Is Goran's regression due to 3 PG system or was last year a fluke?

[Revived]

Don't agree with that. Hornacek, a first time head coach, took a roster most thought would be lucky to win 20 games and won 48. This year, he's got us in the playoff picture. He's not perfect and he has some things to improve upon, but he's doing good work, can't honestly think of another realistic candidate who would have been better.

I think Mike Budenholzer would have implemented a better system in place here in PHX. A system that relies on ball movement and moving without basketball.

I don't know and I don't care if he would have got 48 wins out of them last year but I care more about long run system that the coach puts in place.

Ball movement/efficient/ball moving system >> Hornacek trying to copy D'Antoni offense

Funny thing is Budenholzer copies D'Antoni's offense. The whole league and most of the really good offenses are copies of it. Pop changed the Spurs offense the year after we swept them to adapt to the league and the Spurs went up a big notch offensively after that. Atlanta now uses it. Golden State uses it.

Yea they do and they rely on the importance of ball movement in it as well. Plus they actually have a good defense and rebounding system just like GSW and SAS.

Hornacek is trying to copy D'Antoni's transition system but he fails miserably in trying to copy the half court system that teams like the Hawks and Warriors use.

[bwgood77]

I think Mike Budenholzer would have implemented a better system in place here in PHX. A system that relies on ball movement and moving without basketball.

I don't know and I don't care if he would have got 48 wins out of them last year but I care more about long run system that the coach puts in place.

Ball movement/efficient/ball moving system >> Hornacek trying to copy D'Antoni offense

Funny thing is Budenholzer copies D'Antoni's offense. The whole league and most of the really good offenses are copies of it. Pop changed the Spurs offense the year after we swept them to adapt to the league and the Spurs went up a big notch offensively after that. Atlanta now uses it. Golden State uses it.

Yea they do and they rely on the importance of ball movement in it as well. Plus they actually have a good defense and rebounding system just like GSW and SAS.

Hornacek is trying to copy D'Antoni's transition system but he fails miserably in trying to copy the half court system that teams like the Hawks and Warriors use.

I don't think he really tries to copy D'Antoni's offense much other than running teams off the floor. Hornacek kind of began doing his own thing with the 2 pg system. Sure, last year the pick n roll was similar to what some of the Nash teams did in the past, as well as the stretch four. I liked D'Antoni's offense better but last year was really fun to watch. This year isn't nearly as fun because of all the iso and the loss of veteran leadership and too many ballhandlers. Hopefully that is resolved. I don't blame Hornacek for this as the players he was given to play with have similar strengths so their talents are being marginalized. Our frontcourt is probably the youngest in the league (as far as competitive teams go) so they will struggle.

I really can't believe some of the fans' expectations with this team. It really seems like some of the fans here feel we should be like a top 5 team and that we have the most talent in the league or something. Then they also want to see the young guys though.

[Son of Ra]

I too think that bottom line the Indiana trade will hurt us. I don't buy it for a second that McDo and Hornacek knew we'd be that good. I think we wanted a clean rebuild and they got sidetracked by the success possible due to basically everyone having a career year. They lost focus, and sacrificed the long term for the present. It'll cost us dearly and set us back not having developed our rookies and instead playing vets/Plumlee that barring a trade will leave for nothing in the end. It'll take a rabbit in the hat trade or signing to make up for it imho. Had Scola been here I am convinced we would've played our rookies more. Hindsight is 20/20 though I know, but I've hated not playing our young guys from day one.

[SSOL]

He's been banged up.

[Revived]

I too think that bottom line the Indiana trade will hurt us. I don't buy it for a second that McDo and Hornacek knew we'd be that good. I think we wanted a clean rebuild and they got sidetracked by the success possible due to basically everyone having a career year. They lost focus, and sacrificed the long term for the present. It'll cost us dearly and set us back not having developed our rookies and instead playing vets/Plumlee that barring a trade will leave for nothing in the end. It'll take a rabbit in the hat trade or signing to make up for it imho. Had Scola been here I am convinced we would've played our rookies more. Hindsight is 20/20 though I know, but I've hated not playing our young guys from day one.

Agreed and that last part is the BIGGEST issue I have with Hornacek. McD isn't doing him any favors either by not trading the useless veterans on the team.

[Revived]

Funny thing is Budenholzer copies D'Antoni's offense. The whole league and most of the really good offenses are copies of it. Pop changed the Spurs offense the year after we swept them to adapt to the league and the Spurs went up a big notch offensively after that. Atlanta now uses it. Golden State uses it.

Yea they do and they rely on the importance of ball movement in it as well. Plus they actually have a good defense and rebounding system just like GSW and SAS.

Hornacek is trying to copy D'Antoni's transition system but he fails miserably in trying to copy the half court system that teams like the Hawks and Warriors use.

I don't think he really tries to copy D'Antoni's offense much other than running teams off the floor. Hornacek kind of began doing his own thing with the 2 pg system. Sure, last year the pick n roll was similar to what some of the Nash teams did in the past, as well as the stretch four. I liked D'Antoni's offense better but last year was really fun to watch. This year isn't nearly as fun because of all the iso and the loss of veteran leadership and too many ballhandlers. Hopefully that is resolved. I don't blame Hornacek for this as the players he was given to play with have similar strengths so their talents are being marginalized. Our frontcourt is probably the youngest in the league (as far as competitive teams go) so they will struggle.

I really can't believe some of the fans' expectations with this team. It really seems like some of the fans here feel we should be like a top 5 team and that we have the most talent in the league or something. Then they also want to see the young guys though.

Fans are stuck of being in the middle, that's where the Suns are.

Not one Suns fan would complain if we sucked bad but was giving Len, Goodwin, Ennis, Warren and Bullock all minutes. Not one.

The fact that the SUNS themselves think that their so good that their rookies and sophomores can't play minutes for them is arrogant. If your gonna be that arrogant, then you better be damn good and the Suns arent.

[batsmasher]

If there's one thing I don't like about this season it's how terribly we've used Goran. He's not a 2-guard and never will be. Now he looks disinterested and it wouldn't be a surprise if he leaves. It's such a shame that we're wasting a guy's prime simply to feed this weird obsession we have with a 'two guard system'. IT was, and has been a good signing. But it just makes no sense for Goran playing the 2. This regression is completely to be expected. At this point it's as if we've just replaced Goran's regression with a $7M/yr IT.

I think it's a case of McD being too in love with accumulating 'assets' like IT's contract while rebuilding. The cost is missing out on a prime Goran hitting his straps.

[Barkley6]

Yea they do and they rely on the importance of ball movement in it as well. Plus they actually have a good defense and rebounding system just like GSW and SAS.

Hornacek is trying to copy D'Antoni's transition system but he fails miserably in trying to copy the half court system that teams like the Hawks and Warriors use.

I don't think he really tries to copy D'Antoni's offense much other than running teams off the floor. Hornacek kind of began doing his own thing with the 2 pg system. Sure, last year the pick n roll was similar to what some of the Nash teams did in the past, as well as the stretch four. I liked D'Antoni's offense better but last year was really fun to watch. This year isn't nearly as fun because of all the iso and the loss of veteran leadership and too many ballhandlers. Hopefully that is resolved. I don't blame Hornacek for this as the players he was given to play with have similar strengths so their talents are being marginalized. Our frontcourt is probably the youngest in the league (as far as competitive teams go) so they will struggle.

I really can't believe some of the fans' expectations with this team. It really seems like some of the fans here feel we should be like a top 5 team and that we have the most talent in the league or something. Then they also want to see the young guys though.

Fans are stuck of being in the middle, that's where the Suns are.

Not one Suns fan would complain if we sucked bad but was giving Len, Goodwin, Ennis, Warren and Bullock all minutes. Not one.

The fact that the SUNS themselves think that their so good that their rookies and sophomores can't play minutes for them is arrogant. If your gonna be that arrogant, then you better be damn good and the Suns arent.

It's not arrogant. The rookies need to BEAT someone out for playing time. If any one of the rookies was playing better in practice or was showing immense ability, you think Hornacek would keep them on the bench? At this point none of our rookies are better than our rotation players, and with the exception of PJ Tucker, Gerald Green and Goran all our guys are 27 or younger. It's not like we are playing 34 year old guys, Like, oh, I dunno LUIS SCOLA, instead of a young player.

Also, a key factor in being a winning and competitive team is that it's going to help us keep our free agents and attract new ones. Yeah, money talks in the NBA, but do you think we'd have any chance of resigning Goran (or signing Bledsoe last offseason) if we were playing the rookies 25 minutes a night and were winning 25 games a season? Orlando is a perfect example of this, look how much they had to overpay to get Channing Frye. But they are playing the rookies and losing a ton of games. That's what you want? People are enamored by this idea of developing rookies because they are scarred by the D'Antoni years. It's really foolish to me, if you want the rookies/sophomores to play, then tell them to PLAY BETTER and unseat the guy in front of them. Just like Len did with Plumlee.

[Frank Lee]

If there's one thing I don't like about this season it's how terribly we've used Goran. He's not a 2-guard and never will be. Now he looks disinterested and it wouldn't be a surprise if he leaves. It's such a shame that we're wasting a guy's prime simply to feed this weird obsession we have with a 'two guard system'. IT was, and has been a good signing. But it just makes no sense for Goran playing the 2. This regression is completely to be expected. At this point it's as if we've just replaced Goran's regression with a $7M/yr IT.

I think it's a case of McD being too in love with accumulating 'assets' like IT's contract while rebuilding. The cost is missing out on a prime Goran hitting his straps.

This is a very good point. McDo pulling an Ainge in grabbing anything on Sale. It only works if you keep swapping up.

[Barkley6]

If there's one thing I don't like about this season it's how terribly we've used Goran. He's not a 2-guard and never will be. Now he looks disinterested and it wouldn't be a surprise if he leaves. It's such a shame that we're wasting a guy's prime simply to feed this weird obsession we have with a 'two guard system'. IT was, and has been a good signing. But it just makes no sense for Goran playing the 2. This regression is completely to be expected. At this point it's as if we've just replaced Goran's regression with a $7M/yr IT.

I think it's a case of McD being too in love with accumulating 'assets' like IT's contract while rebuilding. The cost is missing out on a prime Goran hitting his straps.

I agree Dragic doesn't look like necessarily the same player we fell in love with last year, but at the same time if you look at his scoring numbers, it really has to do with his 3pt%, last year he hit a career high 40%, this year he's gone back closer to his career average of 36%. Basically, it's one less made 3 per game. If he makes that additional 3, he's scoring 19.2ppg. I'm not overly concerned about his scoring though and more concerned about his assist numbers in which he's dropped 2apg from last year.

I think the easy fix here is to run more PnR with Goran and Wright/Len and more PnP with Goran and Kieff/Marcus. I've been begging for this all season, but it just doesn't seem like we believe in it. I think that relatively small change would open everything up.

[Barkley6]

If there's one thing I don't like about this season it's how terribly we've used Goran. He's not a 2-guard and never will be. Now he looks disinterested and it wouldn't be a surprise if he leaves. It's such a shame that we're wasting a guy's prime simply to feed this weird obsession we have with a 'two guard system'. IT was, and has been a good signing. But it just makes no sense for Goran playing the 2. This regression is completely to be expected. At this point it's as if we've just replaced Goran's regression with a $7M/yr IT.

I think it's a case of McD being too in love with accumulating 'assets' like IT's contract while rebuilding. The cost is missing out on a prime Goran hitting his straps.

I agree Dragic doesn't look like necessarily the same player we fell in love with last year, but at the same time if you look at his scoring numbers, it really has to do with his 3pt%, last year he hit a career high 40%, this year he's gone back closer to his career average of 36%. Basically, it's one less made 3 per game. If he makes that additional 3, he's scoring 19.2ppg. I'm not overly concerned about his scoring though and more concerned about his assist numbers in which he's dropped 2apg from last year.

I think the easy fix here is to run more PnR with Goran and Wright/Len and more PnP with Goran and Kieff/Marcus. I've been begging for this all season, but it just doesn't seem like we believe in it. I think that relatively small change would open everything up.

[Fo-Real]

Goran should be the primary ball handler with he and Bled in. Seems to get him more involved to start games with his passing and scoring off plays he sets up, since he is the better passer. Bled is more suited to play off ball with his athleticism and slashing ability and the fact that he is turnover prone when he dribbles too much.

[swe_suns]

Goran should be the primary ball handler with he and Bled in. Seems to get him more involved to start games with his passing and scoring off plays he sets up, since he is the better passer. Bled is more suited to play off ball with his athleticism and slashing ability and the fact that he is turnover prone when he dribbles too much.

This is so obvious to me but for some reason Hornacak prefers Bledsoe to dribble the ball for 20s almost every possession instead.

[Calvin Klein]

Goran should be the primary ball handler with he and Bled in. Seems to get him more involved to start games with his passing and scoring off plays he sets up, since he is the better passer. Bled is more suited to play off ball with his athleticism and slashing ability and the fact that he is turnover prone when he dribbles too much.

This is so obvious to me but for some reason Hornacak prefers Bledsoe to dribble the ball for 20s almost every possession instead.

Agreed. I just cannot understand why they keep insisting with playing Dragic off the ball when he's clearly our best point guard and decision maker.

[In Len We Trust]

Even if Hornacek doesn't want Dragic to be the ball handler with Bledsoe on the floor he could at least give him some minutes with Green at the 2. The Dragic-Green backcourt worked last year but we never go with it this year.

[kennydorglas]

I think last year was a fluke.

[Revived]

I don't think he really tries to copy D'Antoni's offense much other than running teams off the floor. Hornacek kind of began doing his own thing with the 2 pg system. Sure, last year the pick n roll was similar to what some of the Nash teams did in the past, as well as the stretch four. I liked D'Antoni's offense better but last year was really fun to watch. This year isn't nearly as fun because of all the iso and the loss of veteran leadership and too many ballhandlers. Hopefully that is resolved. I don't blame Hornacek for this as the players he was given to play with have similar strengths so their talents are being marginalized. Our frontcourt is probably the youngest in the league (as far as competitive teams go) so they will struggle.

I really can't believe some of the fans' expectations with this team. It really seems like some of the fans here feel we should be like a top 5 team and that we have the most talent in the league or something. Then they also want to see the young guys though.

Fans are stuck of being in the middle, that's where the Suns are.

Not one Suns fan would complain if we sucked bad but was giving Len, Goodwin, Ennis, Warren and Bullock all minutes. Not one.

The fact that the SUNS themselves think that their so good that their rookies and sophomores can't play minutes for them is arrogant. If your gonna be that arrogant, then you better be damn good and the Suns arent.

It's not arrogant. The rookies need to BEAT someone out for playing time. If any one of the rookies was playing better in practice or was showing immense ability, you think Hornacek would keep them on the bench? At this point none of our rookies are better than our rotation players, and with the exception of PJ Tucker, Gerald Green and Goran all our guys are 27 or younger. It's not like we are playing 34 year old guys, Like, oh, I dunno LUIS SCOLA, instead of a young player.

Also, a key factor in being a winning and competitive team is that it's going to help us keep our free agents and attract new ones. Yeah, money talks in the NBA, but do you think we'd have any chance of resigning Goran (or signing Bledsoe last offseason) if we were playing the rookies 25 minutes a night and were winning 25 games a season? Orlando is a perfect example of this, look how much they had to overpay to get Channing Frye. But they are playing the rookies and losing a ton of games. That's what you want? People are enamored by this idea of developing rookies because they are scarred by the D'Antoni years. It's really foolish to me, if you want the rookies/sophomores to play, then tell them to PLAY BETTER and unseat the guy in front of them. Just like Len did with Plumlee.

Goodwin has played extremely well when given minutes. I've posted those stats countless amount of times.

Warren is the reigning ACC Player of the Year. A amazing scorer. No I dont think Green and Marcus are both better than him.

Ennis is the closest thing we have on this roster to a "true PG".

Guys like Kawhi Leonard, Klay Thompson, Steph Curry, Jeff Teague etc all got minutes for their team as rookies and sophomores and that's a big part of why they were able to develop.

I wanted Hornacek to start Len over Plumlee since the second half of last season. He finally did it almost a year after and its paid off. I think giving these other guys minutes will pay off in a similar way for both the short term if not the long term.

[Barkley6]

Fans are stuck of being in the middle, that's where the Suns are.

Not one Suns fan would complain if we sucked bad but was giving Len, Goodwin, Ennis, Warren and Bullock all minutes. Not one.

The fact that the SUNS themselves think that their so good that their rookies and sophomores can't play minutes for them is arrogant. If your gonna be that arrogant, then you better be damn good and the Suns arent.

It's not arrogant. The rookies need to BEAT someone out for playing time. If any one of the rookies was playing better in practice or was showing immense ability, you think Hornacek would keep them on the bench? At this point none of our rookies are better than our rotation players, and with the exception of PJ Tucker, Gerald Green and Goran all our guys are 27 or younger. It's not like we are playing 34 year old guys, Like, oh, I dunno LUIS SCOLA, instead of a young player.

Also, a key factor in being a winning and competitive team is that it's going to help us keep our free agents and attract new ones. Yeah, money talks in the NBA, but do you think we'd have any chance of resigning Goran (or signing Bledsoe last offseason) if we were playing the rookies 25 minutes a night and were winning 25 games a season? Orlando is a perfect example of this, look how much they had to overpay to get Channing Frye. But they are playing the rookies and losing a ton of games. That's what you want? People are enamored by this idea of developing rookies because they are scarred by the D'Antoni years. It's really foolish to me, if you want the rookies/sophomores to play, then tell them to PLAY BETTER and unseat the guy in front of them. Just like Len did with Plumlee.

Goodwin has played extremely well when given minutes. I've posted those stats countless amount of times.

Warren is the reigning ACC Player of the Year. A amazing scorer. No I dont think Green and Marcus are both better than him.

Ennis is the closest thing we have on this roster to a "true PG".

Guys like Kawhi Leonard, Klay Thompson, Steph Curry, Jeff Teague etc all got minutes for their team as rookies and sophomores and that's a big part of why they were able to develop.

I wanted Hornacek to start Len over Plumlee since the second half of last season. He finally did it almost a year after and its paid off. I think giving these other guys minutes will pay off in a similar way for both the short term if not the long term.

Goodwin is too one dimensional right now. He still doesn't have a 3pt shot and he is in no way better than Dragic, Bledose, IT or Green RIGHT NOW.

The ACC is not the NBA. Enough said. You can't say "Oh he was a boss in college" and therefore he is better than proven NBA players.

Klay and Steph both were playing for a GSW team that was not in playoff contention. Teague got spot minutes his first two seasons, and playing in the weak eastern conference probably helped with that. Kawhi Leonard is possibly a lone exception. I'm not opposed to playing the young guys, but I want them to EARN it, not just get court time because they are young.

As far as Len goes, we ALL knew he was going to be the eventual starter, but the Suns wanted to bring him along slowly because of his age and injury history, I don't begrudge them that.

It's not like in the D'Antoni years, where we were playing 7-8 guys a night and the last few on our bench were total scrubs (Sean Marks, Piatkowski, Pat Burke, etc.). We are playing a 10 man rotation, and all 10 are legit NBA talents. It's hard for a rookie to break into that type of team.

[Revived]

It's not arrogant. The rookies need to BEAT someone out for playing time. If any one of the rookies was playing better in practice or was showing immense ability, you think Hornacek would keep them on the bench? At this point none of our rookies are better than our rotation players, and with the exception of PJ Tucker, Gerald Green and Goran all our guys are 27 or younger. It's not like we are playing 34 year old guys, Like, oh, I dunno LUIS SCOLA, instead of a young player.

Also, a key factor in being a winning and competitive team is that it's going to help us keep our free agents and attract new ones. Yeah, money talks in the NBA, but do you think we'd have any chance of resigning Goran (or signing Bledsoe last offseason) if we were playing the rookies 25 minutes a night and were winning 25 games a season? Orlando is a perfect example of this, look how much they had to overpay to get Channing Frye. But they are playing the rookies and losing a ton of games. That's what you want? People are enamored by this idea of developing rookies because they are scarred by the D'Antoni years. It's really foolish to me, if you want the rookies/sophomores to play, then tell them to PLAY BETTER and unseat the guy in front of them. Just like Len did with Plumlee.

Goodwin has played extremely well when given minutes. I've posted those stats countless amount of times.

Warren is the reigning ACC Player of the Year. A amazing scorer. No I dont think Green and Marcus are both better than him.

Ennis is the closest thing we have on this roster to a "true PG".

Guys like Kawhi Leonard, Klay Thompson, Steph Curry, Jeff Teague etc all got minutes for their team as rookies and sophomores and that's a big part of why they were able to develop.

I wanted Hornacek to start Len over Plumlee since the second half of last season. He finally did it almost a year after and its paid off. I think giving these other guys minutes will pay off in a similar way for both the short term if not the long term.

Goodwin is too one dimensional right now. He still doesn't have a 3pt shot and he is in no way better than Dragic, Bledose, IT or Green RIGHT NOW.

The ACC is not the NBA. Enough said. You can't say "Oh he was a boss in college" and therefore he is better than proven NBA players.

Klay and Steph both were playing for a GSW team that was not in playoff contention. Teague got spot minutes his first two seasons, and playing in the weak eastern conference probably helped with that. Kawhi Leonard is possibly a lone exception. I'm not opposed to playing the young guys, but I want them to EARN it, not just get court time because they are young.

As far as Len goes, we ALL knew he was going to be the eventual starter, but the Suns wanted to bring him along slowly because of his age and injury history, I don't begrudge them that.

It's not like in the D'Antoni years, where we were playing 7-8 guys a night and the last few on our bench were total scrubs (Sean Marks, Piatkowski, Pat Burke, etc.). We are playing a 10 man rotation, and all 10 are legit NBA talents. It's hard for a rookie to break into that type of team.

And that's precisely my point. Do you think any Warriors fan now cares that they sucked back then? Do you think any Thunder fan cares that they sucked during Westbrook and Durant's first 2 years there?

No they don't because those youngster getting playing time and developing was more important than being the 8th, 9th or 10th seed in the West.

Kawhi Leonard, Harrison Barnes, Draymond Green, Pero Antic etc are all examples of players who got playing time for good teams as well.

[Revived]

It's not arrogant. The rookies need to BEAT someone out for playing time. If any one of the rookies was playing better in practice or was showing immense ability, you think Hornacek would keep them on the bench? At this point none of our rookies are better than our rotation players, and with the exception of PJ Tucker, Gerald Green and Goran all our guys are 27 or younger. It's not like we are playing 34 year old guys, Like, oh, I dunno LUIS SCOLA, instead of a young player.

Also, a key factor in being a winning and competitive team is that it's going to help us keep our free agents and attract new ones. Yeah, money talks in the NBA, but do you think we'd have any chance of resigning Goran (or signing Bledsoe last offseason) if we were playing the rookies 25 minutes a night and were winning 25 games a season? Orlando is a perfect example of this, look how much they had to overpay to get Channing Frye. But they are playing the rookies and losing a ton of games. That's what you want? People are enamored by this idea of developing rookies because they are scarred by the D'Antoni years. It's really foolish to me, if you want the rookies/sophomores to play, then tell them to PLAY BETTER and unseat the guy in front of them. Just like Len did with Plumlee.

Goodwin has played extremely well when given minutes. I've posted those stats countless amount of times.

Warren is the reigning ACC Player of the Year. A amazing scorer. No I dont think Green and Marcus are both better than him.

Ennis is the closest thing we have on this roster to a "true PG".

Guys like Kawhi Leonard, Klay Thompson, Steph Curry, Jeff Teague etc all got minutes for their team as rookies and sophomores and that's a big part of why they were able to develop.

I wanted Hornacek to start Len over Plumlee since the second half of last season. He finally did it almost a year after and its paid off. I think giving these other guys minutes will pay off in a similar way for both the short term if not the long term.

Goodwin is too one dimensional right now. He still doesn't have a 3pt shot and he is in no way better than Dragic, Bledose, IT or Green RIGHT NOW.

The ACC is not the NBA. Enough said. You can't say "Oh he was a boss in college" and therefore he is better than proven NBA players.

Klay and Steph both were playing for a GSW team that was not in playoff contention. Teague got spot minutes his first two seasons, and playing in the weak eastern conference probably helped with that. Kawhi Leonard is possibly a lone exception. I'm not opposed to playing the young guys, but I want them to EARN it, not just get court time because they are young.

As far as Len goes, we ALL knew he was going to be the eventual starter, but the Suns wanted to bring him along slowly because of his age and injury history, I don't begrudge them that.

It's not like in the D'Antoni years, where we were playing 7-8 guys a night and the last few on our bench were total scrubs (Sean Marks, Piatkowski, Pat Burke, etc.). We are playing a 10 man rotation, and all 10 are legit NBA talents. It's hard for a rookie to break into that type of team.

And that's precisely my point. Do you think any Warriors fan now cares that they sucked back then? Do you think any Thunder fan cares that they sucked during Westbrook and Durant's first 2 years there?

No they don't because those youngster getting playing time and developing was more important than being the 8th, 9th or 10th seed in the West.

Kawhi Leonard, Harrison Barnes, Draymond Green, Pero Antic etc are all examples of players who got playing time for good teams as well.