2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes

[AtheJ415]

If CP3 can save us 10m+ in FA by getting guys excited to come here I think he can be well worth his contract.

What if CP3 means we can get multiple contracts like:

Dario @6m per
Gallo @10m per
JHoliday @ 7m per
Wood @10m per
Ibaka @10m per

The only reasonable combo I can see right now is Dario and Gallo. Dario will stay regardless of CP3 though so don't see why he'd take a discount for him. Dario can also play some 5.

I would prefer Wood over Gallo personally because I see Wood as being long enough / athletic enough to play the 5.

This means we need to keep 10 to get a PG, and imo we need to trade back into the draft for Riller or Bane to fill out the guard rotation.

[bwgood77]

Am I the only one feeling extremely nervous about this?

Much as I like what James Jones has done in raising the floor of this team, I do NOT trust his or Bower's deal making ability. The Warren and Jackson/Melton trades should serve as reminders.

Are we still complaining about last years draft day trades? The trades that gave us the ability to sign Rubio and Oubre and bought back Carter...?

They were bad trades. We could have simply released Jackson for instance to accomplish the signings mentioned. Also, we traded for Oubre and he was already on the team so not sure what you are talking about. I'm guessing you meant Saric, but the major snafu was Jackson's trade, and it was and still is inexcusable.

We didn't get a particularly good return on the TJ trade either. Wait, we didn't get any return, but gave up a pick there. Even the Oubre trade was a trade where he wasn't who we were trying to target in that trade.

[TheLogician]

I'm excited as hell for this trade. This could be one of the top teams with the right FA additions.

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

[Crives]

If CP3 can save us 10m+ in FA by getting guys excited to come here I think he can be well worth his contract.

What if CP3 means we can get multiple contracts like:

Dario @6m per
Gallo @10m per
JHoliday @ 7m per
Wood @10m per
Ibaka @10m per

Well we couldn't afford more than 2 of those guys, if that.

Two would be pretty nice though.. I could see scenarios where we get three if we clear cap space by trading #10 or utilize a Baynes S&T.

Something like this is possible if we get aggressive.

1. Trade #10 for later pick + future 1st , draft Bane/Riller/Tre.
2. Stay over cap, retain cap holds.
3. Resign Dario to something reasonable.
4. Trade Baynes S&T for FA with the future 1st acquired from trading #10.
5. Get another FA with full MLE
6. Execute CP3 trade (Rubio + Oubre + Jalen)
7. Trade Frank + Jerome + 2021 protected 1st for a solid guard

Rotation could look like

PG - CP3/Kennard/Payne
SG - Booker/Carter/Bane
SF - Bridges/JHoliday
PF - Wood/Cam
C - Ayton/Dario

That’s a team in conversation for a title if CP3 stays healthy and we see more development from our young core.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I'm prepared to not love what they do from an asset standpoint this off-season but I also think they could be a pretty good team when the season starts in Dec.

It's been a long time since I could say that about the Suns.

On the PF thing I still wouldn't rule out Cam Johnson staying the starter. His shooting opens up the floor for Paul and Ayton pick and rolls.


Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[Banana Milk]

Am I the only one feeling extremely nervous about this?

Much as I like what James Jones has done in raising the floor of this team, I do NOT trust his or Bower's deal making ability. The Warren and Jackson/Melton trades should serve as reminders.

Are we still complaining about last years draft day trades? The trades that gave us the ability to sign Rubio and Oubre and bought back Carter...?

They were bad trades. We could have simply released Jackson for instance to accomplish the signings mentioned. Also, we traded for Oubre and he was already on the team so not sure what you are talking about. I'm guessing you meant Saric, but the major snafu was Jackson's trade, and it was and still is inexcusable.

No, I meant Oubre. Oubre was an RFA. The Melton/Jackson salary dump was to clear enough cap for his $9.6m cap hold, which they were $2m short of.
Not saying they were good trades, but they were a means to an end that resulted in Rubio, Saric, Oubre, Baynes, Cam J, Frank and Carter replacing Warren, Jackson, Melton, Jarret Culver and a few 2nds.
Could we have just dumped Jackson? Wasn't his $9m guaranteed?
Dumping JJ and TJ were addition by subtraction in my eyes. Ideally could've not compensated another team to do so, but I also don't place huge value on 2nds considering the hit rate. I don't see "elite potential" in every prospect

Anyway this is the 2020 offseason thread not 2019, so my apologies, I'll get back on topic.

[Slim Charless]

Really hope if we do this we can keep 10. That pick is incredibly important for depth and cheap talent. I imagine that Halliburton, Hayes or Toppin will be there and any of them would be a massive help on this potential CP3 Suns team.

[oddity]

Where does Oubre end up? If Dallas why would they want Oubre over DFS? Oubre scores more but on worse efficiency and they don't need a self creator there. They are pretty similar other than Oubre shooting more but DFS makes $4 million a year through 22. Why would Dallas want to pay 4x that and probably more if they kept him?

Wow seems like you are grossly underestimating Kelly Oubre's value.

[Blonde]

How do we get Chris Paul AND Aaron Gordon? Someone throw together a trade package that could work. I would do it myself but it’s been a long week of work and my brain hurts.

[spanishninja]

I think the Miami Heat showed us this year that veteran leadership can do wonders for a young team. He Paul can come here and be that Jimmy Butler type of influence on our guys, man...

[Slim Charless]

I think the Miami Heat showed us this year that veteran leadership can do wonders for a young team. He Paul can come here and be that Jimmy Butler type of influence on our guys, man...

If he can just get Ayton to the next level that'd be almost worth it by itself. Plus, us getting into the playoffs would be huge for keeping the moral high and Booker happy.

[bwgood77]

Where does Oubre end up? If Dallas why would they want Oubre over DFS? Oubre scores more but on worse efficiency and they don't need a self creator there. They are pretty similar other than Oubre shooting more but DFS makes $4 million a year through 22. Why would Dallas want to pay 4x that and probably more if they kept him?

Wow seems like you are grossly underestimating Kelly Oubre's value.

I just don't think he's almost 4x better than DFS. He's a better scorer, but his scoring isn't particularly on good efficiency. He may even be paid more than 4x than him on the next contract. Though I guess according to one article, they do like Oubre. I am not sure I see them paying him big money next summer though.

[bwgood77]

How do we get Chris Paul AND Aaron Gordon? Someone throw together a trade package that could work. I would do it myself but it’s been a long week of work and my brain hurts.

I was going to mention this because of what's up in the wiretap....I think if we renounce everyone we have a little more than $20 million in cap space. But I don't know if that includes our pick. Our pick would be about $3.5 million. So lets say that drops it to about $17 million in space.

However, the Magic want to trade up and the wiretap says they would want to trade up using 15 and Gordon, and the salary for 15 is abotu $2.7 million, so we'd have closer to $18 million. Gordon makes about $18 million. It seems like it would be close.

But it sounds like we are keeping Saric.

I did think about this too though.

[oddity]

Where does Oubre end up? If Dallas why would they want Oubre over DFS? Oubre scores more but on worse efficiency and they don't need a self creator there. They are pretty similar other than Oubre shooting more but DFS makes $4 million a year through 22. Why would Dallas want to pay 4x that and probably more if they kept him?

Wow seems like you are grossly underestimating Kelly Oubre's value.

I just don't think he's almost 4x better than DFS. He's a better scorer, but his scoring isn't particularly on good efficiency. He may even be paid more than 4x than him on the next contract. Though I guess according to one article, they do like Oubre. I am not sure I see them paying him big money next summer though.

Well idk I don't necessarily think a player getting paid double another's salary should have double the production. There is always the law of diminishing returns at play, so to get better you almost always have to overpay.

[bwgood77]

Wow seems like you are grossly underestimating Kelly Oubre's value.

I just don't think he's almost 4x better than DFS. He's a better scorer, but his scoring isn't particularly on good efficiency. He may even be paid more than 4x than him on the next contract. Though I guess according to one article, they do like Oubre. I am not sure I see them paying him big money next summer though.

Well idk I don't necessarily think a player getting paid double another's salary should have double the production. There is always the law of diminishing returns at play, so to get better you almost always have to overpay.

True, but in this case you are probably getting 75% of the production at least at less than 27% of the cost. I think Dallas would like that he's expiring since they want to go after Giannis if he becomes a FA.

[AtheJ415]

Are we still complaining about last years draft day trades? The trades that gave us the ability to sign Rubio and Oubre and bought back Carter...?

They were bad trades. We could have simply released Jackson for instance to accomplish the signings mentioned. Also, we traded for Oubre and he was already on the team so not sure what you are talking about. I'm guessing you meant Saric, but the major snafu was Jackson's trade, and it was and still is inexcusable.

No, I meant Oubre. Oubre was an RFA. The Melton/Jackson salary dump was to clear enough cap for his $9.6m cap hold, which they were $2m short of.
Not saying they were good trades, but they were a means to an end that resulted in Rubio, Saric, Oubre, Baynes, Cam J, Frank and Carter replacing Warren, Jackson, Melton, Jarret Culver and a few 2nds.
Could we have just dumped Jackson? Wasn't his $9m guaranteed?
Dumping JJ and TJ were addition by subtraction in my eyes. Ideally could've not compensated another team to do so, but I also don't place huge value on 2nds considering the hit rate. I don't see "elite potential" in every prospect

Anyway this is the 2020 offseason thread not 2019, so my apologies, I'll get back on topic.

Oubre was traded for in December, not the offseason. So yeah, why would that be a cap space move for an FA signing? Hell, he was at a position of need and we still have him, so I'm not sure how you could argue that when his expected salary was higher than just letting Ariza go.

Being a means to an end is much less beneficial than maximizing value. Vlade traded picks because he didn't know SAC could stretch a player and it still haunts them. Jackson was considered to have at least some value to a few teams according to Lowe and including Melton, who also had value, to dump both was incredibly dumb and universally laughed at. We could have gotten picks for both of them. Picks that could be used right now to improve the team via trade or draft.

And yes, we could've just dumped Jackson. TJ is drastically better than Oubre. No idea why people value Oubre's fist pumping enough to ignore the overwhelming gap in efficiency and the fact that Oubre is an even bigger black hole.

We could have still signed Rubio, had Saric, Oubre, and drafted Cam. Really all we're talking about is Warren, Melton, Culver, and a few 2nds for Carter, who is at best a replacement level player at this point. We could've grabbed damn near any vet min PG who would be as good as Jevon. I like the guy, but Warren is by far the best player of all the guys mentioned and we flat out dumped him. We could easily be looking at:

Rubio, Warren, Saric, Cam, Melton, with an additional 2nd (so like 3 extra seconds since we wouldn't be sending a couple out), which could be Grant Riller or Killian Tillie in this draft. That's a better team.

And while you may not value small things like 2nds based on hit rate, it's a GM's job to value them. They are tasked with maximizing the ability of the team to compete, and tossing out 2nds left and right when you could be gaining them is a giant problem.

[Kerrsed]

Ok, so i just got done listening to that Podcast with Flex and this is what i took away from it:

CP3 is working his connections. That was straight out said. Talked about a player taking a lower amount to come here and play next to Paul. Kept making references to PF, so im thinking its either Gallinari or Millsap.

Now i didnt mention Melo there, and thats because he is already getting paid the minimum and wouldnt need to take a paycut. Even though he says he likes it in Portland, i tend to believe that if his good friend Chris gave him a call and said we going on a title run with the Suns and could use you as a spark off the bench, he probably would be down with the move.

But then a little bit later he mentioned that they were trying to put something big together and other teams were scared and something about a trade before the CP3 trade, bringing in a guy to put next to Ayton that would help Ayton turn into the monster that he can be, and a guy that just might push CP3 back towards being our #4 scorer (Behind Booker/Ayton and the Mystery man). Well i started looking at Rosters for PF's that we might be able to trade for that could be talking to CP3.......and i hate to say it but Aldridge popped into my mind. Spurs are looking to completely change up their team, if theres a way to get it done a CP3/Booker/Bridges/Aldridge/Ayton squad would be looked at as a top 4 team (Once again Flex mentioned what the Suns were trying to do would easily make us a top 4 team).

It seems like CP3 is really gun-ho about the Suns and made it sound like he is doing everything he can to not only get here, but get others to come here for cheap and a chance to win a ring. So if we could pull off something like i posted above, it wouldnt surprise me if we end up signing guys like Melo and Milsap, former all-stars at the end of the careers getting a season or two to try to finally win a title. Im trying to come up with a few more names that might fit the bill but am drawing a blank, so if anyone can think of one let me know. I was going to say Gay, but i see he still has a full guaranteed year left on his contract.

Also sounds like its a toss up if we keep the pick. We would like to keep it (Or just have a pick in the 1st be it ours or another teams), but we might need to use our #10 in a big 4 way to get CP3, or even in another trade that may be being put together (Sounds like we should know more about THAT deal in a few days).

Draft section wasnt really about any real Suns info, more so opinions about the guards.

Overall it was a real solid podcast, much better than a lot of the Suns podcasts i see. I would recommend.

[AtheJ415]

The PF is very obviously Galo. I would like Wood or Gordon instead personally but Galo would be my 2nd best bet behind them.

[Kerrsed]

And does anyone know if there is a way to restructure a players contract if both the player and FO agree on it? Like Aldridge is set to make $24M next season, what if we say we will extend his contract by 2 years, but instead of $24M he will get $12 for each of the seasons (3yr $36M instead of 1y $24M). Is something like that even possible?