2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV

[wheezy]

I just don't think the Warriors offer was good enough. Trading for Butler and then letting him eat up our cap space is a huge risk.

KD and Booker seemed fine until we traded for Beal. That was the mistake that set this team back significantly.

I just hope Beal keeps balling and we find a suitor this summer. Not interested in giving up on KD so quickly because the grass is not greener.

KD and Book both looked annoyed at CP3 and Ayton before the Beal trade happened. They just seem like they don't like playing with anyone on the team now... which is a great position to be in.

Booker is the common denominator.

He and KD are dictating the system, moves, roles... the Suns system literally has not changed much between Monty, Vogel and Bud under the Booker KD era...

It's not the coach.

I think KD is the common denominator. He did it in BK too (how many coaches in how many years?).

[bwgood77]

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From earlier today! They make a pretty good but also obvious point. But how truly bad must our front office be if this is the consensus opinion of the entire league.

How are we good at talent acquisition? By trading one of the most massive hauls in history for 34 year old KD? They have made what look like decent fringe moves getting Royce, Jones, Morris, etc. I don't really think the Ayton/Camara for Nurkic/Allen was a great trade. I understand why they wanted to get off of Ayton, but still don't think it was good.

I don't really view Martin, Richards, or any of these other moves as great talent acquisitions.

I'm really glad we passed on Luka to draft Ayton... only to trade him eventually (+ Toumani and another frp) for Grayson Allen....

It'll be really interesting to hear what Nurk has to say about the suns locker room. Doesn't really seem like he was the issue so much as he (probably) loudly had an issue.

I would really like to know too. I used to get the feeling people don't like playing with KD, and you know he's gone onto social media and complained about his OKC teammates pretending to be a fan "What's KD gonna do playing with those cats" and then he did to reporters about his Brooklyn teammates. There is probably some unwritten rule about what happens in locker rooms stays in locker rooms but I'd really like to know. Espo was asking Legler in an interview I watched on youtube about how someone described our locker room is toxic and asked if he was ever in a toxic locker room in the NBA and if once you are, if it ever gets better, and Legler said "no".

[bwgood77]

KD and Book both looked annoyed at CP3 and Ayton before the Beal trade happened. They just seem like they don't like playing with anyone on the team now... which is a great position to be in.

Booker is the common denominator.

He and KD are dictating the system, moves, roles... the Suns system literally has not changed much between Monty, Vogel and Bud under the Booker KD era...

It's not the coach.

I think KD is the common denominator. He did it in BK too (how many coaches in how many years?).

Also a few others before KD and a ton of interchanging teammates though (Hornacek, who had a GREAT year his first year (many thought he should have won coach of the year for winning 48 with that roster..we won't win that many this year...we won one more last year) before we traded for IT...then the second year was a little weird with the IT trade and Bledsoe for Brandon Knight trades, then we got Book in the next draft.

Then he somehow became a horrible coach....then Earl Watson, Jay Triano, Kokoskov, Monty, Vogel, Bud. It really seems the coaching pedigree has gotten better and better since Watson but we have gotten worse since Monty.

But the main reason we got worse is because we got the last two great years of Chris Paul's career and we saw what a difference maker he was.

Had we never gotten Chris Paul my bet is Booker is viewed A LOT differently. Probably more like Beal is viewed.

[sunsbum]

You said Booker to Houston for Adams and picks and Jeff Green. I thought....

Your valuations are off on these dudes.

Booker trade would have included the other Green but with his poison pill - tough to trade

Durant has less valuation

What’s you wager on what Durant will bring back

Well this is where I differ from you, BW and some others here. I think that every team that doesn't win the title will at least have talk about adding him in the summer. Probably half of those will at least call and make an offer.

So that means 15 different offers for Durant. Minimum.

My favorite teams for him? We've been through that already. I think OKC and HOU are the most obvious and the only ones that make sense. As far as offers from them:

OKC-

Best case is JDub/Hartenstein/low level picks/filler
Worst case is probably some combo of Dort/Dieng/Topic/Wallace/filler. We'd also get some higher quality picks like their Philly picks this year and that Dallas pick in 2028.

Houston-

Best case is Amen, FVV and all our picks back.
Worst case is Jalen Green, Jabari Smith and some of our picks back. I think that we're more likely to get them to bit on Booker as he fits their team better.

I think you’ve made it pretty clear you want to trade KD to Houston or OKC. No need to spam it on every page.

[Slim Charless]

Booker trade would have included the other Green but with his poison pill - tough to trade

Durant has less valuation

What’s you wager on what Durant will bring back

Well this is where I differ from you, BW and some others here. I think that every team that doesn't win the title will at least have talk about adding him in the summer. Probably half of those will at least call and make an offer.

So that means 15 different offers for Durant. Minimum.

My favorite teams for him? We've been through that already. I think OKC and HOU are the most obvious and the only ones that make sense. As far as offers from them:

OKC-

Best case is JDub/Hartenstein/low level picks/filler
Worst case is probably some combo of Dort/Dieng/Topic/Wallace/filler. We'd also get some higher quality picks like their Philly picks this year and that Dallas pick in 2028.

Houston-

Best case is Amen, FVV and all our picks back.
Worst case is Jalen Green, Jabari Smith and some of our picks back. I think that we're more likely to get them to bit on Booker as he fits their team better.

I think you’ve made it pretty clear you want to trade KD to Houston or OKC. No need to spam it on every page.

Booker too.

[Slim Charless]

For those skeptical about our owner and GM....i will say thisI'm worried about Boston and us getting convinced to take KP and like Jrue for him. I don't think Boston is winning again and will make moves. Plus they were on his list way back when he signed with the Dubs.

Hopefully he doesn't get the idea to force his way there and make us take their old, overpaid formerly good players.

That would kind of suck and I could see something like that happening too, and if we are doing the usual trying to please Book there isn't a low chance of us taking back older vets like those guys as opposed to trying to get young guys.

Book knows he can always bolt or ask out if things don't work out and that at worst he's a FA in 2028. Of course he says he wants to play his career in Phx, until he doesn't. He's not gonna say "I wanna play here one more year."

Yeah hopefully not as i think Durant is close to Tatum and Brown so he might want to play with those guys. That would suck to have trade him there

[Ghost of Kleine]

Depending on who we get for KD and Booker (JDub/Amen) we might need Greyson's shooting. I'm happy we kept him. Shooters are always needed and he also is the only guy on the team with a little grit.

Shouldn't really surprise anyone....lol. But I have a couple of prospects in this upcoming draft that will embody BOTH of those traits.

Shooters: (2nd rounders)
Tucker Devries, Peyton Sandfort, Milan Momcilovic, Chaz Lanier.

Gritty tough, athletic defensive players: ( late first through 2nd round options)

Johni Broome, JO JO Tugler, Trevon Brazile, JT Toppin.

Also, two prospects with star potential ( IF THEY ACTUALLY DECLARE FOR THIS DRAFT??
1- Koby Brea- Klay Thompson/ Devin Booker 2.0!
2- Isiah Evans- A 6'7- 6'8 clone of Brandon Ingram. Very smooth scorer.

Also Trevon Brazile is a slightly skinnier ( not yet fully muscularly developed version of Amare Stoudemire). Just needs more muscle / weight added. And JoJo Tugler is a 6'8 230 lb elite multipositional gritty non stop motor big forward version of Robert Williams! ( 7'6 wingspan) and the most elite defender in the entire draft.

We could really walk away with an even stronger core of young talent if our scouts are paying attention to any of these names, just as they did with Dunn.

I'm ready for your draft analysis posts in the draft thread, though hopefully only one video per post so we'll maybe watch them.

I imagine most of us can only read so much "KD to ____________ for _____________" and Booker to _________________ for _____________" posts before late June/July. We've got like 5 months left!

And I know I'm as guilty as anyone, if not the guiltiest...

So we can start zeroing in on what to do with that pick # 28! And if we trade KD to Dallas and their 18th pick is included or to another team.

What pick will Houston get with ours if they keep it? #1? 4? 10? 15?

I'll probably start looking into our best options at some point this week. Depending upon what we identify as our greatest needs or the best available talent. I admittedly only have veiled hopes for them actually keeping the picks ( CLE 25' 1st- 29) and the Denver 25' 2nd- 55th pick).

As for the pick I expect them to end up with, I believe it'll end up being in the 7-9 range, but maybe jump into the top 5 mysteriously.

I will say that the 3 names we should really be looking into very aggressively given our ranges and our critical needs are: Johni Broome, Jo Jo Tugler, and Trevon Brazile. I only mention these prospects due to their elite traits and abilities, etc. and how they could impact and shore up our greatest weaknesses. I'd challenge anyone to look into these names for potential ideal archetypal fit.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

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Karmic retribution can be severe sometimes.

[TeamTragic]

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To play with which players? This makes zero sense and they were clearly low balling.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

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[TeamTragic]

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This franchise saw what happened with Luka and really thought this was a good idea.

What is going on in the NBA?

[thamadkant]

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Karmic retribution can be severe sometimes.

It's sad so many fans are low enough IQ to not realize these salaried employees, yes, a GM is an employee, is just following ownership direction.

The current owners of Mavericks saw the opportunity to go for a championship run this season and next and AD statistically when healthy will provide that. Luka is a great offensive player but will always be targeted on the defensive end... making the finals is great but they would always struggle to make it back, just see the suns, luck and matchup always needs to be favourable.

The business mind in me suggest that the rumours about mavs owner wanting to also clean house in 2 years time to move to Vegas makes sense considering their interests.

[bwgood77]

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To play with which players? This makes zero sense and they were clearly low balling.

Herro and Bam. Solid guard in the Booker mold and one of the best defensive Cs. Probably also thinks it would be cool to live in Miami. For GS, it's probably like "been there, done that".

[TeamTragic]

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To play with which players? This makes zero sense and they were clearly low balling.

Herro and Bam. Solid guard in the Booker mold and one of the best defensive Cs. Probably also thinks it would be cool to live in Miami. For GS, it's probably like "been there, done that".

Clearly their package was hot garbage.

[dcoop]

You guys should join the discord bw made. I know it’s like an old dog learning new tricks but a better platform without ads and laginess of this site

[bwgood77]

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Looking forward to him leaving in FA or us deciding what to do when he's 41 with no picks.

[bwgood77]

You guys should join the discord bw made. I know it’s like an old dog learning new tricks but a better platform without ads and laginess of this site

I need to figure out what more you can do there, but glad to see a number of people are there. Don't know much about it, but much easier to post and discuss things quickly. Was reading some stuff but mainly people should at least bookmark it in case the forum goes down if they want to continue discussion. That earlier invite expires in 7 days so probably better if you would want to go there to accept it and then bookmark the page.

https://discord.gg/syxGs4GQ