The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

1976, 1993, 2021, ...

What is the next number in the sequence?

2054. Every 30 yrs we get one deep playoff (finals run). But the brightside of technological advances is that some of us fans might be able to cryogenically freeze ourselves and then get thawed out when the Suns finally get it together and make the finals again!

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Only if.......................................

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Sheppard, Whitmore, two first rounders + filler and we have a deal.

Before somebody says Rockets wouldnt pay that KD with all their young core intact would put them in the ring contention.

The Rockets would still have to include a bigger salary contract and another piece just to get close enough in salary matching for the trade to be legal! Van Vleet with this package (but then in terms of value) all three 1sts would need to be added. If J Green or D Brooks/ Jabari Smith Jr/ Sheppard/ Whitmore/ 2 1sts.

If D Brooks, then D Brooks/ Sheppard/ J Smith Jr/ Whitmore/ 2 1sts.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Spoiler:

AI Overview

The New York Knicks are currently not over the second apron. They are projected to have $8,045,816 in second-apron space, meaning they are below the threshold.
Here's a breakdown:

Salary Cap:
The Knicks are over the salary cap, but under the second apron.

Second Apron Space:
They have $8,045,816 in second-apron space, meaning they are below the second apron threshold.

Impact of Brunson's Contract:
Jalen Brunson's contract decision played a key role in the Knicks staying under the second apron.

Trade Restrictions:
Teams above the second apron face significant trade restrictions.

So actually the Knicks are 8 million under the 2nd apron, and even sending out other players to a 3rd team ( prior to a KD trade) for smaller contracts or cap space and picks could get them more flexibility and assets to throw into a KD trade.

Of course we could just trade for a singular player in KAT which would work offensively, but KAT is just so very bad defensively that our outcome might actually be worse unless we can creatively surround Book and KAT with some high end defenders somehow using packages around Beal, Allen and O'neale.

Personally if getting KAT, I'd look at really aggressively trying to somehow get Isaac from Orlando and Sochan from San Antonio? That'd give us Dunn, Sochan and Isaac.

Then I'd look to trade back with Charlotte in the draft for their 33rd and 34th picks to take Rocco Zisarky ( Gobert 2.0) and Myles Byrd or JoJo Tugler at 34. Myles Byrd is a 6'7 version of Josh Green. And Tugler is a 6'8 version of Montrez Harrell with a ( 7'6 WINGSPAN)!!!

Really just load up on defensive players around Booker, KAT with a big two and depth pieces throughout the roster??

- Would Orlando do a Beal/ CLE 29' 1st for Isaac/ KCP/ Harris ( 7 million expiring) / Bidatze? ( Maybe pull a 2nd out of it) if lucky??

- Would San Antonio do an O'neale/ Richards for Sochan/ Wesley/ 26' 2nds deal? Because they could really use floor spacing, a quality low cost backup center and more vet experience around Wemby and because Sochan/ Wesley can't really shoot at all anyways?

Booker/ KCP/ Sochan/ KAT/ Isaac.
Paul/ Trent Jr/ Dunn/ Nance/ Bidatze
Gillespie/ Byrd/ KCP/ Bol/ Zisarky.

That's pretty crazy. I thought they were. I guess game on then if they do want to make a move.
I have to think if the Suns were going to move KD to them, it'd be for one of Mikal/OG and Robinson. Suns will still want to compete and that would give the team more energy/defense.

Purely emotion - if not making a trade with Houston and for "players" -- I would prefer Mikal over Markkanen, Towns, Zion, etc - just because my favorite player

Realistically - if houston loses to the Warriors like 4-1 and they get desperate - thats the team to call!

If New York and obviously for a player's deal, would you do KD for KAT?? And if you didn't really want KAT, Maybe flip KAT to Brooklyn for C Johnson and Claxton?

OR

KAT to Houston or Detroit for a more lucrative young, athletic players package and some picks too?

Maybe KAT/ Micic/ Martin ( or Allen/O'neale) to New Orleans for Zion/ Murray/ picks?

[Ghost of Kleine]

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This should be very interesting! I wonder if anyone has the balls to ask him if 26 other teams would still trade places, picks, rosters with us!

Does this imply Jones will be back? If they aren't going to re-sign him then why would they keep him around? Him not already being fired makes me think he will. Disgusting. Jones back, a ridiculous crippling Booker extension, sending more assets out AGAIN to dump Beal. Unacceptable. Do the casual fans really care about Booker so much that they're going to keep showing up just because he's on the team? Jesus H who **** cares if there's no possibility of a championship now OR in the future. What is the point? I suppose the average sane person doesn't care about the Suns in the same way a sicko like me does and that probably explains most things. **** it. Just move them to Vegas, change the name, and leave the Suns records behind so there are at least some fond memories to look back on instead of the pointless **** garbage we're going to be subjected to for the next 5+ years

James Jones brought back???

[BobbieL]

1976, 1993, 2021, ...

What is the next number in the sequence?

2054. Every 30 yrs we get one deep playoff (finals run). But the brightside of technological advances is that some of us fans might be able to cryogenically freeze ourselves and then get thawed out when the Suns finally get it together and make the finals again!

Your guess might be better than mine

Truly what happens the next 75-90 days could very well set the next 15 years of the franchise.

[Ghost of Kleine]

No doubt that KD has the bigger value around the league, Zion played just 30 games and his inability to play games it has happened too many times already in his career.

That’s why we would need to get more than just Zion if we are indirectly trading them.

The ideal trade with Zion would be Zion + good young player + draft capital for KD.

Just imagine that we get Zion + Tari Eason + 2 unprotected FRPs.

Id be fine with it even without Eason. I agree with GoK and think they won't trade him. Jabari Smith is the likely man out along with Brooks or maybe Jalen Green. Either of those guys will probably need to go to the Pels though as we cannot take that salary plus Zion's

FVV is the easiest and most logical move for the Rockets to match KD's (or Zion) salary.

Dillon Brooks is on a good deal and he is younger and more valuable than FVV.

Regarding Eason... I like him and I think he can be like Josh Hart. Perfect glue guy, two-way player. But I wouldn't be mad if we have to get Jabari Smith or Reed Sheppard in his place because they look good young players too

Cam Whitmore...I like him but I think his value isn't as high as those three.

If trading for a Van Vleet ( $44 million expiring contract) and not being able to get Zion for that (I think they'd prioritize young talent/ picks/ expirings),

would you pivot to trading Van Vleets' expiring/ Martin/ 1st from the KD trade (a Van Vleet value package has to include all three 1sts back)!!

Maybe to Utah for Markannen? And keep him to be Booker's frontcourt compliment along with the other players from the Houston trade?

Or maybe trade him to Brooklyn for C Johnson/ filler/ a 1st back and cap space? or maybe to San Antonio for Vassell/ Barnes/ Sochan/ ATL 25' 1st or ATL 27' 1st back?

Or maybe Markannen/ O'neale to Sacramento for Sabonis/ filler/ 2nds?
** Allen/ Richards saved for Orlando Bidatze/ filler/ 2nds trade.
Or
Allen to Charlotte for Grant Williams/ Okogie/ 33rd and 34th picks.

** The 33rd and 34th picks could be critically important value because they could return a great rim protecting center in Rocco Zisarky (Gobert 2.0) or Ryan Kalkbrenner (Poor man's Broom Lopez). And then a high quality 3 and D wing like Isiah Evans (A better offensive, raw budget Mikal Bridges) or Myles Byrd (A bigger 6'7 Josh Green).

[BobbieL]

Id be fine with it even without Eason. I agree with GoK and think they won't trade him. Jabari Smith is the likely man out along with Brooks or maybe Jalen Green. Either of those guys will probably need to go to the Pels though as we cannot take that salary plus Zion's

FVV is the easiest and most logical move for the Rockets to match KD's (or Zion) salary.

Dillon Brooks is on a good deal and he is younger and more valuable than FVV.

Regarding Eason... I like him and I think he can be like Josh Hart. Perfect glue guy, two-way player. But I wouldn't be mad if we have to get Jabari Smith or Reed Sheppard in his place because they look good young players too

Cam Whitmore...I like him but I think his value isn't as high as those three.

If trading for a Van Vleet ( 44 million expiring contract) and not being able to get Zion for that ( I think they'd prioritize young talent/ picks/ expirings),

would you pivot to trading Van Vleets' expiring/ Martin/ 1st from the KD trade ( a Van Vleet value package has to include all three 1sts back)!!

Maybe to Utah for Markannen? And keep him to be Booker's frontcourt compliment along with the other players from the Houston trade?

Or maybe trade him to Brooklyn for C Johnson/ filler/ a 1st back and cap space? or maybe to San Antonio for Vassell/ Barnes/ Sochan/ ATL 25' 1st or ATL 27' 1st back?

Or maybe Markannen/ O'neale to Sacramento for Sabonis/ filler/ 2nds?
** Allen/ Richards saved for Orlando Bidatze/ filler/ 2nds trade.
Or
Allen to Charlotte for Grant Williams/ Okogie/ 33rd and 34th picks.
** The 33rd and 34th picks could be critically important value because they could return a great rim protecting center in Rocco Zisarky (Gobert 2.0) or Ryan Kalkbrenner ( Poor man's Broom Lopez). And then a high quality 3 and D wing like Isiah Evans ( better offensive budget Mikal Bridges) or Myles Byrd ( bigger 6'7 Josh Green).

GOK - these trades about - and appreciate the efforst - is EXACTLY why I am keeping Beal to let him be an expiring next summer of 2026 combined with trading Durant and Booker.

Yes, making some of these moves makes the team better. But none of these moves are "winning an NBA Title better let alone the WCF better"

End of these day, these are "activity moves" and not accomplishments. Yes, the team will be better. But they won't make it out of the play-in games

But personally, if trading for established players - -if they can somehow get Mikal back - I would at least like watching the team again. Markannen, Zion, Towns (barf on Towns!) - not as much

[King4Day]

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This should be very interesting! I wonder if anyone has the balls to ask him if 26 other teams would still trade places, picks, rosters with us!

Does this imply Jones will be back? If they aren't going to re-sign him then why would they keep him around? Him not already being fired makes me think he will. Disgusting. Jones back, a ridiculous crippling Booker extension, sending more assets out AGAIN to dump Beal. Unacceptable. Do the casual fans really care about Booker so much that they're going to keep showing up just because he's on the team? Jesus H who **** cares if there's no possibility of a championship now OR in the future. What is the point? I suppose the average sane person doesn't care about the Suns in the same way a sicko like me does and that probably explains most things. **** it. Just move them to Vegas, change the name, and leave the Suns records behind so there are at least some fond memories to look back on instead of the pointless **** garbage we're going to be subjected to for the next 5+ years

If the Suns moved, I'd immediately become a Hornets fan
Could be fun to have a local team as a favorite for a change.

[King4Day]

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This should be very interesting! I wonder if anyone has the balls to ask him if 26 other teams would still trade places, picks, rosters with us!

Does this imply Jones will be back? If they aren't going to re-sign him then why would they keep him around? Him not already being fired makes me think he will. Disgusting. Jones back, a ridiculous crippling Booker extension, sending more assets out AGAIN to dump Beal. Unacceptable. Do the casual fans really care about Booker so much that they're going to keep showing up just because he's on the team? Jesus H who **** cares if there's no possibility of a championship now OR in the future. What is the point? I suppose the average sane person doesn't care about the Suns in the same way a sicko like me does and that probably explains most things. **** it. Just move them to Vegas, change the name, and leave the Suns records behind so there are at least some fond memories to look back on instead of the pointless **** garbage we're going to be subjected to for the next 5+ years

James Jones brought back???

It could also be Ishbia saying that Barlestein will focus on Mercury and Jones will have another position, allowing the team to start fresh in the front office. That's the hope at least.
People can say 'Ish is pulling the strings and it's not Jones' fault'. If he's kept, it means everything is status quo and we can expect a horrible summer. If things are changed, then we know it's a top down re-do.

[Revived]

This should be very interesting! I wonder if anyone has the balls to ask him if 26 other teams would still trade places, picks, rosters with us!

That should be the first question asked but I doubt the soft ass Suns media will do it. I’m including Gerald in that by the way.

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Kevin Durant’s sensitivity on social media is rubbing off on the Suns reporters too.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[BobbieL]

This should be very interesting! I wonder if anyone has the balls to ask him if 26 other teams would still trade places, picks, rosters with us!

That should be the first question asked but I doubt the soft ass Suns media will do it. I’m including Gerald in that by the way.

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Kevin Durant’s sensitivity on social media is rubbing off on the Suns reporters too.

I have a lot of questions but the main one is this
IF the goal is to win an NBA title, why is Devin Booker off the table in a trade?
As possibly, with the players from Durant and Booker, you can build a better team

[Jesus_H_Macy]

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This should be very interesting! I wonder if anyone has the balls to ask him if 26 other teams would still trade places, picks, rosters with us!

Does this imply Jones will be back? If they aren't going to re-sign him then why would they keep him around? Him not already being fired makes me think he will. Disgusting. Jones back, a ridiculous crippling Booker extension, sending more assets out AGAIN to dump Beal. Unacceptable. Do the casual fans really care about Booker so much that they're going to keep showing up just because he's on the team? Jesus H who **** cares if there's no possibility of a championship now OR in the future. What is the point? I suppose the average sane person doesn't care about the Suns in the same way a sicko like me does and that probably explains most things. **** it. Just move them to Vegas, change the name, and leave the Suns records behind so there are at least some fond memories to look back on instead of the pointless **** garbage we're going to be subjected to for the next 5+ years

I truly wonder if there are fans that would rather have Booker than compete for a title
And I get it, there is ZERO guarantee trading Booker will lead to a title
I just think it has higher odds than keeping Booker, figuring out Beal and building a roster of minimum salary players or a guy on the MLE
Ishbia extending Booker - with three years left on his deal --without knowing what the roster will be ? How Booker will lead it is just stupid

in fact, extending Booker might be worse than his trades of Durant, for Beal and the Ayton deal

Despite there being many things to dislike about Booker I really do like him and wish he was good enough to be that guy. Him getting us a chip and being a Sun for life would have been awesome. But we all know that he isn't as much as we may want to delude ourselves. The 2021-2022 season had me believing because he was great that year, but it's looking like that'll be the pinnacle of his career at this point. He is still inexplicably a **** 3pt shooter, which I have never been able to figure out. The only improvement since then I think one could argue for is playmaking, but BOOKER IS NOT A **** POINT GUARD. It's such a disservice to him to have him playing the point. But it's been happening for so long now I think both he and the team have convinced themselves that he is. For Booker to be at his best, which is unfortunately still not good enough, he needs to be a hyper aggressive scorer. Booker at the point is just a complete waste. So the one thing he's gotten better at is ultimately going to end up rendering him a less effective player.

Booker is not better than Jokic, Luka, Shai, Giannis, or Wembanyama, anyone saying otherwise is insane. He's probably not better than Tatum or Edwards. He may not even be better than Brunson, Maxey, or Banchero. He's definitely not better than Davis, Kawhi, or Embiid, but those guys are too unhealthy to matter. Durant, Bron, and Curry are miles better but they are also too old to matter. So even with the discounts he just isn't good enough to be the best player on a championship team. With hardly any exceptions you need to have a true MVP-level player, a top 5 guy, to win the championship. There is a 0% chance Book is ever going to be better than those top 5. It's over, we need to move on while he has maximum value. I honestly wish him the best but it's time.

[Revived]

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So in addition to all his other unlikable qualities, you can say that Matt Ishbia is a fcking liar too. Numerous NBA sources including Shams, Woj etc all have reported that Ishbia is the one running the show and he explicitly overruled James Jones on the trade for KD. These NBA sources get their info directly from teams or agents involved in contract or trade negotiations with the Suns so they know who the decision maker is for other teams front office decisions. Well reputed guys like Shams and Woj aren’t gonna make up lies to slander a guy like Ishbia…he’s too small a fish in the overall scope of their work. But I’m sure some dumb*** fans will try to say that.

Now suddenly he doesn’t want to be accountable for those decisions anymore after seeing how awful it worked out.

What a fcking p**ssy.

[BobbieL]

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So in addition to all his other unlikable qualities, you can say that Matt Ishbia is a fcking liar too. Numerous NBA sources including Shams, Woj etc all have reported that Ishbia is the one running the show and he explicitly overruled James Jones on the trade for KD.

Now suddenly he doesn’t want to be accountable for those decisions anymore after seeing how awful it worked out.

What a fcking p**ssy.

If the GM of the team were truly making decisions - why haven't they been fired
Coaches have been fired - but not the GM

The "GM" ran this team into the ground.

[Ghost of Kleine]

FVV is the easiest and most logical move for the Rockets to match KD's (or Zion) salary.

Dillon Brooks is on a good deal and he is younger and more valuable than FVV.

Regarding Eason... I like him and I think he can be like Josh Hart. Perfect glue guy, two-way player. But I wouldn't be mad if we have to get Jabari Smith or Reed Sheppard in his place because they look good young players too

Cam Whitmore...I like him but I think his value isn't as high as those three.

If trading for a Van Vleet ( 44 million expiring contract) and not being able to get Zion for that ( I think they'd prioritize young talent/ picks/ expirings),

would you pivot to trading Van Vleets' expiring/ Martin/ 1st from the KD trade ( a Van Vleet value package has to include all three 1sts back)!!

Maybe to Utah for Markannen? And keep him to be Booker's frontcourt compliment along with the other players from the Houston trade?

Or maybe trade him to Brooklyn for C Johnson/ filler/ a 1st back and cap space? or maybe to San Antonio for Vassell/ Barnes/ Sochan/ ATL 25' 1st or ATL 27' 1st back?

Or maybe Markannen/ O'neale to Sacramento for Sabonis/ filler/ 2nds?
** Allen/ Richards saved for Orlando Bidatze/ filler/ 2nds trade.
Or
Allen to Charlotte for Grant Williams/ Okogie/ 33rd and 34th picks.
** The 33rd and 34th picks could be critically important value because they could return a great rim protecting center in Rocco Zisarky (Gobert 2.0) or Ryan Kalkbrenner ( Poor man's Broom Lopez). And then a high quality 3 and D wing like Isiah Evans ( better offensive budget Mikal Bridges) or Myles Byrd ( bigger 6'7 Josh Green).

GOK - these trades about - and appreciate the efforst - is EXACTLY why I am keeping Beal to let him be an expiring next summer of 2026 combined with trading Durant and Booker.

Yes, making some of these moves makes the team better. But none of these moves are "winning an NBA Title better let alone the WCF better"

End of these day, these are "activity moves" and not accomplishments. Yes, the team will be better. But they won't make it out of the play-in games

But personally, if trading for established players - -if they can somehow get Mikal back - I would at least like watching the team again. Markannen, Zion, Towns (barf on Towns!) - not as much

I agree man! And again, the purpose of the Towns trade premise would be around trading him elsewhere for a better value return than what we might get for KD because he'd still have multiple years on his contract, isn't 37 yrs old and is considered a star player too.

I'm going to list ( shortly) the teams we could trade him to if acquired via New York trade. Not because I really want him, but because I believe that we could utilize him as a premium asset to trade elsewhere for young players and picks in contrast to KD who's value might be more appreciative due to his contract length and age, injury concerns, etc.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[BobbieL]

Does this imply Jones will be back? If they aren't going to re-sign him then why would they keep him around? Him not already being fired makes me think he will. Disgusting. Jones back, a ridiculous crippling Booker extension, sending more assets out AGAIN to dump Beal. Unacceptable. Do the casual fans really care about Booker so much that they're going to keep showing up just because he's on the team? Jesus H who **** cares if there's no possibility of a championship now OR in the future. What is the point? I suppose the average sane person doesn't care about the Suns in the same way a sicko like me does and that probably explains most things. **** it. Just move them to Vegas, change the name, and leave the Suns records behind so there are at least some fond memories to look back on instead of the pointless **** garbage we're going to be subjected to for the next 5+ years

I truly wonder if there are fans that would rather have Booker than compete for a title
And I get it, there is ZERO guarantee trading Booker will lead to a title
I just think it has higher odds than keeping Booker, figuring out Beal and building a roster of minimum salary players or a guy on the MLE
Ishbia extending Booker - with three years left on his deal --without knowing what the roster will be ? How Booker will lead it is just stupid

in fact, extending Booker might be worse than his trades of Durant, for Beal and the Ayton deal

Despite there being many things to dislike about Booker I really do like him and wish he was good enough to be that guy. Him getting us a chip and being a Sun for life would have been awesome. But we all know that he isn't as much as we may want to delude ourselves. The 2021-2022 season had me believing because he was great that year, but it's looking like that'll be the pinnacle of his career at this point. He is still inexplicably a **** 3pt shooter, which I have never been able to figure out. The only improvement since then I think one could argue for is playmaking, but BOOKER IS NOT A **** POINT GUARD. It's such a disservice to him to have him playing the point. But it's been happening for so long now I think both he and the team have convinced themselves that he is. For Booker to be at his best, which is unfortunately still not good enough, he needs to be a hyper aggressive scorer. Booker at the point is just a complete waste. So the one thing he's gotten better at is ultimately going to end up rendering him a less effective player.

Booker is not better than Jokic, Luka, Shai, Giannis, or Wembanyama, anyone saying otherwise is insane. He's probably not better than Tatum or Edwards. He may not even be better than Brunson, Maxey, or Banchero. He's definitely not better than Davis, Kawhi, or Embiid, but those guys are too unhealthy to matter. Durant, Bron, and Curry are miles better but they are also too old to matter. So even with the discounts he just isn't good enough to be the best player on a championship team. With hardly any exceptions you need to have a true MVP-level player, a top 5 guy, to win the championship. There is a 0% chance Book is ever going to be better than those top 5. It's over, we need to move on while he has maximum value. I honestly wish him the best but it's time.

Bookers a good player. REALLY good player. But I think the championship team proved his best role. He needed the right team around him PLUS the leader in CP3
Nothing wrong with that -- that doesn't mean that the possibility of being traded shouldn't be discussed.

You are correc t- why isn't he a better 3 point shooter