Is Hornacek the problem?

[tdjm]

I think that Hornaceck is a decent coach. He was a rookie coach last year, and he made a good job. Some people said even a great job. BUT things changed in the offseason and the roster is a mess. Too much perimeter players, too much egos, too much selfish players, off court issues, moron players, basketball IQ wanted dead or alive......and some of the better locker room guys ( Frye, Ish and Christmas ) out of the team.
I blame McDonough for this year's fail. He thought about players like assets and not like people, and that was an epic fail. Hopefully he has learned the lesson and he makes significant good changes this offseason and we can enjoy our team better next year.

Yeah, it's McD's fault. Last year we were like 2 deep at each position with some really young guys, and then this year we have so many guards, no one was truly happy. That's just going to happen no matter who the coach decides to play.

That's honestly the main reason I'd be disappointed with firing Hornacek. If he were to be fired and we landed a solid replacement, I wouldn't be upset at all (break eggs, omelet etc.), but the GM who put this abomination of a roster together firing the coach who couldn't get it to work just feels like shirking responsibility at this point. Like...when you have so little big man depth that you have to either play Earl Barron or Markieff Morris at center against Tyson Chandler when Brandan Wright is resting, you know your roster is busted.

That being said, Hornacek stop having so many dumbass rotations that make me shake my fist at my TV - sometimes you make it that much harder for the Suns to win the game with your awful subs

[letsgosuns]

I was happy that at least Hornacek stood up for Goodwin tonight. Goodwin clearly got fouled on I think back to back plays and it was insane they did not call it. Then Hornacek complained and got a technical and I was proud of him for that.

[Son of Ra]

From the latest Grantland article:

[...]Buried under everything: Jeff Hornacek’s mysterious free fall from “2014 Coach of the Year Candidate” to “Possessed by the Spirit of Vinny Del Negro.” No 2014-15 team blew more winnable games in dumber/unluckier/more inexplicable ways than the Suns. They were a 50-win team that somehow went .500. [...]

Glad that some other 'non-fans' see it the same way.

Here's the link to the full article http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-nbas-furious-17-capturing-the-noncontenders-state-of-mind/

[bwgood77]

From the latest Grantland article:

[...]Buried under everything: Jeff Hornacek’s mysterious free fall from “2014 Coach of the Year Candidate” to “Possessed by the Spirit of Vinny Del Negro.” No 2014-15 team blew more winnable games in dumber/unluckier/more inexplicable ways than the Suns. They were a 50-win team that somehow went .500. [...]

Glad that some other 'non-fans' see it the same way.

Here's the link to the full article http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-nbas-furious-17-capturing-the-noncontenders-state-of-mind/

You forgot to quote this part...

Then again, they STILL would have been a top-six seed in the East. Nail the lottery pick in June, sign Knight for a fair price and maybe they’re back in business. Stay positive, Suns fans. I can’t type this strongly enough: I absolutely HATE everything that Phoenix did. There’s just no way that the Suns are better off than they were 10 months ago. If you’re gonna deal Dragic, then keep Isaiah Thomas and that Lakers pick and don’t do the Knight deal. If you’re gonna deal Thomas, then just keep Dragic and the Lakers pick. But how do you end up with no Dragic, no Thomas and no Lakers pick? What the hell just happened?????

That is all on the front office, not Hornacek.

[Son of Ra]

From the latest Grantland article:

[...]Buried under everything: Jeff Hornacek’s mysterious free fall from “2014 Coach of the Year Candidate” to “Possessed by the Spirit of Vinny Del Negro.” No 2014-15 team blew more winnable games in dumber/unluckier/more inexplicable ways than the Suns. They were a 50-win team that somehow went .500. [...]

Glad that some other 'non-fans' see it the same way.

Here's the link to the full article http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-nbas-furious-17-capturing-the-noncontenders-state-of-mind/

You forgot to quote this part...

Then again, they STILL would have been a top-six seed in the East. Nail the lottery pick in June, sign Knight for a fair price and maybe they’re back in business. Stay positive, Suns fans. I can’t type this strongly enough: I absolutely HATE everything that Phoenix did. There’s just no way that the Suns are better off than they were 10 months ago. If you’re gonna deal Dragic, then keep Isaiah Thomas and that Lakers pick and don’t do the Knight deal. If you’re gonna deal Thomas, then just keep Dragic and the Lakers pick. But how do you end up with no Dragic, no Thomas and no Lakers pick? What the hell just happened?????

That is all on the front office, not Hornacek.

I didn't forget it, I intentionally just quoted what was relevant for THIS thread but provided the link to the rest of the article.
I agree that the FO screwed this up significantly fyi and never meant to put all blame on Hornacek

[Revived]

I was happy that at least Hornacek stood up for Goodwin tonight. Goodwin clearly got fouled on I think back to back plays and it was insane they did not call it. Then Hornacek complained and got a technical and I was proud of him for that.

There was a game tonight? No GD thread?

[SunsRback4Good]

I was happy that at least Hornacek stood up for Goodwin tonight. Goodwin clearly got fouled on I think back to back plays and it was insane they did not call it. Then Hornacek complained and got a technical and I was proud of him for that.

There was a game tonight? No GD thread?

I know 'ive been busy lately not because we suck and I gave up on the team. But without game threads it feels like Spurs/OKC board and that hardly happens around here. Sad times for Suns fans I understand but Phoenix is still a large market so they will pull it together and fans shouldn't disappear so quickly.

[Revived]

I was happy that at least Hornacek stood up for Goodwin tonight. Goodwin clearly got fouled on I think back to back plays and it was insane they did not call it. Then Hornacek complained and got a technical and I was proud of him for that.

There was a game tonight? No GD thread?

I know 'ive been busy lately not because we suck and I gave up on the team. But without game threads it feels like Spurs/OKC board and that hardly happens around here. Sad times for Suns fans I understand but Phoenix is still a large market so they will pull it together and fans shouldn't disappear so quickly.

No it's fine, it's understandable that your busy. You've done a great job this season overall.

Maybe next season or remainder of this season we can have on thread for that week's games or something if activity is real low.

[thamadkant]

From the latest Grantland article:

[...]Buried under everything: Jeff Hornacek’s mysterious free fall from “2014 Coach of the Year Candidate” to “Possessed by the Spirit of Vinny Del Negro.” No 2014-15 team blew more winnable games in dumber/unluckier/more inexplicable ways than the Suns. They were a 50-win team that somehow went .500. [...]

Glad that some other 'non-fans' see it the same way.

Here's the link to the full article http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-nbas-furious-17-capturing-the-noncontenders-state-of-mind/

You forgot to quote this part...

Then again, they STILL would have been a top-six seed in the East. Nail the lottery pick in June, sign Knight for a fair price and maybe they’re back in business. Stay positive, Suns fans. I can’t type this strongly enough: I absolutely HATE everything that Phoenix did. There’s just no way that the Suns are better off than they were 10 months ago. If you’re gonna deal Dragic, then keep Isaiah Thomas and that Lakers pick and don’t do the Knight deal. If you’re gonna deal Thomas, then just keep Dragic and the Lakers pick. But how do you end up with no Dragic, no Thomas and no Lakers pick? What the hell just happened?????

That is all on the front office, not Hornacek.

I feel McD went all in for Knight.
His interview in Arizonasports declaring his belief Knight as a leader for the Suns playing only a handful of games tells me he went all in and is banking to make him the main PG going forward... Just a hunch.


Also, more of a tin foil hat feeling, but I'm hoping McD and Hinkie has an under the table deal for the Morris twins.

[nevetsov]

Knight did prove that he could put a team of youngsters on his back and carry them into playoff contention. Sure, it was in the east, but it's more than Bled has shown from a leadership perspective. I think you guys might be right about McD going all in for him. But then what becomes of Bledsoe?

[Mr-Al]

From the latest Grantland article:

Glad that some other 'non-fans' see it the same way.

Here's the link to the full article http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-nbas-furious-17-capturing-the-noncontenders-state-of-mind/

You forgot to quote this part...

Then again, they STILL would have been a top-six seed in the East. Nail the lottery pick in June, sign Knight for a fair price and maybe they’re back in business. Stay positive, Suns fans. I can’t type this strongly enough: I absolutely HATE everything that Phoenix did. There’s just no way that the Suns are better off than they were 10 months ago. If you’re gonna deal Dragic, then keep Isaiah Thomas and that Lakers pick and don’t do the Knight deal. If you’re gonna deal Thomas, then just keep Dragic and the Lakers pick. But how do you end up with no Dragic, no Thomas and no Lakers pick? What the hell just happened?????

That is all on the front office, not Hornacek.

I feel McD went all in for Knight.
His interview in Arizonasports declaring his belief Knight as a leader for the Suns playing only a handful of games tells me he went all in and is banking to make him the main PG going forward... Just a hunch.


Also, more of a tin foil hat feeling, but I'm hoping McD and Hinkie has an under the table deal for the Morris twins.

Hinkie has absolutely no interest in the Morri though

The Morri are somewhat above average semi-veterans that Philly isn't going to need at all

they want a team full of high lottery drafted talent, the Morri don't help in that and will only win them more games, which they don't want

[RunDogGun]

At some point Philly has to start building a team. They gave up on MCW after only a year and a half, and they do need to make a salary minimum. So maybe a Bledsoe deal or a Morrii deal would work for them. With either, they aren't a playoff team, and they have tons of picks already.

If Embid's work ethic is in question, maybe they move him? Sure they would end up winning some games, but since Bledsoe isn't really a play maker, and the Morrii tend to ISO more, and are Philly natives, things don't drastically change, but could put more butts in the seats.

Either way, I'd still like to see a season under Hornacek that is more balanced, before we made any head coaching changes. I'd still like to see the Suns offer Mike Fratello a lead assistant job. Throw as much money needed to get him from commentating. He has ties to Len though the Ukrainian team, and could help Hornacek in game decisions. Mike works well with young players, and seems to still love coaching. I would also try and bring Nash into the coaching fold, and then grab Kareem as a bigs coach.

[Puff]

At some point Philly has to start building a team. They gave up on MCW after only a year and a half, and they do need to make a salary minimum. So maybe a Bledsoe deal or a Morrii deal would work for them. With either, they aren't a playoff team, and they have tons of picks already.

If Embid's work ethic is in question, maybe they move him? Sure they would end up winning some games, but since Bledsoe isn't really a play maker, and the Morrii tend to ISO more, and are Philly natives, things don't drastically change, but could put more butts in the seats.

Either way, I'd still like to see a season under Hornacek that is more balanced, before we made any head coaching changes. I'd still like to see the Suns offer Mike Fratello a lead assistant job. Throw as much money needed to get him from commentating. He has ties to Len though the Ukrainian team, and could help Hornacek in game decisions. Mike works well with young players, and seems to still love coaching. I would also try and bring Nash into the coaching fold, and then grab Kareem as a bigs coach.

Mike Fratello?

Gimme a break. That would be a bigger train wreck than we already have.

Why in the world would Nash come here to play 2nd fiddle to Hornacek? Why in the world would Kareem leave LA for this mess?

I now understand why only vey few agree with what you have to say.

[RunDogGun]

At some point Philly has to start building a team. They gave up on MCW after only a year and a half, and they do need to make a salary minimum. So maybe a Bledsoe deal or a Morrii deal would work for them. With either, they aren't a playoff team, and they have tons of picks already.

If Embid's work ethic is in question, maybe they move him? Sure they would end up winning some games, but since Bledsoe isn't really a play maker, and the Morrii tend to ISO more, and are Philly natives, things don't drastically change, but could put more butts in the seats.

Either way, I'd still like to see a season under Hornacek that is more balanced, before we made any head coaching changes. I'd still like to see the Suns offer Mike Fratello a lead assistant job. Throw as much money needed to get him from commentating. He has ties to Len though the Ukrainian team, and could help Hornacek in game decisions. Mike works well with young players, and seems to still love coaching. I would also try and bring Nash into the coaching fold, and then grab Kareem as a bigs coach.

Mike Fratello?

Gimme a break. That would be a bigger train wreck than we already have.

Why in the world would Nash come here to play 2nd fiddle to Hornacek? Why in the world would Kareem leave LA for this mess?

I now understand why only vey few agree with what you have to say.

Please explain why it would be a train wreck. Your last comment is childish, if you disagree with my thoughts, please explain why, other than hyperbole.

As far as why Nash would come over, there could be a number of reason to do it, and a number to not. But it in no way makes it a bad idea, now does it? As for Kareem, many guys move to take coaching positions all around the country. Me choosing him, is a bad idea?

[Saberestar]

The largely 25-and-under Suns respect Hornacek and his assistants, although they are comfortable enough with the head coach to openly debate him at times. They listen to Hornacek's usual tempered way and react to his anger but were not mature, savvy or team-oriented enough to continue last season's progress. The frustration of players repeating mistakes can be seen on the sideline, when Hornacek turns from a play before its conclusion because of something gone awry.

Hornacek has an ideal relationship with the front office, regularly meeting after practices and games and sharing the same philosophies. It will be interesting to see whether management wants to pick up Hornacek's 2016-17 contract option year and can convince Managing Partner Robert Sarver to do so. It would show their belief in him before next season, his contract's last guaranteed year.

Only about one-third of NBA head coaches have been in their current jobs longer than Hornacek, whose $2 million salary is less than almost two-thirds of the coaches. There is no paranoia about the way Hornacek operates, even if last season's glow has come off a bit in a city where his image has been pristine since he was drafted in 1986.

That secure confidence will serve Hornacek well as head coach if he is given a better roster.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /25744071/

[Sunsss]

^^I was just gonna post that article. Pretty much agree with everything Paul Coro says.

[Puff]

At some point Philly has to start building a team. They gave up on MCW after only a year and a half, and they do need to make a salary minimum. So maybe a Bledsoe deal or a Morrii deal would work for them. With either, they aren't a playoff team, and they have tons of picks already.

If Embid's work ethic is in question, maybe they move him? Sure they would end up winning some games, but since Bledsoe isn't really a play maker, and the Morrii tend to ISO more, and are Philly natives, things don't drastically change, but could put more butts in the seats.

Either way, I'd still like to see a season under Hornacek that is more balanced, before we made any head coaching changes. I'd still like to see the Suns offer Mike Fratello a lead assistant job. Throw as much money needed to get him from commentating. He has ties to Len though the Ukrainian team, and could help Hornacek in game decisions. Mike works well with young players, and seems to still love coaching. I would also try and bring Nash into the coaching fold, and then grab Kareem as a bigs coach.

Mike Fratello?

Gimme a break. That would be a bigger train wreck than we already have.

Why in the world would Nash come here to play 2nd fiddle to Hornacek? Why in the world would Kareem leave LA for this mess?

I now understand why only vey few agree with what you have to say.

Please explain why it would be a train wreck. Your last comment is childish, if you disagree with my thoughts, please explain why, other than hyperbole.

As far as why Nash would come over, there could be a number of reason to do it, and a number to not. But it in no way makes it a bad idea, now does it? As for Kareem, many guys move to take coaching positions all around the country. Me choosing him, is a bad idea?

I just never have enjoyed watching any Fratello coached teams. He has not coached in the NBA for umpteen years, there must be a reason. I also doubt that he would like to be an assistant coach, I expect his TV gig pays as much or more than an assitant's job does.

I don't see Nash coming to Phoenix to coach this group with this owner while being an assistant to Hornacek. I can see him as an assistant coach and would not be surprised if he and D'Antoni end up somewhere together this off season, like Denver or Orlando. I just do not believe he will ever work for Sarver again. I do think that Nash will end up being a head coach at some point, just not Phoenix.

There is much work to do on the Lakers and Kareem is loved in LA. I see no upside for him to move to Phoenix, especially if the ping pong balls go in the favor of the Lakers and they end up with either Okafor or Towns.

I have been down on Hornacek basically for the way this team plays and the apparent lack of leadership he has displayed. Coro wrote today that the players really like and respect him, I hope he is right. Maybe if we just get rid of a few bad apples he can turn this around, next year. I just am not sure who those bad apples are. The likely culprits appear to be the Morris twins along with possibly Bledsoe and Tucker.

If Knight does not get hurt we probably make the playoffs. If we don't dump Thomas while keeping the Laker pick we probably make the playoffs. If we keep Goran we probably make the playoffs. With a good draft pick, a trade and a free agent maybe we will be back in business. I surely hope so, I doubt I can take another season like this one. It was just not enjoyable.

Obviously changes need to take place. As you suggest I also think the coaching staff needs some changes as well, I just cannot see the individuals you suggest as likely candidates.

[RunDogGun]

Thank you Puff, that was well explained and detailed, so that I could see your side of my coaching thoughts. Although the comments in no way explain the "train wreck" comment, it does explain your views.

Fratello was coaching the Ukrainian national team and I would assume he isn't head coaching in the NBA, because of the stress and bs that goes along with it. So maybe he would take a lead assistant job, because from what I've seen from the recent past, he still loves to coach. He also has a fondness for Len, in the draft mock he chose Len as the number one pick, and explained his choice and ties to that player. Now if we decide to move Len for a big named player, then my thoughts on Mike would diminish. However, I still feel that Hornacek would benefit from having a seasoned vet coach as his assistant. Many head coaches have stepped down to be an assistant.

As for pay, obviously we'd have to beat his commentating gigs for the networks he is on, and it would have to be less than Hornacek. Since Hornacek is at $2 million, it might be tough, but still possible. If Mike still loves coaching like I think he does, his knowledge and experience would benefit our team greatly.

I don't know about Nash, I don't think he dislikes Sarver or the team considering we helped him get to a team he wanted to go to. And I think Kareem is only a consultant for the Lakers, I didn't know he is on their coaching staff, is he?

[Revived]

Knight did prove that he could put a team of youngsters on his back and carry them into playoff contention. Sure, it was in the east, but it's more than Bled has shown from a leadership perspective. I think you guys might be right about McD going all in for him. But then what becomes of Bledsoe?

Trade him to the Kings (Vivek does this to please Cousins) for Mclemore + picks?

[Revived]

From the latest Grantland article:

[...]Buried under everything: Jeff Hornacek’s mysterious free fall from “2014 Coach of the Year Candidate” to “Possessed by the Spirit of Vinny Del Negro.” No 2014-15 team blew more winnable games in dumber/unluckier/more inexplicable ways than the Suns. They were a 50-win team that somehow went .500. [...]

Glad that some other 'non-fans' see it the same way.

Here's the link to the full article http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-nbas-furious-17-capturing-the-noncontenders-state-of-mind/

More and more people are catching on to it.