2021 Playoff and Offseason Speculation - the playoffs. PLAYOFFS????

[Slim Charless]

Maybe we could trade rubio back

Hmmm

Oubre is a FA too this summer if I'm correct....

[Slim Charless]

Do you think they are a better team then we were in terms of ceiling and potential? I would say no! I also think we would finish 4th in the east this year with rubio and oubre instead of paul.

I don't know. We finished 34-39 last year even with a number of gimme games in the bubble...prior to that we were 26-39. The Knicks were at a 47 or 48 win pace in a regular season this year...finishing 41-31.

As for ceiling, I think ours is probably higher but it probably depends on how good you think guys like Barrett, Robinson and Quickley can be.

It seems like we have a better roster minus Paul. I imagine we'd probably be around where the Celtics are this year, or a little better. But I was strictly saying if he looked at it that way...joining a 4th seed as opposed to one that just finished 10th.

I think he will almost certainly stay though. I'm hoping he picks up his option with some kind of understanding he will get a couple more years if we can't just extend him to an extra $45 over 2 years following next year.

Hard to compare east to west teams. West is ridiculous. Outside of a few teams, the East has been a joke for the past decade (or more like 2 decades probably). If last year's Suns were in the Eastern conference, they'd probably have a far better record than having to play a majority of your games against WC teams.

I think even the Rubio Suns would be top 3 in the East. We're a better team than NYK. With or without CP3.

He chose us, not the other way around. He wanted to be here, I don't think he's going anywhere. Why would he? He's gonna win his 1st championship with us

[bwgood77]

I don't know. We finished 34-39 last year even with a number of gimme games in the bubble...prior to that we were 26-39. The Knicks were at a 47 or 48 win pace in a regular season this year...finishing 41-31.

As for ceiling, I think ours is probably higher but it probably depends on how good you think guys like Barrett, Robinson and Quickley can be.

It seems like we have a better roster minus Paul. I imagine we'd probably be around where the Celtics are this year, or a little better. But I was strictly saying if he looked at it that way...joining a 4th seed as opposed to one that just finished 10th.

I think he will almost certainly stay though. I'm hoping he picks up his option with some kind of understanding he will get a couple more years if we can't just extend him to an extra $45 over 2 years following next year.

Hard to compare east to west teams. West is ridiculous. Outside of a few teams, the East has been a joke for the past decade (or more like 2 decades probably). If last year's Suns were in the Eastern conference, they'd probably have a far better record than having to play a majority of your games against WC teams.

I think even the Rubio Suns would be top 3 in the East. We're a better team than NYK. With or without CP3.

He chose us, not the other way around. He wanted to be here, I don't think he's going anywhere. Why would he? He's gonna win his 1st championship with us

It seems like we would be, but I don't know. CP3 probably brought Jae Crowder and maybe could do something similar in NY. But they are having a far better season than us. Yes, being in the east gives you an easier schedule though...not sure if that is enough to completely change who was better at the time.

However, I do believe we have a better young core with more upside, and now, DO have Jae. I definitely don't think we'd be 3rd with Rubio though..not ahead of the Bucks. But with CP3 we'd likely be first....which would give us a very easy road to at least the ECF...first round of Boston or Indiana, 2nd round of NY or Atlanta (though of course they killed us last time we met), and final round of the Nets, Sixers or Bucks....could probably beat the Bucks and likely the Sixers...Nets would be tough though...but such an easier road, especially avoiding Bucks/Sixers in 2nd round.

[bwgood77]

Maybe we could trade rubio back

Hmmm

Oubre is a FA too this summer if I'm correct....

Oubre probably wouldn't take the MLE. I would rather keep just Craig though honestly..probably an unpopular opinion though. But when you add Payne AND Craig to the equation....

But I guess this is with the possibility of CP3 being gone. I'd probably target Lowry first if we still were ok with someone that age. If not probably Rubio. Then I might give Rozier a little more consideration after that (and maybe moreso 2-3 years down the road). He's a bit better than I expected...shoots well...57.5% TS% which is decent...a little above avg, and considering avg includes C's probably well above avg for PGs.

Then a decent distributor..not a ton of assists but a decent ast/to ratio..at over 2/1.

Also could play on or off ball.

Hard to compare Payne to people though...better numbers if extrapolated to starter minutes than many, but also he primarily plays against bench units which probably helps......but would someone like Rozier be better on a better team...how well would he feed Ayton.

His defense isn't very good though and he is small.

[Slim Charless]

Hard to compare east to west teams. West is ridiculous. Outside of a few teams, the East has been a joke for the past decade (or more like 2 decades probably). If last year's Suns were in the Eastern conference, they'd probably have a far better record than having to play a majority of your games against WC teams.

I think even the Rubio Suns would be top 3 in the East. We're a better team than NYK. With or without CP3.

He chose us, not the other way around. He wanted to be here, I don't think he's going anywhere. Why would he? He's gonna win his 1st championship with us

It seems like we would be, but I don't know. CP3 probably brought Jae Crowder and maybe could do something similar in NY. But they are having a far better season than us. Yes, being in the east gives you an easier schedule though...not sure if that is enough to completely change who was better at the time.

However, I do believe we have a better young core with more upside, and now, DO have Jae. I definitely don't think we'd be 3rd with Rubio though..not ahead of the Bucks. But with CP3 we'd likely be first....which would give us a very easy road to at least the ECF...first round of Boston or Indiana, 2nd round of NY or Atlanta (though of course they killed us last time we met), and final round of the Nets, Sixers or Bucks....could probably beat the Bucks and likely the Sixers...Nets would be tough though...but such an easier road, especially avoiding Bucks/Sixers in 2nd round.

I'm not convinced about Milwaukee for some reason. I know they got Jrue-and he's been great, but still I don't like their crunch time lineup. I guess I'm just not convinced that there's enough outside shooting available and/or Giannis can score buckets when it REALLY counts.

We'll see. Back to us. At worst Paul will use the knicks as leverage against us to bump up his contract but I'd be shocked if he isn't a Sun come opening day. Hoping that we'll make a good playoff run and he'll take a slight discount to help pay for other things but either way Sarver and JJ need to make it happen.

[Slim Charless]

Maybe we could trade rubio back

Hmmm

Oubre is a FA too this summer if I'm correct....

Oubre probably wouldn't take the MLE. I would rather keep just Craig though honestly..probably an unpopular opinion though. But when you add Payne AND Craig to the equation....

But I guess this is with the possibility of CP3 being gone. I'd probably target Lowry first if we still were ok with someone that age. If not probably Rubio. Then I might give Rozier a little more consideration after that (and maybe moreso 2-3 years down the road). He's a bit better than I expected...shoots well...57.5% TS% which is decent...a little above avg, and considering avg includes C's probably well above avg for PGs.

Then a decent distributor..not a ton of assists but a decent ast/to ratio..at over 2/1.

Also could play on or off ball.

Hard to compare Payne to people though...better numbers if extrapolated to starter minutes than many, but also he primarily plays against bench units which probably helps......but would someone like Rozier be better on a better team...how well would he feed Ayton.

His defense isn't very good though and he is small.

I was joking. Should've used the green font. I said that in response because it'd be funny (but not really) if we trade Rubio and KO for CP3, only for him to leave and us require both players the very next year. Thankfully I don't see that happening.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Good for Monty. Seems like a genuinely good human.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

After reading his story a couple of years back, he's been through it all and for him to win this award, it's a show of his resilience, dedication and he's a deserving winner. 100000% he's a good human being

Monty's story about his wife's passing and being there for Ryan Anderson after his gf's suicide. The guy has been through it all
https://www.si.com/nba/2017/04/06/monty-williams-wife-ingrid-family-tragedy-spurs-thunder-pelicans

That is a really good article. Suns are lucky to have Monty, such an easy guy to root for.



Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[bwgood77]

I think even the Rubio Suns would be top 3 in the East. We're a better team than NYK. With or without CP3.

He chose us, not the other way around. He wanted to be here, I don't think he's going anywhere. Why would he? He's gonna win his 1st championship with us

It seems like we would be, but I don't know. CP3 probably brought Jae Crowder and maybe could do something similar in NY. But they are having a far better season than us. Yes, being in the east gives you an easier schedule though...not sure if that is enough to completely change who was better at the time.

However, I do believe we have a better young core with more upside, and now, DO have Jae. I definitely don't think we'd be 3rd with Rubio though..not ahead of the Bucks. But with CP3 we'd likely be first....which would give us a very easy road to at least the ECF...first round of Boston or Indiana, 2nd round of NY or Atlanta (though of course they killed us last time we met), and final round of the Nets, Sixers or Bucks....could probably beat the Bucks and likely the Sixers...Nets would be tough though...but such an easier road, especially avoiding Bucks/Sixers in 2nd round.

I'm not convinced about Milwaukee for some reason. I know they got Jrue-and he's been great, but still I don't like their crunch time lineup. I guess I'm just not convinced that there's enough outside shooting available and/or Giannis can score buckets when it REALLY counts.

We'll see. Back to us. At worst Paul will use the knicks as leverage against us to bump up his contract but I'd be shocked if he isn't a Sun come opening day. Hoping that we'll make a good playoff run and he'll take a slight discount to help pay for other things but either way Sarver and JJ need to make it happen.

Best case assuming we want to give him like 3/$90 for the next 3 years though is that he still picks up his option and we make up the other $45 million the next two years. But not sure if we can give him that sort of extension.

[King4Day]

6. They are going to give Allen $100 million or more in a contract extension. Having both wasn’t going to work. Trading for Allen (another bargain price) was a good idea long term, but made life rough for J.B. Bickerstaff due to how Drummond reacted.

Hey, Terry: The Cavs need to trade Collin Sexton and build around Isaac Okoro and Darius Garland. Do you think the front office thinks that way? – Scott Iantosca

Hey, Scott: An NBA executive suggested the Cavs could consider that because it’s a salary cap crusher to pay Allen and Sexton both long-term contracts over $100 million. This guy likes Sexton as a player, but not on a maximum contract.

https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2021/05/whats-next-for-cavaliers-koby-altman-collin-sexton-dan-gilbert-hey-terry.html

Not sure if discussed but if Allen is getting 100mil, Ayton will want far more than that.
If so, just wait a year for his RFA so we can maximize our cap space (and confirm the dude will actually be worth it).

Unless DA is willing to take a 5 year deal at or under 120, I say hold off.

[starbosa10]

6. They are going to give Allen $100 million or more in a contract extension. Having both wasn’t going to work. Trading for Allen (another bargain price) was a good idea long term, but made life rough for J.B. Bickerstaff due to how Drummond reacted.

Hey, Terry: The Cavs need to trade Collin Sexton and build around Isaac Okoro and Darius Garland. Do you think the front office thinks that way? – Scott Iantosca

Hey, Scott: An NBA executive suggested the Cavs could consider that because it’s a salary cap crusher to pay Allen and Sexton both long-term contracts over $100 million. This guy likes Sexton as a player, but not on a maximum contract.

https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2021/05/whats-next-for-cavaliers-koby-altman-collin-sexton-dan-gilbert-hey-terry.html

Not sure if discussed but if Allen is getting 100mil, Ayton will want far more than that.
If so, just wait a year for his RFA so we can maximize our cap space (and confirm the dude will actually be worth it).

Unless DA is willing to take a 5 year deal at or under 120, I say hold off.

Completely agree

[bwgood77]

6. They are going to give Allen $100 million or more in a contract extension. Having both wasn’t going to work. Trading for Allen (another bargain price) was a good idea long term, but made life rough for J.B. Bickerstaff due to how Drummond reacted.

Hey, Terry: The Cavs need to trade Collin Sexton and build around Isaac Okoro and Darius Garland. Do you think the front office thinks that way? – Scott Iantosca

Hey, Scott: An NBA executive suggested the Cavs could consider that because it’s a salary cap crusher to pay Allen and Sexton both long-term contracts over $100 million. This guy likes Sexton as a player, but not on a maximum contract.

https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2021/05/whats-next-for-cavaliers-koby-altman-collin-sexton-dan-gilbert-hey-terry.html

Not sure if discussed but if Allen is getting 100mil, Ayton will want far more than that.
If so, just wait a year for his RFA so we can maximize our cap space (and confirm the dude will actually be worth it).

Unless DA is willing to take a 5 year deal at or under 120, I say hold off.

I won't be shocked if he gets a hefty extension this offseason as they love his character, work ethic and fit with the team. There are few Cs with his versatility of being able to switch (though there are some issues sometimes with a few guards that would destroy any big) and there is still work to be done, but he has been far better on defense than a couple years ago and will continue to get better. He is not a guy that complains about touches, though he should get more, and does call for the ball when he is open and often doesn't get it.

But the main thing is I think the coach and GM likely view him a lot better than many do on this board, and with the overall team success it would be ludicrous to change it when it's hard to find a C. No young C at his age has been nearly good, except maybe Bam, but it's rare. Most that were as good at his age became a lot better within the next few years.

Sarver also said he's willing to pay them and commit to long term money to them and others will figure out the numbers to make it work.

They also couldn't trade for another high dollar C that have been mentioned...and a guy like Capela at like $20 million (who I'm sure the Hawks would not want to trade with as raw as Okongwu is, and Collins who wants a max or near max, would not be worth it either and is not really a C.

We could maybe trade him for Jonas V or something but I don't think that makes sense, even though some could argue he's better I'm sure....when thinking of rebounding and scoring inside (though he gets more shots I believe) and has worked on his game a long time. Raptors fans hated him after 4-5 or more years due to his terrible defense and wanted him gone, after more years than Ayton had.

Waiting to pay him also means you may have to pay him more...very likely so actually because he likely improves more, and he likely gets a big offer sheet from someone.

I bet Dallas would trade KP for in a heartbeat, but I wouldn't want to do that either.

[bwgood77]

6. They are going to give Allen $100 million or more in a contract extension. Having both wasn’t going to work. Trading for Allen (another bargain price) was a good idea long term, but made life rough for J.B. Bickerstaff due to how Drummond reacted.

Hey, Terry: The Cavs need to trade Collin Sexton and build around Isaac Okoro and Darius Garland. Do you think the front office thinks that way? – Scott Iantosca

Hey, Scott: An NBA executive suggested the Cavs could consider that because it’s a salary cap crusher to pay Allen and Sexton both long-term contracts over $100 million. This guy likes Sexton as a player, but not on a maximum contract.

https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2021/05/whats-next-for-cavaliers-koby-altman-collin-sexton-dan-gilbert-hey-terry.html

Not sure if discussed but if Allen is getting 100mil, Ayton will want far more than that.
If so, just wait a year for his RFA so we can maximize our cap space (and confirm the dude will actually be worth it).

Unless DA is willing to take a 5 year deal at or under 120, I say hold off.

Completely agree

Also a 5 year deal at $120 is $24 million a year. Even going a little higher isn't going to be much difference, and if it's an escalating salary, the bigger amounts would hit after Paul is gone. The first two years would be less than avg, so he would hit the average after Paul was gone (assuming Paul plays 3 more years)...and then the last 2 would be higher than $24 million when we likely have a cheaper PG.

I don't necessarily think he will get more than that though. They may try and give him and Bridges the exact same contract, and while Bridges is better overall now, he is also 2 years older with 4 years college experience under a better coach with a team winning a championship (and having 5 NBA players now), Ayton is very necessary given our lack of size, and all of our 3 pt shooters to spread the floor (though he may be more effective if Paul and Booker shot fewer midrange shots bringing defenders in). However, I don't necessarily want Book and CP3 to shoot fewer midrange shots given their efficiency, just that eventually, more floor spreading later would help...or him developing a 3 to open the paint more for others to get to the rim.

[AtheJ415]

6. They are going to give Allen $100 million or more in a contract extension. Having both wasn’t going to work. Trading for Allen (another bargain price) was a good idea long term, but made life rough for J.B. Bickerstaff due to how Drummond reacted.

Hey, Terry: The Cavs need to trade Collin Sexton and build around Isaac Okoro and Darius Garland. Do you think the front office thinks that way? – Scott Iantosca

Hey, Scott: An NBA executive suggested the Cavs could consider that because it’s a salary cap crusher to pay Allen and Sexton both long-term contracts over $100 million. This guy likes Sexton as a player, but not on a maximum contract.

https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2021/05/whats-next-for-cavaliers-koby-altman-collin-sexton-dan-gilbert-hey-terry.html

Not sure if discussed but if Allen is getting 100mil, Ayton will want far more than that.
If so, just wait a year for his RFA so we can maximize our cap space (and confirm the dude will actually be worth it).

Unless DA is willing to take a 5 year deal at or under 120, I say hold off.

I won't be shocked if he gets a hefty extension this offseason as they love his character, work ethic and fit with the team. There are few Cs with his versatility of being able to switch (though there are some issues sometimes with a few guards that would destroy any big) and there is still work to be done, but he has been far better on defense than a couple years ago and will continue to get better. He is not a guy that complains about touches, though he should get more, and does call for the ball when he is open and often doesn't get it.

But the main thing is I think the coach and GM likely view him a lot better than many do on this board, and with the overall team success it would be ludicrous to change it when it's hard to find a C. No young C at his age has been nearly good, except maybe Bam, but it's rare. Most that were as good at his age became a lot better within the next few years.

Sarver also said he's willing to pay them and commit to long term money to them and others will figure out the numbers to make it work.

They also couldn't trade for another high dollar C that have been mentioned...and a guy like Capela at like $20 million (who I'm sure the Hawks would not want to trade with as raw as Okongwu is, and Collins who wants a max or near max, would not be worth it either and is not really a C.

We could maybe trade him for Jonas V or something but I don't think that makes sense, even though some could argue he's better I'm sure....when thinking of rebounding and scoring inside (though he gets more shots I believe) and has worked on his game a long time. Raptors fans hated him after 4-5 or more years due to his terrible defense and wanted him gone, after more years than Ayton had.

Waiting to pay him also means you may have to pay him more...very likely so actually because he likely improves more, and he likely gets a big offer sheet from someone.

I bet Dallas would trade KP for in a heartbeat, but I wouldn't want to do that either.

Yeah. Our board underrates Ayton a ton and I'm guessing it's a combo of not watching other teams much and thus thinking other bigs are super consistent or just wishing we had taken Luka. You could have a philosophical debate on the value of big men, but Ayton is as good as it gets at his age and if we're going to pay any big man it will be him. People need to let passing on Luka go. We have a guy who physically is an Embiid clone without the injury history. He'll eventually be able to shoot 3s and has turned his biggest weakness (defense) coming in into arguably his biggest strength. He's the best switch big in basketball imo aside from Embiid and I don't get why so many think he won't get paid or is one of the problems with this team. We're the 2 seed, so we don't have a ton of problems, and the one we have is PF due to Saric's inconsistency and Monty's continuing love affair with Kaminsky while ignoring that our advanced stats are way better with Cam or Crowder at the 4. We have extra wings with size so we need to go small with the backup unit when Dario is off his game. I still see people preferring Jaren Jackson in some Suns circles. It's embarrassing at this point. The guy will be like a 6X all star and probably will leap to the 3rd best big in the league in the next 2 years behind Jokic and Embiid as Gobert ages and if KAT continues to be this bad on D, and we don't want to keep him?

[thamadkant]

Ayton deserves 20-24 million a year easily.
Not offering it is not an option. He fits in, he has tremendous presence both ends that teams gravitate towards him and he punishes teams when they don't focus on him. And he is helping the team win... Legitimately a key reason why Suns are good. He fits in and willing to play the role they need him to be... No crying or whining.

Jarret Allen couldn't hold Ayton's jocks in all honesty. He's a good rim runner and rim protector but won't punish teams offensively as he hasn't got any offensive talent. People value Allen because he plays a role that benefits many teams... Well Ayton has taken that role and as a bonus when they need him he is there to score and be an offensive option. Just silly talk from too many so called fans here. A two way 22 year old big man playing in a successful system and punishing teams in the flow of the offense... Not taking shots away or hurting ball movement. He ticks it all.

[Frank Lee]

Ayton in his final rookie deal yr Is a tremendous bargain
From that point on, it’s a chunky pay day, but try to find his equivalent any cheaper...who’s not on a rook deal.

[King4Day]

Ayton in his final rookie deal yr Is a tremendous bargain
From that point on, it’s a chunky pay day, but try to find his equivalent any cheaper...who’s not on a rook deal.

That's why, if he won't take less than max, just hold on a season, use the extra cap we will probably have, and then give it to him (assuming he didn't devalue himself)

[bwgood77]

Ayton in his final rookie deal yr Is a tremendous bargain
From that point on, it’s a chunky pay day, but try to find his equivalent any cheaper...who’s not on a rook deal.

That's why, if he won't take less than max, just hold on a season, use the extra cap we will probably have, and then give it to him (assuming he didn't devalue himself)

Yeah, ultimately if they do that with Ayton and Bridges is helps us with cap space for signings. And I don't think it would be a big issue for them as I think they both definitely without a doubt want to be Suns long term.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Good for Monty. Seems like a genuinely good human.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

After reading his story a couple of years back, he's been through it all and for him to win this award, it's a show of his resilience, dedication and he's a deserving winner. 100000% he's a good human being

Monty's story about his wife's passing and being there for Ryan Anderson after his gf's suicide. The guy has been through it all
https://www.si.com/nba/2017/04/06/monty-williams-wife-ingrid-family-tragedy-spurs-thunder-pelicans

That is a really good article. Suns are lucky to have Monty, such an easy guy to root for.



Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

So many people have a Monty is a great guy story.

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[Ghost of Kleine]

Ayton in his final rookie deal yr Is a tremendous bargain
From that point on, it’s a chunky pay day, but try to find his equivalent any cheaper...who’s not on a rook deal.

That's why, if he won't take less than max, just hold on a season, use the extra cap we will probably have, and then give it to him (assuming he didn't devalue himself)

Yeah, ultimately if they do that with Ayton and Bridges is helps us with cap space for signings. And I don't think it would be a big issue for them as I think they both definitely without a doubt want to be Suns long term.

I absolutely agree! Waiting to extend Ayton, Could definitely work out really well for us in terms of having more cap flexibility towards free agent signings ( to further upgrade our roster) as you already so eloquently pointed out. I'm curious though, IF we do in fact choose to wait, Does anyone have any theoretical figures as to potential amounts that we'd be afforded towards free agency?

[bwgood77]

That's why, if he won't take less than max, just hold on a season, use the extra cap we will probably have, and then give it to him (assuming he didn't devalue himself)

Yeah, ultimately if they do that with Ayton and Bridges is helps us with cap space for signings. And I don't think it would be a big issue for them as I think they both definitely without a doubt want to be Suns long term.

I absolutely agree! Waiting to extend Ayton, Could definitely work out really well for us in terms of having more cap flexibility towards free agent signings ( to further upgrade our roster) as you already so eloquently pointed out. I'm curious though, IF we do in fact choose to wait, Does anyone have any theoretical figures as to potential amounts that we'd be afforded towards free agency?

Impossible to know...depends on too many unknown factors like whether CP3 extends or gets a new deal, we use our MLE this summer, make a trade, etc.