Official Trade Thread: The Block Is Hot!!

RunDogGun · Post #381 » by **RunDogGun** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:29 am

I don't think Dudley wants to come back after fans gave him all those tweets telling him he should lose more games to get a better pick. He seemed happy to leave.

Post #382 » by **bwgood77** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:33 am

RunDogGun wrote:I don't think Dudley wants to come back after fans gave him all those tweets telling him he should lose more games to get a better pick. He seemed happy to leave.

I liked Dudley but I don't really care to have him back. Tucker is better. I'd rather have Middleton. But I'm sure in January he'd rather live in Phoenix than Milwaukee.

bigfoot · Post #383 » by **bigfoot** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:52 am

bwgood77 wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I would be totally fine with it if we knew we'd keep Dragic this summer. But we don't. If keeping IT reduces that possibility, I'd rather get rid of him. I don't think in the long run he helps that much anyway, and could hurt. I do think he messes with chemistry a bit too much. Our team seemed to have far more chemistry without him last year. More ball movement and more happy campers which made it more fun for everyone including fans.

17.2 points, 3.4 assists, 2.2 rebounds, 1.5 steals, 4.5 free throw attempts, .897 free throw percentage, .476 three point percentage, .490 field goal percentage, 27.5 minutes per game. That's IT numbers in January. That's gonna be hard to replace.

I think it is premature to dump IT because it takes time for players to gel together as a team. The Cavs are a good example. Played like crap for a three months and now playing well.

I think we can easily get Dragic to sign with the Suns again. We will pay him a fair value, for example Lowry-like salary at $12M to $13M per year. Zoran is signed for another year which should help with his decision to stay in Phoenix.

If we end up re-signing Dragic, that is cool. I know IT is a valuable player, and his numbers look good and we play well when he is on the floor. But I'd like to see those assist numbers up. If he is a PG, 17 and 3 is just not what I like to see. He has great percentages so that is efficient but I want to also see other players get involved. Especially if some of our young guys get in games with him. I don't want guys like TJ Warren to have their on court development stifled from playing with IT.

Ultimately, if he gets more comfortable with who he is playing with, and passes a bit more, Dragic stays, and he doesn't mind taking the 6th man role, I think he will be a very valuable guy to have. I've just never been a personal fan of guys that dribble for 20 seconds and shoot.....but at least his shooting %s are good in January. I assume they are not that good for the entire season or his career though, so he will likely regress from what you have posted.

I don't think IT dribbles for 20 seconds and shoots very often. I'd challenge folks to watch plays where IT has the ball. We could check that tonight. Shouldn't count when he dribbles the ball while other players are running screens and trying to get open. He is the PG after all and is looking to make the play work. If the play doesn't work or is defended well then what?? I'd expect one of our better bench players, especially on offense, to take the shot.

Post #384 » by **Qwigglez** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:00 am

^Agree with you again Bigfoot. IT isn't as selfish as you might think. And actually, IT is averaging 3.7 assist per game this season in 25.5 minutes. While Dragic is averaging 4.1 in 33 minutes.

NaturalBuns · Post #385 » by **NaturalBuns** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:01 am

I would rather play Goodwin then have Dudley. Green>>>Dudley. If suns could package plum/green for a 1st they should.

Team has enough 3pt shooters letting Goodwin play is not that bad and he doesn't have to get a lot of minutes

schnakenpopanz · Post #386 » by **schnakenpopanz** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:05 am

goodwin will be the next anthony randolph if he does not live up to some people's expectations

bigfoot · Post #387 » by **bigfoot** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:08 am

NaturalBuns wrote:I would rather play Goodwin then have Dudley. Green>>>Dudley. If suns could package plum/green for a 1st they should.

Team has enough 3pt shooters letting Goodwin play is not that bad and he doesn't have to get a lot of minutes

Goodwin is not ready this season to play against the big boys. If we move Green we need to get back something that will help move us towards the playoffs. If we move Plumlee we certainly need another big. A 1st round pick doesn't help us ... we already have a bunch of those sitting on the bench and a few more next year.

Dudley fills two spots ... he could play SG/SF. All around, I think he is better than both Green and Marcus. Seriously he is way better on defense and our bench is getting killed in that area. Green and Marcus are two of the worst defenders in the league based on the advanced stat defensive real plus minus.

NaturalBuns · Post #388 » by **NaturalBuns** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:19 am

bigfoot wrote:
NaturalBuns wrote:I would rather play Goodwin then have Dudley. Green>>>Dudley. If suns could package plum/green for a 1st they should.

Team has enough 3pt shooters letting Goodwin play is not that bad and he doesn't have to get a lot of minutes

Goodwin is not ready this season to play against the big boys. If we move Green we need to get back something that will help move us towards the playoffs. If we move Plumlee we certainly need another big. A 1st round pick doesn't help us ... we already have a bunch of those sitting on the bench and a few more next year.

Dudley fills two spots ... he could play SG/SF. All around, I think he is better than both Green and Marcus. Seriously he is way better on defense and our bench is getting killed in that area. Green and Marcus are two of the worst defenders in the league based on the advanced stat defensive real plus minus.

I watched Dudley play with one of the best passing pgs of all time and he still didn't put up impressive stats. Not in the same relm as green in terms of skill. He was suppose to be the missing piece for the clippers only to fall behind and out of rotation. Green>>>

The positive stuff he brings is locker room leadership. His defense is meh... Not worth talking about. If we trade green it should be for a pick since this team has no use for him longterm.

I think suns should keep him but I wouldn't mind flipping a pick that can turn into a package trade later down the road while also seeing Goodwin get 10-12mins a game.

BurningHeart · Post #389 » by **BurningHeart** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:24 am

Qwigglez wrote:^Agree with you again Bigfoot. IT isn't as selfish as you might think. And actually, IT is averaging 3.7 assist per game this season in 25.5 minutes. While Dragic is averaging 4.1 in 33 minutes.

How much less is Dragic touching the ball compared to last year? Is there a stat for this? If it's 4.1 assists in 33 minutes but he's touching the ball far less, then 4.1 isn't as unimpressive as it seems.

NaturalBuns · Post #390 » by **NaturalBuns** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:26 am

BurningHeart wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:^Agree with you again Bigfoot. IT isn't as selfish as you might think. And actually, IT is averaging 3.7 assist per game this season in 25.5 minutes. While Dragic is averaging 4.1 in 33 minutes.

How much less is Dragic touching the ball compared to last year? Is there a stat for this? If it's 4.1 assists in 33 minutes but he's touching the ball far less, then 4.1 isn't as unimpressive as it seems.

Dragic peak was when Bledsoe was hurt last year with a natural SG in green.

But the team played better with Bledsoe & Dragic. So it's a double edge sword

bigfoot · Post #391 » by **bigfoot** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:28 am

NaturalBuns wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
NaturalBuns wrote:I would rather play Goodwin then have Dudley. Green>>>Dudley. If suns could package plum/green for a 1st they should.

Team has enough 3pt shooters letting Goodwin play is not that bad and he doesn't have to get a lot of minutes

Goodwin is not ready this season to play against the big boys. If we move Green we need to get back something that will help move us towards the playoffs. If we move Plumlee we certainly need another big. A 1st round pick doesn't help us ... we already have a bunch of those sitting on the bench and a few more next year.

Dudley fills two spots ... he could play SG/SF. All around, I think he is better than both Green and Marcus. Seriously he is way better on defense and our bench is getting killed in that area. Green and Marcus are two of the worst defenders in the league based on the advanced stat defensive real plus minus.

I watched Dudley play with one of the best passing pgs of all time and he still didn't put up impressive stats. Not in the same relm as green in terms of skill. He was suppose to be the missing piece for the clippers only to fall behind and out of rotation. Green>>>

The positive stuff he brings is locker room leadership. His defense is meh... Not worth talking about. If we trade green it should be for a pick since this team has no use for him longterm.

I think suns should keep him but I wouldn't mind flipping a pick that can turn into a package trade later down the road while also seeing Goodwin get 10-12mins a game.

Dudley - Offensive rating 104.0/95.2/8.7 (offensive rating/defensive rating/net rating) - defensive rating 6th best in league
Green - Offensive rating 109.4/108.6/0.8 - defensive rating 19th worst in league

You have to talk about defense. Dudley is still one of the better defenders in the league. Green is worthless if he is not hitting his shots ... which is often. We have all bitched about Green missing shots and making stupid plays. At least Dudley helps on the other end of the court.

Post #392 » by **Qwigglez** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:28 am

Oh, I'm not a advanced stats kinda guy BH, lol. I find all my stats on ESPN.com. I think Goran is getting more spot up shots, which isn't his game. I don't think it's Dragic's fault. I think Hornacek put him in a position where he isn't making plays for others.

NBA Fiend · Post #393 » by **NBA Fiend** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:31 am

Lopez doing his best to get sent out of town.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400578991" target="_blank" target="_blank

Still think he winds up in OKC if the Nets decide to move him. The thing with his contract is that he has a PO. If the Suns were to trade for him and he opted out would the Suns have his bird rights? Lets say the Suns trade for him and he does opt out, Suns get cap space to after marquee F.A. Then use bird rights to re-sign Dragic and Lopez. Forget cyberex, I am paging Not Traxee with under three weeks to go until the trade deadline.

BurningHeart · Post #394 » by **BurningHeart** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:37 am

Gerald Green shoots a worse percentage from 3 than Dudley. I'm all for upgrading our three point gunners, as all of you well know.

Post #395 » by **bwgood77** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:42 am

BurningHeart wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:^Agree with you again Bigfoot. IT isn't as selfish as you might think. And actually, IT is averaging 3.7 assist per game this season in 25.5 minutes. While Dragic is averaging 4.1 in 33 minutes.

How much less is Dragic touching the ball compared to last year? Is there a stat for this? If it's 4.1 assists in 33 minutes but he's touching the ball far less, then 4.1 isn't as unimpressive as it seems.

Yeah, he plays minutes with Bledsoe mostly and they alternate ballhandling. IT plays a lot with Green and IT is the ballhandler, so comparing Dragic's assists per minute don't make sense. He stands as a spot up shooter half the time.

NaturalBuns · Post #396 » by **NaturalBuns** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:43 am

bigfoot wrote:
NaturalBuns wrote:
bigfoot wrote:

Goodwin is not ready this season to play against the big boys. If we move Green we need to get back something that will help move us towards the playoffs. If we move Plumlee we certainly need another big. A 1st round pick doesn't help us ... we already have a bunch of those sitting on the bench and a few more next year.

Dudley fills two spots ... he could play SG/SF. All around, I think he is better than both Green and Marcus. Seriously he is way better on defense and our bench is getting killed in that area. Green and Marcus are two of the worst defenders in the league based on the advanced stat defensive real plus minus.

I watched Dudley play with one of the best passing pgs of all time and he still didn't put up impressive stats. Not in the same relm as green in terms of skill. He was suppose to be the missing piece for the clippers only to fall behind and out of rotation. Green>>>

The positive stuff he brings is locker room leadership. His defense is meh... Not worth talking about. If we trade green it should be for a pick since this team has no use for him longterm.

I think suns should keep him but I wouldn't mind flipping a pick that can turn into a package trade later down the road while also seeing Goodwin get 10-12mins a game.

Dudley - Offensive rating 104.0/95.2/8.7 (offensive rating/defensive rating/net rating) - defensive rating 6th best in league
Green - Offensive rating 109.4/108.6/0.8 - defensive rating 19th worst in league

You have to talk about defense. Dudley is still one of the better defenders in the league. Green is worthless if he is not hitting his shots ... which is often. We have all bitched about Green missing shots and making stupid plays. At least Dudley helps on the other end of the court.

Jared Dudley is barely getting 7ppg.
Advanced stats falter to that

RunDogGun · Post #397 » by **RunDogGun** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:11 am

Well first Dudley is averaging 7.6 points per game. Next he is shooting half as many shots as Green, at a better percentage. So the stats aren't falty, it was your use of points per game, without looking at the shots taken to get those points.

I'm not saying I perfer Dudley to Green, but if our goal was to get better defensively while getting smarter, it isn't really a tough choice.

RaisingArizona · Post #398 » by **RaisingArizona** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:14 am

Someone please explain to me the infatuation with Dudley? He'd be buried on the bench most nights and he doesn't exactly fit the bill as being a young guy.

Revived · Post #399 » by **Revived** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:26 am

ginobiliflops wrote:Someone please explain to me the infatuation with Dudley? He'd be buried on the bench most nights and he doesn't exactly fit the bill as being a young guy.

Green isn't young either.

RaisingArizona · Post #400 » by **RaisingArizona** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:38 am

SF88 wrote:
ginobiliflops wrote:Someone please explain to me the infatuation with Dudley? He'd be buried on the bench most nights and he doesn't exactly fit the bill as being a young guy.

Green isn't young either.

I think the writing is on the wall for Green to not even play a minute tonight.