Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight

[phnart]

I wonder what version of Brandon Knight we'll see once the trade deadline passes? He seems like a thin-skinned dude and constantly hearing you are basically worthless at every turn has got to be in his head. I don't expect much from him, or sadly, anyone on the team at this point, but once the deadline passes and he's still a Sun, will he get his game together at all? At one point, the local media was pimping him to be a potential team leader...how I miss those days.

As long as he is in a diff jersey idc what version we get. Ill be very angry if we dont trade either him or bledsoe this off season

Washington Generals maybe...or some Chinese team.

[lilfishi22]

I respect the Raps for going all in and staring at the lux tax this summer. When you're that close you might as well try. Who knows maybe Cleveland suffers some injuries and you make a finals. The only thing I question is if you're going to take this approach why not poney up a a little more and get Paul Milsap instead? He's the superior player and while he's a little older than Serge I don't trust that Serge is really 27 so that cancels that out IMO.

I hope so, I'm in Toronto in early June so the only time I'll be able to catch a game is if they make the Finals lol

I think Ibaka over Millsap makes sense. He's the better defender of the two and with JV already being a good offensive player, I think he'll have more of an impact than Millsap. JV's minutes have been limited mainly because he's lacking on the defensive and Ibaka imo covers up a lot of his weaknesses especially on the PnR and perimeter defense. Ibaka's offense really started to tank when OKC got Adams which pushed his offense further away from the rim and he started shooting more 3's. JV has a little more range than Adams which means Ibaka should see more time closer to the basket.

I think this deal was good for both sides. I didn't understand the Magic making a move for Ibaka in the first place so trading him to a contender for assets and a pick makes a lot of sense for a rebuilding team. As you mentioned as well, Toronto is on the cusp of being an elite contender and with only one other legit contender in the East, it only takes an injury to the Cavs for them to make the Finals.

[AtheJ415]

Have a fun thought. Would really depend if we like Mudiay at all and if Denver considers Bledsoe a star.

Bledsoe and Tucker for Mudiay, Murray, and Hernangomez

Then we draft Josh Jackson.

Mudiay, Ulis
Bledsoe, Murray
Jackson, Warren
Chriss, Bender, Hernangomez
Len, Bender, Hernangomez

We'd have to throw in a 1st or one of Chirss/Bender to rip both Murray and Hernangomez. Drop one from the trade and it becomes a little more likely.

I disagree. Bledsoe is by far the best player in this trade. Hernangomez had a big game yesterday but he's not some prized player. He's a late first who hasn't played much this year.

Murray was a later pick than Bender and I am not sure he has more value than Chriss today.

To say Bledsoe couldn't net Murray and Hernangomez (that is, assuming the team is willing to trade to win now and doesn't want to wait on the future) is a bit much imo.

[bwgood77]

I respect the Raps for going all in and staring at the lux tax this summer. When you're that close you might as well try. Who knows maybe Cleveland suffers some injuries and you make a finals. The only thing I question is if you're going to take this approach why not poney up a a little more and get Paul Milsap instead? He's the superior player and while he's a little older than Serge I don't trust that Serge is really 27 so that cancels that out IMO.

I hope so, I'm in Toronto in early June so the only time I'll be able to catch a game is if they make the Finals lol

I think Ibaka over Millsap makes sense. He's the better defender of the two and with JV already being a good offensive player, I think he'll have more of an impact than Millsap. JV's minutes have been limited mainly because he's lacking on the defensive and Ibaka imo covers up a lot of his weaknesses especially on the PnR and perimeter defense. Ibaka's offense really started to tank when OKC got Adams which pushed his offense further away from the rim and he started shooting more 3's. JV has a little more range than Adams which means Ibaka should see more time closer to the basket.

I think this deal was good for both sides. I didn't understand the Magic making a move for Ibaka in the first place so trading him to a contender for assets and a pick makes a lot of sense for a rebuilding team. As you mentioned as well, Toronto is on the cusp of being an elite contender and with only one other legit contender in the East, it only takes an injury to the Cavs for them to make the Finals.

Ibaka should help a lot, but Toronto has not been playing well lately. They are also MUCH more effective with Noguiera. They really should start Ibaka and Noguiera and bring JV off the bench for offense.

The Wizards might ultimately end up being a tough out for the Raptors if they meet. The Wiz swept them two years ago, were banged up last year (and missed Pierce) and now have Porter who has turned into a stud, Kieff who has really turned it on as well as Beal who has stepped up his game. They have an extremely solid lineup. Even with Kieff I might pull for them in the east. I love Wall and Porter and like Beal as well. And Gortat of course.

[SC923]

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[carey]

To say Bledsoe couldn't net Murray and Hernangomez (that is, assuming the team is willing to trade to win now and doesn't want to wait on the future) is a bit much imo.

I forgot to add that you don't want 4 rookies from the same class all up for extensions at the same time unless you're acquiring them just to trade.

[carey]

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Thanks for posting, but... DUH. Any one of you fine gentleman could have posted that. I love what passes for journalism these days.

[Qwigglez]

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Figured this would be McD's final all-in push. Hard to negotiate a contract extension when the team you are managing has gotten worse every season you been there.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Is Kevin Love the only player to be traded during the McDonough era who was a top 20 player at the time?

[Zelaznyrules]

Figured this would be McD's final all-in push. Hard to negotiate a contract extension when the team you are managing has gotten worse every season you been there.

Are you trying to word that in such a way that allows you to ignore his first year because IIRC we went from 25 wins before him to 48 wins with him that season.

[AtheJ415]

To say Bledsoe couldn't net Murray and Hernangomez (that is, assuming the team is willing to trade to win now and doesn't want to wait on the future) is a bit much imo.

I forgot to add that you don't want 4 rookies from the same class all up for extensions at the same time unless you're acquiring them just to trade.

You pick the ones you want to keep and trade the ones you don't. Odds are a couple will bust. The numbers give you better odds. If all 4 develop then that is a good problem--you again pick the ones you believe in going forward and move any others. Utah is going to have to go through that very soon. The escalating cap is delaying that, but they will still get a good haul for whoever they end up trading of their extension candidates (all weren't from the same class, but are up for extensions in the same 2 year span.

[AtheJ415]

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Figured this would be McD's final all-in push. Hard to negotiate a contract extension when the team you are managing has gotten worse every season you been there.

Did you miss the remainder of the headline? I mean, every team in our position is saying the same thing, regardless of their GM.

[Qwigglez]

Figured this would be McD's final all-in push. Hard to negotiate a contract extension when the team you are managing has gotten worse every season you been there.

Are you trying to word that in such a way that allows you to ignore his first year because IIRC we went from 25 wins before him to 48 wins with him that season.

Yeah besides that year though.

[AtheJ415]

Is Kevin Love the only player to be traded during the McDonough era who was a top 20 player at the time?

Exactly, and the only one who even might remotely make sense for us is Cousins due to age and potential availability. The best course is doubling down, and I really hope we do that. Trade many of Tucker, Chandler, Barbosa, Knight, and even potentially Bledsoe for the right price. Get future picks. Secure a top 3 pick and draft one of Fultz, Ball, or Jackson. Use the FA period to sign guys who can fit our grouping and age bracket (someone 23-26 with no major knee injuries or else somebody older who can play late into their careers). Then use those future picks a couple years down the line to trade for a star when there is one available who fits our age bracket.

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Thanks for posting, but... DUH. Any one of you fine gentleman could have posted that. I love what passes for journalism these days.

Yea thats probably right... I was more looking to share his desire to make a "big" move and that other gms are surprised are name isn't more involved in trade talks. Indicates that its going to be lot more than for example, Tucker for a first rounder. I guess McD always has his eyes on a blockbuster but it seems like its people around the league believe its going to be accomplished.

[AtheJ415]

Making Booker and Warren go against Tucker daily in practice is worth more then a late 1st.

#14-#21 pick in the draft for PJ or you sign try to sign him as a free agent.

For a contender, it's worth it.

I disagree with you on this. I'd take a 1st rounder of any sort over having Tucker for two more months of practice. Frankly I believe the whole notion that vets are so important for teaching young guys a bit overplayed. Coaches coach and players play. Sure it's good to have some vets like Barbs on the back of your bench to show guys how to act like professionals and I do see some use in having a vet pg who can get you into your offense but that's about it. Remember when Chandler was supposed to be some great teacher for Len? Heck if anything he's stunted his growth by taking minutes from him. Is PJ helping TJ Warren be better? If so he's doing a **** job of it.

You mention 14-21 as the range you want and sure of course that would be nice but the problem is teams picking in that range are probably not the teams that think PJ would make a difference for a title run. Teams 21-30 might. Heck PJ's real value is probably an early 2nd rounder and I would take that... but the problem is the teams who will have early 2nds are bad teams who aren't trading for PJ.

I agree - the teams wanting PJ do not have early seconds unless they made other trades and usually like aChris Anderson deal, those picks are so protected, the good teams never get them.

I am at the point where I don't give a crap the return value - its clearing cap, acquiring some assets and moving this sucker forward. Chandler, Knight - just way too much money for the wins the team is getting out of them. Tucker, last year of deal, let him go win.

Ryan needs to go big - maybe not Hennigan style with the Ibaka deal but he has to start making moves that give him a bit more to work with this summer
And quite frankly, I am tired of draft picks - team needs to get older, not younger

Could not disagree more. What's the end game with adding more age? What we need is to get prepared for a window that makes sense. Draft picks are assets that we can use to add a vet star to this team when it actually makes sense to do it. Our quickest route to contention isn't through trades--it's through asset accumulation, free agency, and continuous development and good drafting. I think we have drafted well. I think we have accumulated assets well (regardless of the Knight trade). Development is still TBD. Free agency we have been close and by reports done well, but at some point we obviously have to win the wars there.

[lilfishi22]

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lol as opposed to having a firesale?

[Zelaznyrules]

I disagree with you on this. I'd take a 1st rounder of any sort over having Tucker for two more months of practice. Frankly I believe the whole notion that vets are so important for teaching young guys a bit overplayed. Coaches coach and players play. Sure it's good to have some vets like Barbs on the back of your bench to show guys how to act like professionals and I do see some use in having a vet pg who can get you into your offense but that's about it. Remember when Chandler was supposed to be some great teacher for Len? Heck if anything he's stunted his growth by taking minutes from him. Is PJ helping TJ Warren be better? If so he's doing a **** job of it.

You mention 14-21 as the range you want and sure of course that would be nice but the problem is teams picking in that range are probably not the teams that think PJ would make a difference for a title run. Teams 21-30 might. Heck PJ's real value is probably an early 2nd rounder and I would take that... but the problem is the teams who will have early 2nds are bad teams who aren't trading for PJ.

I agree - the teams wanting PJ do not have early seconds unless they made other trades and usually like aChris Anderson deal, those picks are so protected, the good teams never get them.

I am at the point where I don't give a crap the return value - its clearing cap, acquiring some assets and moving this sucker forward. Chandler, Knight - just way too much money for the wins the team is getting out of them. Tucker, last year of deal, let him go win.

Ryan needs to go big - maybe not Hennigan style with the Ibaka deal but he has to start making moves that give him a bit more to work with this summer
And quite frankly, I am tired of draft picks - team needs to get older, not younger

Could not disagree more. What's the end game with adding more age? What we need is to get prepared for a window that makes sense. Draft picks are assets that we can use to add a vet star to this team when it actually makes sense to do it. Our quickest route to contention isn't through trades--it's through asset accumulation, free agency, and continuous development and good drafting. I think we have drafted well. I think we have accumulated assets well (regardless of the Knight trade). Development is still TBD. Free agency we have been close and by reports done well, but at some point we obviously have to win the wars there.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, what's the end game for that approach? And this is coming from someone that really doesn't care all that much about the Suns winning a championship. I love watching my team play. I need to believe we are building towards the possibility of a championship but the actual title isn't going to change my life one bit. I'll enjoy it but I tend to enjoy just about every win. I want us to put together a team that entertains, brings in fans and positive media attention and has a chance to become a real winner. The rest of it tends to be just luck. But simply putting together enough pieces to be competitive without any real hope for playoff success along the way? No thanks.

[Fo-Real]

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Also Water is wet....... Fire is hot.... Fat meat is greasy...... and **** STINKS!!

[bwgood77]

I agree - the teams wanting PJ do not have early seconds unless they made other trades and usually like aChris Anderson deal, those picks are so protected, the good teams never get them.

I am at the point where I don't give a crap the return value - its clearing cap, acquiring some assets and moving this sucker forward. Chandler, Knight - just way too much money for the wins the team is getting out of them. Tucker, last year of deal, let him go win.

Ryan needs to go big - maybe not Hennigan style with the Ibaka deal but he has to start making moves that give him a bit more to work with this summer
And quite frankly, I am tired of draft picks - team needs to get older, not younger

Could not disagree more. What's the end game with adding more age? What we need is to get prepared for a window that makes sense. Draft picks are assets that we can use to add a vet star to this team when it actually makes sense to do it. Our quickest route to contention isn't through trades--it's through asset accumulation, free agency, and continuous development and good drafting. I think we have drafted well. I think we have accumulated assets well (regardless of the Knight trade). Development is still TBD. Free agency we have been close and by reports done well, but at some point we obviously have to win the wars there.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, what's the end game for that approach? And this is coming from someone that really doesn't care all that much about the Suns winning a championship. I love watching my team play. I need to believe we are building towards the possibility of a championship but the actual title isn't going to change my life one bit. I'll enjoy it but I tend to enjoy just about every win. I want us to put together a team that entertains, brings in fans and positive media attention and has a chance to become a real winner. The rest of it tends to be just luck. But simply putting together enough pieces to be competitive without any real hope for playoff success along the way? No thanks.

Yes, just having a team that I feel has some sort of chance at the title, even if it's not certain, or even just getting to the second round and having great battles, etc....this is what makes it fun.

Titles are unrealistic. We will probably never see them. If every team had an equal chance at a title, you would on avg win one about every 30 years. Right now we have juggernauts, and the bad thing is, the Warriors are young.

But realistically the same 3-5 teams will dominate championships over a 10 year period. So can we get into that top 3-5 teams? Tough. If we can even get into the next tier, I'm happy. Yes, it's easy to agree with "We need to make every move to make sure we win the title" and such statements, but it's unrealistic. It takes a TON of luck and a ton of great management, coaching, etc. We have none of that currently. BUT, we have a rookie GM and coach and a very young team. So there is a lot more hope for me now than Blanks, Babby, Hunter, Beasley, Brown, Scola, Gortat, etc.

Trading a boatload for Cousins (who likely signs his $200M deal with the Kings this summer anyway) or Butler only sets us back long term...it might help a tad to get us a 6-8 seed and get destroyed first round. What's the point, and our future and assets are gone.

Sarver has been shortsighted ever since he bought the team. This would be the absolute WORST time to be shortsighted.