Draft Thread Part 2

Damkac · Post #361 » by **Damkac** » Mon May 9, 2016 7:21 am

Between his 2nd and 3rd year he regressed from .293 to .235 3pt% (he was shooting much more in 3rd year though). This don't looks good. Meanwhile TJ improved from .238 to .400
I think FO gave up on Archie already. They played some d-leaguers in front of him.

Mulhollanddrive, Bender shoot .719 ft and .368 3pt this season. Don't judge him only by 86 minutes he played in Euroleague/Cup. I'm more worried about him scoring in the paint than his shooting.

Post #362 » by **Qwigglez** » Mon May 9, 2016 8:49 am

It's Archie's mentality that bothers me. Simply put, I think he just needs a change of scenery. McLemore for Archie sounds good to me.

Mulhollanddrive · Post #363 » by **Mulhollanddrive** » Mon May 9, 2016 12:22 pm

Bender's taken 8 two-point attempts in his last 113 minutes.

Even if he can shoot, he's not going to be making anymore than Simmons, Brown or Dunn on that figure.

jcsunsfan · Post #364 » by **jcsunsfan** » Mon May 9, 2016 3:14 pm

Qwigglez wrote:It's Archie's mentality that bothers me. Simply put, I think he just needs a change of scenery. McLemore for Archie sounds good to me.

That would be a steal for the Suns IMO.

Post #365 » by **Qwigglez** » Mon May 9, 2016 3:47 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:It's Archie's mentality that bothers me. Simply put, I think he just needs a change of scenery. McLemore for Archie sounds good to me.

That would be a steal for the Suns IMO.

Not really a steal, McLemore really regressed this season. I took em in fantasy league thinking he was gonna have a breakout year. Boy was I wrong.

Djedefre · Post #366 » by **Djedefre** » Mon May 9, 2016 4:15 pm

@Chriss

Looking at his profile i see a player that fits modern bball philosophy - active PF with range, able to switch when needed and play in transition. When it comes to his weaknesses, almost each is corrigible and appear to be repercussions of so few years 'playing competitive basketball' - ball handling, boxing-out, trying to block every single shot that leads to foul trouble, lack of strength in post defense... As i see it, his only real weakness is distribution. He simply doesn't have the vision to involve teammates and behaves a little like black hole on the floor when he gets the ball. That's something not so easy to improve and lift on a higher level.

jcsunsfan · Post #367 » by **jcsunsfan** » Mon May 9, 2016 5:13 pm

Djedefre wrote:@Chriss

Looking at his profile i see a player that fits modern bball philosophy - active PF with range, able to switch when needed and play in transition. When it comes to his weaknesses, almost each is corrigible and appear to be repercussions of so few years 'playing competitive basketball' - ball handling, boxing-out, trying to block every single shot that leads to foul trouble, lack of strength in post defense... As i see it, his only real weakness is distribution. He simply doesn't have the vision to involve teammates and behaves a little like black hole on the floor when he gets the ball. That's something not so easy to improve and lift on a higher level.

nvm

Mulhollanddrive · Post #368 » by **Mulhollanddrive** » Tue May 10, 2016 5:07 am

If we get unlucky with a pick 6 or 7, we might have to take on that risk-reward profile.

Post #369 » by **Qwigglez** » Tue May 10, 2016 10:27 am

Only another week before the draft lottery. I mean how can we not win the lottery with this face representing us...

Waylay13 · Post #370 » by **Waylay13** » Tue May 10, 2016 1:55 pm

Because we are the Phoenix Suns. When it comes to the draft we are one of the oldest teams in pro sports never to have gotten a #1 pick.

jcsunsfan · Post #371 » by **jcsunsfan** » Tue May 10, 2016 4:01 pm

7th pick, here we come. We are the most unlucky franchise there is with regard to the lottery and coin flips. We lose every one.

BTW. Everyone handles expectations differently. Some think that optimism some how sends out good vibes in stuff like this. I prefer to be a pessimist and then pleasantly surprised. That's my rule in life--low expectations with regard to blind luck, but give people the benefit of the doubt.

jcsunsfan · Post #372 » by **jcsunsfan** » Tue May 10, 2016 4:40 pm

Waylay13 wrote:Because we are the Phoenix Suns. When it comes to the draft we are one of the oldest teams in pro sports never to have gotten a #1 pick.

The football Cardinals have not had an overall #1 pick since 1958. Of course, it doesn't have the same impact in football. The impact of one player is so much more significant in a sport where only 5 players are on the court at one time.

Post #373 » by **bwgood77** » Tue May 10, 2016 4:48 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:7th pick, here we come. We are the most unlucky franchise there is with regard to the lottery and coin flips. We lose every one.

BTW. Everyone handles expectations differently. Some think that optimism some how sends out good vibes in stuff like this. I prefer to be a pessimist and then pleasantly surprised. That's my rule in life--low expectations with regard to blind luck, but give people the benefit of the doubt.

I am when it comes to random stuff like that, but when it comes to the type of thing where vibes CAN matter, like a crowd at a game feeling like their team is going to blow it and lose, I think that can have an impact on the way the team feels and plays. I think crowd support certainly can help teams play better.

jcsunsfan · Post #374 » by **jcsunsfan** » Tue May 10, 2016 5:54 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:7th pick, here we come. We are the most unlucky franchise there is with regard to the lottery and coin flips. We lose every one.

BTW. Everyone handles expectations differently. Some think that optimism some how sends out good vibes in stuff like this. I prefer to be a pessimist and then pleasantly surprised. That's my rule in life--low expectations with regard to blind luck, but give people the benefit of the doubt.

I am when it comes to random stuff like that, but when it comes to the type of thing where vibes CAN matter, like a crowd at a game feeling like their team is going to blow it and lose, I think that can have an impact on the way the team feels and plays. I think crowd support certainly can help teams play better.

Totally agree.

NavLDO · Post #375 » by **NavLDO** » Tue May 10, 2016 10:21 pm

Lock up your babies (...or Frank Lee's...); Nav has returned from his 3-4 week annual vacation to NFL Draft-land. Sorry, but the NFL Draft has been my 'Christmas' for 16 years now, which includes a week or two burying through notes, scrubbing the Web, and such prior to the Draft, followed by 7-10 days discussing, well, everything we spend time doing during this up-coming time for the Suns.

So yeah, sorry to disappoint those that were hoping and praying I wouldn't come back...what's that you say? I'm so insignificant that you didn't even realize I was gone??? :oops:

Guess I shouldn't have such a high opinion of myself and my perceived impact to the forum....

NavLDO · Post #376 » by **NavLDO** » Tue May 10, 2016 11:51 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Waylay13 wrote:I really like TJ as a player who can come in and score in bunches but I think is best suited as a 6th man that will come in and score kind of Cedric Ceballos was in 93. If the Suns can pick up a player who would be all around better then him in the draft as long as he was better. There are 3 (4 if you count Simmons as a small forward) players in the draft who I think have the possibility of being a better all around player then TJ at small forward and they are Ingram, Brown and Luwawu. I think Brown maybe a Marion lite type of player who maybe able to spend some time at the 2, 3 and even a little time at the 4 in a small ball line up.

Think of a line up Bledsoe, Knight, Booker, Brown and Davis; they would be very quick and could score and rebound from all over the floor about the biggest knock on them is the passing. Heck if you were to move Knight and put Bogdanovic in I think you would be in even better shape.

I still don't know why you think Brown will be better than Warren. If Warren was coming out in this draft he would likely go higher than Brown.

Warren was far better across the board in college and is bigger (at least according to their heights and weights on sports-ref).

Warren as a frosh: 63% from 2, 52% from 3 (overall 62%), 12 pts, 4.2 rebounds, 1.2 steals in 27 minutes (but far from #1 option - came off bench much or most of year)

Warren as a soph: 58% from 2, 27% from 3 (overall 52.5%) 25 pts, 7 rebounds, 1.8 steals in 35 minutes and won ACC player of the year over Jabari Parker

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/tj-warren-1.html

Warren basically proved he was an ELITE short AND mid range game player and the only fear was why did his 3 pt shooting decline so much, but now it is back up to 40% in his 2nd year in the NBA. His overall % likely dropped as as a soph primarily from being best scorer in ACC, so always drew double and sometimes triple teams.

Brown as a frosh: 48% from 2 (and finishing is supposed to be his GREAT offensive game), 29% from 3, (43% overall), 14.6 pts, 5.4 rebounds, .8 steals on 27 minutes a game

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jaylen-brown-1.html

Steals are supposed to be good indication of translation. Brown also fouls a ton.

But basically, Brown put up slightly higher #s but on FAR less efficiency than Warren as a freshman, and Brown was the main go to guy, while Warren was mostly coming off the bench (did start some though).

Warren also played in a WAY tougher conference. I just think if Brown had THIS much trouble scoring in the PAC12, how is that going to look against NBA defenders?

IF Brown can turn into a great NBA defender, his upside is probably Michael Kidd Gilchrist, though MKG shot 49% in college, with 53.5% from 2 and 25.5% from 3 and his big knock is shooting..but he still is even much more efficient offensively than Brown, and the big knock on MKG in the NBA IS his offense. It's finally coming around a bit in year 4, but he is supposed to be as hard as worker as there is.

Brown measures very similar to MKG but isn't quite as highly thought of as MKG was as a prospect.

There is just a lot that scares me about the guy.

Though I hope I'm wrong if we draft him.

I admit that I am a bigger Brown fan than most, and probably more than he deserves. That said, Tucker is in the last year of his deal, so having two 'good-but-not-great' SFs, with both being able to play some 'small-ball" at the 4 would, while the other stays at the 3, wouldn't be a bad deal, IMO.

Of course, then the argument lies in "do you waste a top 5 pick on a 6th Man." Normally, I'd say 'no', but in a relatively weak draft, there may only be 3-4 'surefire' starter-level players. I'm not saying that none of these guys COULD develop into starters; I'm just saying that there are a lot of boom/bust types.

And even after 3-4 weeks away from the forum, I'm still of the mindset that I would be perfect fine in taking 3 PFs in the 1st Rd--a traditional 4 like Chriss/Sabonis, a swing 3/4 like Brown or Prince, and a PF/C like Labissiere.

Post #377 » by **bwgood77** » Wed May 11, 2016 12:14 am

NavLDO wrote:Lock up your babies (...or Frank Lee's...); Nav has returned from his 3-4 week annual vacation to NFL Draft-land. Sorry, but the NFL Draft has been my 'Christmas' for 16 years now, which includes a week or two burying through notes, scrubbing the Web, and such prior to the Draft, followed by 7-10 days discussing, well, everything we spend time doing during this up-coming time for the Suns.

So yeah, sorry to disappoint those that were hoping and praying I wouldn't come back...what's that you say? I'm so insignificant that you didn't even realize I was gone??? Guess I shouldn't have such a high opinion of myself and my perceived impact to the forum....

Scrubbing through draft notes you may have not looked at the top prospects, but if you did, what were your thoughts on Joey Bosa?

Post #378 » by **bwgood77** » Wed May 11, 2016 12:17 am

NavLDO wrote:I admit that I am a bigger Brown fan than most, and probably more than he deserves. That said, Tucker is in the last year of his deal, so having two 'good-but-not-great' SFs, with both being able to play some 'small-ball" at the 4 would, while the other stays at the 3, wouldn't be a bad deal, IMO.

Of course, then the argument lies in "do you waste a top 5 pick on a 6th Man." Normally, I'd say 'no', but in a relatively weak draft, there may only be 3-4 'surefire' starter-level players. I'm not saying that none of these guys COULD develop into starters; I'm just saying that there are a lot of boom/bust types.

And even after 3-4 weeks away from the forum, I'm still of the mindset that I would be perfect fine in taking 3 PFs in the 1st Rd--a traditional 4 like Chriss/Sabonis, a swing 3/4 like Brown or Prince, and a PF/C like Labissiere.

I'd be fine taking 3 PFs as well, though I'd probably prefer two plus a wing. It's beginning to look like there might be some good PFs and Centers in the mid first next year, and especially some good 3s and 4s at the very top. Also TONS of point guards.

But I think it's just too important in the league now to have great shooters all over the floor that a guy like Brown is almost unplayable due to that.

saintEscaton · Post #379 » by **saintEscaton** » Wed May 11, 2016 12:47 am

bwgood77 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:Lock up your babies (...or Frank Lee's...); Nav has returned from his 3-4 week annual vacation to NFL Draft-land. Sorry, but the NFL Draft has been my 'Christmas' for 16 years now, which includes a week or two burying through notes, scrubbing the Web, and such prior to the Draft, followed by 7-10 days discussing, well, everything we spend time doing during this up-coming time for the Suns.

So yeah, sorry to disappoint those that were hoping and praying I wouldn't come back...what's that you say? I'm so insignificant that you didn't even realize I was gone??? Guess I shouldn't have such a high opinion of myself and my perceived impact to the forum....

Scrubbing through draft notes you may have not looked at the top prospects, but if you did, what were your thoughts on Joey Bosa?

If I were the Bolts would have taken Jalen Ramsey who was the best blue chip safety prospect since Eric Berry. I think Bosa will be more like Chris Long than JJ Watt, and I think he's strictly a 4-3 DE, not sure how scheme flexible he is as a 3-4 OLB

Post #380 » by **bwgood77** » Wed May 11, 2016 1:29 am

saintEscaton wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:Lock up your babies (...or Frank Lee's...); Nav has returned from his 3-4 week annual vacation to NFL Draft-land. Sorry, but the NFL Draft has been my 'Christmas' for 16 years now, which includes a week or two burying through notes, scrubbing the Web, and such prior to the Draft, followed by 7-10 days discussing, well, everything we spend time doing during this up-coming time for the Suns.

So yeah, sorry to disappoint those that were hoping and praying I wouldn't come back...what's that you say? I'm so insignificant that you didn't even realize I was gone??? Guess I shouldn't have such a high opinion of myself and my perceived impact to the forum....

Scrubbing through draft notes you may have not looked at the top prospects, but if you did, what were your thoughts on Joey Bosa?

If I were the Bolts would have taken Jalen Ramsey who was the best blue chip safety prospect since Eric Berry. I think Bosa will be more like Chris Long than JJ Watt, and I think he's strictly a 4-3 DE, not sure how scheme flexible he is as a 3-4 OLB

There was a lot of talk about Ramsey, and I personally kind of wanted them to go OL, but they ended up addressing that in FA (and of course the Tunsil stuff came out). But they played sub packages on D and were not necessarily in a 3-4 on 70% of their plays last year. I think they will use him in different ways.

It's unfair to compare anyone to JJ Watt though. He might be the best defensive lineman ever. Jalen Ramsey only had like 3 ints his whole college career too. Perhaps partially to the Revis thing where no one throws there, but that is a very small number for guys to take with basically the overall first pick (since the top 2 were QBs lower on most big boards).

If we keep the 4th pick, who do you want to take?