call you nuts! But here we are.

[sunsbg]

^Agreed on all points.