Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion

[Zelaznyrules]

Bledsoe isn't worth an unprotected 1st from the Kings alone

I disagree. At this point in the season, he's easily worth it IMO. Late in the season, when he can no longer have much of an impact on their final standing, perhaps not. But right now, he's liable to add enough wins to that lineup to drop that pick far enough to make it feasible. I'm not saying the deal is feasible, just contesting your point that Bledsoe by himself is not worth the unprotected number 1 pick.

Bledsoe is a known quantity. He'll give you 18/5/5 which is pretty good but he's not a leader, he's likely in his prime already, he has a history of injuries and he has a style that's doesn't age well. The King's 1st round pick could very well be a top 3 pick and with a draft heavy in PG talent, there's a good chance you could replace Bledsoe with a similarly talented but less experienced player.

I don't think he's worth a top pick in the next draft.

You're looking at a franchise that has to decide whether to make one last run at keeping Cousins or start shopping him. Adding Bledsoe lowers the value of that draft pick and increases the likelihood that DeMarcus will want to stay. They aren't bad enough to get the top pick or even close to it and unless they get rid of Cousins, that's not likely to change. This year they look to probably end up no better than 8th or 9 pick, with Bledsoe they might even make the playoffs. Getting Eric for the 8th pick is a bargain, getting him for the 12th pick is larceny.

[Qwigglez]

I think if Boogie told his FO that he wanted Bledsoe and Bledsoe was made available then they would absolutely need to do everything in their power to make it happen.
Could probably do something like...
Bledsoe/Len for WCS/Koufos/Collison + draft pick. Koufos is added for matching salary purposes.

[Damkac]

How about Knight for WCS/Collison?

[OnceUponADime]

Pelicans keep losing.

I think Dell's got one more dumb, nervous trade in him before he's finally fired

Thing is that other than AD, they have nothing that anyone else would really want. Most of their active roster right now is players nobody has heard of before. Their 2nd best player currently (due to injuries to Evans & Holliday) is Tim Frazier...

[NavLDO]

True, but it wasn't nearly as bad as Mar/Apr, which were abysmal. that's all I'm saying, but then again, last night he shot 31% again, so it appears he's NOT going to be shooting much, if any, better this year. So if he keeps this up, there's no way he even sniffs 8 figures. I don't care who's getting what right now, none of those centers are shooting anywhere near as abysmally as Len is, and while he had 3 blocks 2 games ago, last night? Zilch.

So he's not really providing rim protection (please tell me if I'm wrong here), he's not rebounding all that well, we've established he's not shooting worth a darn, so what the heck IS he providing that is worth $10M (not directed at you lilfishi-in general)

I've been on Len's side all summer and through preseason, but now? It's clear he has issues that he's not going to resolve here. He needs to go somewhere else, and if I'm his agent, I'm begging McD to make a trade so he has an opportunity somewhere else to get the help he needs before his first contract is up, because he's NOT getting what he needs here. Some other coach might actually be able to get him back to where he was in seasons 1 and 2, when he at least looked somewhat decent.

Honestly, I don't think his open midrange jumpers are that bad. He's just so bad in the post, I'd RATHER he get himself open for the midrange sometimes. I think he just doesn't react well to contact. He also doesn't have a very good touch around the rim even with minimal defense.

The only thing that might still get him paid is his age. Some team (not sure who) may still want to take a chance on him.

Exactly, and I should have clarified that I meant he wouldn't sniff 8 figures from the Suns, but I do believe he has a chance to do better on another team, and if he does, then yes, he could play himself into a $12-16M per contract. Because if Miles Plumlee can get $12.5M, then Len should be able to, on talent and age alone...I just don't think it will happen for us if he finishes this season with us the way he started it. Athletic, rim-protecting Big or not, shooting 33% on the season and averaging just 1 Blk per game, and assuming he's not producing anywhere else in his game, like legit rebounding, then I would even be upset if they paid him $10M per year, and as we all know, I've been a staunch defender of his since we drafted him.

[bwgood77]

Bledsoe isn't worth an unprotected 1st from the Kings alone

I disagree. At this point in the season, he's easily worth it IMO. Late in the season, when he can no longer have much of an impact on their final standing, perhaps not. But right now, he's liable to add enough wins to that lineup to drop that pick far enough to make it feasible. I'm not saying the entire deal is feasible, just contesting your point that Bledsoe by himself is not worth the unprotected number 1 pick.

Even if healthy he's not worth it for a team that always drafts in lottery, but with his injury concerns he's definitely not worth it, particularly to a team that now has Collison and Lawson. Bledsoe doesn't hold much trade value right now. He's been injured half out of two of the last three seasons.

[NavLDO]

What would people think of this trade? http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=gt355yw

Knight/Len/Tucker for Kanter/Morrow/Christon?

OKC desperately needs a scoring guard, and they could let Tucker go or deal him later, and decide what to do with Len later.

I'd also do a Knight/Tucker for Kanter/Morrow and look to deal Len elsewhere.

This would give us a second unit of Ulis/Morrow/Bender/Chriss and Kanter. Kanter is offense, but on second unit the offense is probably more key than defense. Ulis gets everyone involved instead of Knight dribbling and Len throwing up shots and missing (Kanter great offensively).

Morrow is a career 42% 3 pt shooter and is expiring so could decide what to do in offseason with him, but he could just spot up on perimeter to spread the floor for Kanter in middle.

Sign me up. But what is pitiful, is, I wouldn't have touched that trade with 'a ten-foot stick', as they say, last year at this time. That's how bad Knight, Len, and Tucker have regressed in one year.

The other thing that irritates the crap out of me is that the Thunder got Jerami Grant!!! Why!?!? Why, McD, did you not make this happen for us for Len and a pick Would've been a better deal for the Sixers, as that pick is going to hold more value, and is Ersan Ilyasova THAT much better a prize than Len??

Ugh!?!? I've wanted one, or both of, Grant or Holmes from the Sixers since the end of last year...and BOOM...there goes one, and llfishi suggested going from Holmes a couple pages back, and I'm al for that, but the Sixers really like Holmes, so there goes that pipe dream. All we could hope to get now would be Noel or Jahlil...aarghh...

[bwgood77]

I'd approach the Bucks with a Knight for Henson offer straight up. They both have very similar contracts and could both fit a need with their new team.

They originally didnt want a shooting PG like Knight and ditched him for MCW. Now with The Greek Alphabet playing point-forward, i think they would be more open to having some firepower at the PG spot over Dellavedova.

Henson would give us a presence in the paint at C, rebounding and defending the rim. He also would make Len a lot more expendable in trade.

Henson could be a less injury prone Noel for us. His Per-36 #'s for rebounding are an insane 16 rebounds (Over Lens 8.8)! He's currently only getting 14 MPG due to a stacked Bucks rotation, but still his numbers are comparable to Lens at over 20 MPG, but with added defense.

Trade #1 Knight to MIL for Henson

As for trade #2...... I'd call the Kings and tell them they have once chance to say yes. Bledsoe for WCS/Gay/2017 1st unprotected

Then Flip Gay to a 3rd team. Trade off Tucker and Chandler to contenders for young pieces and draft picks.

Ulis
Booker/Dudley
Warren/Bender
Chriss/Henson
WCS/Chandler

The season will be written off as a loss, but we can get plenty of real-world experience for our youngsters. Go after a top of the draft PG like Fox or Fultz.

Do you realize how bad Henson is playing? He is shooting 38.5% and averaging less than 3ppg and 6 boards. It's not like he's a rookie either. He's in like his 4th year.

WCS hasn't played well either. Well behind Koufos in rotation.

But MIL won't want Knight go since they really wanted to get rid of him as they didn't want to pay him and didn't even want the Lakers pick or Dragic for him. And that is HUGE haul for Bledsoe anyway. Unprotected 1st, Gay AND WCS? Even if they desperately needed a PG Bledsoe isn't worth the pick alone.

[bwgood77]

What would people think of this trade? http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=gt355yw

Knight/Len/Tucker for Kanter/Morrow/Christon?

OKC desperately needs a scoring guard, and they could let Tucker go or deal him later, and decide what to do with Len later.

I'd also do a Knight/Tucker for Kanter/Morrow and look to deal Len elsewhere.

This would give us a second unit of Ulis/Morrow/Bender/Chriss and Kanter. Kanter is offense, but on second unit the offense is probably more key than defense. Ulis gets everyone involved instead of Knight dribbling and Len throwing up shots and missing (Kanter great offensively).

Morrow is a career 42% 3 pt shooter and is expiring so could decide what to do in offseason with him, but he could just spot up on perimeter to spread the floor for Kanter in middle.

Sign me up. But what is pitiful, is, I wouldn't have touched that trade with 'a ten-foot stick', as they say, last year at this time. That's how bad Knight, Len, and Tucker have regressed in one year.

The other thing that irritates the crap out of me is that the Thunder got Jerami Grant!!! Why!?!? Why, McD, did you not make this happen for us for Len and a pick Would've been a better deal for the Sixers, as that pick is going to hold more value, and is Ersan Ilyasova THAT much better a prize than Len??

Ugh!?!? I've wanted one, or both of, Grant or Holmes from the Sixers since the end of last year...and BOOM...there goes one, and llfishi suggested going from Holmes a couple pages back, and I'm al for that, but the Sixers really like Holmes, so there goes that pipe dream. All we could hope to get now would be Noel or Jahlil...aarghh...

OKC fans are not all that happy with the Grant trade. He's shooting 35% this year (39% for career and 27% from 3). Why with Warren and Bender? And Dudley and even Tucker for now? He's ok defensively but that's about it.

[NavLDO]

Spoiler:

I'd approach the Bucks with a Knight for Henson offer straight up. They both have very similar contracts and could both fit a need with their new team.

They originally didnt want a shooting PG like Knight and ditched him for MCW. Now with The Greek Alphabet playing point-forward, i think they would be more open to having some firepower at the PG spot over Dellavedova.

Henson would give us a presence in the paint at C, rebounding and defending the rim. He also would make Len a lot more expendable in trade.

Henson could be a less injury prone Noel for us. His Per-36 #'s for rebounding are an insane 16 rebounds (Over Lens 8.8)! He's currently only getting 14 MPG due to a stacked Bucks rotation, but still his numbers are comparable to Lens at over 20 MPG, but with added defense.

Trade #1 Knight to MIL for Henson

As for trade #2...... I'd call the Kings and tell them they have once chance to say yes. Bledsoe for WCS/Gay/2017 1st unprotected

Then Flip Gay to a 3rd team. Trade off Tucker and Chandler to contenders for young pieces and draft picks.

Ulis
Booker/Dudley
Warren/Bender
Chriss/Henson
WCS/Chandler

The season will be written off as a loss, but we can get plenty of real-world experience for our youngsters. Go after a top of the draft PG like Fox or Fultz.

So, how does that work?? We rent Chandler for some games here or there from the team we trade Chandler to??

J/K...but yeah, I'm open to a lot of options right about now, but I think, as I believe you mentioned in an earlier post, just put Booker as the PG, and yeah, you can play Ulis and Booker together in short stints, but we'd need another PG more likely...OR, have Booker be our starting PG, and have Jenkins and or DJ Jr. get more time at the 2...why not??? That team, as constructed, isn't getting very far as is, unless the 'pieces' we get back from trading Gay, Chandler, and Tucker are better options at the 2...or 1 (vs Booker)...

[Villalobos]

Pelicans keep losing.

I think Dell's got one more dumb, nervous trade in him before he's finally fired

Thing is that other than AD, they have nothing that anyone else would really want. Most of their active roster right now is players nobody has heard of before. Their 2nd best player currently (due to injuries to Evans & Holliday) is Tim Frazier...

They've got their pick though. I was thinking something like this:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=z4gyrts
+
Suns get Pelicans' 2017 top 3 (or 4, or 5) protected 1st
Pelicans get Miami's 2018 top 7 protected 1st

The Suns eat a bad contract. Asik is basically done. He's not an NBA player anymore and he's on a 4 year deal and it will only get worse. Knight is Tyreke/Jrue insurance, both for injuries and if one or both leaves in free agency, or they think Tyreke will be too expensive for his talent/production and they don't plan on re-signing him anyway. A GM like Dell could fool himself into thinking a young 7-footer like Len could break out with the right coach and environment. And with the Suns giving him up, that means literally only one other team would feasibly offer him a big contract: the Nets; I can only see that happening if they strike out on every other player they want and/or Brook Lopez gets traded. Finally, the Pels lose their pick this year but get a nice additional pick next year that they could either use to draft or as a trade piece.

None of this, of course, would actually fix their problems. It's just something a foolish, panicked GM might fool themselves into doing to "save" this season and "win now." Not that he has a lot of options, to be fair. They're on the verge of wasting another year of AD's career and the trade market is meager.

[NavLDO]

I think McD and his 'mentor'/former boss need to be in some discussions on how they can help each other out. Boston got 'stuck' with a bunch of draft picks this past season they didn't want, and I believe, as a result, does not have the 'contender' they were hoping for.

Maybe Bledsoe for a couple of their youngsters or guys they are overloaded with at the Center position and PG position. Maybe a change of scenery for a few of our guys, and a few of their guys, might benefit both teams...what do we have to lose, really?

Shocking, I know, that I would come up with a 'whack' trade, but this would be all about potential, and with Boston ready to compete now, and seeing that we are not, how would you all feel about this (and remember...this is 'banking' on the fact that a change of scenery MAY help these players out; I know a couple of these guys 'suck', but again, this would be an 'experiment' of sorts, and worst case, the Celtics get a decent PG in Bledsoe, and we have guys that we can dump without hurting us too much.)

Let's face it--Smart and Young have so far, been disappointments for the Celts, and Len has been a disappointment for us. Mickey is an unknown, as is Jenkins. Johnson is a Salary Filler for Bledsoe. And Olynyk, as goofy as he looks, would be a likely upgrade over Len. And Tucker is a Vet that MIGHT be able to do some things for them in a bench role to help them out. We'd have to either add Sauce or cut him, and assuming the Celts do not need him, I left him out. And I'm putting Bender at the 5, but he could go anywhere, obviously from 3-5.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=z2tc5ur

Smart/Ulis
Booker/Knight/Barbosa
Warren/Young/DJ Jr.
Chriss/Mickey/Dudley/Johnson
Olynyk/Bender/Chandler (Yeah, I know, Chandler would be pissed, but hey, it's about our youth at this point.)

That gives us an 'under 25' team (not counting Knight as he turns 25 next month and, well, he sucks-- ) of:

Booker, Warren, Smart, Ulis, Young, Mickey, DJ Jr., Chriss, and Bender

9 of 15 guys, with 2 others BEING 25, so, that's a really young team. BUT, we still have Chandler, Dudley, Johnson, and Barbosa for that Vet leadership (though Barbosa is not impressing me so far in that regard).

This sets us up nicely to take a PG or C early next year, and since those are the two positions we don't have a young 'powerhouse stud' in development (unless you count Bender as a true Center, but I really see him as a 'jack of all trades' sort).

Anyway, what do you think? Would giving up Bledsoe be a deal killer for you all???

[m1chal]

Panic moves everywhere. No matter how bad Len has been playing he's a young mobile 7-footer, they are not that easy to come by. I bet he's staying in Phx the whole season for further evaluation. If he continues sucking we'll retain him on the cheap or S'n'T in the offseason. Trading him away just so few posters here don't have to watch his struggles is not a wise business decision
And, since obviously we're a bad team (again), I think it's time to think of trading veterans. I bet there will be takers for Chandler, Tucker, Bledsoe and maybe even Knight at the deadline. Get picks and rook deals instead. A Phoenix version of THE PROCESS. And under any conditions do not trade Miami's or our picks, these are pure gold these days.

[Dambo]

Haters will hate but.. Bender is gonna bust just like len

[Synyster9]

@bwgood I got your personal message and tried to reply to you but it said I can't cause i just created my account (which is weird..) but I've been super busy with a lot of things and will hopefully be able to contribute more in the near future.

Glad to have you back posting. When it says "just created account" it is referring to # of posts because you need a certain number before having the ability to PM.

Gotcha, I'll start the spamming! haha

[Zelaznyrules]

Panic moves everywhere. No matter how bad Len has been playing he's a young mobile 7-footer, they are not that easy to come by. I bet he's staying in Phx the whole season for further evaluation. If he continues sucking we'll retain him on the cheap or S'n'T in the offseason. Trading him away just so few posters here don't have to watch his struggles is not a wise business decision
And, since obviously we're a bad team (again), I think it's time to think of trading veterans. I bet there will be takers for Chandler, Tucker, Bledsoe and maybe even Knight at the deadline. Get picks and rook deals instead. A Phoenix version of THE PROCESS. And under any conditions do not trade Miami's or our picks, these are pure gold these days.

Are we? We've yet to see Booker play healthy and it's reasonable to expect Bledsoe to struggle a little while he comes back from missing most of a season. And it's not like we've played poorly other than the second unit versus the Kings. I don't think we're a playoff contender but had Len taken the next step that some of us expected, I believe we would have been in the running for the postseason. As it is, barring injuries and unless we start focusing on playing the young guys, I think we're a 35 to 40 win team or thereabouts. So, maybe "bad team", depending on definition of bad, but not likely to be at the bottom IMO.

[darealjuice]

Haters will hate but.. Bender is gonna bust just like len

Yup it's incredibly obvious that the youngest player in the league is going to bust after watching him for a total of 29 minutes.. haters gonna hate, but that's all the time I need to know

[bwgood77]

Panic moves everywhere. No matter how bad Len has been playing he's a young mobile 7-footer, they are not that easy to come by. I bet he's staying in Phx the whole season for further evaluation. If he continues sucking we'll retain him on the cheap or S'n'T in the offseason. Trading him away just so few posters here don't have to watch his struggles is not a wise business decision
And, since obviously we're a bad team (again), I think it's time to think of trading veterans. I bet there will be takers for Chandler, Tucker, Bledsoe and maybe even Knight at the deadline. Get picks and rook deals instead. A Phoenix version of THE PROCESS. And under any conditions do not trade Miami's or our picks, these are pure gold these days.

Are we? We've yet to see Booker play healthy and it's reasonable to expect Bledsoe to struggle a little while he comes back from missing most of a season. And it's not like we've played poorly other than the second unit versus the Kings. I don't think we're a playoff contender but had Len taken the next step that some of us expected, I believe we would have been in the running for the postseason. As it is, barring injuries and unless we start focusing on playing the young guys, I think we're a 35 to 40 win team or thereabouts. So, maybe "bad team", depending on definition of bad, but not likely to be at the bottom IMO.

Many of our players have played bad, but it's crazy that despite all that, and Booker being off, Knight shooting terribly and turning it over more than he assists, and Len's play, we still played GS so closely and OKC as well (though they haven't looked so good and barely beat Philly).

I don't really see any teams we are clearly better than in the west though. The Pelicans and Lakers haven't looked good, so maybe them, but those are probably the only two we have a chance being better than, which is fine by me if we play our young guys. If we play Tucker and Barbosa a lot it will be ridiculous.

[King4Day]

Bledsoe isn't worth an unprotected 1st from the Kings alone

I agree given the Kings will be bad again.
However, since the 76ers have the right to swap firsts for that idiotic trade last season, we don't have a say in it really.

I'd be happy just getting WCS from them.

[Damkac]

What would people think of this trade? http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=gt355yw

Knight/Len/Tucker for Kanter/Morrow/Christon?

OKC desperately needs a scoring guard, and they could let Tucker go or deal him later, and decide what to do with Len later.

I'd also do a Knight/Tucker for Kanter/Morrow and look to deal Len elsewhere.

This would give us a second unit of Ulis/Morrow/Bender/Chriss and Kanter. Kanter is offense, but on second unit the offense is probably more key than defense. Ulis gets everyone involved instead of Knight dribbling and Len throwing up shots and missing (Kanter great offensively).

Morrow is a career 42% 3 pt shooter and is expiring so could decide what to do in offseason with him, but he could just spot up on perimeter to spread the floor for Kanter in middle.

Sign me up. But what is pitiful, is, I wouldn't have touched that trade with 'a ten-foot stick', as they say, last year at this time. That's how bad Knight, Len, and Tucker have regressed in one year.

I think the same. Not only because bad playing by Len, Knight and Tucker but also because of those crazy contract that big men are geting today. Kanter's contract don't looks so bad now and I would prefer Kanter at 17-18 milions than Len at few milions less.
Good thing is that Chandler's contract don't looks bad anymore. Before this season I would love to gave Chandler for nothing but now I'm not sure if I want him traded at all.

Haters will hate but.. Bender is gonna bust just like len

Yup it's incredibly obvious that the youngest player in the league is going to bust after watching him for a total of 29 minutes.. haters gonna hate, but that's all the time I need to know

I really like what he showed in that 29 minutes.