Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5

[BobbieL]

Kemba is a nice player and a pg we might want. But trading for him right now is premature. We need to get to the draft this summer first. After that we figure out if we need a player like Kemba.

Here is the reason. You collect your top stars first. Kemba is at best a 3rd player on a contender. He is probably just a starter on a contender. Right now he is the best player on a really bad team.

So, get to the draft this summer. Find out if we are drafting a big or a pg. Then add a player like Kemba later depending on fit.

I would be more inclined to trade for Walker in the summer - AFTER the team has earned whatever draft pick it earns. The Suns are too close now - and this sounds bad - to a top 7 pick that they will earn without tanking. This Suns pick could easily be top 5 based on record - who knows how the ping pong balls will shake out but without the Celtics AND Lakers both needing ping pong balls (right now, the pick goes to Celtics - if they get Ayton or Bagley!!!) - - that might make for a more normal lottery this year.

Plus Kemba might cost a lot in terms of picks. I think be patient - keep getting your cap in order for the summer, maybe use Chandler, Monroe, Daniels to get a another draft pick. And this summer, be ready to deal when you have that last pick on your roster.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Now I admit this idea is more than a little far-fetched. Seems CLE won't give up the Nets pick for Deandre, nor would they give it up for George Hill. But maybe they'd do it for both?

The idea is to use PHX as a means for splitting up the value of the BKN pick between LAC and SAC. Maybe the way I'm doing it isn't quite right, but I don't think the value is very far off. I'll throw two variations out there. Obviously, complicated trades are always unlikely.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yb9nno58
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9m5x8tu

CLE out: Tristan Thompson, JR Smith, Channing Frye, BKN '18, CLE '18
CLE in: Deandre Jordan, George Hill, MEM '18 2d (from PHX)

SAC out: George Hill
SAC in: JR Smith, Channing Frye, CLE '18, TOR '18 2d (from PHX)

Variation 1
LAC out: Deandre Jordan, Patrick Beverley
LAC in: Greg Monroe, MIL 1st, PHX '18 2d, PHX '19 2d

PHX out: Greg Monroe, MIL 1st, MEM '18 2d, TOR '18 2d, PHX '18 2d, PHX '19 2d
PHX in: Tristan Thompson, Patrick Beverley, BKN '18

Variation 2 (preferred)
LAC out: Deandre Jordan
LAC in: Tristan Thompson, MIL 1st, MIA '18, PHX '18 2d

PHX out: MIL 1st, MIA '18, PHX '18 2d, MEM '18 2d, TOR '18 2d
PHX in: BKN 1st

[RaisingArizona]

Yet he's a far better player than Bledsoe or Knight, and I have the feeling he has some potential to get even better if surrounded by better talent.

He's better than Knight, but he's not better than Bledsoe. Kemba is also exactly the type of player the Suns fans hate: mediocre assist rate, pounds the air out of the ball and shoots a lot of pull-up jumpers with mediocre efficiency.

Why advanced stats are misleading...

[Frank Lee]

Seems like just trying to get some value from Monroe is counterproductive. Cap space is good to have, not just for FAs but for future trades. McD likes options. Walking into next yr with a top 5-7 rookie , perhaps a late round PG, BKnight returning, and cap space is by far the least risky pathway, and very economical. It only a matter of time before Sarver has to sign off on a 125 mill+ deal or two... any doubts he'd like to delay it one more year? Also, with Chandler, any rookie Big should benefit from his last year here. I fully expect Len to be gone and a rotation of Williams, Chandler and ? to man the post.

We are going to be a better team without really making a splashy deal. A good draft, returning Williams and Knight, and continued improvement from Bender, Chris, and Jackson should be enough to end this playoff drought. Might as well keep Triano too. Providing a sense of stability in the coaching ranks will go a long way with these kids, IMO.

And you know me... Im all about the 'Kids"

[Kerrsed]

Seems like just trying to get some value from Monroe is counterproductive. Cap space is good to have, not just for FAs but for future trades. McD likes options. Walking into next yr with a top 5-7 rookie , perhaps a late round PG, BKnight returning, and cap space is by far the least risky pathway, and very economical. It only a matter of time before Sarver has to sign off on a 125 mill+ deal or two... any doubts he'd like to delay it one more year? Also, with Chandler, any rookie Big should benefit from his last year here. I fully expect Len to be gone and a rotation of Williams, Chandler and ? to man the post.

We are going to be a better team without really making a splashy deal. A good draft, returning Williams and Knight, and continued improvement from Bender, Chris, and Jackson should be enough to end this playoff drought. Might as well keep Triano too. Providing a sense of stability in the coaching ranks will go a long way with these kids, IMO.

And you know me... Im all about the 'Kids"

Spoiler:

[BobbieL]

Now I admit this idea is more than a little far-fetched. Seems CLE won't give up the Nets pick for Deandre, nor would they give it up for George Hill. But maybe they'd do it for both?

The idea is to use PHX as a means for splitting up the value of the BKN pick between LAC and SAC. Maybe the way I'm doing it isn't quite right, but I don't think the value is very far off. I'll throw two variations out there. Obviously, complicated trades are always unlikely.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yb9nno58
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9m5x8tu

CLE out: Tristan Thompson, JR Smith, Channing Frye, BKN '18, CLE '18
CLE in: Deandre Jordan, George Hill, MEM '18 2d (from PHX)

SAC out: George Hill
SAC in: JR Smith, Channing Frye, CLE '18, TOR '18 2d (from PHX)

Variation 1
LAC out: Deandre Jordan, Patrick Beverley
LAC in: Greg Monroe, MIL 1st, PHX '18 2d, PHX '19 2d

PHX out: Greg Monroe, MIL 1st, MEM '18 2d, TOR '18 2d, PHX '18 2d, PHX '19 2d
PHX in: Tristan Thompson, Patrick Beverley, BKN '18

Variation 2 (preferred)
LAC out: Deandre Jordan
LAC in: Tristan Thompson, MIL 1st, MIA '18, PHX '18 2d

PHX out: MIL 1st, MIA '18, PHX '18 2d, MEM '18 2d, TOR '18 2d
PHX in: BKN 1st

I can see where you are going with this and I think that is how the Suns will be involved with a trade. Using that Monroe deal to help facilitate something to get back a draft pick. I am not sure Cleveland is giving up that Brooklyn pick (Pelton pointed out they could use that pick for Kemba - but in your example - they actually get both players).

From the Suns stand point - they are giving up the Miami pick to move up to the top 10 with the Nets = plus some of those second rounders.

With the Kings wanting to move Hill; with their reports of the Bucks and Cavs wanting Jordan - I still envision trades that involve Chandler to Cleveland, Milwaukee or possibly Minnesota.

Just hard to find deals where the Suns don't take back too much long term cash if dealing with the Bucks or Cavs. With the Bucks - if they fail on Jordan, maybe that pick with Bledsoe loses protection/ With the Cavs their late for Shump/Frye

[BobbieL]

Seems like just trying to get some value from Monroe is counterproductive. Cap space is good to have, not just for FAs but for future trades. McD likes options. Walking into next yr with a top 5-7 rookie , perhaps a late round PG, BKnight returning, and cap space is by far the least risky pathway, and very economical. It only a matter of time before Sarver has to sign off on a 125 mill+ deal or two... any doubts he'd like to delay it one more year? Also, with Chandler, any rookie Big should benefit from his last year here. I fully expect Len to be gone and a rotation of Williams, Chandler and ? to man the post.

We are going to be a better team without really making a splashy deal. A good draft, returning Williams and Knight, and continued improvement from Bender, Chris, and Jackson should be enough to end this playoff drought. Might as well keep Triano too. Providing a sense of stability in the coaching ranks will go a long way with these kids, IMO.

And you know me... Im all about the 'Kids"

I would be okay with just taking Monroes cap space and having it for 2018/19 - not trading for Hill. I do think now is the time to move Chandler though - possibly get some cap space for this summer back - even if its a few million bucks. Granted, if kept, a young big would be helped by him.

Knight is an X factor - have to see what he has to bring.

[darealjuice]

I'd like to think Knight can come back and not be absolutely terrible, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Outside of a few games the dude's been plain bad since he put on a Suns jersey, and it's tough to picture an ACL tear in the off season being the thing that brings him back to Milwuakee-level (where he really wasn't even that good either).

[jredsaz]

No big time FA star is going to come to Phoenix because we draft Trae Young or Donic this year. If we drafted one of these guys, they played 3 years at a high level and showed a lot of promise, then maybe a star would take notice and sign with the Suns.

tl; dr; NBA stars don't fap over top draft picks like fans do.

The amount of draftpick fapping is out of control here. The poll question is basically do you want to be good next year or not. And overwhelmingly no, "fans" don't.

Have to disagree. Young or Doncic would make this team better and the money freed up from not having Walker could go to a rim protector.

The problem with the question is that even without trading for Kemba there is no guarantee that either Doncic or Young will be available to the Suns to draft.

[bwgood77]

I'm low-key excited to see what Knight is capable of doing with a more efficient Booker, and an improved Warren, Chriss, Bender, and Jackson. I remember last year Knight made some really good passes to Chriss. I'm hoping he's going to have a bounce back year similar to when Frye came back to us in 13-14 season. I know most fans aren't very high on Knight right now, but he could easily be a missing piece for our future if he comes back and starts posting similar numbers to when he was a starter in the league.

Watch on YouTube

Going over one of his better highlight games, he shows the ability to get back on defense and make a good block on Draymond, make good passes to cutting players (PJ Tucker 56 seconds into the video). One thing he needs to work on however is to just catch and shoot when he's open, in the very next clip he had a pretty open 3, though the pass was a little low, he did make the shot after holding the ball for a couple of seconds, but still, it ruins the rhythm of the offense holding the ball like that IMO.

Anyway, I think with JT as coach, it may help Knight not take those long two's and just cut down on a lot of his bad habits. His ability to spread the floor will be huge for this upcoming season. If we trade him now, it may cost us a pick or something silly, so I'd prefer to just keep him and see what he can do.

What is everyone's thoughts on Knight? Can he come back and be an asset to the team?

Knight's worst habit for me, even worse than long 2s with a foot on the line, is over dribbling and going into traffic with no plan and then getting flustered and turning it over.

One of the things that has impressed me the most with Triano is the increase in ball movement. We were SO BAD at this for SO LONG, mostly because Knight and Bledsoe played that way, and then others became used to watching. Booker played that way more, but it was more ok with him given his scoring prowess. But even he has really moved the ball and it really injects life into the whole team.

IF Knight can buy into this and work in practice on not taking steps with the ball and either immediately shooting or passing, then it would be good. He'd be fine imo without the dribbling because it would cut down the dumb turnovers, keep others involved, and cut down on the long 2s and bad shots, because most of those shots would come after a lot of dribbling.

I mean look how bad Knight and Bledsoe were after 6 or 7 seconds or dribbles in gaspar's chart above....like sub 30% or something around there shooting. You can't win games playing like that.

[hollywood6964]

Seems like just trying to get some value from Monroe is counterproductive. Cap space is good to have, not just for FAs but for future trades. McD likes options. Walking into next yr with a top 5-7 rookie , perhaps a late round PG, BKnight returning, and cap space is by far the least risky pathway, and very economical. It only a matter of time before Sarver has to sign off on a 125 mill+ deal or two... any doubts he'd like to delay it one more year? Also, with Chandler, any rookie Big should benefit from his last year here. I fully expect Len to be gone and a rotation of Williams, Chandler and ? to man the post.

We are going to be a better team without really making a splashy deal. A good draft, returning Williams and Knight, and continued improvement from Bender, Chris, and Jackson should be enough to end this playoff drought. Might as well keep Triano too. Providing a sense of stability in the coaching ranks will go a long way with these kids, IMO.

And you know me... Im all about the 'Kids"

Spoiler:

Exactly What i was thinking

[WeekapaugGroove]

Kemba is a nice player and a pg we might want. But trading for him right now is premature. We need to get to the draft this summer first. After that we figure out if we need a player like Kemba.

Here is the reason. You collect your top stars first. Kemba is at best a 3rd player on a contender. He is probably just a starter on a contender. Right now he is the best player on a really bad team.

So, get to the draft this summer. Find out if we are drafting a big or a pg. Then add a player like Kemba later depending on fit.

I would be more inclined to trade for Walker in the summer - AFTER the team has earned whatever draft pick it earns. The Suns are too close now - and this sounds bad - to a top 7 pick that they will earn without tanking. This Suns pick could easily be top 5 based on record - who knows how the ping pong balls will shake out but without the Celtics AND Lakers both needing ping pong balls (right now, the pick goes to Celtics - if they get Ayton or Bagley!!!) - - that might make for a more normal lottery this year.

Plus Kemba might cost a lot in terms of picks. I think be patient - keep getting your cap in order for the summer, maybe use Chandler, Monroe, Daniels to get a another draft pick. And this summer, be ready to deal when you have that last pick on your roster.

Yeah it's the ideal scenario to wait until the summer to make this move for multiple reasons. That way they know where they are falling in the draft.

Now the obvious risk is the hornets find another deal before the suns make the move. But it's a risk I would be willing to take.

[jcsunsfan]

Kemba is a nice player and a pg we might want. But trading for him right now is premature. We need to get to the draft this summer first. After that we figure out if we need a player like Kemba.

Here is the reason. You collect your top stars first. Kemba is at best a 3rd player on a contender. He is probably just a starter on a contender. Right now he is the best player on a really bad team.

So, get to the draft this summer. Find out if we are drafting a big or a pg. Then add a player like Kemba later depending on fit.

I would be more inclined to trade for Walker in the summer - AFTER the team has earned whatever draft pick it earns. The Suns are too close now - and this sounds bad - to a top 7 pick that they will earn without tanking. This Suns pick could easily be top 5 based on record - who knows how the ping pong balls will shake out but without the Celtics AND Lakers both needing ping pong balls (right now, the pick goes to Celtics - if they get Ayton or Bagley!!!) - - that might make for a more normal lottery this year.

Plus Kemba might cost a lot in terms of picks. I think be patient - keep getting your cap in order for the summer, maybe use Chandler, Monroe, Daniels to get a another draft pick. And this summer, be ready to deal when you have that last pick on your roster.

Yeah it's the ideal scenario to wait until the summer to make this move for multiple reasons. That way they know where they are falling in the draft.

Now the obvious risk is the hornets find another deal before the suns make the move. But it's a risk I would be willing to take.

Its not like Kemba is the type of pg that is rarely available. He is a good player, but if we miss on him, there will be others. Better to be patient right now. We have been patiently been building through the draft. We have the 2018 draft to complete that process. Then we can trade or sign to our hearts content in July and in 2019.

[jcsunsfan]

PER is an interesting rating. Its not conclusive but helpful. Among NBA pgs, Kemba ranks 7 (behind Harden, Curry, Paul, Westbrook, Irving and Lillard). That is pretty good.

BTW. Booker ranks 7 among SGs (behind Oladipo, Butler, DeRozen, Lou Williams, Tyreke, Beal)

But TJ Warren ranks 4 among SF's (behind LeBron, KD, Beasely (yes), and ahead of PG, Gay, Harris, OPorter, Barnes, Tatum, etc)

I am not sure we really appreciate the player we have in TJ. His stats are fantastic. His PER is good, and his impact on team wins is undeniable. If he does add a 3 point shot, he is a SF that is right there with LeBron, KD, and Kawhai.

[hollywood6964]

Jeez some of these trash-ass offers that i have seen. Not really talking about here, but you know its bad when i have to put a poster in his place on another teams forum. CRIKEY!

Like look at this offer from an unnamed Bulls poster:

Bulls fan coming with a respectable offer what do you think?
Khris Dunn Robin Lopez Christiano Felicio
For
Kemba walker Dwight Howard cha 1st 18 right to pick swap 19

After being told there was ZERO chance the Hornets would ever consider that (As they shouldnt), he responds with:

You would have to give me a couple names because when I look around the league all of the young prospects that have been productive are untouchable. Dunn is probably one of the few under right conditions.

Chris Dunn Robin Lopez Christiano Felicio 20 unprotected 2 2nds
For
Kemba walker Dwight Howard cha 1st 18 right to pick swap 19

After being told that the Hornets wouldnt be giving up a pick in that trade (And me informing him that the Hornets arnt even saving salary because Howard is owed $46M over the next two season while Lopez/Felicio is owed $46M over the nest two seasons, along with and extra $16M to cover the additional 2 years of Felicio), he responds once again with:

I mean honestly no bias sthe only people on your team who I believe are on good 2nd contract as of the moment or Lamb Walker Howard to a lower extent? Who on your team is actually worth their 2nd contract? Besides who I just mentioned. Your team has a lot of bad contracts. And if you think you’re not going to have to give up pic swaps or first round picks to get off of them you’re very wrong

Dunn Robin Lopez Christiano Felicio 2020 unprotected 2 2nds
For
Kemba walker Dwight Howard cha 1st 18 right to pick swap 19

PEOPLE! I hope to god none of you guys offer trades like that on other teams boards!

Some bozos will. We have just as many blind homers here as well.

[hollywood6964]

PER is an interesting rating. Its not conclusive but helpful. Among NBA pgs, Kemba ranks 7 (behind Harden, Curry, Paul, Westbrook, Irving and Lillard). That is pretty good.

BTW. Booker ranks 7 among SGs (behind Oladipo, Butler, DeRozen, Lou Williams, Tyreke, Beal)

But TJ Warren ranks 4 among SF's (behind LeBron, KD, Beasely (yes), and ahead of PG, Gay, Harris, OPorter, Barnes, Tatum, etc)

I am not sure we really appreciate the player we have in TJ. His stats are fantastic. His PER is good, and his impact on team wins is undeniable. If he does add a 3 point shot, he is a SF that is right there with LeBron, KD, and Kawhai.

Haha, he doesn't have the tools to be a kd, lb, or kl. You did not, just say that....

I guess that's exhibit A.....

[TOO]

PER is an interesting rating. Its not conclusive but helpful. Among NBA pgs, Kemba ranks 7 (behind Harden, Curry, Paul, Westbrook, Irving and Lillard). That is pretty good.

BTW. Booker ranks 7 among SGs (behind Oladipo, Butler, DeRozen, Lou Williams, Tyreke, Beal)

But TJ Warren ranks 4 among SF's (behind LeBron, KD, Beasely (yes), and ahead of PG, Gay, Harris, OPorter, Barnes, Tatum, etc)

I am not sure we really appreciate the player we have in TJ. His stats are fantastic. His PER is good, and his impact on team wins is undeniable. If he does add a 3 point shot, he is a SF that is right there with LeBron, KD, and Kawhai.

Oh dear.

[darealjuice]

I like TJ, but it's going to take a lot more than a 3 pointer for him to even approach Lebron, KD, and Kawhi levels...

[TOO]

I like TJ, but it's going to take a lot more than a 3 pointer for him to even approach Lebron, KD, and Kawhi levels...

Yeah, like a handle, passing, and some defense. All that stuff that PER doesn't measure.

[hollywood6964]

I like TJ, but it's going to take a lot more than a 3 pointer for him to even approach Lebron, KD, and Kawhi levels...

I mean he didn't just go to jimmy butler level, he went straight to the top. Lebron james, arguably the best player of all time (taking away the mystique of Michael Jordan, and how they replaced him with pete fn myers at 2 guard n STILL nearly made the finals after he retired).

I have to say, so ridiculous about Jordan n revisionist history. They didn't replace him with mitch richmond, or even Reggie miller, and just miss the finals, n then he comes back the next year n they take it(even then they got bounced by orlando, they needed Rodman). No, no, no- pete meyers, n they JUST miss out. Even dan majerle n they have a shot at another title without mj....n where does that leave mj in the history of basketball? Not at #1......at the very least, not in the eyes of the blind public.