Should the Suns match a max contract offer for Eric Bledsoe?

[Sun Scorched]

I hope suns FO learnt from the past..
- Joe Johnson
- Shawn Marion

And of course Amare...

Arguably 2/3 of those players they got wrong...

Marion 7 years after asking for Max is still a top 5 defender at his position and arguably above average player overall.
Would of been 18/10/1.5/1.5 throughout his max contract year IMO...

I feel similar with Bledsoe.... He could be 20/7/2.5 PG for the next 5 years...

You keep that player at any cost... And you try to make moves somewhere else..

With that said Suns FO now are different from back then...

Also Dragic had an awesome fantastic year... Who is a Eligible for extension next season...
He would also command max or near max...

Cannot have two max players of the same position... I can't see it.

Honestly still think they did the right thing with Marion - people may forget, but he was being an absolute diva at the time while also being the highest paid player on a Suns team that included Nash and Stoudemire. He was getting paid $17M in his final year and wanted $20M - that's just stupid. He crashed in MIA, then TOR and finally got a reasonable contract in DAL and fit the system perfectly.

But that was a good call by the Suns FO, in my opinion. So was letting Stoudemire walk to NYK. I guess Johnson was the only botched transaction.

[Sun Scorched]

At this point, Dragic should be valued at around 12 million a year because he's unquestionably the heart and soul of the team and the best player on the roster. Bledsoe should be at about 10 million a year, docked a bit for having missed so much time and not getting a chance to prove it over an entire year.

Of course, nothing is as it should be, so we'll probably have to go into cap hell to keep both of them and add a third component.

These are my exact thoughts. Suns can give Bledsoe one more year and higher raises. Ideally, you start him at $10m with max raises and a player option on the 5th year to combat needing to max him out on a four year deal.

[WeekapaugGroove]

For sure you match. If they weren't comfortable matching any offer then he should have been traded at the deadline. Suns are in no position to let assets leave. It's that simple imo

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We would not have received much for an injured player at the deadline.

As for any undervaluing, I don't think anyone is undervaluing Bledsoe's defense. There were many times after he came back from injury, where he was not as good defensively. Westbrook went to the basket at will while Bledsoe was guarding him, and often without using a pick or screen.

I still think the injury comes into play here. It was second injury to the same knee, and while our med staff is used to seeing knee injuries now, we also passed on Amare because of his knees.

Moreover, I still feel it is stupid for players to want the max, when they aren't even all stars. We aren't the Knicks or LAL, so we don't have deep pockets. It seems like stars get disgruntled when the team can't put stars around them, yet have no problem taking up a large portion of the cap space.

Now if there was no cap, I could see players going for all the money they can get. But since there is a cap, money plays a huge role in the team building. Asking for the max (or even expecting it) on a team without deep pockets, is just setting things up for failure and issues down the line.

I'm hoping McD is in Bledsoe's ear about building a team and what it will take to do so within the CBA.

I actually think they could have gotten a decent return from one of the tanking teams. Orlando, Milwaukee, and even philly would have been interested. At that point they wouldn't have cared that he was hurt it would have been about being able to match and keep him this summer. Now I doubt the offers would have been awesome; probably pieces like affalo but I'm guessing they will be better than any of the sign and trade possibilities this summer (if there are any at all).

People need to stop bringing up what dragic currently makes. Just because we have goran on a bargin for one more yr has 0 bearing on what bledsoe should get. Bledsoe should and will get the most the market will offer this summer. Hope it's around 10m but I'm fine if it's the full mini-max. The problem with just letting him walk is its not like there's 10 guys available in free agency that you can turn around and spend the money on instead.

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[Revived]

We just have to pray no one offers him max. It would put us in a horrible situation. If we sign him at max we will have to match with Dragic and we will use up most of our cap on two point guards for years. And if we let him go, he'll end up at a terrible, poorly run team that's just throwing money around desperately and that won't win. And five years down the road he'll look back and realize the extra five million per year wasn't worth being in a frustrating situation and never seeing the postseason.

This is basically a 50 win team with Bledsoe healthy. We need one more significant piece to become a 55-60 win team. And it will be tough to add that if we are soon locked in to paying Bledsoe and Dragic $30 million a year.

I think a 24 year old player who has yet to earn any legit money (NBA wise) cares more financial security than winning or post season.

Players very rarely take a paycut after their rookie contract.

I bet you can't name me one player who is as good as Bledsoe and took a paycut after his rookie contract was up.

Even LeBron who took paycut in Miami took it AFTER signing a max deal extension with Cleveland after his rookie contract was up.

Even though I'm a Suns fan, if Bledsoe took a paycut to remain in PHX, I'd say that he's really stupid or that he has a terrible agent or maybe both.

[Revived]

For sure you match. If they weren't comfortable matching any offer then he should have been traded at the deadline. Suns are in no position to let assets leave. It's that simple imo

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We would not have received much for an injured player at the deadline.

As for any undervaluing, I don't think anyone is undervaluing Bledsoe's defense. There were many times after he came back from injury, where he was not as good defensively. Westbrook went to the basket at will while Bledsoe was guarding him, and often without using a pick or screen.

I still think the injury comes into play here. It was second injury to the same knee, and while our med staff is used to seeing knee injuries now, we also passed on Amare because of his knees.

Moreover, I still feel it is stupid for players to want the max, when they aren't even all stars. We aren't the Knicks or LAL, so we don't have deep pockets. It seems like stars get disgruntled when the team can't put stars around them, yet have no problem taking up a large portion of the cap space.

Now if there was no cap, I could see players going for all the money they can get. But since there is a cap, money plays a huge role in the team building. Asking for the max (or even expecting it) on a team without deep pockets, is just setting things up for failure and issues down the line.

I'm hoping McD is in Bledsoe's ear about building a team and what it will take to do so within the CBA.

Bledsoe got around Westbrook far easier than Russell did around Bledsoe, and far more often too. Most of the damage Westy did in their post-injury matchup came when he faced off against anyone not named Eric. Eric's defense is nothing short of incredible and he's doing that without a stopper behind him. The offensive player has the advantage and the best in the game are always going to find a way to score but I don't see how anyone can actually watch us play with Bledsoe out there and not see how much more effective everyone is because of Eric.

Not just Westbrook but Darren Collison also made scoring on Bledsoe look pretty easy.

I'm not saying he isn't a great defender but I don't think his defense alone warrants a hefty contract. He can be extremely inconsistent defensively. Maybe its conditioning and playing too many minutes or maybe its because he's asked to do too much on the other side of the court, idk.

[JDLAW]

I'm not saying he isn't a great defender but I don't think his defense alone warrants a hefty contract. He can be extremely inconsistent defensively. Maybe its conditioning and playing too many minutes or maybe its because he's asked to do too much on the other side of the court, idk.

What are you saying?

[Moochthemonkey]

neither dragic or bledsoe warrant "max" deals but they are our best players who were successful together last season...it's better to match bledsoe and just bank on the team as a whole improving over the next few years, then letting bledsoe walk and hope that a free agent will sign here.

[RunDogGun]

For sure you match. If they weren't comfortable matching any offer then he should have been traded at the deadline. Suns are in no position to let assets leave. It's that simple imo

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We would not have received much for an injured player at the deadline.

As for any undervaluing, I don't think anyone is undervaluing Bledsoe's defense. There were many times after he came back from injury, where he was not as good defensively. Westbrook went to the basket at will while Bledsoe was guarding him, and often without using a pick or screen.

I still think the injury comes into play here. It was second injury to the same knee, and while our med staff is used to seeing knee injuries now, we also passed on Amare because of his knees.

Moreover, I still feel it is stupid for players to want the max, when they aren't even all stars. We aren't the Knicks or LAL, so we don't have deep pockets. It seems like stars get disgruntled when the team can't put stars around them, yet have no problem taking up a large portion of the cap space.

Now if there was no cap, I could see players going for all the money they can get. But since there is a cap, money plays a huge role in the team building. Asking for the max (or even expecting it) on a team without deep pockets, is just setting things up for failure and issues down the line.

I'm hoping McD is in Bledsoe's ear about building a team and what it will take to do so within the CBA.

Bledsoe got around Westbrook far easier than Russell did around Bledsoe, and far more often too. Most of the damage Westy did in their post-injury matchup came when he faced off against anyone not named Eric. Eric's defense is nothing short of incredible and he's doing that without a stopper behind him. The offensive player has the advantage and the best in the game are always going to find a way to score but I don't see how anyone can actually watch us play with Bledsoe out there and not see how much more effective everyone is because of Eric.

I'm glad you read one sentence and added so much more meaning than I wrote. I watched the game against OKC post injury, and Westbrook blew by Bledsoe a couple times, and without a screen. Do I really have to pull up the footage? I never said he sucked on defense.

Oh well, this was fun.

[RunDogGun]

I actually think they could have gotten a decent return from one of the tanking teams. Orlando, Milwaukee, and even philly would have been interested. At that point they wouldn't have cared that he was hurt it would have been about being able to match and keep him this summer. Now I doubt the offers would have been awesome; probably pieces like affalo but I'm guessing they will be better than any of the sign and trade possibilities this summer (if there are any at all).

People need to stop bringing up what dragic currently makes. Just because we have goran on a bargin for one more yr has 0 bearing on what bledsoe should get. Bledsoe should and will get the most the market will offer this summer. Hope it's around 10m but I'm fine if it's the full mini-max. The problem with just letting him walk is its not like there's 10 guys available in free agency that you can turn around and spend the money on instead.

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I really dislike talking about "tanking" for my meaning for the last thirty years is different than others. But if teams were looking to lose on purpose, why would they want Bledsoe to come in and ruin that?

[Zelaznyrules]

Bledsoe got around Westbrook far easier than Russell did around Bledsoe, and far more often too. Most of the damage Westy did in their post-injury matchup came when he faced off against anyone not named Eric. Eric's defense is nothing short of incredible and he's doing that without a stopper behind him. The offensive player has the advantage and the best in the game are always going to find a way to score but I don't see how anyone can actually watch us play with Bledsoe out there and not see how much more effective everyone is because of Eric.

Not just Westbrook but Darren Collison also made scoring on Bledsoe look pretty easy.

I'm not saying he isn't a great defender but I don't think his defense alone warrants a hefty contract. He can be extremely inconsistent defensively. Maybe its conditioning and playing too many minutes or maybe its because he's asked to do too much on the other side of the court, idk.

How many 0 - 0 games have you seen in the NBA? I've watched the NBA since the early 60's and I've never seen a defender consistently shut down every opponent. It just doesn't happen, especially not with today's rules. We've never had a point guard that defends like Bledsoe. Never. Not Kidd, not Buse - never. Bledsoe makes our weakass front line look like they know what they're doing. I'm not even sure Rondo could do that and he's perhaps the best defensive point guard in the last few decades. I'd fight hard to keep him for his defense alone, the fact that he is almost unstoppable when the court is spread is a huge bonus.

[Zelaznyrules]

We would not have received much for an injured player at the deadline.

As for any undervaluing, I don't think anyone is undervaluing Bledsoe's defense. There were many times after he came back from injury, where he was not as good defensively. Westbrook went to the basket at will while Bledsoe was guarding him, and often without using a pick or screen.

I still think the injury comes into play here. It was second injury to the same knee, and while our med staff is used to seeing knee injuries now, we also passed on Amare because of his knees.

Moreover, I still feel it is stupid for players to want the max, when they aren't even all stars. We aren't the Knicks or LAL, so we don't have deep pockets. It seems like stars get disgruntled when the team can't put stars around them, yet have no problem taking up a large portion of the cap space.

Now if there was no cap, I could see players going for all the money they can get. But since there is a cap, money plays a huge role in the team building. Asking for the max (or even expecting it) on a team without deep pockets, is just setting things up for failure and issues down the line.

I'm hoping McD is in Bledsoe's ear about building a team and what it will take to do so within the CBA.

Bledsoe got around Westbrook far easier than Russell did around Bledsoe, and far more often too. Most of the damage Westy did in their post-injury matchup came when he faced off against anyone not named Eric. Eric's defense is nothing short of incredible and he's doing that without a stopper behind him. The offensive player has the advantage and the best in the game are always going to find a way to score but I don't see how anyone can actually watch us play with Bledsoe out there and not see how much more effective everyone is because of Eric.

I'm glad you read one sentence and added so much more meaning than I wrote. I watched the game against OKC post injury, and Westbrook blew by Bledsoe a couple times, and without a screen. Do I really have to pull up the footage? I never said he sucked on defense.

Oh well, this was fun.

Fun or not, you said "Westbrook went around him AT WILL". Support that.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I actually think they could have gotten a decent return from one of the tanking teams. Orlando, Milwaukee, and even philly would have been interested. At that point they wouldn't have cared that he was hurt it would have been about being able to match and keep him this summer. Now I doubt the offers would have been awesome; probably pieces like affalo but I'm guessing they will be better than any of the sign and trade possibilities this summer (if there are any at all).

People need to stop bringing up what dragic currently makes. Just because we have goran on a bargin for one more yr has 0 bearing on what bledsoe should get. Bledsoe should and will get the most the market will offer this summer. Hope it's around 10m but I'm fine if it's the full mini-max. The problem with just letting him walk is its not like there's 10 guys available in free agency that you can turn around and spend the money on instead.

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I really dislike talking about "tanking" for my meaning for the last thirty years is different than others. But if teams were looking to lose on purpose, why would they want Bledsoe to come in and ruin that?

I actually think if one of those teams would have traded for him they wouldn't have had come back and if they did it would have been later than he came back for the suns. That was point saying one of those teams wouldn't have had a problem dealing for an injured guy like bledsoe.

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[bigfoot]

Bledsoe got around Westbrook far easier than Russell did around Bledsoe, and far more often too. Most of the damage Westy did in their post-injury matchup came when he faced off against anyone not named Eric. Eric's defense is nothing short of incredible and he's doing that without a stopper behind him. The offensive player has the advantage and the best in the game are always going to find a way to score but I don't see how anyone can actually watch us play with Bledsoe out there and not see how much more effective everyone is because of Eric.

Not just Westbrook but Darren Collison also made scoring on Bledsoe look pretty easy.

I'm not saying he isn't a great defender but I don't think his defense alone warrants a hefty contract. He can be extremely inconsistent defensively. Maybe its conditioning and playing too many minutes or maybe its because he's asked to do too much on the other side of the court, idk.

How many 0 - 0 games have you seen in the NBA? I've watched the NBA since the early 60's and I've never seen a defender consistently shut down every opponent. It just doesn't happen, especially not with today's rules. We've never had a point guard that defends like Bledsoe. Never. Not Kidd, not Buse - never. Bledsoe makes our weakass front line look like they know what they're doing. I'm not even sure Rondo could do that and he's perhaps the best defensive point guard in the last few decades. I'd fight hard to keep him for his defense alone, the fact that he is almost unstoppable when the court is spread is a huge bonus.

Have never seen anyone mention Don Buse on this forum. One of the Suns top defenders. It's true that good offense beats good defense. I do not think Dragic can stop opposing pgs and Bledsoe at least does a very good job most of the time. Dragic is a nightmare matchup of opposing SGs. That is why our front court needs to stay together. Love is not worth breaking up that tandem.

[RunDogGun]

Bledsoe got around Westbrook far easier than Russell did around Bledsoe, and far more often too. Most of the damage Westy did in their post-injury matchup came when he faced off against anyone not named Eric. Eric's defense is nothing short of incredible and he's doing that without a stopper behind him. The offensive player has the advantage and the best in the game are always going to find a way to score but I don't see how anyone can actually watch us play with Bledsoe out there and not see how much more effective everyone is because of Eric.

I'm glad you read one sentence and added so much more meaning than I wrote. I watched the game against OKC post injury, and Westbrook blew by Bledsoe a couple times, and without a screen. Do I really have to pull up the footage? I never said he sucked on defense.

Oh well, this was fun.

Fun or not, you said "Westbrook went around him AT WILL". Support that.

This looks pretty effortless:
http://deadspin.com/thank-god-russell-w ... 1457959513

[DirtyDez]

If Bledsoe gets MAX it's around 14m per season. That's still about 22% of the cap which is reasonable for a top-2 player on your team. Dragic would probably make around the same. How many good teams two highest paid players aren't making at least 25-30M combined?

Also think Bledsoe can ramp up his defense after getting paid. You could tell he was pressing offensively cause that's the moneymaker. FTR I think he gets somewhere around 4/44-48M and he's worth it.

[Zelaznyrules]

I'm glad you read one sentence and added so much more meaning than I wrote. I watched the game against OKC post injury, and Westbrook blew by Bledsoe a couple times, and without a screen. Do I really have to pull up the footage? I never said he sucked on defense.

Oh well, this was fun.

Fun or not, you said "Westbrook went around him AT WILL". Support that.

This looks pretty effortless:
http://deadspin.com/thank-god-russell-w ... 1457959513

Westbrook can and does score on anyone, I would never contest that. But Eric makes him work more than most do and it was very evident in the game following Bledsoe's return from injury. Bledsoe drove him nuts and most of Westbrook's damage was done from three point range and it occurred during the stretch when Dragic guarded him. If you'll check your earlier post you'll see we were discussing the Thunder game following Eric's return from injury. Your article, while offering a nice example of Westbrook abusing our defense was from the November game. Westbrook still got around Eric a few times in the post-injury game but almost all of Russell's scoring came when Eric was on the bench or guarding Reggie Jackson.

[bwgood77]

We just have to pray no one offers him max. It would put us in a horrible situation. If we sign him at max we will have to match with Dragic and we will use up most of our cap on two point guards for years. And if we let him go, he'll end up at a terrible, poorly run team that's just throwing money around desperately and that won't win. And five years down the road he'll look back and realize the extra five million per year wasn't worth being in a frustrating situation and never seeing the postseason.

This is basically a 50 win team with Bledsoe healthy. We need one more significant piece to become a 55-60 win team. And it will be tough to add that if we are soon locked in to paying Bledsoe and Dragic $30 million a year.

I think a 24 year old player who has yet to earn any legit money (NBA wise) cares more financial security than winning or post season.

Players very rarely take a paycut after their rookie contract.

I bet you can't name me one player who is as good as Bledsoe and took a paycut after his rookie contract was up.

Even LeBron who took paycut in Miami took it AFTER signing a max deal extension with Cleveland after his rookie contract was up.

Even though I'm a Suns fan, if Bledsoe took a paycut to remain in PHX, I'd say that he's really stupid or that he has a terrible agent or maybe both.

I am not sure why you keep using the word paycut. Bledsoe certainly won't be taking a paycut next year, regardless of what he makes.

Plenty of players with similar talent have signed extended deals with their teams instead of seeking out a max elsewhere (Rondo, Curry, Lawson, etc).

I take it by paycut you mean a stud coming off a rookie contract taking less than the max when he might be able to get the max if he doesn't extend with his team.

It will probably be a moot point anyway, because he probably won't get a max offer or one close. Hopefully if he does get offers they come in around 10 million a year which is reasonable for his talent, amount of playing time so far and injury history. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't get an offer at all. The league is pretty flush with good point guards right now and there are a few near the top of the draft.

[RunDogGun]

Fun or not, you said "Westbrook went around him AT WILL". Support that.

This looks pretty effortless:
http://deadspin.com/thank-god-russell-w ... 1457959513

Westbrook can and does score on anyone, I would never contest that. But Eric makes him work more than most do and it was very evident in the game following Bledsoe's return from injury. Bledsoe drove him nuts and most of Westbrook's damage was done from three point range and it occurred during the stretch when Dragic guarded him. If you'll check your earlier post you'll see we were discussing the Thunder game following Eric's return from injury. Your article, while offering a nice example of Westbrook abusing our defense was from the November game. Westbrook still got around Eric a few times in the post-injury game but almost all of Russell's scoring came when Eric was on the bench or guarding Reggie Jackson.

This is going to get nowhere, for Westbrook only shot 2-9 from three so if six points off two shots is the "damage" you are talking about, then maybe we saw different things. But the blow bys by Westbrook (I totally admit he seems to be able to do it on anyone), were the same as that Nov game. Where Bled's defense seemed lack luster. Again, I'm not saying he is a bad defender, but as you saw in that Nov game, it isn't worthy of a max deal.

Now don't get me wrong, I like Eric on the Suns, and I like his defense, I just feel that Goran ran the squad better, and with less turnovers. And if Bledsoe gets a max deal, then Goran warrants one as well, which will really tie us up money wise. But I do want to keep our back court intact.

Now if we can get Bledsoe in a $10-12 million range, I think that we will keep Goran around the same, and give us room to add a third big player to the mix.

[RunDogGun]

I actually think they could have gotten a decent return from one of the tanking teams. Orlando, Milwaukee, and even philly would have been interested. At that point they wouldn't have cared that he was hurt it would have been about being able to match and keep him this summer. Now I doubt the offers would have been awesome; probably pieces like affalo but I'm guessing they will be better than any of the sign and trade possibilities this summer (if there are any at all).

People need to stop bringing up what dragic currently makes. Just because we have goran on a bargin for one more yr has 0 bearing on what bledsoe should get. Bledsoe should and will get the most the market will offer this summer. Hope it's around 10m but I'm fine if it's the full mini-max. The problem with just letting him walk is its not like there's 10 guys available in free agency that you can turn around and spend the money on instead.

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I really dislike talking about "tanking" for my meaning for the last thirty years is different than others. But if teams were looking to lose on purpose, why would they want Bledsoe to come in and ruin that?

I actually think if one of those teams would have traded for him they wouldn't have had come back and if they did it would have been later than he came back for the suns. That was point saying one of those teams wouldn't have had a problem dealing for an injured guy like bledsoe.

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So are you saying besides doing something dishonest like lose games on purpose, one of those teams would also be dumb enough to give up assets for a guy that could bolt the next season?

[JDLAW]

This is one of the most disjointed and nonsensical threads yet. In determining what you're willing to pay a player, you have to look at where Bledsoe or any player is going to be for the next 4-5 years. People have degenerated into trying to base his salary on what he did last year as though he has no room for improvement. This is the wrong approach. If you think Bledsoe had reached his peak, then you can look at last year and make the judgments you make. If you think there is more, you have to factor that in. Someone once said that on a 5 year contract for a young player, you accept that the first 2 years might be an overpay, the third year is break even in that you are playing what he is worth and the last two years, you underpay for what the player brings to the table.

Last year was the first year Bledsoe started on a regular basis. He had 14 new teammates he had to learn and he also had to learn to play agains the frontline NBA players regularly. He made a huge jump from this LAC days. I happen to think he has significant headroom before he hits the ceiling.

I am confident he will continue to improve as will Dragic. That's right neither has peaked at this points in their careers.

The Suns backcourt can be an area that is well-settled and a strength or it can be a area that is unsettled and looking for answers. This is the one point in time where the Suns get to control this. Afterwards, the players are in control. My belief is that you resign Bledsoe period. You also resign Dragic period. Goodwin will come along and be truly ready in a couple of years and anyone you could get in the draft is not likely to be good enough at this point in their careers to make an impact on a 48 - 50 win team. If the draft a guard, that player will be developing along with Goodwin and hopefully be ready in 2-3 years. At that point you'll have to deal with their extensions. This is just today's reality with the 1st rounders being so young and inexperienced. Most are going to be on their second contract before they become impact players on a good team.

Of course the opposite is true if your team is truly wretched. Last year, Michael Carter-Williams and Victor Olidipo were top two rookies and made impacts, but some of that is illusory because they got to play substantial minutes on very bad teams. i do not think either one would have played significant minutes on the Suns last year.

My final comments in this diatribe - if you are judging Bledsoe's defense on where he can shutdown Russell Westbrook, you need recalibration of your expectations. I have no concern about whether he "shut down Russell Westbrook." Westbrook is probably the best athlete in the NBA and no one really shuts him down. In fact, no one really shuts down any of the excellent point guards in the NBA. After hand-checking was eliminated from the game, the game became the province of the fast and athletic point guards. They can get to anywhere they want on the floor and the best you can generally do is get in the way to slow them down a little. You are not going to shutdown any of the top-flight point guards.