2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[Barkley6]

No, but neither was Craig. He's not a good fit on the floor with Ayton or McGee so it's tough to see how we would benefit with him.

I think he can. He's not an incredible shooter from 3, but he's passable. For reference, he has an identical career 3pt% as Shawn Marion (33.1%), who was definitely able to play with non-shooting 5s.

It's not the perfect pairing, but I think it works well enough.

If he could get his %s back up, yes. His 3pt shots lasts year were actually on extremely low volume. He wouldn't start though. Crowder was likely promised a starting role when he signed and regardless of some not liking him, he was an integral part to two consecutive finals teams...and it has been reported a number of times the Heat's big issue with not being as good was because they have not been able to replace what Crowder gave them.

Heck, Monty really increased his minutes in the playoffs too. 27 mpg in the regular season but 32 mpg in 3 of the series and over 37 mpg in the finals. Monty obviously is very high on him and has stated it is very hard to take him off the floor given what he brings.

I fully agree Crowder should start, but I think at 27mpg you're starting to get into diminishing returns. I'd be a lot more comfortable with Crowder closer to 24mpg, and Cam closer to 28mpg than vice versa.

Thad can play a little small ball 5. He's got a 7'1'' wingspan and is a solid defender. I wouldn't want him bodying up on a Kanter, but I think he can be effective in short bursts in that type of situation.

The way I see minutes breaking down:
Jae Crowder, 24 mpg (all at PF)
Cam Johnson 28 mpg (18 at SF, 10 at PF)
Young 20 mpg (14 at PF, 6 at C)

[Years80HAWKS]

I wonder what the Spurs are asking for from us.
I'm guessing they are trying to pry more than just Smith to take back Saric.
I'm thinking we told them, Saric & Smith. That's it. The offer will remain on the table if they reconsider at a later time.

Yeah! Smith being part of the trade is something that I personally just wouldn't do myself as IF sending out both Smith and Saric, We got back a good and versatile veteran in Young. But Young is what..........6'8 at best. So we've now successfully gotten smaller. Our size and lack of athleticism was a major factor in our finals loss. So I'm not sure losing size and further frontcourt depth in a two for one is really a good deal for us. Especially with what Smith had shown to be capable of when finally recieving playing time in the summer league.

If the trade is something around Saric/ Kaminsky and a 2nd, Then it becomes a good trade for us. But if it becomes Saric/ Smith, etc. Including Smith, And thusly losing critical frontcourt size/ length and rim protection, May surely come back to bite us in the azz!

The question for me is 1) To TRY TO WIN NOW or 2)TO KEEP SMITH FOR THE FUTURE.

Young can be the perfect fit for a championship caliber team if he comes off the bench and we do not expect super great things from him.
Paul is old and he is not going to last more than 2 seasons at a good level (although he was supposed to be almost done and he has been our MVP, imo). Young could help try to go deep into the PO next year again.

On the other hand, Booker is quite young, as is Ayton, Bridges, Payne, Cam... so Smith could be part of a winning team with great future.

Tough decision.
I would go with the trade if the price is Saric and Smith or even if it includes Crawford, Cam...

[Frank Lee]

No way JSmith would hold up this deal. It’s more likely some squabbling over draft picks, IF they are talking at all….furthermore, Smith is a toss in to make #s work. Outside of a few posters here, Smith is still riding the ‘potential’ rather than the proven value and his window is closing. He’ll be a better player 5 yrs and 8 passport stamps from now.

Yup. I said it… a toss in. And if you can get off Saric’s deal, and retain the rights to sign Shamet and Young, we become much more flexible next yr with Sign and Trades…. And of course, the assumed willingness of Sarver to venture into tax land. Young would be a nice cherry on top of a somewhat bland off season Sundae

[Barkley6]

I think something else that's worth discussing is that if we dealt Saric and Smith for Young, we'd open an additional roster spot. Meaning we could still sign two players to minimum deals. There are still some solid NBA caliber players on the market right now like RHJ, Stanley Johnson, James Ennis, Troy Daniels, Langston Galloway, E'Twuan Moore, Isaiah Hartenstein, Luke Kornet, DJ Wilson, Patrick Patterson, Denzel Valentine, that we could fill out spots 14 and 15 with.

2 of those guys plus Thad certainly is pretty good for Saric who won't play this year and Smith who might find himself out of the rotation early on.

[bwgood77]

I think he can. He's not an incredible shooter from 3, but he's passable. For reference, he has an identical career 3pt% as Shawn Marion (33.1%), who was definitely able to play with non-shooting 5s.

It's not the perfect pairing, but I think it works well enough.

If he could get his %s back up, yes. His 3pt shots lasts year were actually on extremely low volume. He wouldn't start though. Crowder was likely promised a starting role when he signed and regardless of some not liking him, he was an integral part to two consecutive finals teams...and it has been reported a number of times the Heat's big issue with not being as good was because they have not been able to replace what Crowder gave them.

Heck, Monty really increased his minutes in the playoffs too. 27 mpg in the regular season but 32 mpg in 3 of the series and over 37 mpg in the finals. Monty obviously is very high on him and has stated it is very hard to take him off the floor given what he brings.

I fully agree Crowder should start, but I think at 27mpg you're starting to get into diminishing returns. I'd be a lot more comfortable with Crowder closer to 24mpg, and Cam closer to 28mpg than vice versa.

Thad can play a little small ball 5. He's got a 7'1'' wingspan and is a solid defender. I wouldn't want him bodying up on a Kanter, but I think he can be effective in short bursts in that type of situation.

The way I see minutes breaking down:
Jae Crowder, 24 mpg (all at PF)
Cam Johnson 28 mpg (18 at SF, 10 at PF)
Young 20 mpg (14 at PF, 6 at C)

That's a decent rotation, but Young hasn't ever had that few minutes, not even as a rookie. He dropped to 24-25 with the Bulls probably wanting to develop their younger guys, but was consistently over 30 before that.

[Barkley6]

If he could get his %s back up, yes. His 3pt shots lasts year were actually on extremely low volume. He wouldn't start though. Crowder was likely promised a starting role when he signed and regardless of some not liking him, he was an integral part to two consecutive finals teams...and it has been reported a number of times the Heat's big issue with not being as good was because they have not been able to replace what Crowder gave them.

Heck, Monty really increased his minutes in the playoffs too. 27 mpg in the regular season but 32 mpg in 3 of the series and over 37 mpg in the finals. Monty obviously is very high on him and has stated it is very hard to take him off the floor given what he brings.

I fully agree Crowder should start, but I think at 27mpg you're starting to get into diminishing returns. I'd be a lot more comfortable with Crowder closer to 24mpg, and Cam closer to 28mpg than vice versa.

Thad can play a little small ball 5. He's got a 7'1'' wingspan and is a solid defender. I wouldn't want him bodying up on a Kanter, but I think he can be effective in short bursts in that type of situation.

The way I see minutes breaking down:
Jae Crowder, 24 mpg (all at PF)
Cam Johnson 28 mpg (18 at SF, 10 at PF)
Young 20 mpg (14 at PF, 6 at C)

That's a decent rotation, but Young hasn't ever had that few minutes, not even as a rookie. He dropped to 24-25 with the Bulls probably wanting to develop their younger guys, but was consistently over 30 before that.

He's 33 and is a role player on a contender. His role is definitely going to change here. I also don't think anyone else is offering him a bigger role at this point.

[Saberestar]

He also could just be reporting that out based on info he heard from someone who saw Flex/Sidery's tweets piggybacking one another. It's kind of a footnote in that article. I don't doubt we have had conversations but we probably monitor all sorts of stuff.

As I've said many times, I do not think Jones/Bukstein/Monty call up anyone and tell them what we are doing...or if they did tell a player it's in confidence. I doubt anyone says "Let me give Flex a ring to keep him in the loop". This could all be fake news, especially since you know they are very high on Jae and Cam.

There are leaks all the time in sports news, we have see it so many times.

Not from the Suns. There was speculation on McGee. Nothing on anything last year outside of CP3 which was due to himself talking to Wilbon about buying a house in Phx well before the news. Heck, according to Rubio, he was assured he wasn't going anywhere and him and Oubre were shocked when they found out.

Nothing really on the Shamet trade and multiple others.

I do imagine agents leak things sometimes (though Flex probably isn't their go-to), but I seriously doubt Jones/Bukstein/Monty do.

What about Elfrid Payton a couple weeks ago?

[lilfishi22]

I'd be keen on Young for sure. From a value standpoint, I'd probably prefer Milsap since he would be an addition rather than a trade.

Either guys would be awesome

[bwgood77]

There are leaks all the time in sports news, we have see it so many times.

Not from the Suns. There was speculation on McGee. Nothing on anything last year outside of CP3 which was due to himself talking to Wilbon about buying a house in Phx well before the news. Heck, according to Rubio, he was assured he wasn't going anywhere and him and Oubre were shocked when they found out.

Nothing really on the Shamet trade and multiple others.

I do imagine agents leak things sometimes (though Flex probably isn't their go-to), but I seriously doubt Jones/Bukstein/Monty do.

What about Elfrid Payton a couple weeks ago?

That's true.

[bwgood77]

I'd be keen on Young for sure. From a value standpoint, I'd probably prefer Milsap since he would be an addition rather than a trade.

Either guys would be awesome

Millsap is rumored to have interest from Brooklyn (who doesn't care about the tax I don't think and probably has the tax MLE) and they say he would compete to start, and then the Warriors, Bulls and Clips.

[lilfishi22]

I'd be keen on Young for sure. From a value standpoint, I'd probably prefer Milsap since he would be an addition rather than a trade.

Either guys would be awesome

Millsap is rumored to have interest from Brooklyn (who doesn't care about the tax I don't think and probably has the tax MLE) and they say he would compete to start, and then the Warriors, Bulls and Clips.

FWIW I don't think we'd end up with either guys

[Ghost of Kleine]

I wonder what the Spurs are asking for from us.
I'm guessing they are trying to pry more than just Smith to take back Saric.
I'm thinking we told them, Saric & Smith. That's it. The offer will remain on the table if they reconsider at a later time.

Yeah! Smith being part of the trade is something that I personally just wouldn't do myself as IF sending out both Smith and Saric, We got back a good and versatile veteran in Young. But Young is what..........6'8 at best. So we've now successfully gotten smaller. Our size and lack of athleticism was a major factor in our finals loss. So I'm not sure losing size and further frontcourt depth in a two for one is really a good deal for us. Especially with what Smith had shown to be capable of when finally recieving playing time in the summer league.

If the trade is something around Saric/ Kaminsky and a 2nd, Then it becomes a good trade for us. But if it becomes Saric/ Smith, etc. Including Smith, And thusly losing critical frontcourt size/ length and rim protection, May surely come back to bite us in the azz!

The question for me is 1) To TRY TO WIN NOW or 2)TO KEEP SMITH FOR THE FUTURE.

Young can be the perfect fit for a championship caliber team if he comes off the bench and we do not expect super great things from him.
Paul is old and he is not going to last more than 2 seasons at a good level (although he was supposed to be almost done and he has been our MVP, imo). Young could help try to go deep into the PO next year again.

On the other hand, Booker is quite young, as is Ayton, Bridges, Payne, Cam... so Smith could be part of a winning team with great future.

Tough decision.
I would go with the trade if the price is Saric and Smith or even if it includes Crawford, Cam...

Fair points, Although I believe that one of the biggest reasons we couldn't overcome the Bucks in the finals was due to our lack of size whenever Ayton sat, Wherrin they consistently got high percentage shots at/ around the rim, And now we're getting smaller?!?! I mean this trade has us sending out two 6'10 frontcourt players for one 6'7 MAYBE 6'8 in return. Don't get me wrong, I love that he's a really good high IQ positional defender of course and he gets a lot of deflections and is a good passer from the post ( versatility). My only concern is that even with a 7'1 wingspan, He's not known for his athleticism, Nor is he at all a passable rim protector either at 0.4 per game. I also get that we'll most likely do the trade anyways. But I just really do worry that getting smaller is not a recipe for success, especially in the playoffs. Say we go up against the Lakers, Who will he be effective guarding Davis or even Howard? Who does he cover if we play teams with big, athletic frontcourts? At 6'8, It has to be considered a legitimate concern.

Lastly, we give up two potential floor spacers for someone who doesn't really space the floor much at all. I just rather add a vet through the buyout market rather than include Smith personally. As I really think trading him after what he's shown in his time this summer will come back to bite us. But hopefully I'm wrong!

[Ghost of Kleine]

I just don’t see how he fits… unless McGee is going to be 3rd string center. I can’t see Monty playing Thad and McGee together

Thad IS NOT a center.

No, but neither was Craig. He's not a good fit on the floor with Ayton or McGee so it's tough to see how we would benefit with him.

I'm sorry. I know that this opinion might rub some people the wrong way, But I honestly see the underlying interest in this trade being overtly financially motivated in that with being able to get clear of Sarics' 3rd yr salary in return for Youngs' 14 million expiring next season, And ultimately clearing $ 14 million off the books right before Aytons' and Bridges' extensions come due , is a fair price ( to Saver) to pay for the additional savings heading into 2023. I also would fully expect them to explore next summer's free agent market again for the best bargain bin options in order to save money.

I think getting smaller ( IF we don't return to an uptempo/ fastbreak style of play) will be a mistake against any potentially bigger frontcourt teams that will look to exploit our lack of frontcourt size. But I suppose only time will tell?

[Crives]

Thad IS NOT a center.

No, but neither was Craig. He's not a good fit on the floor with Ayton or McGee so it's tough to see how we would benefit with him.

I'm sorry. I know that this opinion might rub some people the wrong way, But I honestly see the underlying interest in this trade being overtly financially motivated in that with being able to get clear of Sarics' 3rd yr salary in return for Youngs' 14 million expiring next season, And ultimately clearing $ 14 million off the books right before Aytons' and Bridges' extensions come due , is a fair price ( to Saver) to pay for the additional savings heading into 2023. I also would fully expect them to explore next summer's free agent market again for the best bargain bin options in order to save money.

I think getting smaller ( IF we don't return to an uptempo/ fastbreak style of play) will be a mistake against any potentially bigger frontcourt teams that will look to exploit our lack of frontcourt size. But I suppose only time will tell?

This is what I fear. We may be waiting to ink the extensions before deciding on trading Smith or Dario

[lilfishi22]

You can't get away from the financial aspect to this. I don't think it's necessarily wrong if you can clear some salary going forward while still bringing in a good player (ala Carter/1st for Shamet trade) but this is also why I don't think Millsap would happen even if it's significantly less complex to make happen (no team to deal with). Adding Millsap is added salary for this year and also doesn't solve for the $13-14m "problem" that is Smith/Saric.

[RunDogGun]

We need a better starting pf. Unless we are trading to improve our starting line up, I just don't see the point in trading right now. All a move for a back up pf spot will do now is limit CamJ's minutes.

I don't really think it hurts Cams minutes too much. The one whose minutes will likely see a reduction is Crowder, and I think that's justified. He's a great player to have on our team and plays his role well, but he shouldn't be playing 28 minutes a game, unless he's on fire from deep. Having a rotation of Crowder, Cam and Thad also allows you to play the hot hand, and make guys fight for minutes which always ends up producing better results. If Cam and/or Crowder are off, then Thad is going to play more. If they are both firing, Thad will play less. Thad also has a 7'1'' wingspan which suggests he can definitely be a small ball 5 at times.

I'm not worried about it hurting Cam's minutes.

Well currently we have a solid three man forward rotation with Nader and Smith to get sloppy thirds, where Johnson gets minutes at both the three and the four. If we were to get Young, it crushes Cam's minutes at the four, and moves him to a back up three. So is that a split of Bridges and Cam getting 24 minutes each? Bridges with 30 and Cam with 18? I would not like to see the rebounding edge of the other team if Thad, Crowder, and Cam were the front court. I am really hoping we don't have to go small ball often. I just don't see many minutes for Thad at the five unless we have injures. I really want to see CamJ getting more minutes with a greater role this season. I think we failed to use him to his fullest.

[bwgood77]

No, but neither was Craig. He's not a good fit on the floor with Ayton or McGee so it's tough to see how we would benefit with him.

I'm sorry. I know that this opinion might rub some people the wrong way, But I honestly see the underlying interest in this trade being overtly financially motivated in that with being able to get clear of Sarics' 3rd yr salary in return for Youngs' 14 million expiring next season, And ultimately clearing $ 14 million off the books right before Aytons' and Bridges' extensions come due , is a fair price ( to Saver) to pay for the additional savings heading into 2023. I also would fully expect them to explore next summer's free agent market again for the best bargain bin options in order to save money.

I think getting smaller ( IF we don't return to an uptempo/ fastbreak style of play) will be a mistake against any potentially bigger frontcourt teams that will look to exploit our lack of frontcourt size. But I suppose only time will tell?

This is what I fear. We may be waiting to ink the extensions before deciding on trading Smith or Dario

I think it makes sense. Thad obviously helps more than Saric and you are able to unload that Saric 3rd year salary with extensions and clear money if you want to re-sign Shamet. You still have Crowder and Cam at the 4. Ultimately in two years we would have the same team we have going in now minus Jalen since Saric is injured anyway. I don't know if we'd get bird rights on Thad if we wanted to possibly decide to keep him, though I doubt we would because you can't really create enough playing time for that many guys who will want it/should get it.

And of course in two years we will have internal improvement which will be the main thing...though the biggest question mark won't be how to fill the 4/5 but what to do to replace Paul after the following year.

I'm sure we get to the extensions regardless. I was wondering with Bridges, if him and his agent would take it as an insult if we tried to use Oubre's contract as a reference point (2/$26). I probably wouldn't bring him up but interesting he's the guy he backed up just a little over a year ago.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Bogyo]

Yeah! Smith being part of the trade is something that I personally just wouldn't do myself as IF sending out both Smith and Saric, We got back a good and versatile veteran in Young. But Young is what..........6'8 at best. So we've now successfully gotten smaller. Our size and lack of athleticism was a major factor in our finals loss. So I'm not sure losing size and further frontcourt depth in a two for one is really a good deal for us. Especially with what Smith had shown to be capable of when finally recieving playing time in the summer league.

If the trade is something around Saric/ Kaminsky and a 2nd, Then it becomes a good trade for us. But if it becomes Saric/ Smith, etc. Including Smith, And thusly losing critical frontcourt size/ length and rim protection, May surely come back to bite us in the azz!

The question for me is 1) To TRY TO WIN NOW or 2)TO KEEP SMITH FOR THE FUTURE.

Young can be the perfect fit for a championship caliber team if he comes off the bench and we do not expect super great things from him.
Paul is old and he is not going to last more than 2 seasons at a good level (although he was supposed to be almost done and he has been our MVP, imo). Young could help try to go deep into the PO next year again.

On the other hand, Booker is quite young, as is Ayton, Bridges, Payne, Cam... so Smith could be part of a winning team with great future.

Tough decision.
I would go with the trade if the price is Saric and Smith or even if it includes Crawford, Cam...

Fair points, Although I believe that one of the biggest reasons we couldn't overcome the Bucks in the finals was due to our lack of size whenever Ayton sat, Wherrin they consistently got high percentage shots at/ around the rim, And now we're getting smaller?!?! I mean this trade has us sending out two 6'10 frontcourt players for one 6'7 MAYBE 6'8 in return. Don't get me wrong, I love that he's a really good high IQ positional defender of course and he gets a lot of deflections and is a good passer from the post ( versatility). My only concern is that even with a 7'1 wingspan, He's not known for his athleticism, Nor is he at all a passable rim protector either at 0.4 per game. I also get that we'll most likely do the trade anyways. But I just really do worry that getting smaller is not a recipe for success, especially in the playoffs. Say we go up against the Lakers, Who will he be effective guarding Davis or even Howard? Who does he cover if we play teams with big, athletic frontcourts? At 6'8, It has to be considered a legitimate concern.

Lastly, we give up two potential floor spacers for someone who doesn't really space the floor much at all. I just rather add a vet through the buyout market rather than include Smith personally. As I really think trading him after what he's shown in his time this summer will come back to bite us. But hopefully I'm wrong!

I don't really think we get that much "smaller". Thad would mostly be a backup 4. Then a backup 5 if need be. Our primary backup 5 is McGee, who is big enough and athletic enough (although he has lost some of his hops by now). So basically Thad would be replacing Saric's minutes who can not jump over a newspaper (or ipad for you youngsters) on his good days, and on his bad days he is mostly injured or can not do a decent basketball play on the court. While he might be 2 inches taller than Young, he is not as strong, and not as athletic, and has a smaller wingspan and standing reach. Also, he likely will not play at all this year, even in the playoffs - or just return for the playoffs, which is kinda the same.
Young will be a bit more capable of defending LeBron or Davis or Aaron Gordon or Looney or Gay or Ibaka or KD or Giannis than Saric would be - in my opinion.

About your other post dealing with the salaries / financial problem... yeah, agreed on that... kinda tricky situation to be in with the track record of Sarver... not much we can do about that, huh? Hope and pray

[Ghost of Kleine]

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The ever delusional Flakers bandwagon biotches are suffering greatly from the butthurt of us knowing them out of their title run this last season! I wonder how much more it'll hurt when we knock them out again this season too!