2017 Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Whoa. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1573025

I would discourage Suns fans from providing any comments. Let that flame burn. If the market's this hot, we should... um... do it?

This is super interesting:

#8, Kuz, Lance, and O'Quinn. IIRC, Phoenix was interested in Kuz at the deadline. If Phoenix nabs either Fox or Ball at #4, I like this move a lot for them. I like it even more for Phoenix if they get one of Ball/ Fox at #4, then one of Isaac, Tatum, or Jackson falls to #8. Maybe work in a third team like Portland or Utah to send a late first for O'Quinn (send the first to Phoenix).

I don't think Phoenix trades Bledsoe before or during the draft unless they are full set on taking one of Fox/ Ball (and there's a decent chance both are taken in the top 3). I think it's more likely that Phoenix wants to see how free agency plays out, because they can probably get really good value for Bledsoe once teams lose out on their top FA prospects or have a major player walk.

and this..

Bledsoe/? for Middleton/?

Depending on those ?s that would incredibly solid for PHX, IMO. Imagine taking Fox at 4, and swinging this kind of deal:

Fox - Booker - Middleton - Chriss - Bender (for now, until a more appealing C option comes into play)

That's a really solid team geared towards the future

These are fans of these teams, apparently perfectly willing to trade mid-lotto picks for a player who, as far as I can tell, is the best player potentially available for trade not named Jimmy Butler. I haven't seen anyone on that thread expressing skepticism about Bled's value. It's usually the FOs and casual fans that are eager to win now and the die hard fans (i.e. realgm posters) that prefer to play the long game. Here, it seems that other teams' fans may all be on the same page.

As far as I'm concerned, we have two starting point guards on this roster in Bled and Ulis. I'm happy going forward with both of them or with Ulis as the starter. But if this kind of value is up for offer, now is the time.

I'm not sure whether the FO is down for trading Bled. I suspect they'd like to acquire a second lottery pick, as I'm sure McD's draft board is unconventional. I'm also sure they won't commit to trading the #4 before finding out whether there's a last minute surprise reminiscent of Curry in '09. I expect draft day to be interesting. I think there will be a lot of deals made this year.

[bwgood77]

Whoa. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1573025

I would discourage Suns fans from providing any comments. Let that flame burn. If the market's this hot, we should... um... do it?

This is super interesting:

#8, Kuz, Lance, and O'Quinn. IIRC, Phoenix was interested in Kuz at the deadline. If Phoenix nabs either Fox or Ball at #4, I like this move a lot for them. I like it even more for Phoenix if they get one of Ball/ Fox at #4, then one of Isaac, Tatum, or Jackson falls to #8. Maybe work in a third team like Portland or Utah to send a late first for O'Quinn (send the first to Phoenix).

I don't think Phoenix trades Bledsoe before or during the draft unless they are full set on taking one of Fox/ Ball (and there's a decent chance both are taken in the top 3). I think it's more likely that Phoenix wants to see how free agency plays out, because they can probably get really good value for Bledsoe once teams lose out on their top FA prospects or have a major player walk.

and this..

Depending on those ?s that would incredibly solid for PHX, IMO. Imagine taking Fox at 4, and swinging this kind of deal:

Fox - Booker - Middleton - Chriss - Bender (for now, until a more appealing C option comes into play)

That's a really solid team geared towards the future

These are fans of these teams, apparently perfectly willing to trade mid-lotto picks for a player who, as far as I can tell, is the best player potentially available for trade not named Jimmy Butler. I haven't seen anyone on that thread expressing skepticism about Bled's value. It's usually the FOs and casual fans that are eager to win now and the die hard fans (i.e. realgm posters) that prefer to play the long game. Here, it seems that other teams' fans may all be on the same page.

As far as I'm concerned, we have two starting point guards on this roster in Bled and Ulis. I'm happy going forward with both of them or with Ulis as the starter. But if this kind of value is up for offer, now is the time.

I'm not sure whether the FO is down for trading Bled. I suspect they'd like to acquire a second lottery pick, as I'm sure McD's draft board is unconventional. I'm also sure they won't commit to trading the #4 before finding out whether there's a last minute surprise reminiscent of Curry in '09. I expect draft day to be interesting. I think there will be a lot of deals made this year.

There have always been skeptics of Bledsoes...a few in that thread you may have missed...worried about his knees... a Sixers poster said he would be hesitant to give up anything of value because of that. Makes sense with all their injuries and young team anyway.

I mention value will decline because suddenly after this draft if we go into next season, more young point guards enter the league, get experience, it's possible some young ones start to play better (Mudiay, Exum, etc) and then teams go forward with who they have and are less likely to inject a new player...at the same time..Bledsoe's value contract shortens and you get closer to extension time....

Then of course we risk injury. It just seems right now, that there are a handful of teams that would welcome Bledsoe over a rookie because they would rather compete and take the next step now (though McD may feel the same).

I go back and forth based on what I think the FO will do. At first I thought Sarver mentioned him as a part of our future with the "close to all star" part and speech to ticket holders, they had always talked about him as the leader and a part going forward, he has a year left on deal, etc.

BUT, then he gets benched, has more knee issues, the sunsbum friend thoughts from trainer, the speculation about us looking at and wanting point guards, no mention of him recently about being part of our core future..

It SEEMS like we are leaning towards trading him.

It's almost as if Sarver sat down with McD and McD said "Listen, if I'm GMing for the best team THIS year in order to make a case for my job, and if we wanted to make the playoffs, we should keep him."

"If I was GMing the team for the foreseeable future and wanted to build long term sustained success, considering his next contract, injury concerns, age of core, balance of power in west, etc, it would be the perfect time to sell high on Bledsoe and add even more nice pieces to our promising core going forward"

and Sarver finally firmly went in on option 2....and the Bledsoe talk shifted. Sometimes I feel like Sarver waffles game after game with how he feels....or at least did.

Like he used to always want to compete now...until last offseason he finally embraced the rebuild, but at times this season had that gut feeling pulling him back to accelerate getting a little over excited about how fast we could get to the playoffs again, and they basically sat down once again and had the above discussion.

[WeekapaugGroove]

This is super interesting:



and this..

These are fans of these teams, apparently perfectly willing to trade mid-lotto picks for a player who, as far as I can tell, is the best player potentially available for trade not named Jimmy Butler. I haven't seen anyone on that thread expressing skepticism about Bled's value. It's usually the FOs and casual fans that are eager to win now and the die hard fans (i.e. realgm posters) that prefer to play the long game. Here, it seems that other teams' fans may all be on the same page.

As far as I'm concerned, we have two starting point guards on this roster in Bled and Ulis. I'm happy going forward with both of them or with Ulis as the starter. But if this kind of value is up for offer, now is the time.

I'm not sure whether the FO is down for trading Bled. I suspect they'd like to acquire a second lottery pick, as I'm sure McD's draft board is unconventional. I'm also sure they won't commit to trading the #4 before finding out whether there's a last minute surprise reminiscent of Curry in '09. I expect draft day to be interesting. I think there will be a lot of deals made this year.

There have always been skeptics of Bledsoes...a few in that thread you may have missed...worried about his knees... a Sixers poster said he would be hesitant to give up anything of value because of that. Makes sense with all their injuries and young team anyway.

I mention value will decline because suddenly after this draft if we go into next season, more young point guards enter the league, get experience, it's possible some young ones start to play better (Mudiay, Exum, etc) and then teams go forward with who they have and are less likely to inject a new player...at the same time..Bledsoe's value contract shortens and you get closer to extension time....

Then of course we risk injury. It just seems right now, that there are a handful of teams that would welcome Bledsoe over a rookie because they would rather compete and take the next step now (though McD may feel the same).

I go back and forth based on what I think the FO will do. At first I thought Sarver mentioned him as a part of our future with the "close to all star" part and speech to ticket holders, they had always talked about him as the leader and a part going forward, he has a year left on deal, etc.

BUT, then he gets benched, has more knee issues, the sunsbum friend thoughts from trainer, the speculation about us looking at and wanting point guards, no mention of him recently about being part of our core future..

It SEEMS like we are leaning towards trading him.

It's almost as if Sarver sat down with McD and McD said "Listen, if I'm GMing for the best team THIS year in order to make a case for my job, and if we wanted to make the playoffs, we should keep him."

"If I was GMing the team for the foreseeable future and wanted to build long term sustained success, considering his next contract, injury concerns, age of core, balance of power in west, etc, it would be the perfect time to sell high on Bledsoe and add even more nice pieces to our promising core going forward"

and Sarver finally firmly went in on option 2....and the Bledsoe talk shifted. Sometimes I feel like Sarver waffles game after game with how he feels....or at least did.

Like he used to always want to compete now...until last offseason he finally embraced the rebuild, but at times this season had that gut feeling pulling him back to accelerate getting a little over excited about how fast we could get to the playoffs again, and they basically sat down once again and had the above discussion.

Very well put. This is a time to be decisive and forward thinking. If they plan on trading Bledsoe at any point the time is now because as you mention as it gets closer to the end of his contract his value decreases regardless of his play. That's not even factoring in the injury risk because if he hurts his knee again his value drops to nothing at all.

Another factor that doesn't get brought up is Bledsoe might want to be traded. They could have came to him and explained their plan is to go young and develop those guys the next couple of years. He might be thinking hey I'm in my prime right now and will be trying to earn another big pay day and would much prefer to do that on a team that's contending with vets that will make the game easier for him. If this is the case the Suns should absolutely grant his wish.

[Saberestar]

Yeah, I want to trade Bledsoe now too. It seems the best moment. I would accept even the #10 pick from Sacramento.

My biggest concern it is not his future contract or his knees...It is about his passing and vision. He doesn't read the game like other better players, and he has been strictly bad defensively this last season.

People talk about Booker and Warren being bellow average defenders (and probably they are right) but Bledsoe was not better than them on defense this season. He has the reputation because he was a good defender in the past, and he probably can be good again if he is motivated, but right now he is not .

[NTB]

Read on Twitter

[Mulhollanddrive]

Can we contend in 2020 if our best players are 21-23?

I think Sarver still wants Bledsoe and vets.

[sunsbum]

Who the hell was arguing with me a few weeks ago that TT was not overpaid.. we need to talk.

[itlnsunsfan]

It's ridiculous to me how undervalued Bledsoe is by our fans. He is an excellent player. SMH

[NTB]

It's ridiculous to me how undervalued Bledsoe is by our fans. He is an excellent player. SMH

[thamadkant]

It's ridiculous to me how undervalued Bledsoe is by our fans. He is an excellent player. SMH

He's a good player that doesnt fit with the team.'


If he fits, the team wouldn't be bottom 2 in the West, bottom 10 defense, bottom 3 assists rate in the league etc.

He would be tremendous on a team with 2 other stars that carry the team and have a system where he can be used to slash and go ISO when the team needs it.

[Saberestar]

Who the hell was arguing with me a few weeks ago that TT was not overpaid.. we need to talk.

That conversation was with me.

Thompson is a very good player, but he can not make anything against the GSW. Not a big deal, only LeBron and Irving are playing well against them.

If TT is overpaid then the 90% of the NBA is overpaid. He is a monster on the boards and defending the pick and roll...that has a lot of value around the league.

Miles Plumlee is getting $12.5M per year. THAT is overpaid.
Asik. Ajinca.Leonard.Mozgov......and all and all and all....

[Saberestar]

It's ridiculous to me how undervalued Bledsoe is by our fans. He is an excellent player. SMH

He's a good player that doesnt fit with the team.'


If he fits, the team wouldn't be bottom 2 in the West, bottom 10 defense, bottom 3 assists rate in the league etc.

He would be tremendous on a team with 2 other stars that carry the team and have a system where he can be used to slash and go ISO when the team needs it.

I agree.
He is a very good ISO player, but we do not have good facilitators around him.

He would be great in Utah next to Hayward, for example, and they are more "winning now" than us...but next to Booker and Warren he does not make sense if we want a succesful team in the future.

[Qwigglez]

I just watched the game 3 highlights of the Finals. I thought Lebron/Wade/Bosh was a cheat code, but Curry/Klay/Durant/Green is a super cheat code. I wonder if Bosh hadn't got those blood clots if Lebron/Wade/Bosh/Whiteside could overthrow the Warriors? Or are the Cavs a superior team than those Heat team?

Hoping Warriors at least lose some of their bench this offseason but I have a feeling Livingston might stay. Iggy and McGee will likely go elsewhere when they see that money.

And lastly, just for fun, three team trade to help the Cavs.

Spoiler:

Suns get-
Kyrie Irving
Channing Frye

Cavs get-
Eric Bledsoe
Jimmy Butler

Bulls get-
No 4 pick
Brandon Knight

Can Bledsoe/Butler/Lebron/Love do any better against the Warriors? More defense, but I feel Bledsoe/Butler aren't as dynamic as Irving.
I don't need to hear anything about none of those teams accepting the deal, or that you wouldn't trade the No 4 pick and Bledsoe for Irving. I just want to know if that team is more capable of beating the Warriors than the current Cavs team.

[NTB]

OMG please don't involve Kyrie Irving in Suns trade scenarios.

And I don't think that any collection of players could be enough to beat Warriors at the moment.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I just watched the game 3 highlights of the Finals. I thought Lebron/Wade/Bosh was a cheat code, but Curry/Klay/Durant/Green is a super cheat code. I wonder if Bosh hadn't got those blood clots if Lebron/Wade/Bosh/Whiteside could overthrow the Warriors? Or are the Cavs a superior team than those Heat team?

Hoping Warriors at least lose some of their bench this offseason but I have a feeling Livingston might stay. Iggy and McGee will likely go elsewhere when they see that money.

And lastly, just for fun, three team trade to help the Cavs.

Spoiler:

Suns get-
Kyrie Irving
Channing Frye

Cavs get-
Eric Bledsoe
Jimmy Butler

Bulls get-
No 4 pick
Brandon Knight

Can Bledsoe/Butler/Lebron/Love do any better against the Warriors? More defense, but I feel Bledsoe/Butler aren't as dynamic as Irving.
I don't need to hear anything about none of those teams accepting the deal, or that you wouldn't trade the No 4 pick and Bledsoe for Irving. I just want to know if that team is more capable of beating the Warriors than the current Cavs team.

I think it'll be interesting to see how the Cavs maneuver this offseason. If they want to beat the Warriors, they will probably have to make a few changes. Free agency isn't a viable option. Nor do they have draft assets to sell. Some of their contracts aren't marketable (Smith), some have small positive value (Thompson, Shumpert), but the only real value they can put on the table is Irving and Love. It's clear they need defense, versatility, length. I think it'll be harder to trade Irving, given that he's their draft pick and second best player and a fairly strong match with Lebron offensively. But assuming they can get real value for him, maybe? They'd be better with Conley rather than Irving, but I don't think either FO would be comfortable with the optics.

Bled is a candidate, due to his ability to take it up another notch defensively. But he doesn't have the length to really get under Curry's skin. Also, I'd be worried about his injury issues moreso if I'm the Cavs than if I'm just approaching contender status.

If I'm the Cavs, my #1 FA target is Michael Carter-Williams. Historically, he's given Curry fits. I care less about his offensive ineptitude with Lebron able to carry the offense from time to time. After that, I look to move Love. He's made positive contributions, but I'd rather have better, more versatile defenders. Could they somehow swing a trade for Kris Middleton or Nic Batum? As for rim protection, maybe WCS in a three-way?

[bwgood77]

I just watched the game 3 highlights of the Finals. I thought Lebron/Wade/Bosh was a cheat code, but Curry/Klay/Durant/Green is a super cheat code. I wonder if Bosh hadn't got those blood clots if Lebron/Wade/Bosh/Whiteside could overthrow the Warriors? Or are the Cavs a superior team than those Heat team?

Hoping Warriors at least lose some of their bench this offseason but I have a feeling Livingston might stay. Iggy and McGee will likely go elsewhere when they see that money.

And lastly, just for fun, three team trade to help the Cavs.

Spoiler:

Suns get-
Kyrie Irving
Channing Frye

Cavs get-
Eric Bledsoe
Jimmy Butler

Bulls get-
No 4 pick
Brandon Knight

Can Bledsoe/Butler/Lebron/Love do any better against the Warriors? More defense, but I feel Bledsoe/Butler aren't as dynamic as Irving.
I don't need to hear anything about none of those teams accepting the deal, or that you wouldn't trade the No 4 pick and Bledsoe for Irving. I just want to know if that team is more capable of beating the Warriors than the current Cavs team.

No, that wouldn't help them. To beat GS, you need to be able to be near to efficient as they are scoring, and losing Kyrie and adding two less efficient scorers, especially two ball dominant ones who mostly like to score as opposed to pass, don't help. Butler helps defensively, but that's it. Neither player is nearly as clutch as Irving, you kept them in the game last night with some crazy plays. Though Kyrie was 0-7 from 3 and had he hit just one of those, or if Korver wasn't clanking most of them down the stretch, the Cavs likely win.

[bwgood77]

I just watched the game 3 highlights of the Finals. I thought Lebron/Wade/Bosh was a cheat code, but Curry/Klay/Durant/Green is a super cheat code. I wonder if Bosh hadn't got those blood clots if Lebron/Wade/Bosh/Whiteside could overthrow the Warriors? Or are the Cavs a superior team than those Heat team?

Hoping Warriors at least lose some of their bench this offseason but I have a feeling Livingston might stay. Iggy and McGee will likely go elsewhere when they see that money.

And lastly, just for fun, three team trade to help the Cavs.

Spoiler:

Suns get-
Kyrie Irving
Channing Frye

Cavs get-
Eric Bledsoe
Jimmy Butler

Bulls get-
No 4 pick
Brandon Knight

Can Bledsoe/Butler/Lebron/Love do any better against the Warriors? More defense, but I feel Bledsoe/Butler aren't as dynamic as Irving.
I don't need to hear anything about none of those teams accepting the deal, or that you wouldn't trade the No 4 pick and Bledsoe for Irving. I just want to know if that team is more capable of beating the Warriors than the current Cavs team.

I think it'll be interesting to see how the Cavs maneuver this offseason. If they want to beat the Warriors, they will probably have to make a few changes. Free agency isn't a viable option. Nor do they have draft assets to sell. Some of their contracts aren't marketable (Smith), some have small positive value (Thompson, Shumpert), but the only real value they can put on the table is Irving and Love. It's clear they need defense, versatility, length. I think it'll be harder to trade Irving, given that he's their draft pick and second best player and a fairly strong match with Lebron offensively. But assuming they can get real value for him, maybe? They'd be better with Conley rather than Irving, but I don't think either FO would be comfortable with the optics.

Bled is a candidate, due to his ability to take it up another notch defensively. But he doesn't have the length to really get under Curry's skin. Also, I'd be worried about his injury issues moreso if I'm the Cavs than if I'm just approaching contender status.

If I'm the Cavs, my #1 FA target is Michael Carter-Williams. Historically, he's given Curry fits. I care less about his offensive ineptitude with Lebron able to carry the offense from time to time. After that, I look to move Love. He's made positive contributions, but I'd rather have better, more versatile defenders. Could they somehow swing a trade for Kris Middleton or Nic Batum? As for rim protection, maybe WCS in a three-way?

Any player that can't hit 3s is only going to put you at a bigger disadvantage against the Warriors. Regardless of your defense, they will find the open guy. They were missing more than usual last night it seemed so the Cavs hung in. But they get wide open looks against anyone with their size and ball movement. Middleton would be the only one of that group who would improve their chances.

[RaisingArizona]

It's ridiculous to me how undervalued Bledsoe is by our fans. He is an excellent player. SMH

Rich Paul

[Frank Lee]

Doesn't a team need effect the value of a player? Isn't there a need based value somewhere out there that does not necessarily equal out among teams? The Wiz needed a PF who could score and take some of the load off Wall... thus they picked up Morris to help their roster immediately. They gave up an expendable asset. And so far, it has not been a bad move for either team.

Once Bledsoe is officially on the table, his value will be determined. We can speculate all we want, but when a team comes calling, it really comes down to how many oranges you have for an apple. And, if anything, I think this board over values draft picks. Bled is certainly worth a tangible asset, but one can argue how tangible a draft pick is. Many danced around when McD got a couple picks for Dragic.... but there is no way to tell if that ends up a good deal or not for some time. Sure, the getting something for nothing argument is valid... but suppose McD stroked the Dragon and dealt Bled instead... wouldnt the result be the same? Would the value be a true measurement of worth? Or is it you take what you can get?

Unless you are trading a player for a player, the value/return is skewed by time. Who really wins the deal... is it a wash as with the Wiz? Id like to deal Bled, but I dont see just giving him away as a path McD will take, even if we draft a PG. Problem is, once Paul/Bled's hand is forced, and I am sure they will look at it that way if a PG is taken at 4, then you have additional factors fall into play. A player forcing his way out seems to have leverage, but since this team isn't on the cusp of serious contention, there is no rush to deal. Id think there is equal chance Bled is dealt at the mid season deadline as on draft day, or, once the free agency shakes out, there will be teams in need who right now, are in somewhat of a flux. The phone will be ringing regardless of who we take as teams know our situation as well as we do.

[Jdiddy701]

If it wasn't for Bledsoe's injuries, I'd want the Suns to max him and retire as a Sun. He's so committed to the Suns and wants to win. He puts the work in. I do believe he's under valued on this board as well.

But yeah, time to trade.. damn injuries.


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