Is Hornacek the problem?

In Len We Trust · Post #361 » by **In Len We Trust** » Thu Apr 9, 2015 6:10 pm

I love it. Jeff has officially lost the team.

RaisingArizona · Post #362 » by **RaisingArizona** » Thu Apr 9, 2015 8:16 pm

kennydorglas wrote:Hornacek just got flamed by Gerald Green's agent hahaha

Interesting quote in the interview: "He brings it on the defensive end, consistent with what the team brings as a unit."

Yeah, no he doesn't.

Saberestar · Post #363 » by **Saberestar** » Thu Apr 9, 2015 8:45 pm

I think that Hornaceck is a decent coach. He was a rookie coach last year, and he made a good job. Some people said even a great job. BUT things changed in the offseason and the roster is a mess. Too much perimeter players, too much egos, too much selfish players, off court issues, moron players, basketball IQ wanted dead or alive......and some of the better locker room guys ( Frye, Ish and Christmas ) out of the team.
I blame McDonough for this year's fail. He thought about players like assets and not like people, and that was an epic fail. Hopefully he has learned the lesson and he makes significant good changes this offseason and we can enjoy our team better next year.

letsgosuns · Post #364 » by **letsgosuns** » Thu Apr 9, 2015 9:42 pm

Saberestar wrote:I think that Hornaceck is a decent coach. He was a rookie coach last year, and he made a good job. Some people said even a great job. BUT things changed in the offseason and the roster is a mess. Too much perimeter players, too much egos, too much selfish players, off court issues, moron players, basketball IQ wanted dead or alive......and some of the better locker room guys ( Frye, Ish and Christmas ) out of the team.
I blame McDonough for this year's fail. He thought about players like assets and not like people, and that was an epic fail. Hopefully he has learned the lesson and he makes significant good changes this offseason and we can enjoy our team better next year.

I think this is what Barkley is trying to say when you use analytics too much. Like how the Suns said statistically the three point guard system worked because the stats said it did. Yet anyone in their right mind could watch it and know it was a massive failure. Basketball is not complicated. You need the biggest and best players you can get. You do not need a 5'9" pg, a 6'1" sg, and a 6'3" sf like the Suns were doing when they played the three pg's together. McDonough still said it was not a mistake to sign Thomas during the press conference after trade deadline, but I think he was in denial about that question. He said the Suns outscored their opponents when those three guys were playing together. Well what he failed to say was that it did not equate to good chemistry, correct use of players, and most importantly wins. Analytics can only get you so far. You need to factor in real life like you said. I hope he looks at the team in that regard now.

thamadkant · Post #365 » by **thamadkant** » Thu Apr 9, 2015 10:08 pm

Damkac wrote:
1UPZ wrote:Getting just ANY new coach isnt the solution either...

But getting a coach that comes from a "tree of successful systems" (AKA Popovic's system like Budenholzer) would be a special case.... however it will only work if the GM is also planning on getting the correct "system" players to go with that coach.

The worst possible thing is changing the coach every season or two and hoping to finally draw the good one

I dont think Suns should fire Hornacek even with the current situation.
Unless Popovic or a high-caliber coach is on the market, you rather stick with Hornacek and just understand his vision and give him the players he needs... intellectually and talent-wise. Not some spreadsheet showing percentages and numbers etc.

What Goodwin said in the interview is OUT of line from a 20 year old who still makes mistakes as much as anyone, BUT.... he isnt wrong, he has good points. Sadly no one else on the Suns veteran group wanted to say it... and mainly because some of those guys are the culprits.

Revived · Post #366 » by **Revived** » Thu Apr 9, 2015 10:10 pm

kennydorglas wrote:Hornacek just got flamed by Gerald Green's agent hahaha

Interesting quote in the interview: "He brings it on the defensive end, consistent with what the team brings as a unit."

Yea his agent went on to basically call Hornacek an idiot.

I'm glad that NBA agents around the NBA are really loving the Suns. Sure is helping make us that "desirable FA" FA location that uninformed posters on the FA thread think we are :lol:

RunDogGun · Post #367 » by **RunDogGun** » Thu Apr 9, 2015 10:30 pm

kennydorglas wrote:Hornacek just got flamed by Gerald Green's agent hahaha

Interesting quote in the interview: "He brings it on the defensive end, consistent with what the team brings as a unit."

The whole interview would be nice to read, not some quote that starts with a frickin pronoun. :noway:

In the Dallas game JVG and crew were talking about how great Green can be on offense, but very limited on defense. Strange they did mention the whole team. :roll:

Puff · Post #368 » by **Puff** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:59 am

RunDogGun wrote:
kennydorglas wrote:Hornacek just got flamed by Gerald Green's agent hahaha

Interesting quote in the interview: "He brings it on the defensive end, consistent with what the team brings as a unit."

The whole interview would be nice to read, not some quote that starts with a frickin pronoun. :noway:

In the Dallas game JVG and crew were talking about how great Green can be on offense, but very limited on defense. Strange they did mention the whole team. :roll:

They also said that A LOT of teams could use Green's offense coming off the bench.

I expect that he and his agent will have more than one team looking to add him to their roster.

That is while everyone's favorite coach replaces Green with the great defender Tucker or Keiff's brother and relies on them to make points for us at crunch time.

Post #369 » by **lilfishi22** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:13 am

Puff wrote:They also said that A LOT of teams could use Green's offense coming off the bench.

I expect that he and his agent will have more than one team looking to add him to their roster.

That is while everyone's favorite coach replaces Green with the great defender Tucker or Keiff's brother and relies on them to make points for us at crunch time.

I'm sure he's going to get paid and I hope it's not from us. We don't need Green's offense, we need some serious basketball smarts and a veteran voice.

RunDogGun · Post #370 » by **RunDogGun** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:28 am

Puff wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:
kennydorglas wrote:Hornacek just got flamed by Gerald Green's agent hahaha

Interesting quote in the interview: "He brings it on the defensive end, consistent with what the team brings as a unit."

The whole interview would be nice to read, not some quote that starts with a frickin pronoun.

In the Dallas game JVG and crew were talking about how great Green can be on offense, but very limited on defense. Strange they did mention the whole team.

They also said that A LOT of teams could use Green's offense coming off the bench.

I expect that he and his agent will have more than one team looking to add him to their roster.

That is while everyone's favorite coach replaces Green with the great defender Tucker or Keiff's brother and relies on them to make points for us at crunch time.

I'm sure he will catch on to a team. Heck, we could have used last year's Green this season, but sadly we didn't get that Green.

I was hoping Goodwin and Bullock would take any minutes that Green would get. Unfortunately Bullock just wasn't ready yet.

It was great to see Green do well in the Dallas game, but overall, he was just nowhere near the player he was last season. And since we have enough youngsters waiting, that can play better defense and often can match the offense output on the average, there seems no need to resign him.

It seems as if his agent just wants to blame Green's poor play this season on the Suns, which seems a running theme from some of our players and ex players.

LukasBMW · Post #371 » by **LukasBMW** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:39 am

Wow. What a disaster.

We absolutely need a veteran leader or two. Bringing on a 2 solid locker room guys to mentor our team is a must in free agency.

If we had signed Frye instead of Thomas, I bet we still have Dragic, we still have our Laker pick, and we would be fighting for home court in the playoffs.

Remember after last season when Ryan McDonough said how important it was to keep the team chemistry together? Well he really **** that up on more then a few occasions this year.

Bledsoe/Archie/Ennis
Dragic/Green
PJ/TJ/Marcus
Kieff/Frye
Len/Wright

With our pick, the Laker pick, and even some cap room.

LukasBMW · Post #372 » by **LukasBMW** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:42 am

Frye left with a bad taste in his mouth
Dragic left and practically lit the arena on fire
The twins become technical foul machines
Archie complains
Green complains

Writing is on the wall.

We need leadership, but who wants control over this disaster? Who wants to actually come here and play?

I miss Colangelo.

RunDogGun · Post #373 » by **RunDogGun** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:48 am

LukasBMW wrote:Frye left with a bad taste in his mouth
Dragic left and practically lit the arena on fire
The twins become technical foul machines
Archie complains
Green complains

Writing is on the wall.

We need leadership, but who wants control over this disaster? Who wants to actually come here and play?

I miss Colangelo.

I don't remember Green complaining. It was his agent complaining. Colengelo made many of his own mistakes, one of which forced him to find someone else to buy the $200 million debt he racked up. We are lucky to still have a team in PHX.

Puff · Post #374 » by **Puff** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:20 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Puff wrote:They also said that A LOT of teams could use Green's offense coming off the bench.

I expect that he and his agent will have more than one team looking to add him to their roster.

That is while everyone's favorite coach replaces Green with the great defender Tucker or Keiff's brother and relies on them to make points for us at crunch time.

I'm sure he's going to get paid and I hope it's not from us. We don't need Green's offense, we need some serious basketball smarts and a veteran voice.

I agree

I love to watch him play and he deserves to play for a coach that has a clue.

Puff · Post #375 » by **Puff** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:22 am

Mutiny on the Bounty - I love it

Post #376 » by **lilfishi22** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:23 am

Puff wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Puff wrote:They also said that A LOT of teams could use Green's offense coming off the bench.

I expect that he and his agent will have more than one team looking to add him to their roster.

That is while everyone's favorite coach replaces Green with the great defender Tucker or Keiff's brother and relies on them to make points for us at crunch time.

I'm sure he's going to get paid and I hope it's not from us. We don't need Green's offense, we need some serious basketball smarts and a veteran voice.

I agree

I love to watch him play and he deserves to play for a coach that has a clue.

Ehh don't agree with this. It's the same coach that got him some legit consideration for both 6MOY and MIP.

letsgosuns · Post #377 » by **letsgosuns** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:48 am

I like Channing Frye as a person. He provides veteran leadership abilities and spreads the floor on offense. However, when it comes to basketball, I think he sucks. Flat out sucks. The only place he ever succeeded was in Phoenix with Steve Nash like so many other players Nash helped. The thought of giving him 4 years, $32 million like the Magic did is ludicrous. I am gonna take a wild guess and assume they regret that contract. You do not pay a big guy that provides virtually no defense, no rebounding, an no inside game $8 million a year. He has had a horrible year averaging 7 pts and 4 rbs on 39% fg. Yeah he shoots 39% 3 pts but that overall field goal percentage is terrible for a big guy. His numbers are so low for a guy that plays 25 minutes a game.

When I hear that losing him destroyed Dragic's game, it boggles my mind. If that is true, it shows how one dimensional Dragic really is. If his entire game is based around the presence of Channing Frye, that is pathetic. I said it so many times last year and said it this year. Dragic has never come close to playing the way he did last season before that year or after that year. This is probably the worst I have seen Dragic play since his first go around with the Suns. He was way better in 2012-2013 than he has been this year.

phrazbit · Post #378 » by **phrazbit** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:34 am

I realize its popular to hate on Hornacek but its hilarious how many here get pissed off and rip Hornacek anytime Green is in the game... now Green's agent whines about the situation and you guys rip Hornacek still.

Green is an abomination defensively. The Suns go from giving up 105 per 100 possessions when Green sits to giving up 113 when he plays. That is a mammoth margin. What Hornacek said was 100% correct.

Furthermore, if not for Hornacek rehabilitating Green's image last season Green would still be on the fast track to playing in China.

RunDogGun · Post #379 » by **RunDogGun** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:44 pm

phrazbit wrote:I realize its popular to hate on Hornacek but its hilarious how many here get pissed off and rip Hornacek anytime Green is in the game... now Green's agent whines about the situation and you guys rip Hornacek still.

Green is an abomination defensively. The Suns go from giving up 105 per 100 possessions when Green sits to giving up 113 when he plays. That is a mammoth margin. What Hornacek said was 100% correct.

Furthermore, if not for Hornacek rehabilitating Green's image last season Green would still be on the fast track to playing in China.

And we agree again.

Post #380 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:43 pm

Saberestar wrote:I think that Hornaceck is a decent coach. He was a rookie coach last year, and he made a good job. Some people said even a great job. BUT things changed in the offseason and the roster is a mess. Too much perimeter players, too much egos, too much selfish players, off court issues, moron players, basketball IQ wanted dead or alive......and some of the better locker room guys ( Frye, Ish and Christmas ) out of the team.
I blame McDonough for this year's fail. He thought about players like assets and not like people, and that was an epic fail. Hopefully he has learned the lesson and he makes significant good changes this offseason and we can enjoy our team better next year.

Yeah, it's McD's fault. Last year we were like 2 deep at each position with some really young guys, and then this year we have so many guards, no one was truly happy. That's just going to happen no matter who the coach decides to play.