Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion

[bwgood77]

Pass 1st PG's are a dying breed in the new NBA, and thats because they just dont work. They've been phased out. Same way having a huge hulking 250+ pound 7 footer playing Center has. The league is now all about having your best player run the point no matter the position. Having the ball in their hands right away is all that matters. Let them decide if they can score or if they cant, since they are the best player on the squad, chances are they are drawing multiple defenders, leaving someone open for the pass. Thats why you see teams winning that employ a shoot-1st PG. Curry/Irving/Lillard/Westbrook, they all can score better than they can distribute. The only real (Starting) pass-1st PG's left in the league are Rondo and Rubio. Any other young up-and-coming pass 1st PG only has a few seasons in the league before they are thrown to the wayside.

Kendall Marshall had the size and pedigree to be a great pass 1st PG, and where is he? Same goes for Tyler Ennis. MCW was a rookie of the year, and now he is just trade filler. Teams value the ability to score and cant afford to have players on the floor that can make a bucket. They become a liability. Nash was a very rare breed in that he could have been a shooting PG, but decided to create 1st and if all else failed, drain a shot.

If i was Coach, i would have Booker running the point. He is our future and best player. His ability to score is the reason he is now constantly drawing multiple defenders on each possession. If he cant hit the shot, then there will be someone open that can, hence why you surround him with shooters (Bledsoe/Warren/Chriss/Bender) and not the guys who cant hit an open shot to save their lives (Tucker/Len).

Its like whats going on in Houston (and the better half of the league). Is Harden a PG? Nope. He is the best player on the team, so the ball is in his hands and he runs the offense, thus making him a PG, instead of having a much weaker player like PatBev doing so. Same thing as OKC and Westbrook. Same as Cleveland and Lebron. Giannis is Milwaukee.

I think it really all just depends on the roster makeup.

I knew Nash wouldn't work with Kobe because Kobe dominated the ball and for all intents and purposes, was basically the PG. Fisher was more of just as spot up shooter who occasionally brought the ball up, or even if he usually did, after halfcourt it goes straight to Kobe.

You are almost always going to run your offense to a large degree through your best player. Kyrie isn't the main ball handler in Cleveland, LeBron is. I would call LeBron the Pt Forward and then they basically just have two shooting guards.

I didn't think the Bulls would work well with three high usage guards that are best with the ball in their hands, but it is working. Rondo is getting almost 9 assists per game and only shooting 36% but they are killing it as a team so far.

But many good teams have pass first point guards, the Clippers being one of them. John Wall and the Wizards being another (he just has no talent around him).

Harden and LeBron are both averaging over 10 assists this year, but yes, they are great scorers too.

Tim Frazier is 5th in assists. Indiana went for a pass first PG this year and Atlanta usually plays with a pass first PG.

Another big reason the Warriors work so well is that Green averages over 7 assists a game at PF.

I would call Lowry and Conley both pass first, even though they don't rack up a ton of assists.

Schroeder is pass first.

I've always hated having ANY players that can't shoot outside of maybe your center, but I really hate having a guys like Knight who can't really shoot or pass. And like I said I don't mind centers that can't shoot (Chandler for example) if they don't shoot. That's why it doesn't make sense that Len is even shooting the ball much at all.

[Saberestar]

I don't think he can do that though, especially in the playoffs. No one has cared about shutting down Rubio for his entire career because the Wolves have always been bad. No one's ever needed to gameplan them. In the playoffs things will be much worse for him with teams just begging him to shoot long 2s and 3s. They wouldn't even have to bother rim protecting much with him because he'll brick those layups more often than not.

And that's the other unique thing about Rubio. He's been in the league for six years and hasn't really improved.

I don't know that a team can go deep into the playoffs with Rubio as their PG. It probably depends on whether or not he was playing with a stacked team or not.

But I am quite certain Knight will not play a key role on a playoff team that makes a deep run. They both are shooting 33.3% this year. Rubio is a career 36.8% shooter so that is extremely bad, but Knight is a 41.5% career shooter and that is pretty terrible. In his three years in Phx, he shot 35.7% after the trade deadline his first year, 41.5% last year, and is at 33.3% this year. On top of the terrible shooting on a TON of shots (at least Rubio barely shoots), he doesn't pass much. His career ast/to ratio is barely better than 1.5-1. This year Knight is averaging 2.5 assists and 3 turnovers a night on 33.3% shooting. He will get better, but that's obviously not good.

Rubio has over a 3-1 ast/to ratio and plays great D.

Having said all that, I wouldn't necessarily want Rubio as our PG of the future, but would swap the remaining contracts of him and Knight in a heartbeat.

What I would like most about having him is that I know he would get Bender, Chriss, Booker and Warren the ball a ton and rarely take any shots for himself. Something I'd welcome about now.

Great post. Rubio plays very good defense and he barely shoots the ball and that would mean higher percentage shots for the rest of the team.

[OGBAH]

Vucevic

[MathiasPW]

Pass 1st PG's are a dying breed in the new NBA, and thats because they just dont work. They've been phased out. Same way having a huge hulking 250+ pound 7 footer playing Center has. The league is now all about having your best player run the point no matter the position. Having the ball in their hands right away is all that matters. Let them decide if they can score or if they cant, since they are the best player on the squad, chances are they are drawing multiple defenders, leaving someone open for the pass. Thats why you see teams winning that employ a shoot-1st PG. Curry/Irving/Lillard/Westbrook, they all can score better than they can distribute. The only real (Starting) pass-1st PG's left in the league are Rondo and Rubio. Any other young up-and-coming pass 1st PG only has a few seasons in the league before they are thrown to the wayside.

Kendall Marshall had the size and pedigree to be a great pass 1st PG, and where is he? Same goes for Tyler Ennis. MCW was a rookie of the year, and now he is just trade filler. Teams value the ability to score and cant afford to have players on the floor that can make a bucket. They become a liability. Nash was a very rare breed in that he could have been a shooting PG, but decided to create 1st and if all else failed, drain a shot.

If i was Coach, i would have Booker running the point. He is our future and best player. His ability to score is the reason he is now constantly drawing multiple defenders on each possession. If he cant hit the shot, then there will be someone open that can, hence why you surround him with shooters (Bledsoe/Warren/Chriss/Bender) and not the guys who cant hit an open shot to save their lives (Tucker/Len).

Its like whats going on in Houston (and the better half of the league). Is Harden a PG? Nope. He is the best player on the team, so the ball is in his hands and he runs the offense, thus making him a PG, instead of having a much weaker player like PatBev doing so. Same thing as OKC and Westbrook. Same as Cleveland and Lebron. Giannis is Milwaukee.

That's so unfair...you completely ignored the future Hairstyle HOFer Elfrid Payton

[bwgood77]

What would people think of this trade? http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=gt355yw

Knight/Len/Tucker for Kanter/Morrow/Christon?

OKC desperately needs a scoring guard, and they could let Tucker go or deal him later, and decide what to do with Len later.

I'd also do a Knight/Tucker for Kanter/Morrow and look to deal Len elsewhere.

This would give us a second unit of Ulis/Morrow/Bender/Chriss and Kanter. Kanter is offense, but on second unit the offense is probably more key than defense. Ulis gets everyone involved instead of Knight dribbling and Len throwing up shots and missing (Kanter great offensively).

Morrow is a career 42% 3 pt shooter and is expiring so could decide what to do in offseason with him, but he could just spot up on perimeter to spread the floor for Kanter in middle.

[blee732]

Pass 1st PG's are a dying breed in the new NBA, and thats because they just dont work. They've been phased out. Same way having a huge hulking 250+ pound 7 footer playing Center has. The league is now all about having your best player run the point no matter the position. Having the ball in their hands right away is all that matters. Let them decide if they can score or if they cant, since they are the best player on the squad, chances are they are drawing multiple defenders, leaving someone open for the pass. Thats why you see teams winning that employ a shoot-1st PG. Curry/Irving/Lillard/Westbrook, they all can score better than they can distribute. The only real (Starting) pass-1st PG's left in the league are Rondo and Rubio. Any other young up-and-coming pass 1st PG only has a few seasons in the league before they are thrown to the wayside.

I think these are good points. Personally, I love pass-first PGs that rack up assists but in today's game you need a PG who can score to put enough stress on the defense to force them to make tradeoffs. If they know you're passing it 90% of the time, they can more easily plan against it.

I wouldn't really think of it has having a "shoot-first" PG though, more that you need a PG that is constantly attacking the defense and forcing them into committing to one thing or the other. Nash was effective b/c he would constantly probe and poke at the defense and eventually make them either switch or leave someone open. From that point, some players are better are creating space for others (Nash) while others are better at creating space for themselves (Lillard), either is effective.

The problem we have is that we dont have PGs that put much stress on the D in either way. Neither Bled nor Knight are that type of player. Using the recent champs as an example, I think Bled fits best in a Delladova role while Knight fits in a JR Smith role. Neither should be in that Lebron/Kyrie role where they run the offense (I agree Booker is the best suited for that right now).

I'm hoping we find our PG of the future in this upcoming draft. Seems like it's loaded with PG talent.

[blee732]

What would people think of this trade? http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=gt355yw

Knight/Len/Tucker for Kanter/Morrow/Christon?

OKC desperately needs a scoring guard, and they could let Tucker go or deal him later, and decide what to do with Len later.

I'd also do a Knight/Tucker for Kanter/Morrow and look to deal Len elsewhere.

This would give us a second unit of Ulis/Morrow/Bender/Chriss and Kanter. Kanter is offense, but on second unit the offense is probably more key than defense. Ulis gets everyone involved instead of Knight dribbling and Len throwing up shots and missing (Kanter great offensively).

Morrow is a career 42% 3 pt shooter and is expiring so could decide what to do in offseason with him, but he could just spot up on perimeter to spread the floor for Kanter in middle.

I would rather keep Len b/c we have more options with him in the offseason. If he signs elsewhere, we can match, pass, or attempt a sign and trade. Kanter doesn't seem like a long term fit with our young guys, and I think it will be hard to find a taker for his contract.

[lilfishi22]

What would people think of this trade? http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=gt355yw

Knight/Len/Tucker for Kanter/Morrow/Christon?

OKC desperately needs a scoring guard, and they could let Tucker go or deal him later, and decide what to do with Len later.

I'd also do a Knight/Tucker for Kanter/Morrow and look to deal Len elsewhere.

This would give us a second unit of Ulis/Morrow/Bender/Chriss and Kanter. Kanter is offense, but on second unit the offense is probably more key than defense. Ulis gets everyone involved instead of Knight dribbling and Len throwing up shots and missing (Kanter great offensively).

Morrow is a career 42% 3 pt shooter and is expiring so could decide what to do in offseason with him, but he could just spot up on perimeter to spread the floor for Kanter in middle.

I thought Oladipo was suppose to be that guy? Doesn't seem to make sense to me to have Westbrook (elite scorer), Oladipo (OK scorer) and Knight (OK scorer) all in the one back court.

[bwgood77]

What would people think of this trade? http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=gt355yw

Knight/Len/Tucker for Kanter/Morrow/Christon?

OKC desperately needs a scoring guard, and they could let Tucker go or deal him later, and decide what to do with Len later.

I'd also do a Knight/Tucker for Kanter/Morrow and look to deal Len elsewhere.

This would give us a second unit of Ulis/Morrow/Bender/Chriss and Kanter. Kanter is offense, but on second unit the offense is probably more key than defense. Ulis gets everyone involved instead of Knight dribbling and Len throwing up shots and missing (Kanter great offensively).

Morrow is a career 42% 3 pt shooter and is expiring so could decide what to do in offseason with him, but he could just spot up on perimeter to spread the floor for Kanter in middle.

I thought Oladipo was suppose to be that guy? Doesn't seem to make sense to me to have Westbrook (elite scorer), Oladipo (OK scorer) and Knight (OK scorer) all in the one back court.

I'd bring Knight off the bench. Maybe occasionally play all three just for more shooting but just always have two on the floor. With Knight's usage being much lower (considering Westbrook plays about 35+ minutes a game, he doesn't get to handle the ball THAT much, and if he ever shared with Payne he could bring it up the court. Just an idea though to get rid of our three players we might want to lose and add a solid offensive backup center.

[lilfishi22]

What would people think of this trade? http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=gt355yw

Knight/Len/Tucker for Kanter/Morrow/Christon?

OKC desperately needs a scoring guard, and they could let Tucker go or deal him later, and decide what to do with Len later.

I'd also do a Knight/Tucker for Kanter/Morrow and look to deal Len elsewhere.

This would give us a second unit of Ulis/Morrow/Bender/Chriss and Kanter. Kanter is offense, but on second unit the offense is probably more key than defense. Ulis gets everyone involved instead of Knight dribbling and Len throwing up shots and missing (Kanter great offensively).

Morrow is a career 42% 3 pt shooter and is expiring so could decide what to do in offseason with him, but he could just spot up on perimeter to spread the floor for Kanter in middle.

I thought Oladipo was suppose to be that guy? Doesn't seem to make sense to me to have Westbrook (elite scorer), Oladipo (OK scorer) and Knight (OK scorer) all in the one back court.

I'd bring Knight off the bench. Maybe occasionally play all three just for more shooting but just always have two on the floor. With Knight's usage being much lower (considering Westbrook plays about 35+ minutes a game, he doesn't get to handle the ball THAT much, and if he ever shared with Payne he could bring it up the court. Just an idea though to get rid of our three players we might want to lose and add a solid offensive backup center.

It's pretty poor value we're getting back but it sounds about right. Neither Len nor Knight have a ton of value.

[Mr Puddles]

How about W.Cauley-Stein? He just registered a DNP coach's decision - doesn't seem to be part of Joeger's rotation. The kings also just drafted to Cs. Lawson hasn't been productive so far and Knight would actually be a good fit next to Afflalo.

[Kerrsed]

I'd approach the Bucks with a Knight for Henson offer straight up. They both have very similar contracts and could both fit a need with their new team.

They originally didnt want a shooting PG like Knight and ditched him for MCW. Now with The Greek Alphabet playing point-forward, i think they would be more open to having some firepower at the PG spot over Dellavedova.

Henson would give us a presence in the paint at C, rebounding and defending the rim. He also would make Len a lot more expendable in trade.

Henson could be a less injury prone Noel for us. His Per-36 #'s for rebounding are an insane 16 rebounds (Over Lens 8.8)! He's currently only getting 14 MPG due to a stacked Bucks rotation, but still his numbers are comparable to Lens at over 20 MPG, but with added defense.

Trade #1 Knight to MIL for Henson

As for trade #2...... I'd call the Kings and tell them they have once chance to say yes. Bledsoe for WCS/Gay/2017 1st unprotected

Then Flip Gay to a 3rd team. Trade off Tucker and Chandler to contenders for young pieces and draft picks.

Ulis
Booker/Dudley
Warren/Bender
Chriss/Henson
WCS/Chandler

The season will be written off as a loss, but we can get plenty of real-world experience for our youngsters. Go after a top of the draft PG like Fox or Fultz.

[batsmasher]

Henson could be a less injury prone Noel for us. His Per-36 #'s for rebounding are an insane 16 rebounds (Over Lens 8.8)! He's currently only getting 14 MPG due to a stacked Bucks rotation, but still his numbers are comparable to Lens at over 20 MPG, but with added defense.

Trade #1 Knight to MIL for Henson

Stacked Bucks rotation with greats such as Miles 'Plumdog' Plumlee starting. Surely if they thought Henson was half decent they'd start him over the Plumdog. It's not like Plumlee is in there for his offense.

WCS makes more sense to me as being in a bad position. Boogie is a natural C. 2K is a natural C. Both of those guys have been heavily invested in by the Kings.

Also, I'm more persuaded by WCS since he went to some college the Suns really seem to like.

[Kerrsed]

Henson could be a less injury prone Noel for us. His Per-36 #'s for rebounding are an insane 16 rebounds (Over Lens 8.8)! He's currently only getting 14 MPG due to a stacked Bucks rotation, but still his numbers are comparable to Lens at over 20 MPG, but with added defense.

Trade #1 Knight to MIL for Henson

Stacked Bucks rotation with greats such as Miles 'Plumdog' Plumlee starting. Surely if they thought Henson was half decent they'd start him over the Plumdog. It's not like Plumlee is in there for his offense.

Who knows what Kidd is doing with that rotation. I mean Monroe SHOULD be getting the start over Plumlee at C, and they moved Henson down to PF, where he has to compete for minutes with Jabari Parker. So yeah, when i say stacked rotation, im speaking of the bigs, who are: Miles Plumlee/Greg Monroe/Thon Maker/Jabari Parker/Mirza Teletovic

[Zelaznyrules]

I'd approach the Bucks with a Knight for Henson offer straight up. They both have very similar contracts and could both fit a need with their new team.

They originally didnt want a shooting PG like Knight and ditched him for MCW. Now with The Greek Alphabet playing point-forward, i think they would be more open to having some firepower at the PG spot over Dellavedova.

Henson would give us a presence in the paint at C, rebounding and defending the rim. He also would make Len a lot more expendable in trade.

Henson could be a less injury prone Noel for us. His Per-36 #'s for rebounding are an insane 16 rebounds (Over Lens 8.8)! He's currently only getting 14 MPG due to a stacked Bucks rotation, but still his numbers are comparable to Lens at over 20 MPG, but with added defense.

Trade #1 Knight to MIL for Henson

As for trade #2...... I'd call the Kings and tell them they have once chance to say yes. Bledsoe for WCS/Gay/2017 1st unprotected

Then Flip Gay to a 3rd team. Trade off Tucker and Chandler to contenders for young pieces and draft picks.

Ulis
Booker/Dudley
Warren/Bender
Chriss/Henson
WCS/Chandler

The season will be written off as a loss, but we can get plenty of real-world experience for our youngsters. Go after a top of the draft PG like Fox or Fultz.

Well, as I'm sure you already know, that's not likely to happen. But with the exception of necessarily going after a PG in the draft, I'd vote yes to everything here. Henson isn't a great solution but picking up an unprotected 1st from the Kings plus whatever we can get later on in a Gay trade along with the Tucker/Chandler deals is very appealing. And playing the young ones heavy minutes could end being the real payoff of all the moves.

[lilfishi22]

Bledsoe isn't worth an unprotected 1st from the Kings alone

[Zelaznyrules]

Bledsoe isn't worth an unprotected 1st from the Kings alone

I disagree. At this point in the season, he's easily worth it IMO. Late in the season, when he can no longer have much of an impact on their final standing, perhaps not. But right now, he's liable to add enough wins to that lineup to drop that pick far enough to make it feasible. I'm not saying the entire deal is feasible, just contesting your point that Bledsoe by himself is not worth the unprotected number 1 pick.

[lilfishi22]

Bledsoe isn't worth an unprotected 1st from the Kings alone

I disagree. At this point in the season, he's easily worth it IMO. Late in the season, when he can no longer have much of an impact on their final standing, perhaps not. But right now, he's liable to add enough wins to that lineup to drop that pick far enough to make it feasible. I'm not saying the deal is feasible, just contesting your point that Bledsoe by himself is not worth the unprotected number 1 pick.

Bledsoe is a known quantity. He'll give you 18/5/5 which is pretty good but he's not a leader, he's likely in his prime already, he has a history of injuries and he has a style that's doesn't age well. The King's 1st round pick could very well be a top 3 pick and with a draft heavy in PG talent, there's a good chance you could replace Bledsoe with a similarly talented but less experienced player.

I don't think he's worth a top pick in the next draft.

[Villalobos]

Pelicans keep losing.

I think Dell's got one more dumb, nervous trade in him before he's finally fired

[Kerrsed]

Bledsoe isn't worth an unprotected 1st from the Kings alone

I disagree. At this point in the season, he's easily worth it IMO. Late in the season, when he can no longer have much of an impact on their final standing, perhaps not. But right now, he's liable to add enough wins to that lineup to drop that pick far enough to make it feasible. I'm not saying the deal is feasible, just contesting your point that Bledsoe by himself is not worth the unprotected number 1 pick.

Bledsoe is a known quantity. He'll give you 18/5/5 which is pretty good but he's not a leader, he's likely in his prime already, he has a history of injuries and he has a style that's doesn't age well. The King's 1st round pick could very well be a top 3 pick and with a draft heavy in PG talent, there's a good chance you could replace Bledsoe with a similarly talented but less experienced player.

I don't think he's worth a top pick in the next draft.

Yeah, he TOTALLY isnt worth the pick.....but i screwed up, as they dont have the pick anymore. Their 2016 pick was traded to Cleveland for JJ HICKSON! But even then it was top 10 protected.......but they also traded the right to swap picks (1-10) with the 76ers (Nik Stauskas/Jason Thompson/Carl Landry/two pick swap options and an unprotected future first to Philadelphia for capspace).

People forget, this is the KINGS we are talking about. They are not the smartest FO when it comes to making trades. So just because you dont think Bledsoe is worth it, other might, specially if it helps keep their star player happy and in a Kings jersey!