2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation

[bwgood77]

Clips boat racing the Blazers like the Blazers boat raced us

Yeah, largely on the back of Kennard's big game and shooting. Well, and George's 8 steals.

[spanishninja]

Clips boat racing the Blazers like the Blazers boat raced us

Yeah, largely on the back of Kennard's big game and shooting. Well, and George's 8 steals.

goddamn just looked at the box. 21 steals by the clips in all? wow

[Puff]

His career averages are 16ppg, 10.6 rpg with a 59% FG% and over a 61% TS%. This includes his rookie year where he was a raw 1 year college guy.

He has improved tremendously in many areas, particularly in areas that don't show up in the traditional box score stats bigfoot goes by, but things like contesting shots (top 10 in contested 2s and 3s last year in entire NBA which shows his great switching ability to perimeter), top 5 in screen assists getting open shots for Book and Paul, 1 on 1 defense, help defense, boxing out, etc.

So a guy who averages over 16 ppg as a rookie and over 18 ppg as a 2nd year guy who's shots drop substantially last year because we add a major NBA offensive weapon, means he suddenly declined? People seem lower on him now than before, when he was just putting up 18 and 12 on worse efficiency and couldn't defend or do the little things nearly as well. I know people like the PPG but actual impact on lineups and wins and losses matters more to me and likely to the team which is why they didn't focus on his offense last year but more his defense. With a guy like Rubio he will score over 18 as more of a top option, but also a guy the D can focus a little more on since Rubio doesn't shoot well, but with Paul he drops from 2nd to more of a 3rd option last year along with Bridges.

The whole team has gotten off to a bad start so far.

I agree the team looks bad. I have been an Ayton fan and defended him consistently but he hasn't been a max player. He coasts through way too many games way too many nights to get a super max imo.

I don't think he's a max player yet either. Whether or not he can get there I don't know. Likely not this season but I think within a couple of years when he begins to get closer to his prime I think there is a chance, but who knows about any player for sure.

Finally some sanity in regards to Ayton. No one want to see him fail. We also do not want our hands tied to a max contract until he earns one.

Why don't we give Stix Nader''s minutes?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Why don't we give Stix Nader''s minutes?

Stix has looked pretty good in limited time. I agree that he may have earned a few rotation minutes. The big thing with him so far has been a lack of mistakes, which is key for a young player on a good team. Though my guess is Monty will wait to pull the trigger until an injury clear the way.

As much praise as McGee was getting for his play in the Blazers game thread, I thought he was a net neutral or negative. Turnovers, blown layups, getting beat in the P&R. Smith may end up getting some of Javale's minutes, too.

[bigfoot]

I agree the team looks bad. I have been an Ayton fan and defended him consistently but he hasn't been a max player. He coasts through way too many games way too many nights to get a super max imo.

I don't think he's a max player yet either. Whether or not he can get there I don't know. Likely not this season but I think within a couple of years when he begins to get closer to his prime I think there is a chance, but who knows about any player for sure.

Finally some sanity in regards to Ayton. No one want to see him fail. We also do not want our hands tied to a max contract until he earns one.

Why don't we give Stix Nader''s minutes?

Yep ... I'm critical of Ayton because he was the #1 pick and he does have potential. As of yet, he has not sustained max contract level of play for an extended period of time. Let's hope he can pull it together soon.

[bwgood77]

Why don't we give Stix Nader''s minutes?

Stix has looked pretty good in limited time. I agree that he may have earned a few rotation minutes. The big thing with him so far has been a lack of mistakes, which is key for a young player on a good team. Though my guess is Monty will wait to pull the trigger until an injury clear the way.

As much praise as McGee was getting for his play in the Blazers game thread, I thought he was a net neutral or negative. Turnovers, blown layups, getting beat in the P&R. Smith may end up getting some of Javale's minutes, too.

Ultimately I'd give Nader's minutes to a combination of Bridges, Cam and Crowder, particularly if we are having problems winning, or even keeping games close, especially mostly due to long range shooting by the opposition. If we are winning big I'd give Stix minutes, or if a team played small ball with 2nd unit or if Ayton was in foul trouble.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Why don't we give Stix Nader''s minutes?

Stix has looked pretty good in limited time. I agree that he may have earned a few rotation minutes. The big thing with him so far has been a lack of mistakes, which is key for a young player on a good team. Though my guess is Monty will wait to pull the trigger until an injury clear the way.

As much praise as McGee was getting for his play in the Blazers game thread, I thought he was a net neutral or negative. Turnovers, blown layups, getting beat in the P&R. Smith may end up getting some of Javale's minutes, too.

Ultimately I'd give Nader's minutes to a combination of Bridges, Cam and Crowder, particularly if we are having problems winning, or even keeping games close, especially mostly due to long range shooting by the opposition. If we are winning big I'd give Stix minutes, or if a team played small ball with 2nd unit or if Ayton was in foul trouble.

Yeah, the problem with playing Smith at the 4 right now is that he hasn't shown the ability to hit that 3 in a regular season game. If he gets that down he can play. Right now I like him more at the 5, but McGee is the better option overall. FWIW, I'd put Stix ahead of Hutchison in the rotation.

[bwgood77]

I don't think he's a max player yet either. Whether or not he can get there I don't know. Likely not this season but I think within a couple of years when he begins to get closer to his prime I think there is a chance, but who knows about any player for sure.

Finally some sanity in regards to Ayton. No one want to see him fail. We also do not want our hands tied to a max contract until he earns one.

Why don't we give Stix Nader''s minutes?

Yep ... I'm critical of Ayton because he was the #1 pick and he does have potential. As of yet, he has not sustained max contract level of play for an extended period of time. Let's hope he can pull it together soon.

Lets face it. True max players (or who should be true max players are rare. I get that the negotiations started there and he claimed to let his agents deal with it. Whether it was him personally who told them to not accept less than the max we really don't know. He did say he wanted the respect and was disappointed a deal did not get done.

I do hope he looks at some box scores...like Robert Williams last night for example. But then again, Capela had a box score last night people would go crazy about if it was Ayton and they won, even though is %s usually hold up well.

It's a little weird for him to start a little slower....just look at his game log as a rookie...although he likely just focused on scoring and rebounding because he surely wasn't defending which requires more energy than anything else..staying engaged the whole possession on the other side, and going after rebounding instead of boxing out.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aytonde01/gamelog/2019

Last year you can see his scoring dropped through his first give games, likely some due to COVID and no training camp, etc, the addition of Chris Paul, etc....though is rebounding again was fairly strong. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aytonde01/gamelog/2021

Still, so few games with 1 back to back early when no one except Bridges seems to be really in game shape to play a lot of minutes so I think it's too premature to judge too much.

Few C's get maxes though, and some are overpaid like Gobert. Most after their rookie scale are between $17.5 and $25 or so (especially if you count a bigger guy like Collins, and they naturally go up each year). None really have his skills as a defensive switch guy so I don't know how many teams value that but it sure is valuable during the playoffs not being played off the floor, and his offensive presence/gravity and screening for our scorers is greater than most Cs who are paid in the high teens/low 20s as well as the switching.

[garrick]

This reminds of of the Tristan Thompson contract negotiations with the Cavs, the Cavs didn't want to overpay so Rich Paul played hardball until they got the contract they wanted.

There are plenty of similarities in the type of player as Thompson was a highly mobile big that could move his feet on the perimeter although the stats still show that Ayton is a superior player compared to TT.


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2510999-tristan-thompson-latest-contract-news-rumors-speculation-on-forwards-future

[Crives]

So no ESPN story huh?

[LV-Suns]

So no ESPN story huh?

I lost any hope of this being a thing when I saw Earl Watson and McD involved. Those 2 will do anything to stay in the limelight.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I had to share this video edit of Mikal Bridges because it's just really cool!

RidiculousCage (@ridiculouscage) Tweeted:
updated the shooting stars video with @mikal_bridges https://t.co/PgavbbyhOn

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[Ghost of Kleine]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nba/news/robert-sarver-suns-owner-background/3wkegac1cbw71vqtuvnf0z5jk#scso=_vj54YcHMM4PK7gLSjKzwCA26:0

Who is Robert Sarver? Background and history of Suns majority owner

WRITTEN BY
GILBERT MCGREGOR

Who is Robert Sarver? Here is everything to know about the Suns' longtime owner.

Who is Robert Sarver? Background, history of Suns ownerBackground

Sarver, who was born in Tuscon, Ariz., is the son of Jack Sarver, who was a prominent businessman in the area.

At 21, Robert Sarver graduated from the University of Arizona in 1982 and became a certified public accountant in 1983.

According to a 2005 profile on Sarver in the Tuscon Citizen, he founded the National Bank of Tuscon in 1984 at the age of 23, selling the bank to Zions Bancorporation in 1994. He would later become chairman, president and CEO of Western Alliance Bancorporation in 2003.

Suns ownership

Sarver's interest in owning the Suns stems from a lifelong interest in sports and his connections with the University of Arizona. The late Lute Olson, who coached at Arizona for 25 seasons, was a good friend of Sarver's and, upon discovering Sarver's interest in ownership, connected the businessman with Steve Kerr.

In April of 2004, Sarver purchased the Suns from Jerry Colangelo for $401 million, which, at the time was an NBA record.

Just months into Sarver's tenure as the franchise's owner, the Suns signed free agent Steve Nash, marking the beginning of a successful string of years. Sarver also promoted Kerr to the team's general manager position in 2007.

Despite successful seasons, Phoenix has been unable to get over the championship hump under Sarver's ownership, as young talent has gone elsewhere due to stalls in contract negotiations, circumstances similar to the current situation of Ayton.

In addition to the Suns, Sarver is the owner of the WNBA's Phoenix Mercury, who have won titles in 2007, 2009 and 2014.

Other ventures

Outside of basketball, Sarver owns soccer club Real Club Deportivo Mallorca, S.A.D. of Spain's La Liga.

Sarver remains a principal owner of San Diego-based real estate investment firm Southwest Value Partners, which he co-founded in 1990, according to Forbes.

Net worth

According to Yahoo Finance, Sarver's net worth as of October 2020 is $400 million.

The Suns were valued at $1.8 billion in Forbes' most recent valuation of NBA franchises, published in October 2021.

Just a brief review on Savers' background history for anyone not too familiar with him. Sans his really poor behavioral tendencies and poor business decisions resulting in the dismantling of our championship core.

[Nando88]

Where's that Flex guy saying the Sarver story is dropping today? Lol. I mean Mr. "After the fact"

[bwgood77]

So no ESPN story huh?

I lost any hope of this being a thing when I saw Earl Watson and McD involved. Those 2 will do anything to stay in the limelight.

Why today? Because Flex said so? Today isn't over.

But if this story was supposed to run at the end of the regular season then it got held up for some reason. Perhaps legal reasons, ESPN scared of making false allegations and lawsuit or maybe our playoff run (but in the latter case it seems it would have run in the offseason).

Sarver and company just had to release statements because of Jordan Schultz.

That could be another reason ESPN is waiting because they want it to be a BIG story and to release it right after the Schultz tweet it would have prepared people for it...same goes for the team's statements and rebuttals.

A few weeks from now it could likely have more impact as people think it might have gone away and/or forgotten about the Schultz tweet.

[bwgood77]

Where's that Flex guy saying the Sarver story is dropping today? Lol. I mean Mr. "After the fact"

Tweet later incoming "It got postponed due to reasons I cannot say, but it may come within the next few weeks."

[cberry78]

Where's that Flex guy saying the Sarver story is dropping today? Lol. I mean Mr. "After the fact"

I think you mean Mr. "My sources are definitely not the RealGM Suns forum"

Spoiler:

Not to be confused with:

[Ghost of Kleine]

Kellan Olson (@KellanOlson) Tweeted:
Cam Payne’s right hamstring strain will be reevaluated in a week, per Suns

Read on Twitter

?s=20

So then are we to expect Payne to be out a little beyond a week then?

[bigfoot]

None really have his skills as a defensive switch guy so I don't know how many teams value that but it sure is valuable during the playoffs not being played off the floor, and his offensive presence/gravity and screening for our scorers is greater than most Cs who are paid in the high teens/low 20s as well as the switching.

My thoughts are this switching ability is the biggest risk for justifying paying him the max. It requires that he be in stellar shape in order to move laterally with small guards. DA has already shown he can be out of shape at the beginning of multiple seasons. As you age, you naturally gain weight or it is certainly harder to lose, especially as he adds muscle. The smallest knee injury could cause a permanent loss of this high-quality switching ability.

I do agree his gravity on offense helps and his screening is overlooked. Of course, both of those get diminished when he is not engaged. That's really the bigger issue. He's like a high-performance sports car that's just out of tune more often than you'd like.

[darealjuice]

I think part of the issue with Ayton is that his weakness of staying consistently engaged is also the biggest key to his success in his current role as a defensive anchor, screener, and finisher around the rim. Centers are responsible for getting themselves involved on offense unless they're Embiid, Jokic, Bam, Giannis, etc. that have strong scoring, ball handling, playmaking, and/or shooting. Ayton's improvement on defense has been clear, but he really hasn't shown much skill development on offense since coming into the league, which can be frustrating for those who expected Ayton to be the Suns first dominant center rather than our Gobert. Maybe he'll get there, though it'll take time.