Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

AtheJ415 · Post #361 » by **AtheJ415** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 1:11 am

It's honestly as if people don't remember that we weren't all that good with Bledsoe, who is better than George Hill to begin with. Conley might be an improvement on Bled, but he makes $30+ million a year. It's crazy.

RaisingArizona · Post #362 » by **RaisingArizona** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 1:16 am

I wanted Kemba in the draft. I really want him now!

NavLDO · Post #363 » by **NavLDO** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 1:20 am

Bjorpa wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:What do you guys think about the possibility of getting KAT? I've read multiple boards where fans aren't very happy with his defensive efforts. What would you guys be willing to trade for him if he was made available? There has been mentions fans would be willing to trade him for fair value, which I'm not sure what that would be.

They already have Wiggins, som have no need for Jackson.

They'd probably want a star om return, leaving us out of the picture.

A round-robin of Wiggins-JJ-Butler would probably work, since all three can guard (in theory...not sure Wiggins can guard anyone) Shooting Guards. But still, if they think they might be willing to part with KAT, I would think a lot of teams would be interested. Somehow, I can't see that as being true...

AtheJ415 · Post #364 » by **AtheJ415** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 1:22 am

I would prefer Malik Monk to Kemba for age reasons, and honestly he is probably more attainable. BWood is right--Kemba is their franchise player. He is likely not on the table at all and if he was he would require a TON to get.

YouTube · Post #365 » by **Kerrsed** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 1:23 am

No to Hill, Yes to drafting Young with the Miami pick. Problem solved. PG that can not only score at a high clip, but also has court vision and can distribute the ball.

If you are a threat at both scoring and distributing, then you can control the game. It helps keep the defense honest.

Young currently leads the entire NCAA in points per game, and is 3rd in assists. He also is tied for 15th when it comes to steals.

Spoiler:

AtheJ415 · Post #366 » by **AtheJ415** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 1:25 am

NavLDO wrote:
Bjorpa wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:What do you guys think about the possibility of getting KAT? I've read multiple boards where fans aren't very happy with his defensive efforts. What would you guys be willing to trade for him if he was made available? There has been mentions fans would be willing to trade him for fair value, which I'm not sure what that would be.

They already have Wiggins, som have no need for Jackson.

They'd probably want a star om return, leaving us out of the picture.

A round-robin of Wiggins-JJ-Butler would probably work, since all three can guard (in theory...not sure Wiggins can guard anyone) Shooting Guards. But still, if they think they might be willing to part with KAT, I would think a lot of teams would be interested. Somehow, I can't see that as being true...

Yeah. I find it a bit weird that many seem to think fan unhappiness with a player means a team's GM would be willing to part with said player. KAT is one of the top 5 least likely to be traded players in basketball. Yes his D sucks but in a keeper-type draft he'd be a top 3 pick.

NavLDO · Post #367 » by **NavLDO** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 1:29 am

bwgood77 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:But it's not just Max players...how about players that will grow with our team, instead of the next stop gap option. Those that have posted on these couple of pages are ok with TRADING for George Hill, but can't think a little further to realize that we could TRADE for a younger player?

Why not...

Kemba Walker? Age 27
Jrue Holiday? Age 27
Ricky Rubio? Age 27

Or, how about we go for a bigger name youngster like Fultz, Fox, Ntilikina, etc. If you're worried about Booker, surely he can understand wanting to build a young team up together full of high-level talent.

But spending $20M on an average player, that will tie our hands in FA...OR trades...for this next off-season isn't wise, IMO. NOBODY is going to want to trade for a $19M per George Hill, well, except some of our fans for some reason...

I get wanting to make our destination attractive, but having an average PG, with no money to spend on other FAs is not going to be 'attractive' to any FAs wanting to come here; what's going to be attractive is a young, exciting roster.

I don't think it's that people would prefer Hill to any of those guys you listed (except maybe Rubio) but Hill is more likely attainable. None of those other guys are. The Pelicans just gave Jrue a huge contract to keep him. Kemba IS the Hornets...he's pretty much their franchise player...their Booker. And those high rookie picks are definitely not on the block.

I think people are thinking a little further when not proposing trades for those guys because they know we couldn't trade for them unless we threw in Booker. I've mentioned Kemba as a good target when he becomes a free agent shortly though.

But Fultz MIGHT be, since Simmons is doing so well, right?

But no matter; Hill still isn't a good choice, IMO. I can't believe GM's Front Offices don't 'speak' to their Franchise Players to let them know that they are working their best to get a PG in that will benefit his career, but it will take time, and is a better option than just grabbing an overpaid 'Hill', that would just set the team back yet another year. To me, that's a better option than trying to placate a player despite the rest of the team.

Post #368 » by **bwgood77** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 1:38 am

NavLDO wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:But it's not just Max players...how about players that will grow with our team, instead of the next stop gap option. Those that have posted on these couple of pages are ok with TRADING for George Hill, but can't think a little further to realize that we could TRADE for a younger player?

Why not...

Kemba Walker? Age 27
Jrue Holiday? Age 27
Ricky Rubio? Age 27

Or, how about we go for a bigger name youngster like Fultz, Fox, Ntilikina, etc. If you're worried about Booker, surely he can understand wanting to build a young team up together full of high-level talent.

But spending $20M on an average player, that will tie our hands in FA...OR trades...for this next off-season isn't wise, IMO. NOBODY is going to want to trade for a $19M per George Hill, well, except some of our fans for some reason...

I get wanting to make our destination attractive, but having an average PG, with no money to spend on other FAs is not going to be 'attractive' to any FAs wanting to come here; what's going to be attractive is a young, exciting roster.

I don't think it's that people would prefer Hill to any of those guys you listed (except maybe Rubio) but Hill is more likely attainable. None of those other guys are. The Pelicans just gave Jrue a huge contract to keep him. Kemba IS the Hornets...he's pretty much their franchise player...their Booker. And those high rookie picks are definitely not on the block.

I think people are thinking a little further when not proposing trades for those guys because they know we couldn't trade for them unless we threw in Booker. I've mentioned Kemba as a good target when he becomes a free agent shortly though.

But Fultz MIGHT be, since Simmons is doing so well, right?

But no matter; Hill still isn't a good choice, IMO. I can't believe GM's Front Offices don't 'speak' to their Franchise Players to let them know that they are working their best to get a PG in that will benefit his career, but it will take time, and is a better option than just grabbing an overpaid 'Hill', that would just set the team back yet another year. To me, that's a better option than trying to placate a player despite the rest of the team.

The main reason I think Philly wanted to get Fultz is because they wanted a scorer at the guard spot since Simmons was going to basically run point. They just gave up a third pick and another likely top 5 pick for Fultz. I'm sure they'd consider taking Booker for him but they really don't need anything at other positions...they need a scoring guard...a shooter and secondary ball handler.

jcsunsfan · Post #369 » by **jcsunsfan** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 2:59 am

I have never been a Rubio fan, but his defense and distribution would be a real help right now. We just then need another scorer, it would have to be at pf.

Funny thing is that this team could really use Brandon Knight right now.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Waylay13 · Post #370 » by **Waylay13** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 3:22 am

jcsunsfan wrote:I have never been a Rubio fan, but his defense and distribution would be a real help right now. We just then need another scorer, it would have to be at pf.

Funny thing is that this team could really use Brandon Knight right now.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

The problem is the Brandon Knight is so much of a self absorbed hero ball player that he really wouldnt help much. I am sick of the idea that a point guard should score over setting up his teammates. Steve Nash would make this team massively better and he wouldnt need to score to do it.

AtheJ415 · Post #371 » by **AtheJ415** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 4:04 am

The Jazz offense is actually better without Rubio than with him. He is the most pined over PG on fan boards of teams that don't have him. Teams that do have him don't like him that much. There's a reason for that. I'd rather get Exum. Rubio's inability to hit the broad side of a barn with a rocket launcher impacts the spacing of the entire floor. He is not somebody we need right now. Also, his style of play is unusual, which means we would have to have our youngsters adjust when we inevitably replace him with somebody else in a few years.

KLEON · Post #372 » by **KLEON** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 4:46 am

1. Make a trade for T.J McConnell whenever Fultz is back from injury

2. Try to sign Avery Bradley and Jabari Parker or Aaron Gordon during the off season

jeff2020 · Post #373 » by **jeff2020** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 1:07 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:I have never been a Rubio fan, but his defense and distribution would be a real help right now. We just then need another scorer, it would have to be at pf.

Funny thing is that this team could really use Brandon Knight right now.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Rubio doesn't really get to showcase his skills in Utah's system. In Phoenix the way we run and play so fast he would get to play in the open court much more the way he likes. Rubio would fit really well with our style of play

NavLDO · Post #374 » by **NavLDO** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 2:42 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I don't think it's that people would prefer Hill to any of those guys you listed (except maybe Rubio) but Hill is more likely attainable. None of those other guys are. The Pelicans just gave Jrue a huge contract to keep him. Kemba IS the Hornets...he's pretty much their franchise player...their Booker. And those high rookie picks are definitely not on the block.

I think people are thinking a little further when not proposing trades for those guys because they know we couldn't trade for them unless we threw in Booker. I've mentioned Kemba as a good target when he becomes a free agent shortly though.

But Fultz MIGHT be, since Simmons is doing so well, right?

But no matter; Hill still isn't a good choice, IMO. I can't believe GM's Front Offices don't 'speak' to their Franchise Players to let them know that they are working their best to get a PG in that will benefit his career, but it will take time, and is a better option than just grabbing an overpaid 'Hill', that would just set the team back yet another year. To me, that's a better option than trying to placate a player despite the rest of the team.

The main reason I think Philly wanted to get Fultz is because they wanted a scorer at the guard spot since Simmons was going to basically run point. They just gave up a third pick and another likely top 5 pick for Fultz. I'm sure they'd consider taking Booker for him but they really don't need anything at other positions...they need a scoring guard...a shooter and secondary ball handler.

Yeah, good point. They just paid Covington $62M, so they're set at SF/PF with him and Saric. But they have Redick at SG, even though he's aging.

If we were to target a younger guy, it would likely have to be one that has been on the league for at least a year, and hasn't lived up to the lofty expectations expected, such as...

D-Russell
Dante Exum
Kris Dunn
E-Mudiay
J-Murray

...or, a guy that maybe wasn't drafted as high, but has shown to be pretty decent, like...

Elfrid Payton
TJ McConnell
Jerian Grant
Spencer Dinwiddie
Matthew Brogdon

http://bkref.com/tiny/x3sfy

But, look at the above...and I've been guilty of this myself, but look at the comparisons between Ulis and some of these others. How big of an improvement are we really looking at by bringing in one of these guys over what we already have in Ulis? Look at the Per36 numbers. Ulis compares favorably in every aspect but FG and 3PT%...but I know Ulis has been looking better as of late, so I went back to look at his last 10 or so games, and I wasn't just seeing things...

Ulis has been shooting 46.5% FG% and 45.5% 3PT%; averaging 10.2 Pts/5 Assts since November 16th. Those numbers are pretty darn good for 26.6 MPG. Ulia MIGHT actually be coming into his own, so maybe we just stick with him as our starter for now, and let him see what he can do, huh? Those aren't terrible numbers, and while they may not be all-star numbers, they are certainly good enough for this year...if he continues on a similar pace, and if he's given an extra 6-8 MPG, of say 12/6, 46% FG% and 40% 3PT%...Oh, and about a Stl per game? I think we'd be ok with that, no?

We can always address the position in the off-season via trade/draft, if needed, but there is always the slim hope/chance that Ulis develops into a 15/7 PG who shoots between 45-48% FG% and 38-40% 3PT% on 3-4 att/gm, and gives us, say, 1.5 Stl/gm, and improves his DRtg to around a 110. I'd be ok with that as our starting PG moving forward...so long as we got a stud Center.

gaspar · Post #375 » by **gaspar** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 2:46 pm

For a fanbase that preaches "patience" all the time, some of you guys have no patience at all.

Ulis had a surgery during the offseason and couldn't prepare for the season as good as he wanted to. After a slow start to the season he's playing very decent basketball lately. In the last 11 games he's averaging 10.4 pts, 5.1 ast, 2.2 reb, 0.7 stl, .457 FG%, .455 3P% in 27 mpg. That's better than George Hill, Rubio or Mudiay this season and better than TJ McConnell has ever done in his career.

Only the best players like Booker can avoid the sophomore slump (and even Devin sucked donkey balls for the first 2 months of his 2nd season in the NBA). Give Bender, Chriss and Ulis some **** time to adjust. Some players need 5 or 20 games to learn what the NBA is about. Others need months or years. Be patient!

NavLDO · Post #376 » by **NavLDO** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 3:54 pm

BobbieL wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:OK. MIlwaukee is interested in Deandre Jordan. They would like to put together a big three of Giannis, Bledsoe, and Jordan, which is pretty potent. But they have to give up something to get it. DJ is an expiring BUT they would have his Bird rights and it is the type of place DJ would like to go.

Phoenix steps in to facilitate. The Clippers need a big man, and if it is an expiring, they would love to have his Bird rights.

Clippers out: Deandre Jordan, Lou Williams
Clippers in: Greg Monroe, Kris Middleton, Malcom Brogdon

Milwaukee out: Jabari Parker, Kriss Middleton, Malcom Brogdon.
Milwaukee in: Deandre Jordan, Troy Daniels

Suns out: Greg Monroe, Troy Daniels
Suns in: Jabari Parker, Lou Williams

Salaries work. Remember that Parker is a FA this summer, and Milwaukee has a tough decision about keeping him. They have typically moved on if its doubtful (Brandon Knight). Lou Williams is also an expiring.

Quite honestly, I think would rather use Monroe/Daniels for George Hill than Jabari Parker. I just am not sure where Parker fits in with the Suns as the Suns have young forwards already. Granted, not turning down talent, I get that.. Sweet Lou is not your ideal PG type player. Hill would be a solid PG for the next 1.5 years, off the books in summer of 2019 with Dudley and Chandler and also would help out not only Booker but the other players like Warren, Chriss and Bender as a facilitator.

I do think this trade is what the Clippers and Bucks would want though. Clippers would get two young players to build around and an expiring contract in Monroe so that works for them. For the Bucks, the same - though Middleton might be a lot to give up but you have to give to get.

Again, I'll ask...why are you so anxious to pay Hill $19M next year? I know you don't think it's that much money or for very long, but I guarantee you, 95% of this forum will want McD's head by the Summer if we bring in Hill, as that completely and totally hamstrings us financially for this FA period...and I mean we can't even bring in a complimentary piece, and may even have issues signing draft picks.

Look at the difference between Hill and Ulis...(and yes, I get stats don't tell the whole story...)

http://bkref.com/tiny/J7VUB

Hill is not $17+M better than Ulis; he just isn't. And by bringing in Hill, we continue to stunt the growth of Ulis, and really don't do much for anyone else. Oh, and if he DOES help us, then we fall farther back in the Lottery; something else we don't want at this juncture. There is just no 'good' that can come out of bringing in Hill.

No, if we are going to go after a PG, we need to be looking at these types...difference makers...

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yakub7dc - we throw in our 1st Rd pick (because once we get Lillard and Booker comes back, we'll be headed to the 8th seed...we keep Miami's 1st, though, to get our Center of the future...

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybexwbmd - 'see above'...insert Kemba's name for 'Lillard'. Thy get their new 'face' of the franchise in JJ or Bender...

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7wfttrs + their 'interest' in the goofy reade they have with Boston for the 1st Rd pick that will either be 2018 or 2019 - I just did WHAT!! I know, it will never happen, so don't worry, but...
Fultz / JJ / Warren / Saric / Holmes (Holmes is PF/C hybrid) - this assumes Monroe being gone. Philly's all about this, as they get Booker - Simmons / Booker / Covington / Booker / Embiid. We get potentially THREE picks in the lottery this year.

...anyway, you get the point...no Hill...

Post #377 » by **bwgood77** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 7:04 pm

I don't think Ulis is our long term answer our point guard. I know we can cherry pick some games to prove he isn't all that bad, and I think he's a fine backup PG, but I hope to find a long term improvement in the draft. I don't see his defense (despite the great effort) being good enough to be a starter on hopefully a solid playoff team.

If our standard is being a better shooter than Rubio and Mudiay than that's pretty low. Hill isn't a long term answer and hasn't played particularly well, but is shooting 43.8% from 3 this year and is a solid vet and defender. Ulis is shooting 28.6% from 3 this year. Sure he's had a stretch of games shooting better. TJ Warren has shot 43% from 3 over his last 4 games, but that doesn't mean I'd consider him a good three point shooter.

I am one of those who is fine standing pat even though I wouldn't mind finding a more solid PG. The problem is I don't see any as attainable that would make much sense,

Overall I think Hill would be the type of guy that might be attainable and might make some sense to have around for a year, given our overall subpar PG situation, though he hasn't had a great year overall, but I can also understand wanting to keep our cap sheet clean too for this summer since he doesn't ultimately move the needle much, and I'm not that concerned with getting a few extra wins. As a matter of fact, when they come because of a vet that is kind of frustrating, as I'd rather any wins come on the backs of our young guys. In theory a vet PG like Hill would make them better, though Skal, Fox and some of the other young guys are not playing well for Sacramento. Hield is though.

I don't imagine us having much of a shot at Boogie or another "big name free agent" either though, but that doesn't mean it's not worth trying. There are not many big name free agents in the next two summers that I think would sign and also make a lot of sense for our team. A lot of them happen to be shooting guards, particularly in 2019.

Hopefully our biggest difference makers are people we draft this summer or guys who are already on the team.

jcsunsfan · Post #378 » by **jcsunsfan** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 7:51 pm

AtheJ415 wrote:It's honestly as if people don't remember that we weren't all that good with Bledsoe, who is better than George Hill to begin with. Conley might be an improvement on Bled, but he makes $30+ million a year. It's crazy.

We would have been much better with Bledsoe with the new coach, Bledsoe playing with some motivation and this team getting a little time.

jcsunsfan · Post #379 » by **jcsunsfan** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 7:56 pm

gaspar wrote:For a fanbase that preaches "patience" all the time, some of you guys have no patience at all.

Ulis had a surgery during the offseason and couldn't prepare for the season as good as he wanted to. After a slow start to the season he's playing very decent basketball lately. In the last 11 games he's averaging 10.4 pts, 5.1 ast, 2.2 reb, 0.7 stl, .457 FG%, .455 3P% in 27 mpg. That's better than George Hill, Rubio or Mudiay this season and better than TJ McConnell has ever done in his career.

Only the best players like Booker can avoid the sophomore slump (and even Devin sucked donkey balls for the first 2 months of his 2nd season in the NBA). Give Bender, Chriss and Ulis some **** time to adjust. Some players need 5 or 20 games to learn what the NBA is about. Others need months or years. Be patient!

This isn't about patience, its about being honest regarding Ulis' obvious limitations that no amount of time will change. He will always be at a disadvantage because of his size. He will be a great back up pg. If he does start, then we need a quality backup pg with good size and major defensive skills.

Every team we play immediately tries to take advantage of Ulis. They run plays to post up their pg right off the bat.

We don't have to run out right now and get a marginal pg, but it is a position we will have to address at some point.

NavLDO · Post #380 » by **NavLDO** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 8:25 pm

pelifan wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:
Revived wrote:Give us Goran back, I miss having competent play from the PG position

I was actually thinking of a three team trade a couple days ago that went something like this...
Suns get-
Boogie Cousins
Goran Dragic

Heat get-
Greg Monroe
Omer Asik
Jared Dudley
both Miami picks back

Pelicans get-
Hassan Whiteside
Dion Waiters
2018 Bucks pick

If the Heat decided to rebuild I thought it made some sense.

Dear lord that's a good return for expiring Cousins. I don't see it for Phx really, and the value isn't great for Miami. I personally think the best deal for Whiteside

Chandler
Dudley
Both Miami picks returned
Bucks pick

for

Whiteside.

Phx holds on to the upcoming capspace and Miami gets to fully tank instead of treadmilling. I think you could even tinker with this for the Heat to take Brandon Knight instead of Dudley. With the contracts they've handed out they are likely capped out for the forseable future anyway. Or you could just pull the Bucks pick.

IDK, might be too much value for MIA, but I feel like I'm pretty close to fair here.

I agree with part 1 of hat you said, but disagree that Mia isn't getting enough. Those picks are pretty worthwhile. Think about if NO did not have their 2018 or 2021 picks. the '18 pick is protected 1-7, and the '21 isn't protected at all. Those are pretty worthwhile picks, especially i the state they are in now. Justise is 'meh' Bam is unproven, Whiteside is aging, Dragic is old, and not that great anyway...those picks might be worth something. They are as close to the 13th seed (2 games) as they are to the 8th seed.

Whiteside is not that special, and has never made it through an entire season, and only one season has he played for more than 50 games, and oh look, he's out for 3 more games...no thanks...

What direction would you like the front office to take?